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Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two testing is currently taking place five days each week. More information about Phase II and Phase III testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Best Of
How to make crafters MVPs and stop the endgame rush mentality
Issues
1. There are currently only incentives to rush to the max level. No reason to engage with any other systems in the game before it, especially pvp since levels matter a lot.
2. At launch, if the trend continues, there will also be no reason to craft any gear other than max-level gear. Crafting will be useless for 50 levels.
3. The power gap between casual players and tryhards will be huge, as leveling is long and max-level gear will severely outperform lower-level gear.
This game already has everything set up to create a very interesting professions system that promotes economic gameplay as a key role, while discouraging the endgame rush mentality. All it needs to do now is to choose to do so.
I say this confidently as I saw this achieved recently in an MMORPG called Ravendawn. In the game, crafters were the only ones providing completed items to players. Mobs and quests/events did not drop gear, but materials to craft that gear. The catch here is, as it happens in ashes, the tier of gear crafted was way behind the sweaty players' speed pacing. The ones playing 16-20h a day rushing to max level were using the same tier gear as the casual player grinding for 2~4h, even though they had like 15~20 levels of difference. I took my time exploring the game, finding mysteries, going to new places, grinded for a few hours, and did some tradepack runs and some pvp, all while in the leveling phase. When my guild of laid-back players faced the tryhard guild that was 10~20 levels ahead, we would still be very competitive. So I had no problem with taking my sweet time playing the game and not rushing. This is not true in ashes
If you're unfamiliar with such a system, you would probably ask: "Well, what were the sweaties grinding for then, wouldn't they get bored and leave?" and the answer would be no. Inside every tier of gear, there is still min/maxing of power to be done. Increased rarity, enchanting, gems. Progression, even when soft-locked by crafting, was meaningful and enough to keep the tryhard min/maxers engaged with the game. All the soft locking did was keep the possible power gap between sweaties and casuals way smaller for that period. The power curve for that game looked something like this:
When crafters reached the necessary level to craft the next tier of crafted gear, casuals would naturally be reaching the adventuring level to be using that tier, so they would skip the min/maxing and quickly close the gap between them and the sweaties (not entirely, as min/maxed gear was still slightly better than starter gear from that tier, so sweaties also didn't feel like they wasted their time), making the rush to max level not necessary at all and sometimes even inefficient (as you'd be grinding higher level mobs with lower level gear)
To me, this is the best crafting/gearing system I have ever experienced for this type of game, as it:
1. Values the crafting profession at all times and makes all tiers of gear valid.
2. Effectively mitigates the rush to endgame mentality, allowing players to take their time and enjoy the game, and for players that don't have as much time to keep up decently with the power progression and not be stomped in PVP.
3. Allows for rewarding progression for the players who have a lot of time to spend on the game.
Suggestions
To replicate this, only a couple of steps are necessary:
1. Crafting must be the only reliable way of acquiring gear
2. Crafting progression must be a lot slower than adventuring level progression.
Luckily, in Ashes, we already have the tools for soft-locking progression. Currently, we kind of already have this system, but if it keeps going this way on launch, we would have players choosing to rush to max level with green/blue gear drops only and only then stopping to engage with crafter gear. Therefore, to make crafting relevant early game and stop the rush to endgame, completed gear from mobs must not exist. The only exception to this rule would be some very rare drops, epic+ gear drops. Something so rare that players couldn't really count on and would be a true achievement to acquire such a thing. There is nothing legendary about a level 20 sword. Epic+ gear drops should be the only drops, and reserved for the last tiers of gear.
Would this make grinding mobs not as rewarding, as the dopamine of gear drops won't be present? Sadly, yes. This is mitigated by adding valuable crafting materials dropped from mobs and other interesting drops, but this is certainly a drawback of this system. But with big contributions such as allowing casual players to keep up with tryhards while keeping progression paths for them, killing the rush to endgame mentality, and making crafting valuable at all tiers and periods in the game, it's a drawback worth having. Hopefully, the devs can find other ways to reward players on the grind to supplement this weakness.
We could take this system even further and do the same for crafters. Since nodes are the true soft-lock in progression, we have sweaty crafting mains that gather-craft for 20h a day and crafter mains that play at a much lower frequency. So node crafting stations soft-lock the crafters, who in turn soft-lock the power progression. Does this mean crafters won't differentiate from each other? No. Crafters will stand out by working on min/maxing their crafting power. Crafting gear and their ability to craft superior items.
I'll turn again to Ravendawn, as they had a pretty good crafting system that rewarded players for investing in crafting. The game had a minigame, in which your crafting progression (gear, buffs, food, etc) and mats used would determine your item quality ceiling (how high of a quality you could actually get) and a mix of your decisions and a bit of luck would decide where that quality would land. I'll leave a tutorial here so you can see for yourself:
https://youtu.be/a6Lj3Q4yxOI?t=110
I could see a similar minigame system for ashes. You could have a fragility status that determines how easy it is to make a mistake and how far can you push the quality before the item breaks. This status would be relative to the quality of materials used and the difficulty tier of the craft. Better gear could also make it less costful on the craft's durability and less chance of making a fatal mistake. A stamina status would determine how long you can do the minigame before you succeed/fail. This status would be relative to your crafting level, gear, food buffs, and maybe an experience status (how much you crafted said item for instance). The goal of the minigame would be to push your stamina and durability of materials to the limit while trying to increase the quality of the item without breaking it and failing in the process. Each time you fill the quality bar you'd increase the roll of the item, and filling the quality bar X amount of times could even cause you to increase the rarity of the crafted item.
Now, I know what some players will say: "Oh no, minigames suck, it's fun for the first time but then it's just annoying" and I kinda agree. That's why you can create ways to make it less cumbersome and not necessary if you are crafting items for leveling. In the system above, if all you wanted was to craft bulk items to level, you could use a mass craft option and create 50~100 items at the same time while only going through the minigame once. On top of that, since you don't care about the quality of the crafted item, the minigame is severely expedited and you would be able to quickly spam it as you're only caring about the progress part of the minigame. You could even take the Star Wars Galaxies route and make a mode where you're only crafting minimum rarity and roll items in bulk without going through the minigame at all. Therefore minigames like this would only matter and take the player's time and attention when crafting items for use, when you care about quality. In my experience, these factors make the crafting minigame really not cumbersome and actually meaningful when it matters.
A system like this could make the crafting gameplay very interesting even when nodes soft-lock your progression, as you'd be investing in gear and better materials, and acquiring experience from multiple crafts while trying to push the limit of quality you can achieve in the craft. Meanwhile, casual crafters wouldn't be able to craft masterpieces like tryhard players, but they would be able to craft regular gear that would still be valuable and participate in the economy, without always being behind on the tier of crafting.
TLDR:
1. Removing gear drops from mobs and soft-locking gear progression through crafting progression makes crafting valuable at all tiers, and decreases the power gap between casuals and hardcore players while allowing these hardcore players to keep progressing
2. Soft-locking artisan progression through node progression can do the same for crafters, and a crafting minigame can help crafters stand out from each other while being soft-locked
1. There are currently only incentives to rush to the max level. No reason to engage with any other systems in the game before it, especially pvp since levels matter a lot.
2. At launch, if the trend continues, there will also be no reason to craft any gear other than max-level gear. Crafting will be useless for 50 levels.
3. The power gap between casual players and tryhards will be huge, as leveling is long and max-level gear will severely outperform lower-level gear.
This game already has everything set up to create a very interesting professions system that promotes economic gameplay as a key role, while discouraging the endgame rush mentality. All it needs to do now is to choose to do so.
I say this confidently as I saw this achieved recently in an MMORPG called Ravendawn. In the game, crafters were the only ones providing completed items to players. Mobs and quests/events did not drop gear, but materials to craft that gear. The catch here is, as it happens in ashes, the tier of gear crafted was way behind the sweaty players' speed pacing. The ones playing 16-20h a day rushing to max level were using the same tier gear as the casual player grinding for 2~4h, even though they had like 15~20 levels of difference. I took my time exploring the game, finding mysteries, going to new places, grinded for a few hours, and did some tradepack runs and some pvp, all while in the leveling phase. When my guild of laid-back players faced the tryhard guild that was 10~20 levels ahead, we would still be very competitive. So I had no problem with taking my sweet time playing the game and not rushing. This is not true in ashes
If you're unfamiliar with such a system, you would probably ask: "Well, what were the sweaties grinding for then, wouldn't they get bored and leave?" and the answer would be no. Inside every tier of gear, there is still min/maxing of power to be done. Increased rarity, enchanting, gems. Progression, even when soft-locked by crafting, was meaningful and enough to keep the tryhard min/maxers engaged with the game. All the soft locking did was keep the possible power gap between sweaties and casuals way smaller for that period. The power curve for that game looked something like this:
When crafters reached the necessary level to craft the next tier of crafted gear, casuals would naturally be reaching the adventuring level to be using that tier, so they would skip the min/maxing and quickly close the gap between them and the sweaties (not entirely, as min/maxed gear was still slightly better than starter gear from that tier, so sweaties also didn't feel like they wasted their time), making the rush to max level not necessary at all and sometimes even inefficient (as you'd be grinding higher level mobs with lower level gear)
To me, this is the best crafting/gearing system I have ever experienced for this type of game, as it:
1. Values the crafting profession at all times and makes all tiers of gear valid.
2. Effectively mitigates the rush to endgame mentality, allowing players to take their time and enjoy the game, and for players that don't have as much time to keep up decently with the power progression and not be stomped in PVP.
3. Allows for rewarding progression for the players who have a lot of time to spend on the game.
Suggestions
To replicate this, only a couple of steps are necessary:
1. Crafting must be the only reliable way of acquiring gear
2. Crafting progression must be a lot slower than adventuring level progression.
Luckily, in Ashes, we already have the tools for soft-locking progression. Currently, we kind of already have this system, but if it keeps going this way on launch, we would have players choosing to rush to max level with green/blue gear drops only and only then stopping to engage with crafter gear. Therefore, to make crafting relevant early game and stop the rush to endgame, completed gear from mobs must not exist. The only exception to this rule would be some very rare drops, epic+ gear drops. Something so rare that players couldn't really count on and would be a true achievement to acquire such a thing. There is nothing legendary about a level 20 sword. Epic+ gear drops should be the only drops, and reserved for the last tiers of gear.
Would this make grinding mobs not as rewarding, as the dopamine of gear drops won't be present? Sadly, yes. This is mitigated by adding valuable crafting materials dropped from mobs and other interesting drops, but this is certainly a drawback of this system. But with big contributions such as allowing casual players to keep up with tryhards while keeping progression paths for them, killing the rush to endgame mentality, and making crafting valuable at all tiers and periods in the game, it's a drawback worth having. Hopefully, the devs can find other ways to reward players on the grind to supplement this weakness.
We could take this system even further and do the same for crafters. Since nodes are the true soft-lock in progression, we have sweaty crafting mains that gather-craft for 20h a day and crafter mains that play at a much lower frequency. So node crafting stations soft-lock the crafters, who in turn soft-lock the power progression. Does this mean crafters won't differentiate from each other? No. Crafters will stand out by working on min/maxing their crafting power. Crafting gear and their ability to craft superior items.
I'll turn again to Ravendawn, as they had a pretty good crafting system that rewarded players for investing in crafting. The game had a minigame, in which your crafting progression (gear, buffs, food, etc) and mats used would determine your item quality ceiling (how high of a quality you could actually get) and a mix of your decisions and a bit of luck would decide where that quality would land. I'll leave a tutorial here so you can see for yourself:
https://youtu.be/a6Lj3Q4yxOI?t=110
I could see a similar minigame system for ashes. You could have a fragility status that determines how easy it is to make a mistake and how far can you push the quality before the item breaks. This status would be relative to the quality of materials used and the difficulty tier of the craft. Better gear could also make it less costful on the craft's durability and less chance of making a fatal mistake. A stamina status would determine how long you can do the minigame before you succeed/fail. This status would be relative to your crafting level, gear, food buffs, and maybe an experience status (how much you crafted said item for instance). The goal of the minigame would be to push your stamina and durability of materials to the limit while trying to increase the quality of the item without breaking it and failing in the process. Each time you fill the quality bar you'd increase the roll of the item, and filling the quality bar X amount of times could even cause you to increase the rarity of the crafted item.
Now, I know what some players will say: "Oh no, minigames suck, it's fun for the first time but then it's just annoying" and I kinda agree. That's why you can create ways to make it less cumbersome and not necessary if you are crafting items for leveling. In the system above, if all you wanted was to craft bulk items to level, you could use a mass craft option and create 50~100 items at the same time while only going through the minigame once. On top of that, since you don't care about the quality of the crafted item, the minigame is severely expedited and you would be able to quickly spam it as you're only caring about the progress part of the minigame. You could even take the Star Wars Galaxies route and make a mode where you're only crafting minimum rarity and roll items in bulk without going through the minigame at all. Therefore minigames like this would only matter and take the player's time and attention when crafting items for use, when you care about quality. In my experience, these factors make the crafting minigame really not cumbersome and actually meaningful when it matters.
A system like this could make the crafting gameplay very interesting even when nodes soft-lock your progression, as you'd be investing in gear and better materials, and acquiring experience from multiple crafts while trying to push the limit of quality you can achieve in the craft. Meanwhile, casual crafters wouldn't be able to craft masterpieces like tryhard players, but they would be able to craft regular gear that would still be valuable and participate in the economy, without always being behind on the tier of crafting.
TLDR:
1. Removing gear drops from mobs and soft-locking gear progression through crafting progression makes crafting valuable at all tiers, and decreases the power gap between casuals and hardcore players while allowing these hardcore players to keep progressing
2. Soft-locking artisan progression through node progression can do the same for crafters, and a crafting minigame can help crafters stand out from each other while being soft-locked
Imnotkio
1
Re: PLEASE Don't make AoC subscription mandatory
No, I don’t think I went off-topic… Maybe you come from an era where games were sold at a high price with a mandatory subscription, and I’m not questioning your advanced age at all. However, I am certainly questioning your credibility and consistency.
Because you said it yourself: the numbers speak for themselves. World of Warcraft never had to slash its prices to bargain-bin merchants like you claim. Dark Age of Camelot didn’t either—you had to pay for the base game, expansions at full price, and a monthly subscription. In return, we got high-quality games and expansions, an active player base, and well-developed content.
Yes, WoW changed its monetization model, but it also changed its content—shifting towards a more casual, fast-food gaming experience with decisions that did more harm than good. So it’s only natural that when you offer mediocre quality, repetitive content, and a dull gameplay loop, you end up slashing subscription fees just to keep players around.
But you? You’re an absolute enigma! You’re okay with paying a subscription for a couple of minor perks rather than paying one that gives you full access to the game’s content. That’s ridiculous… In the end, you pay nothing at all, and you’d rather settle for dull, uninspired games with uncertain content instead of investing in quality.
And I truly regret that Ashes of Creation isn’t charging both a base license fee and a subscription. In the long run, this represents a massive loss of revenue for a company that employs hundreds of people. I fear that this decision will ultimately water down a game with immense potential, simply due to budget constraints.
So, I won’t go any further in this discussion. There are thousands of bland games out there that will happily take your credit card for optional content. If you’re too stingy to pay for a game where you can easily spend hundreds of hours each month, then go ahead and enjoy those.
Because you said it yourself: the numbers speak for themselves. World of Warcraft never had to slash its prices to bargain-bin merchants like you claim. Dark Age of Camelot didn’t either—you had to pay for the base game, expansions at full price, and a monthly subscription. In return, we got high-quality games and expansions, an active player base, and well-developed content.
Yes, WoW changed its monetization model, but it also changed its content—shifting towards a more casual, fast-food gaming experience with decisions that did more harm than good. So it’s only natural that when you offer mediocre quality, repetitive content, and a dull gameplay loop, you end up slashing subscription fees just to keep players around.
But you? You’re an absolute enigma! You’re okay with paying a subscription for a couple of minor perks rather than paying one that gives you full access to the game’s content. That’s ridiculous… In the end, you pay nothing at all, and you’d rather settle for dull, uninspired games with uncertain content instead of investing in quality.
And I truly regret that Ashes of Creation isn’t charging both a base license fee and a subscription. In the long run, this represents a massive loss of revenue for a company that employs hundreds of people. I fear that this decision will ultimately water down a game with immense potential, simply due to budget constraints.
So, I won’t go any further in this discussion. There are thousands of bland games out there that will happily take your credit card for optional content. If you’re too stingy to pay for a game where you can easily spend hundreds of hours each month, then go ahead and enjoy those.
Imanek
1
Re: Some art complaints are missplaced
I'm more than happy with how the game looks. It's just stunning.
Re: 🌼👋 Dev Discussion: Gatherable Spawning System
Just read the entire thread so far, that is how much I care about these issues.
I would first like to mention that the processing changes with flexible batch sizes and mix and match rarity of ingredients is awesome and a wonderful much needed change.
It is disappointing however not seeing anything official about hunting rng, rarity, and general issues though. Others have mentioned it, but not intrepid. Now those of us who have been following this game understand that the whole of the crafting and gathering system we have now is a placeholder. The hunting system especially is not at all what is intended but a stop gap implemented because the real system wasn't/isn't ready.
Basically meaning that the current system is a placeholder for a placeholder, simply meant to give us something semi usable. I am therefore trying not to be too frustrated or harsh in my criticisms. It is however one of the most frustrating parts of the game for me currently.
All other professions, regardless of how flawed the static spawn system is (and it is BAD and WRONG), have access to high end materials. Hunting does not (heroics are possible just roughly about the same odds as winning lotto), and this is artificially bottle necking most crafting in the game. The professions are designed to be interdependent and this adds complexity and is overall a good thing. It does however mean that when one part is broken compared to the rest that the whole system is held back.
I do feel that maybe hunting rarity is the only profession in the game that is working as it should? Again getting a rare carcass is is worth cheering for, getting a heroic carcass is a true bragging moment. If the other profession had similar rates it wouldn't feel so bad. I however feel it should be brought up a fair bit, while others are busted down to meet somewhere in the middle. Great stuff should be hard to craft! That difficulty should not however stem from 1 profession being nearly impossible to get rarities matching the others.
No other gathering profession has to deal with the rng of maybe you get a carcass, or maybe you get a live animal. Bears are especially bad for this, it feels like bears are set to be live 75-80% of the time, meaning that not only is your chance of getting a rare+ carcass HORRIBLY low, your chance of even getting a carcass in the first place is really bad! It is almost enough to make you want to tear your hair out sometimes.
The whole thing is extremely frustrating. A hunter definitely has control of if he kills or does not kill whatever he hunts, it makes no sense for it to be random. l feel the best solution would be a toggle in the hunting section of the skill book, to switch between trapping for live, or shooting to kill. Failing that a skill in the hunting section of the skill book to kill and turn into a carcass any live animal you target in your inventory, assuming there is a carcass for said animal.
Please intrepid, PLEASE do something about hunting! It's been almost 6 months since alpha2 started and yet a fairly integral part of the entire crafting system is basically broken, with little to nothing ever being said about it. At worst maybe add hides to maps loot tables? It needs something.
Last point on hunting. The hunting bags do not recognize carcasses as a hunting resource and only allows a standard stack size of 20. Please fix.
While on the subject of bags I would like to add my voice to the few others about processing stacks/bags. There needs to either be bags for processed materials or make related gathering bags allow larger stacks of processed materials. A lumber jacking bag should let you have timber/planks/beams/boards etc in the same stack size as the wood you gather. Mining bags allow fragments/ingots/cut gems/sand/blocks etc. I think people get the idea.
Specialized bags would be preferable, I feel. As it stands currently if you don't level at least 1 gathering profession (and especially mining or hunting) you are basically doomed to pathetically small inventory space forever. At least until there are larger sanctus bag equivalents available to craft.
Ok now my hunting rant is over lets move on to the more common topics of this discussion.
First, I will repeat again that fixed spawns are BAD and WRONG. Many others here have expounded on why this is so. Most importantly because it makes +rarity gear and skill points spent in the trees we are told are eventually coming pointless.
The set areas for types of resources to spawn are good. Being able to know which areas are likely to have good concentrations of mining nodes, hunt-able animals and such rewards people who can pick good routes while traveling to let them get a chance of finding some good stuff. I feel higher tier resources should be less frequent when servers first start up though (talking about after a wipe and/or beta/release). So frustrating to roam during the early days and most nodes you see are tin/slate/emerald/iron/limestone/sapphire nodes that no one can mine.
Nodes should respawn with a random base rarity every time they happen to do so. Then when gathered, a roll based on your rarity rating possibly upgrades it from there. Roll should occur server side to help prevent hacks. This means it's possible but extremely unlikely you get epic/legendary materials without gear, but the gear is extremely helpful and greatly increases your chances of finding good stuff. Maybe limit base rarity to heroic, meaning epic and legendary would require good gear.
Currently when you roam you pretty much know that if you see a node, chances are it's common since no one snatched it as soon as it respawned. Not fun, feels bad.
The set timers are also fine. The set areas and set timers combined can very well lead to conflict because both can be deduced with reasonable accuracy. Having specific nodes always respawn at the same rarity does not. As mentioned by others no one other than the first person to hit the node knows that it's legendary, then they set a timer and organize someone else to take it if they can't. Even if things are changed so the timer isn't completely accurate, and the area it might respawn in is larger much of the problem remains the same.
I however have to agree with the previous posters who pointed out that there are more than enough activities in the game that encourage or require conflict. There is no need to bring it or force it into the gathering system. This is something that would suit a PvP all the time with no penalties type game. Not a game where flagging is optional and you get corrupted for killing people that don't fight back.
I like the corruption system, I am not by any means advocating for a more PvP oriented system! I am merely pointing out that gathering is as mentioned by others generally a solo/casual activity done during down times, while waiting for the rest of the group to log on or traveling from a to b. Any node you find should have a chance to be worthy, at the moment that is not the case.
I feel that not many people are going to be keen enough to flag up and fight over spawns of resources even if they know that that copper vein/braid wood tree/etc is leggo. Why? Because loot drops. No one can return to town and drop stuff in storage every time they get something good, so why would they risk everything they gathered so far by flagging up and fighting someone over a node or 2? Most (well, probably at least a small majority?) of people that gather are more likely the PvE players that aren't that keen on fighting people in the first place.
If you punish people for dying, they will try to avoid dying. Fighting someone over a resource and risk death penalties + they take some of my stuff?! No thanks! Of course if you are gods gift to gaming and sure you wont lose, or maybe you just left town and are empty of all valuables then the story changes. you might get mugged at anytime but at least you can content yourself that unless they have a buddy nearby to kill them they will get hunted down by others in revenge.
Lawless zones and other forced flag areas should have a massive +rarity chance when they respawn due to the danger involved in being there.
Having events spawn at times where likelihood of good materials is high sounds cool. Having events trigger due to someone finding good stuff (the suggested glow comes to mind) or planted a pylon they spent money/resources on sounds horrid. Why would anyone willingly spend on something that is only going to bring a zerg down on your head? No one wants to use up resources to make items that are highly likely to result in benefiting others rather than oneself.
The upcoming changes also mentioned tools will be equip-able items as per normal. i have to wonder if you intend to have them actually work with this change? Some guildies have shown through data mining that currently, at least for rarity, the rating on the gathering tool is never checked, only clothes and food actually affect it. Most of the other stats also seem to do nothing. Tools are not currently worth the materials needed to make them, really hoping this changes!
Gathering in the game currently feels great! Until you find out about the fixed spawns, then feels bad. As for likes and dislikes in gathering, I only really have one thing to say which is please for the love of whatever powers that may or may not be that you may or may not believe in PLEASE NO MINI GAMES!
I have seen some people complaining about fishing being an afk activity, and it's kind of legit. I however feel that any good MMO need a few afk activities. There should be some where you plant in town converting the resources handed in for the buy orders into the commodities they are for in order to gain small amounts of related crafting xp, assuming you meet certain thresholds. At the moment one is basically forced to mass craft novice recipes in order to level because the materials needed to make anything higher are just too many and involve too many other professions. That is a bit off topic but it is certainly an issue that also needs addressing.
Well I feel there is more I wanted to say but I have forgotten it now after typing and drinking for hours. This thesis is likely long enough.
Game is good despite the work that is clearly needed and overall I enjoy it! Keep up the good work Intrepid!
I would first like to mention that the processing changes with flexible batch sizes and mix and match rarity of ingredients is awesome and a wonderful much needed change.
It is disappointing however not seeing anything official about hunting rng, rarity, and general issues though. Others have mentioned it, but not intrepid. Now those of us who have been following this game understand that the whole of the crafting and gathering system we have now is a placeholder. The hunting system especially is not at all what is intended but a stop gap implemented because the real system wasn't/isn't ready.
Basically meaning that the current system is a placeholder for a placeholder, simply meant to give us something semi usable. I am therefore trying not to be too frustrated or harsh in my criticisms. It is however one of the most frustrating parts of the game for me currently.
All other professions, regardless of how flawed the static spawn system is (and it is BAD and WRONG), have access to high end materials. Hunting does not (heroics are possible just roughly about the same odds as winning lotto), and this is artificially bottle necking most crafting in the game. The professions are designed to be interdependent and this adds complexity and is overall a good thing. It does however mean that when one part is broken compared to the rest that the whole system is held back.
I do feel that maybe hunting rarity is the only profession in the game that is working as it should? Again getting a rare carcass is is worth cheering for, getting a heroic carcass is a true bragging moment. If the other profession had similar rates it wouldn't feel so bad. I however feel it should be brought up a fair bit, while others are busted down to meet somewhere in the middle. Great stuff should be hard to craft! That difficulty should not however stem from 1 profession being nearly impossible to get rarities matching the others.
No other gathering profession has to deal with the rng of maybe you get a carcass, or maybe you get a live animal. Bears are especially bad for this, it feels like bears are set to be live 75-80% of the time, meaning that not only is your chance of getting a rare+ carcass HORRIBLY low, your chance of even getting a carcass in the first place is really bad! It is almost enough to make you want to tear your hair out sometimes.
The whole thing is extremely frustrating. A hunter definitely has control of if he kills or does not kill whatever he hunts, it makes no sense for it to be random. l feel the best solution would be a toggle in the hunting section of the skill book, to switch between trapping for live, or shooting to kill. Failing that a skill in the hunting section of the skill book to kill and turn into a carcass any live animal you target in your inventory, assuming there is a carcass for said animal.
Please intrepid, PLEASE do something about hunting! It's been almost 6 months since alpha2 started and yet a fairly integral part of the entire crafting system is basically broken, with little to nothing ever being said about it. At worst maybe add hides to maps loot tables? It needs something.
Last point on hunting. The hunting bags do not recognize carcasses as a hunting resource and only allows a standard stack size of 20. Please fix.
While on the subject of bags I would like to add my voice to the few others about processing stacks/bags. There needs to either be bags for processed materials or make related gathering bags allow larger stacks of processed materials. A lumber jacking bag should let you have timber/planks/beams/boards etc in the same stack size as the wood you gather. Mining bags allow fragments/ingots/cut gems/sand/blocks etc. I think people get the idea.
Specialized bags would be preferable, I feel. As it stands currently if you don't level at least 1 gathering profession (and especially mining or hunting) you are basically doomed to pathetically small inventory space forever. At least until there are larger sanctus bag equivalents available to craft.
Ok now my hunting rant is over lets move on to the more common topics of this discussion.
First, I will repeat again that fixed spawns are BAD and WRONG. Many others here have expounded on why this is so. Most importantly because it makes +rarity gear and skill points spent in the trees we are told are eventually coming pointless.
The set areas for types of resources to spawn are good. Being able to know which areas are likely to have good concentrations of mining nodes, hunt-able animals and such rewards people who can pick good routes while traveling to let them get a chance of finding some good stuff. I feel higher tier resources should be less frequent when servers first start up though (talking about after a wipe and/or beta/release). So frustrating to roam during the early days and most nodes you see are tin/slate/emerald/iron/limestone/sapphire nodes that no one can mine.
Nodes should respawn with a random base rarity every time they happen to do so. Then when gathered, a roll based on your rarity rating possibly upgrades it from there. Roll should occur server side to help prevent hacks. This means it's possible but extremely unlikely you get epic/legendary materials without gear, but the gear is extremely helpful and greatly increases your chances of finding good stuff. Maybe limit base rarity to heroic, meaning epic and legendary would require good gear.
Currently when you roam you pretty much know that if you see a node, chances are it's common since no one snatched it as soon as it respawned. Not fun, feels bad.
The set timers are also fine. The set areas and set timers combined can very well lead to conflict because both can be deduced with reasonable accuracy. Having specific nodes always respawn at the same rarity does not. As mentioned by others no one other than the first person to hit the node knows that it's legendary, then they set a timer and organize someone else to take it if they can't. Even if things are changed so the timer isn't completely accurate, and the area it might respawn in is larger much of the problem remains the same.
I however have to agree with the previous posters who pointed out that there are more than enough activities in the game that encourage or require conflict. There is no need to bring it or force it into the gathering system. This is something that would suit a PvP all the time with no penalties type game. Not a game where flagging is optional and you get corrupted for killing people that don't fight back.
I like the corruption system, I am not by any means advocating for a more PvP oriented system! I am merely pointing out that gathering is as mentioned by others generally a solo/casual activity done during down times, while waiting for the rest of the group to log on or traveling from a to b. Any node you find should have a chance to be worthy, at the moment that is not the case.
I feel that not many people are going to be keen enough to flag up and fight over spawns of resources even if they know that that copper vein/braid wood tree/etc is leggo. Why? Because loot drops. No one can return to town and drop stuff in storage every time they get something good, so why would they risk everything they gathered so far by flagging up and fighting someone over a node or 2? Most (well, probably at least a small majority?) of people that gather are more likely the PvE players that aren't that keen on fighting people in the first place.
If you punish people for dying, they will try to avoid dying. Fighting someone over a resource and risk death penalties + they take some of my stuff?! No thanks! Of course if you are gods gift to gaming and sure you wont lose, or maybe you just left town and are empty of all valuables then the story changes. you might get mugged at anytime but at least you can content yourself that unless they have a buddy nearby to kill them they will get hunted down by others in revenge.
Lawless zones and other forced flag areas should have a massive +rarity chance when they respawn due to the danger involved in being there.
Having events spawn at times where likelihood of good materials is high sounds cool. Having events trigger due to someone finding good stuff (the suggested glow comes to mind) or planted a pylon they spent money/resources on sounds horrid. Why would anyone willingly spend on something that is only going to bring a zerg down on your head? No one wants to use up resources to make items that are highly likely to result in benefiting others rather than oneself.
The upcoming changes also mentioned tools will be equip-able items as per normal. i have to wonder if you intend to have them actually work with this change? Some guildies have shown through data mining that currently, at least for rarity, the rating on the gathering tool is never checked, only clothes and food actually affect it. Most of the other stats also seem to do nothing. Tools are not currently worth the materials needed to make them, really hoping this changes!
Gathering in the game currently feels great! Until you find out about the fixed spawns, then feels bad. As for likes and dislikes in gathering, I only really have one thing to say which is please for the love of whatever powers that may or may not be that you may or may not believe in PLEASE NO MINI GAMES!
I have seen some people complaining about fishing being an afk activity, and it's kind of legit. I however feel that any good MMO need a few afk activities. There should be some where you plant in town converting the resources handed in for the buy orders into the commodities they are for in order to gain small amounts of related crafting xp, assuming you meet certain thresholds. At the moment one is basically forced to mass craft novice recipes in order to level because the materials needed to make anything higher are just too many and involve too many other professions. That is a bit off topic but it is certainly an issue that also needs addressing.
Well I feel there is more I wanted to say but I have forgotten it now after typing and drinking for hours. This thesis is likely long enough.
Game is good despite the work that is clearly needed and overall I enjoy it! Keep up the good work Intrepid!
Re: PLEASE Don't make AoC subscription mandatory
Many of the people here are here because of the promise not to be one of these games that take advantage of its players. Instead just a sub and everything that makes your char more powerful is only earn in game. Im one of that group.
Re: PLEASE Don't make AoC subscription mandatory
Please DO make AoC subscription mandatory, it helps with the game running costs AND limits the influence of gold sellers and similar refuse. I can only hope that use of virtual / pre-paid credit cards is also restricted.
Dynamism should apply Pep at the Start and End of a Flourish cast
As you can see in this clip- Dynamism works as the tooltip describes- when a flourish is finished, it applies pep in a small radius around the target.
If it applied pep at the beginning and end of the flourish it would feel about 10 times better to use- I find myself starting most of my flourishes near allies, but rarely do I finish a flourishes on top of allies.
Re: solo grinding vs group and Difficulty of mobs
This is exactly why I've been saying that bards shouldn't have strong heals and clerics shouldn't have anywhere near good dps. Both of them already have OP mechanic for pve (buffs, heals), so why make them even stronger.
Ludullu
2
Melodies dropping from CC is too punishing
Currently, any incap, stun, trip, or knockback will cause a bard's melody to drop .In a game where CC is plentiful and a lot of pivotal spells are .5 seconds or less, being locked out of your class mechanic for 2 seconds constantly feels clunky.
I think recasting melodies should be about changing your buff and resonance- currently it feels overly punishing to have to recast your melody every time, especially with knockbacks and CC that lasts less than a second.
I have two suggestions that might help
1- Instead of the melody dropping, negate the effect of the aura while the bard is CC'd- groups wouldn't benefit from it when the bard is CC'd.
2- Melody only drops when the bard is stunned, tripped, or incapaciated for at least a few seconds, reducing frustration from "micro CC" and knockbacks.
I think recasting melodies should be about changing your buff and resonance- currently it feels overly punishing to have to recast your melody every time, especially with knockbacks and CC that lasts less than a second.
I have two suggestions that might help
1- Instead of the melody dropping, negate the effect of the aura while the bard is CC'd- groups wouldn't benefit from it when the bard is CC'd.
2- Melody only drops when the bard is stunned, tripped, or incapaciated for at least a few seconds, reducing frustration from "micro CC" and knockbacks.
When Rogue and Summoner Showcase ?
Words almost fail to describe just how much i miss the monthly Showcases before the Alpha started.
Because since the Alpha started, we didn't get the same "Showcases" anymore -> but simply Footage from out of the Alpha.
So now since January i heard from the Rogue. Apparently he was supposed to come(??) into the Alpha at the End of January or to the End of February.
Now i more or less know (?) that the Rogue will be delayed still, because it is apparently harder for the Developer Team to program this Class so that it neatly blend into the Alpha like all the other Classes until now.
I assume it will be the same for the Summoner-Class, which i hope to play sometime in the Future and probably as my Main Class.
In Case it is already announced when we might see a Showcase of the Rogue and the Summoner -> then i gloriously managed to miss that.
When Please can we expect a Showcase to these last two, nice Classes - which are supposed to be Part of Ashes of Creation in the Future ?
I miss these Showcases so much. One of the last i can remember, was the Bard. * sigh * ... ... ^_^
Because since the Alpha started, we didn't get the same "Showcases" anymore -> but simply Footage from out of the Alpha.
So now since January i heard from the Rogue. Apparently he was supposed to come(??) into the Alpha at the End of January or to the End of February.
Now i more or less know (?) that the Rogue will be delayed still, because it is apparently harder for the Developer Team to program this Class so that it neatly blend into the Alpha like all the other Classes until now.
I assume it will be the same for the Summoner-Class, which i hope to play sometime in the Future and probably as my Main Class.
In Case it is already announced when we might see a Showcase of the Rogue and the Summoner -> then i gloriously managed to miss that.
When Please can we expect a Showcase to these last two, nice Classes - which are supposed to be Part of Ashes of Creation in the Future ?
I miss these Showcases so much. One of the last i can remember, was the Bard. * sigh * ... ... ^_^
Aszkalon
1