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You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
MMO Etiquette
nidriks
Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
So I just watched an early impressions video of New World. One of the impressions he gave was of his annoyance at the toxicity of the New World community.
Kill stealing for skins is a huge problem in New World. I played the open beta, before refunding, and was myself alarmed at how many would instantly skin my animal kills as if they were their own right.
The reviewer then went on to say that one person had called a culprit a bottom-feeder in annoyance. He earned himself a ban for 24 hours. The bottom-feeder? Yep, nada.
MMO etiquette was a high priority in my favourite game of old. Everquest. I believe it should be pushed and enforced in Ashes to attain the best community possible.
So, how does Ashes intend to maintain a strong and friendly community? One free of toxicity and neglecting of basic MMO food behaviour.
Or, if you like, should Ashes attempt to enforce a solid community by enforcing MMO etiquette?
In fairness, it has been my impression from following this game since before kickstarter that the community is friendly. However, not everyone that follows Ashes grew up with the rules of games like Everquest. MMOs have changed, but shouldn't basic courtesy be paramount?
Kill stealing for skins is a huge problem in New World. I played the open beta, before refunding, and was myself alarmed at how many would instantly skin my animal kills as if they were their own right.
The reviewer then went on to say that one person had called a culprit a bottom-feeder in annoyance. He earned himself a ban for 24 hours. The bottom-feeder? Yep, nada.
MMO etiquette was a high priority in my favourite game of old. Everquest. I believe it should be pushed and enforced in Ashes to attain the best community possible.
So, how does Ashes intend to maintain a strong and friendly community? One free of toxicity and neglecting of basic MMO food behaviour.
Or, if you like, should Ashes attempt to enforce a solid community by enforcing MMO etiquette?
In fairness, it has been my impression from following this game since before kickstarter that the community is friendly. However, not everyone that follows Ashes grew up with the rules of games like Everquest. MMOs have changed, but shouldn't basic courtesy be paramount?
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Comments
Nothing will really stop people from behaving like this except for fear of consequences. This is why there needs to be freedom to attack other players anywhere in the open world. The reason New World has failed in designing a good game system is because it restricts player freedom through their flagging system, and lets players get away with toxic behavior with no chance of consequences.
My guild is playing new world. by no means is it a good game. It is great to pass the time and get the team organized. I hosted world pvp/roaming last night. We raided a fort, killed a ton of people, talked shit in chat and voip. Good old time.
Complaining about losing skinning, or trees, or nodes to mine....that is all just really silly. This is the dumbed down version of what new world was supposed to be. There is a place for "MMO Etiquette" but new world is not it. AoC will have a certain level of this because of the nature of the game. The age of players is part of it but what a player expects to get out of the game is exactly what they will put into the game. If everyone logs into AoC with the same mind set that the community does it new world....aoc's community is going to be rough around the edges until players realize sitting around town and never communicating is not how it is supposed to be played. Same with being a toxic ass to everyone. I have faith that the AoC community will be both competitive but also have some sort of "code" where we can shit talk, murder each other, but also respect each other enough to not cause too many long term issues on each server.
(Just kidding but how funny would it be if that's all I wrote?)
I see your point. However, I feel I need to add that I did paraphrase.
Of course, I do feel that anyone who actively steals corpses to skin deserves what they are called. Within reason, of course (I understand that toxic behaviour, in excess, in response to toxic behaviour would not help). But sternly making it known that a behaviour is not tolerated would be a better precedent.
In any event, if the whole situation was allowed to be told then punishment should not have been to just one.
In WoW I would bypass animal corpses numerous times unless I was sure no one was about to claim them.
I believe there is no excuse for rude behaviour. Maybe I am just old.
We, as a community, should attempt to change that behaviour. I believe it is possible.
I also don't think PvP is the answer.
I’m old too. I played EQ in ‘99-‘01. Etiquette was critical. That was a game where you often had to camp one spot with a group for hours and if some jerk came in to screw things up you might ruin a whole day for a bunch of people. It would be many minutes between spawns and you’d have to wait many spawns for the rare enemy to appear and then the drop for an item wasn’t guaranteed, and then only one person could claim it. We didn’t have loot tools and stuff, it was honor system. You had to have a social contract that everyone followed and if you didn’t then the game wouldn’t work.
That was backed up by a big group of dedicated customer support people. But I think part of the reason why Verant (later SOE) was able to afford that staff is that it was supplemented with “volunteers” who received no pay, only free subscriptions.
They had to stop doing that though, because I believe a court ruled that once you offer someone anything as compensation to work for you, they are employees for legal purposes and need a minimum wage and other benefits as required by labor laws.
I think that made such large customer service staff groups no longer profitable. I don’t think an MMO can afford the kind of enforcement that EQ could at the beginning. No GMs that can respond to every request in seconds. As much as I wish it was possible.
Some of the misbehavior in AoC should be policed by players though via PvP. So I hope that between that and customer service staff enforcing any really egregious transgressions (harassment, really abusive behavior, cheating) any bad apples will find the game is unwelcoming to them.
I find childlike behaviour less toxic than those that pretend to act mature. They drag the drama on and on, wheras with "toxic" people you either walk away or kill them and move on.
Sane community? Keep a sane community? Who are you or anybody to tell others what to do? Leave people alone.
For me the only reasonable thing is tackling real issues like exesive insulting and real racism. Take a pic of the chat send it to IS. IS can issue a warning or ban straight away if there is a real offense there.
That's all. People label toxic everything that isn't about giving then validation and a feeling of belonging. You cant even argue anymore without someone turning to victimhood and making threats for a ban.
People get killed ingame in a game that has killing in it and they call it harrasment. Weak in mind, seek others set up rules that ruin everybodys fun just because their bubble bursted.
Grow up people. It's not the community that's not sane. It's you that you havent learned to ignore, argue facts or pvp back.
Lmao yea, this doesn't work on most people who steal kills. Sorry, but most won't care what you say to them about it.
Why isn't PvP the answer?
Open world PvP exists as a valid option for dealing with any conflict such as someone messing with a grinding spot. In fact, open world PvP is encouraged as a way to contest resources. If enough people kill those for violating an unwritten rule of stealing kills, then it provides a disincentive for those that engage in that behavior. Seems fair to me.
Also, etiquette is overrated, especially in a game like AoC where people can make your life miserable if you're a lil bitch.
You actually have that backwards. Do you realize that?
'Manners are overrated' Says the piggy at the trough, eh?
1. I mean that if the whole story is know, i.e. that the insult has been chucked because someone is shadowing and stealing his kills, then why is just the aggravated side banned?
2. PvP doesn't solely work as an option because it would not be an option for me. I plan to play Ashes with the bare necessities of combat, and I hope that is an option for those that want to do similar.
It was an option available some years back in Vanguard.
I will however hopefully have a guild behind me, so the option should exist to gather the help to deal with those who disrupt the community.
However, if the troublemaker has not killed anyone, just interfered with a player's progress then it will be the reacter who risks gaining corruption.
I personally believe a community functions better when there are unwritten rules. Valour, honour, rules of combat. Whatever you might call it. A player who kills needlessly can be dealt with by PvP. A troublemaker needs to be taught. A community can be educated.
Communities have suffered in MMOs for years partly because those rules are not treasured.
Some reactions have made me wonder about this community.
As Mack (worthabuy), who made the video I referred to, said, there are a lot of youngsters who have not grown up with the etiquette of games like EQ. NW is certainly a sign of that.
I hope the community can push for the simple rules that benefit the game.
If someone is 'acting mature', how do you know if its genuine or 'pretend'? I'm doubting you...
'Leave people alone.'
Because that is always a recipe for success! You don't have children, do you?
"Weak in mind, seek others set up rules that ruin everybodys fun.."
Is this a Hitler quote? Or a novel quote about some coward who dies in a horrible comeuppance?
Ever heard of a 'law'? They are generally agreed upon by a community. They exist in the "Real World", their purpose is to prevent people from doing bad/evil/prohibited things. People must be governed, they don't have the ability to self-regulate. How do I know? History.
You might be able to trust a person. 'People'? Nope.
Well, I could solve one problem. I'd happily GM in my own time if I had that time. If I could give up work I certainly would. 😁
Players should have the freedom to choose to be an asshole, but other players should also have the freedom to kill them for being one. Maybe by the time players have an interaction with you, they will be less likely to do something that is usually frowned upon because they've been killed for it repeatedly in the past.
Then yes, your guild should be the answer. This is supposed to be the solution to a lot of conflicts in the open world.
Most times, combat in the open world won't be completely fair or balanced by its nature, so you need help from guildmates to put the balance in your favor or at least to give you a decent chance of winning.
EQ was ages ago. The internet was a different place back then. Players have evolved past the excitement of just getting to play with others in an MMO. Etiquette still exists, but there are a lot of people who are desensitized and aren't ashamed to not follow it in an online game. Either way, it's not the end of the world if someone slights you in a online game that gives you the freedom to do something about it.
The OP complained about people taking his skin in NW. Well that's what happens when you listen to weak minded people and you create yet another mmo in which you cant kill another player in the open world without their consent for PvP.
How the f did you get Hitler involved in there?
You are more of a dictator than me, demanding people to "behave themselves" in a video game.
If anybody hasnt used serious offensive language there is NOTHING that's going to force people to follow an "etiquette". Which "rEaL woRL" do you live in?
Telling me about laws...
You mean the laws that change on the fly, eg. an employer cant dismiss an employee for medical related reasons, yet in 2021 it was ok to do so?
Wakanda laws do you want in a video game?
If the programming code has been designed to allow an action IT'S legal.
If there is no code for, let's say a cleric/bard taking a selfie by a lv3 node, guess what? Taking selfies is illegal in AoC.
How about you let the developers say what actions merrit ban and you can get your notion of etiquette and shvt.
Is that mature enough for ya?
To be fair, I thought it obvious that I asked a general question about etiquette, or rules, in MMOs. I used the stealing of skinning corpses as an example because that is the example I saw in the video I watched.
I just thought perhaps Ashes might exhibit a better community than in many games of more recent years. Being an ass, a la Barrens of WoW, is one thing, but, as someone posted above, WoW did have rules back in the day. That was replicated in the classic servers to some extent.
I can see, from your words, that times have definitely changed. I guess the MMO world has just changed.
Move on. Accept. I guess it's all an old fella can do.
I am not talking about trying to claim the world. I'm just talking about sensible and unwritten rules to make the game more fun for everyone.
I guess what I am talking about, and if I was to start this thread now, after seeing answers, I would rephrase it, is anti-social behaviour.
Anti-social behaviour seems to be the norm in games these days. The example I used, stealing skins, is just an example. MMO etiquette is the term used to cover the unwritten rules that stop people being a jerk.
If you see someone killing wolves why do you have to run in, whilst they're busy with the adds, and skin the animal they killed? People talk about the right to do things in a game. Why is there a right to do that? If it was on the other foot then that person would ask why someone just stole their effort?
There will be people that take the rules to an extreme. It seems you met them. Many come from the EQ days where camping rules existed. I learnt MMOs with those rules and I know they don't cover a game like Ashes. Time does move on and the basic rules to keep everyone happy should change to fit the scenario. That is true and it's shame some are very rigid. I just want a scene where I am not surrounded by young people uninterested in the enjoyment of others. It's not all, I know that, but there is less regard for others in the 2020s.
I just believe those unwritten rules are a benefit to a community.
Don't kill-steal. Don't ditch groups mid-boss. Don't AFK indefinitely. Don't ninja. Don't repeat the same question 15 times in capitals in global chat. Don't spam guild invites. Etc etc. Some have faded in to obscurity, like don't train people.
Don't they help, or am I just an old fart? I am sure I'm not the only one who feels like this.
'Wakanda laws', selfies? Don't bring COVID into this. /e roll eyes
Drugs are bad, kids.
Stomping your feet and saying "Don't tell me what to do!" is about 4 year old mentality. And I feel that is the mental standard of your average millennial. Entitlement up the wazoo.
Hitler was having fun murdering millions, mean people 'ruined his fun'.
My point is that people can't be trusted to do the honorable or right thing, especially on the internet! They lose all inhibitions (if they had any) and treat others in a way that would put them in a hospital if they did it in person.
That's where a good /mute feature comes in handy.
I assume “Wakanda” was an auto-correct from a misspelling of “what”. George has done that in multiple posts. I’m pretty sure he’s not writing that intentionally.
Actually
You can skin my kill, if you're flagged... Risk v reward... Touch my shit and I blast you...