Would you consider a 1 year wipe cycle?

I think this would be good for the game's longevity as they seem committed to allowing players to take stuff from each other. It allows for a power reset that prevents long established groups from dominating and continuing to grow forever.

Every time a group defeats another group the winner gets bigger. Eventually there will only be a few on one large group/s that control huge chunks of the map and wipe out every seed that is a fresh group due to the massive disparity in power. There isn't always a bigger fish and the longer and longer it goes on the fewer and fewer tadpoles pop up. The massive whale just crushes them as soon as they pop up and without even really knowing they are there at all.

This is very common in my experience in rust where clan members go around at day 5-7 foundation wiping wood starter 2x1s with c4 due to just having a ridiculous amount of resources at their disposal. It's not a planned raid or anything c4 just becomes part of the load out and everything that isn't part of the clan evaporates. Or much rarer but still happens, walling off entire monuments and setting auto turrets all over the beach spawn locations. Effectively making the server unplayable. I can see this happening very easily with just a small group from t6s obliterating t3s as they start to gain traction. Assuming they don't install puppet governments.

It allows for groups that have been fractured to take a break, reset, and come back. Rust, Tarkov, and most minecraft pvp servers operate in a similar way with different time tables based on how long progression takes. It takes about 3 hours to get most of everything in Rust but wipes every week. It takes a few weeks/months to get most of everything in Tarkov and wipes every 6 months or so. Minecraft servers usually wipe based on map size and population and the state of 0,0.

However it's an mmo and continuity is very important. If you already have advancement in systems that don't have power implications like dancing, emotes, music, skins for mounts, pets, gear, etc. Those would be continuous through each wipe so you have something to work towards that you know you will have forever. It also removes the mentality of "I just died and lost all my stuff so i'm just going to quit forever" As you know the random stuff you get you won't have forever anyway, its less painful and less of a quit moment.

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TheDarkSorcerer

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

Vaknar

"Part of the whole experience with nodes is that there is no real end-game, in that the world is constantly shifting every day. Month one is going to be really different from month two, and that's for the level 50s and level 1s. – Jeffrey Bard"

"We want the game to be a living game, which means that all content should be relevant at all times. I’d say that we try to make as little distinction between the leveling-up experience and the end-game experience as possible. The whole journey is important to us, in order to maximize the fun people have during different stages of the game. – Sarah Flanagan"

I wanted to share these quotes from this page of the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/End_game

The world of Verra is ever-changing and evolving. The way players and events interact with the world should abolish the need to reset servers to have fun!

Gandalfthegrape

CROW3 wrote: »

No. The PoE season wipe isn’t a great model for a persistent mmo.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All

Gandalfthegrape

tautau wrote: »

Hard NO.

I love character progression and making my toons into something. Wipes like this would ruin things for me.

Also, the winners should not be punished for winning.

But you, OP, are totally free to delete and recreate your character every year.

You love character progression but you don't want the game to be based around character progression? I don't understand.

They aren't punished for winning, they get non power rewards that carry over every wipe.

That's a pretty dumb strawman.

Gandalfthegrape

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

These games are clearly failing and everyone hates them.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

Hinotori

Gandalfthegrape wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

These games are clearly failing and everyone hates them.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

Ashes isn't a survival game

Nova_terra

Gandalfthegrape wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

These games are clearly failing and everyone hates them.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

You are pulling together games that are far from what AoC is trying to be? You are also mad that people aren't agreeing with your opinion? Progression takes many forms, and having to go through the same progression multiple times for wipes defeats the purpose of even attempting to get anything until it "resets" if you come in late. Games that actively wipe can be extremely popular, but this is not a game or even a Genre where that is received well and for good reason. A large part of the demographic is against the idea of losing their progress in X time. The Persistent world is what draws them in and keeps them playing.

Depraved

Gandalfthegrape wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

These games are clearly failing and everyone hates them.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

damn, poe keeps losing players

those games are designed like that. maybe that's why it works?
you cant just make a game and decide last minute to have wipes every year

insomnia

Gandalfthegrape wrote: »

I think this would be good for the game's longevity as they seem committed to allowing players to take stuff from each other. It allows for a power reset that prevents long established groups from dominating and continuing to grow forever.

Every time a group defeats another group the winner gets bigger. Eventually there will only be a few on one large group/s that control huge chunks of the map and wipe out every seed that is a fresh group due to the massive disparity in power. There isn't always a bigger fish and the longer and longer it goes on the fewer and fewer tadpoles pop up. The massive whale just crushes them as soon as they pop up and without even really knowing they are there at all.

This is very common in my experience in rust where clan members go around at day 5-7 foundation wiping wood starter 2x1s with c4 due to just having a ridiculous amount of resources at their disposal. It's not a planned raid or anything c4 just becomes part of the load out and everything that isn't part of the clan evaporates. Or much rarer but still happens, walling off entire monuments and setting auto turrets all over the beach spawn locations. Effectively making the server unplayable. I can see this happening very easily with just a small group from t6s obliterating t3s as they start to gain traction. Assuming they don't install puppet governments.

It allows for groups that have been fractured to take a break, reset, and come back. Rust, Tarkov, and most minecraft pvp servers operate in a similar way with different time tables based on how long progression takes. It takes about 3 hours to get most of everything in Rust but wipes every week. It takes a few weeks/months to get most of everything in Tarkov and wipes every 6 months or so. Minecraft servers usually wipe based on map size and population and the state of 0,0.

However it's an mmo and continuity is very important. If you already have advancement in systems that don't have power implications like dancing, emotes, music, skins for mounts, pets, gear, etc. Those would be continuous through each wipe so you have something to work towards that you know you will have forever. It also removes the mentality of "I just died and lost all my stuff so i'm just going to quit forever" As you know the random stuff you get you won't have forever anyway, its less painful and less of a quit moment.

No. Most of us have a life. We got a work and/or school. Some do sports, have friends, family etc. Need to do stuff at home. It isn't a mmo where you reach max level fast

koltovince

Closest thing I can see to a hard reset for AOC will be to reset the nodes or for a world wide event to affect all the nodes that will drastically reset the board and make player activity increase while setting all the players who are at max level back on the same playing field.

Of course resetting the node may affect player housing, but this is just theory crafting. This isn't an extraction shooter, its an MMO. Meaning by the time content starts to get stale and we are bored of the same guilds ruling the land, new content should come out to satisfy us. If not, quit, go play something else, and come back in 6 months to a whole new game. Thats the beauty of an MMO.

WHIT3ROS3

Seeing a server grow and change over time will be cool and frequent wipes would take away from that. I'd really like it if when the game launches the wiki expands to have a player-contributed section detailing the history of different servers.

WeGbored

I'd be fine with it if the game was built around it from the beginning.

Not a knee-jerk reaction 1 year after launch to try and put out the flames.

Gandalfthegrape

WHIT3ROS3 wrote: »

Seeing a server grow and change over time will be cool and frequent wipes would take away from that. I'd really like it if when the game launches the wiki expands to have a player-contributed section detailing the history of different servers.

Except it doesn't

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

Ya having a library with an auto generated similrilion style story would be awesome. Would be cool if each major achievement the player made gave that player 2 seconds of cinematic where when they clicked play it would kinda tell the player's story of their adventures in the world.

koltovince wrote: »

Closest thing I can see to a hard reset for AOC will be to reset the nodes or for a world wide event to affect all the nodes that will drastically reset the board and make player activity increase while setting all the players who are at max level back on the same playing field.

Of course resetting the node may affect player housing, but this is just theory crafting. This isn't an extraction shooter, its an MMO. Meaning by the time content starts to get stale and we are bored of the same guilds ruling the land, new content should come out to satisfy us. If not, quit, go play something else, and come back in 6 months to a whole new game. Thats the beauty of an MMO.

Ya that would do something really similar, and that's a really good alternative solution. It should also be that you are forced to join a different node than the one you were a part of previously.

That has nothing to do with anything, the same mechanics have the same results. Also Rust isn't an extraction shooter, neither is minecraft. The ability to take other people's stuff is clearly the comparison I was making to tarkov, and is the most contentious part of ashes. Ashes would even go farther as you can't raid people's hideouts.

Telling people to quit the game if they don't like it, instead of fixing the problems, is how every game dies. Short of the company not making enough money to justify keeping the servers up.

HighSpeedHotdog wrote: »

Gandalfthegrape wrote: »

TheDarkSorcerer wrote: »

Why? This will be a game you invest energy and time into. Wiping a game or giving it a reset after a year will hurt income for Intrepid.

You wouldn't be able to advertise for the game at all... "Hey guys, join the game now, but in 15 days your characters progress will be deleted as we're nearing our 1 year mark"... That's millions of potential dollars in income from new subscribers down the drain...

These games are clearly failing and everyone hates them.

https://steamcharts.com/app/252490#All
https://steamcharts.com/app/238960#All
https://activeplayer.io/minecraft/

Ashes isn't a survival game

On a fundamental level it is, it's the survival of your civilization and social network. Instead of surviving against players in your base, who want to destroy your base and take your stuff, you're surviving against players in a node, that want to destroy your node and take your stuff. Ashes is more like Rust than it is like final fantasy or wow. You can't just go topple stormwind if your rep with orgrimmar is high enough. And then org goes to some destroyed state when you need to rebuild it. Whereas that is the fundamental design of Ashes. It's an ever changing world based on social groups and player behavior. That's what Rust is. Wow's base world hasn't changed in like 10 years since cata, it doesn't allow players to shape it in anyway. Shifting sands was probably the last major time they tried anything like that.

The mechanics are incredibly similar, from questing systems, crafting systems, raids/monuments, naval combat, trade between groups, moving resources in a heli vs moving them in a caravan, killing players in certain areas makes you kos for safe zone guards vs corruption, event/heli, market/vending machine and scrap, you collect resources and upgrade your base/node, you pick a server and your character is on that server with its built in progression etc. The only thing that's really different in a fundamental way is the building system and that isn't that different as you essentially have that mechanic built into other systems in a more controlled and determined way. Instead of your lead or builder determining how the base develops your mayor does it.

If anything Ashes will be more of a survival game than Rust is due to higher mob density and the increased likelihood that they will kill you. And also people will use bows more in Ashes than they do in Rust. Prim is dead after like 2 hours of playing rust anyway so thinking it's this game where you chase boars around to get food or you will die is just based on ignorance. You might kill 1 boar 1 time if your spawn is awful to get a starter furnace but after that all you are doing is recycling and fueling a refinery. No one drinks water for the bar they drink water to get rid of rads at launch, people don't eat food for the bar, they have food to spam after they med to get more health faster. If people are low on either they just f1 kill. The definitions of genres don't really mean anything anymore, every game has aspects of many many different genres so saying this is an mmo and this is a survival game this is a fps is just so people get a rough idea of what the game is not what it is in it's entirety. Is wow and mmo? Sure for some people. Other people just stay as a neutral panda and farm herbs in the starter zone all they way to level cap. So for them it's a gathering simulator. Other people sit in the goldshire inn on moonguard erping with people so for them it's a p*rn game. Other people just ride in circles in dalran all day on their motorcycle for literally hours, so for them it's a single player driving simulator. Is it really an mmorpg if you've never rollplayed? Probably more than 50% of people who have played mmorpgs have never rollplayed. Iv done more rollplay in csgo than in wow. Does that make csgo an fpsrpg?

Gandalfthegrape

Vaknar wrote: »

"Part of the whole experience with nodes is that there is no real end-game, in that the world is constantly shifting every day. Month one is going to be really different from month two, and that's for the level 50s and level 1s. – Jeffrey Bard"

"We want the game to be a living game, which means that all content should be relevant at all times. I’d say that we try to make as little distinction between the leveling-up experience and the end-game experience as possible. The whole journey is important to us, in order to maximize the fun people have during different stages of the game. – Sarah Flanagan"

I wanted to share these quotes from this page of the wiki: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/End_game

The world of Verra is ever-changing and evolving. The way players and events interact with the world should abolish the need to reset servers to have fun!

I'm sorry but design and how the game ends up working aren't the same thing. This isn't Arda where a Maiar's words determine reality. If you look at other games that have similar mechanics and they inevitably lead to player behavior in one direction it's incredibly likely that if another game has those same mechanics the path the game will take will likely be in the same direction. If another game/s have already created mechanics that solve those problems, it makes sense to implement those mechanics before the game launches so the player base isn't shocked by a sudden change in design. That's why there are alphas and betas. That's why they just changed the world size and node count. They tested the game and the original design didn't work so they changed it. They didn't wait till after the game launched to fix it.

SirChancelot

I think it would be better to start one or two new servers a year than to have a server reset event

Ph0bos

I dont like the idea of yearly wipes, or any wipes at all for the matter. I think there is something nice in building your character and your guild for the future of the MMO.

unknownsystemerror

You had your game that did that. It was called Crowfall. Kickstarter funded. Went to completion. Came out. And not even their backers cared enough to play it. The wipe and reset mindset that some like to preach, similar to the "fresh start servers always!" is a failed business model. Crowfail got sold to a backer in under a year for what they could get, and then that backer (another purported game dev with deep pockets) just closed it months later. New World just tried it and killed their base yet again. Giving everyone fresh start servers fixed none of their underlying issues, and just caused more people to quit once the lemmings all ran to fresh start, killing the previous servers in the process. No one wants to regrind chopping 10k trees just because Timmy can't take a region from the big bois.

Diamaht

No, no wipe cycles. New servers from time to time maybe. For example Im having fun starting fresh on the new NA Data Center on FFXIV. But that game is ten years old

xMrWoolf

this would be a terrible game design for what AoC is trying to accomplish. most players would quit the game before the wipe and possibly never come back. AoC has content for everyone no one guild will seriously maintain that much power over a server its unlikely for one group. even an alliance caps out at 1,200 players thats around 12% of the server and getting all 1200 players online at one time will be near impossible. so if a group is dominating a server the rest of the server just needs to work together. the only guilds that benefit from taxes are castle owners. and taxes are carried by NPC caravans. so if you work with the server you can stop all taxes from getting to the *dominating* clan this deletes some of the taxes and gives your group some of the income. you dont need to own the castle to win.

novercalis

I love the concept of wipes / fresh start BUT I do not think that concept can work with AoC.

2) majority of players will absolute hate wipes. Almost every player will want to cling to their LITTLE PIXELS like Republicans clinging to their guns. Aint no way they are gonna be cool with wipes. Even in P99 - as much as they would benefit from wiping the server - ppl are raging just at the sheer notion of it. Whereas official EQ - decided to create TLP servers and after X amount of years and/or population threshold, merges old ones and even those players got salty n rage quit because of their pixels disappeared

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