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What do you like about open-world PvP?

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Comments

  • BladenBladen Member, Alpha Two
    The constant thought of a looming threat that could come out at any moment is such a great feeling to have and encounter. It makes the world feel more alive instead of the same old boring grind. Like if i go into this forest is someone waiting to get me? It also creates some of the most memorable experiences. I'm not going to remember killing some random mob but i will remember a player popping out and fighting me over a resource or something similar.

    And let's be honest if you don't want random player interactions why are you playing an mmo?
  • CawwCaww Member, Alpha Two
    nothing... but I'll suffer it for the large scale siege action which should be outstanding
  • Saint55Saint55 Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    As a pvp focused player my favorite experiances in games happen in the open world.
    1) Economic warfare: being able to attack my enemies source of income or supply lines. Small groups using hit and run tactics to influence wars (BLOPS fleets were super fun in Eve).

    2) Claiming resources: back in new world it was just a race to whoever got to a resource first which was super fucking lame(especially since half the times its bots). Imagine having fought to siege and capture territory and all of its resources get scooped up by bots and randoms who got there a second faster.

    3) Pvp progression(full or part loot games): Roaming/Camping/WhaleHunting are some fun experiances ive had with the bois but with loot drop it also allowed for a natural way for pvp players to make money through pvp. It really sucks as a pvp player when monetary progression is locked behind grinding.

    4) Escalation(This was big in Eve): When out in the world and you get in a fight with another bandit group and they have more people than you. You then ping in guild discord that theres fights to be had and, when seeing you get more people, so do they. Many times ive experiances small gang roams turn into big blood baths and they have been some of the most fun ive had in an MMO.
  • velishvelish Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    open world pvp blows
  • Pros:
    -Unpredictability can be fun, as many people mentioned
    -I've had a great deal of memorable experiences from wPvP
    -Creates an incentive to group with other players
    -Allows for bonding experiences with other players
    -When you win it feels good

    Cons:
    -Unpredictability can be annoying. Sometimes I'm not in the mood, and I just want to log in for a lowkey farming session/grind out some boars.
    -Some of those memorable experiences have been tilting
    -Sometimes you can't find groups of other people, and find yourselves being ganked by 5v1 people
    -In general wPvP is less about skill, and more about hitting first and getting the other guy in a cc chain (i.e. play a rogue); or, just zerging
  • I hate open world PvP. You might get a 1v1 but more likely you’re outnumbered most the time. I hope the focus is more on instanced PvP.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    Neiuso wrote: »
    I like the unpredictability of it. Having to stay on my toes while I'm grinding mobs or farming resources keeps things interesting to me, and it provides for another form of interaction with players.

    I also enjoy being able to fight over resources that I may want that someone else currently has - whether those resources are actual items or mats, or a valued grind spot. Having the choice to do so, whether I'm the aggressor or defender, feels better to me than it all being free to everyone in a way.

    On top of those reasons, the convenience of open world PvP helps too. Knowing that I can go to some area in the open world known to be a gank fest rather than looking for arranged PvP elsewhere can be a nice change of pace.

    This pretty much.

    It also makes the world feel more alive due to added unpredictability of players aswell as well as combat unpredictability since you cant read players as easily as mobs. open world Pvp opens much more enjoyable experience imo than staged pvp since you can hunt/stalk your pray and also be hunted urself. Got to keep alert at most times :)

    you use to get uinpredicability in PVE pre WoW area with roaming mobs higher lvl or stronger mobs wandering around and so on but not anymore its all become streamlined now i cant play PvE only games cause they feel dead and boring to me cxompared to old games.

    Tbh the unfair element is missing in games these days. life isnt fair so you adapt games these days specificly PvE games try and make everything fair so no one realy adapts anymore they just do thje same thing over and over again like a robot till the task is done.
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  • HumblePuffinHumblePuffin Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Asthma wrote: »
    I hate open world PvP. You might get a 1v1 but more likely you’re outnumbered most the time. I hope the focus is more on instanced PvP.

    Not to argue your general opinion, but instanced PvP will be the least common form of PvP, e.g.: arenas may only be available in military nodes.

    While open world, ganking style PvP is also meant to not be the most common type of PvP, nodes sieges and caravans will all be in the open world.

    Wiki resource on the specific topic if you don’t know much about their PvP systems. Apologies if you do know this stuff and you’re just hoping out loud. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP
  • Asthma wrote: »
    I hate open world PvP. You might get a 1v1 but more likely you’re outnumbered most the time. I hope the focus is more on instanced PvP.

    Not to argue your general opinion, but instanced PvP will be the least common form of PvP, e.g.: arenas may only be available in military nodes.

    While open world, ganking style PvP is also meant to not be the most common type of PvP, nodes sieges and caravans will all be in the open world.

    Wiki resource on the specific topic if you don’t know much about their PvP systems. Apologies if you do know this stuff and you’re just hoping out loud. https://ashesofcreation.wiki/PvP

    Hate to be pessimistic but there hasn’t been an mmo with successful open world PvP. Which is the reason I’m hesitant to be excited for it. As long as Arenas isn’t an afterthought, I think as a whole it can be successful.

    I just want to play a competitive PvP mmo without the excessive grind. (ie. wow arenas) small scale PvP that can showcase individual skill is the most popular model is gaming imho.
  • ElwendryllElwendryll Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    What I like about open world pvp :
    • It introduces chaos in an otherwise pretty deterministic environment.
    • It creates social interactions and role play opportunities.
    • It makes you feel unsafe at all time. Which makes everything you do more rewarding, because there was a risk.
    • It makes the game more difficult and challenging
    • It opens up an entire play-style.
    • You can "claim" a farming spot by figthing for it.

    This might be a bad example because this game hasn't been successful, but I played Crowfall for a while, it's basically full inventory loot when you die (and durability loss on gear with no repair options). PvE in this game is not really a thing, every "PvE" objective is something you're supposed to fight over. And yet, there were people who despised PvP who played it, for some obscure reason. And gathering was a lot of fun, when you hear a noise in the distance you go full alert mode, when you hear chopping noises and see a tree falling in the distance, the adrenaline starts pumping, should you run away? should you get closer and try to kill them for their loot?

    Also open world pvp is very different from structured arena PvP. You can ambush people, you can play with terrain, from a distance, etc... You can attack someone who's killing a boss, or have to defend yourself while trying to kill a boss. It's a lot of different situations, it encourages you to play with friends, because in almost all situations you can win any encounter just by having enough numbers.

    Playing solo in an open world pvp setting is very challenging because people tend to stay in groups (PvP players escorting gatherers or whatever for instance), but it's very rewarding when it works out, and very satisfying.

    Of course it's not for everyone because dying is frustrating, but it is very exciting.
  • Bladen wrote: »
    The constant thought of a looming threat that could come out at any moment is such a great feeling to have and encounter. It makes the world feel more alive instead of the same old boring grind. Like if i go into this forest is someone waiting to get me? It also creates some of the most memorable experiences. I'm not going to remember killing some random mob but i will remember a player popping out and fighting me over a resource or something similar.

    And let's be honest if you don't want random player interactions why are you playing an mmo?

    This could also be achieved in PvE, but almost all MMOs, at least the recent ones, have been so theme-parky and soft that, unless you're crossing a zone way too high level for your character, this feeling of risk is lost (too easy to avoid danger or to run away from it). That's one thing EverQuest did well, roaming higher level mobs in zones: sand giants in the Oasis, that guard in the Common Lands aggro'ing every careless lowbie dark elfs, the dratted minotaur hero in the gnome low level zone, brownies hidden in the bushes, ... I have more memorable moments from random mobs aggro'ing than from any player who attacked me on the open. A question of perspective I suppose.

    The big difference between mobs and players is how they aggro. Player aggro is weird compared to mobs. They have very large aggro range, which doesn't always trigger, and it doesn't reset when you kill them, quite the opposite, it tends to rise up when you kill them.
    Be bold. Be brave. Roll a Tulnar !
  • HumblePuffinHumblePuffin Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    Asthma wrote: »
    Hate to be pessimistic but there hasn’t been an mmo with successful open world PvP. Which is the reason I’m hesitant to be excited for it. As long as Arenas isn’t an afterthought, I think as a whole it can be successful. .

    I assume you mean mmorpg and competitive owpvp which I would also argue against, but either way there have definitely been mmos with successful open world pvp. Aion, lineage, EQ, Ultima, BDO, a billion Korean mmos, archeage, RuneScape even, the original pass of WoW vanilla-WotLK(arguably the best years of that games life) all had rather enjoyable owpvp.

    In the context of AoC, carvans and node sieges both sound like they will be a blast and on a reasonably level playing field when compared against their owpvp in the “hunting grounds”.

    I too hope that the arenas present in military nodes will scratch that itch of “as level playing field as you can get for an mmorpg”. Definitely don’t expect this game to be getting an esport for its PvP. You’ll be disappointed.
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    Percimes wrote: »
    Bladen wrote: »
    The constant thought of a looming threat that could come out at any moment is such a great feeling to have and encounter. It makes the world feel more alive instead of the same old boring grind. Like if i go into this forest is someone waiting to get me? It also creates some of the most memorable experiences. I'm not going to remember killing some random mob but i will remember a player popping out and fighting me over a resource or something similar.

    And let's be honest if you don't want random player interactions why are you playing an mmo?

    This could also be achieved in PvE, but almost all MMOs, at least the recent ones, have been so theme-parky and soft that, unless you're crossing a zone way too high level for your character, this feeling of risk is lost (too easy to avoid danger or to run away from it). That's one thing EverQuest did well, roaming higher level mobs in zones: sand giants in the Oasis, that guard in the Common Lands aggro'ing every careless lowbie dark elfs, the dratted minotaur hero in the gnome low level zone, brownies hidden in the bushes, ... I have more memorable moments from random mobs aggro'ing than from any player who attacked me on the open. A question of perspective I suppose.

    The big difference between mobs and players is how they aggro. Player aggro is weird compared to mobs. They have very large aggro range, which doesn't always trigger, and it doesn't reset when you kill them, quite the opposite, it tends to rise up when you kill them.

    One of my memorable experience from everquest was being a human necro and being wacked by the wandering druid on South Qeynos when i went to the bank :P dam those druid and rangers.

    Another was getting wacked by the human necro walking around the qeynos hills when i was playing my human ranger :D

    just think of Pkers as smart bandits with further agro :P
  • VeeshanVeeshan Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    Asthma wrote: »
    Hate to be pessimistic but there hasn’t been an mmo with successful open world PvP. Which is the reason I’m hesitant to be excited for it. As long as Arenas isn’t an afterthought, I think as a whole it can be successful. .

    I assume you mean mmorpg and competitive owpvp which I would also argue against, but either there have definitely been mmos with successful open world pvp. Aion, lineage, EQ, Ultima, BDO, a billion Korean mmos, archeage, RuneScape even, the original pass of WoW vanilla-WotLK(arguably the best years of that games life) had rather enjoyable owpvp.

    In the context of AoC, carvans and node sieges both sound like they will be a blast and on a reasonably level playing field when compared against their owpvp in the “hunting grounds”.

    I too hope that the arenas present in military nodes will scratch that itch of “as level playing field as you can get for an mmorpg”. Definitely don’t expect this game to be getting an esport for its PvP. You’ll be disappointed.

    I would even say Darkfall was rather successful when it came out i think it downfall was alot more to do with super slow patch/decelopment in patches was like 1 patch every 8 months :P
  • HeartbeatHeartbeat Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    CROW3 wrote: »
    - the world is more dangerous
    - Grouping has more value
    - You can actually fight for resources
    - PvP as content is dynamic and player driven instead of scripted and repetitive
    - and c’mon pushing someone off a mountain never gets boring 🤪

    I'm gonna go with everything you said as well and add that some of the most fun i've had in PvP came from the random fights that popped up here and there and evolved into entire OW guild wars when I played BDO.
  • VaknarVaknar Member, Staff
    What personally excited me about open-world PvP are the endless possibilities of interactions and the stories that come from them :) Some of my most memorable experiences come from PvP (while many come from raiding!) Combining the two sounds neat!

    I get that there are some aspects of it that aren't as awesome to some players.

    Do any of you have any interesting open-world PvP stories from other games you'd like to share?
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  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    Even in table-top RPGs, I typically attempt to bypass combat with Charisma skills and Stealth.

    The first game I worked on prefessionally was MechWarrior II: NetMech.
    Most of the guys in QA would choose the biggest, most powerful and durable Mechs, so they could pummel each other. I typically chose the smallest, fastest Mechs so that I could skate past the combat and capture the objectives.

    Basically the same for Neverwinter Online.
    There I would focus on zipping over to capture as many flag pylons as possible. Capturing a pylon was at least 2x points than a kill, so...I would just let people kill me if they wanted to and the run to capture the next pylon. Which would, more often than not, place me at the top of the leaderboards for captures...and often help my team win.
    There was another form of PvP where we had to gather resources and build defenses - make sure certain key areas weren't destroyed by NPCs/mobs. I enjoyed focusing on those objectives way more than direct PvP combat.

    So...the more objectives available in Ashes Sieges, the better.
    But, I'm also looking forward to fiddling with augments.
    In the Alpha One Sieges, I played a Cleric since we didn't have a Rogue or Ranger.
    I kept hoping I could have a proc on Hallowed Ground that could render me Invisible. Possible even render Invisible anyone who enters Hallowed Ground.
    I really enjoyed casting Hallowed Ground near a breached gate and then working with two other Clerics to cycle through casts so that Hallowed Ground was always active in that spot, even while we waited for our individual cooldowns to end.

    The UE5 Character Creator has me even more eager to see what kind of mercenary entourage I can create to guard my Freehold and Caravans. And I'm also eager to see how well I'm able to craft/construct Carvans with consistently adequate defenses against raids.

    In most MMORPGs, the gameworld is static.
    Winning or losing PvP is in no way memorable to me - I don't expect anything to change much.
    Fippy Darkpaw will still be doing the same thing tomorrow that he was 20 years ago.
    Ashes PvP is inherently meorable for the most part because who owns a Castle when will impact everyone.
    We will certainly remember when a City or Metro falls - and we will be sure to talk about it as we adjust to those significant changes in the emergent gameplay.
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    The biggest thing about owpvp for me is the player interactions and relationships that build from that interaction.
    I've made years-long friendships, after pvping the same people for a month. I've made server-spanning rivalries that were built on mutual respect that came from daily pvp battles. I've created guilds purely from recruiting people through pvp fights, and those guilds could usually stand up against higher numbers of players because everyone in my guild became friends with each other and had much better coordination because of that.

    And I've been on the receiving end of that attitude, where I'd fight against 3-4 people from one guild even though I knew I'd lose, but, exactly because I fought back, I got invited to their guild and was immediately respected for my efforts.

    I've spent hours talking with enemy guildies sitting in town, because despite the war between our guilds we respected each other and treated each other as equals. Of course there'd be some assholes who would always spam some random shit in chat and flame their enemies, but more often than not they'd get kicked from their guild because they were to toxic towards everyone. The community itself was built on "be the best you can be and respect your enemy for doing the same".

    All of this was built on a near-requirement to pvp in Lineage 2. You wanna make you character stronger? You gotta pvp the people doing the same thing. You wanna farm some important item? Pvp the dude who's already farming it to "earn" your right to replace him. And then defend that place from others who wanna earn that right too. You die against the same dude a few times? Talk to other people in the same location and propose killing him together and then splitting the better farm among yourselves. You're the dude who got killed by several people? Do the same thing they did or find a guild that would help you do that.

    I really hope Ashes manages to capture the same community interactions and philosophy as L2 did. I sure as hell will give my best to promote them.
  • superhero6785superhero6785 Member, Alpha Two
    edited April 2022
    One of my best memories was trying to finish a quest in Aion when I kept getting ganked by 3 players. I messaged in my guild chat for help and my guild leader showed up 5 minutes later (much higher level) like superman flying in to save me. He took on all 3 by himself and stood there like a giant knight in shining armor. Then he said "You like my new sword? I call it my boom stick. Well, take care!" Then flew off and I finished my quest. I'm sure he felt great and loved taking 15 minutes out of his day to go beat up some bullies. It's the awesome social interaction that open world PvP creates that makes it so worth the hassle.
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