Combat: Tera/BDO or more like GW2?

No talk at all about combat, so I'm especially interested in this. I read somewhere that combat would be tab tageted. Hopefully the pacing of combat is more gw2 than archeage (which I thought had horribly generic combat and terrible ability design).
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Comments

  • I think I read somewhere that it's going to be a mixture between the two, leaning more towards tab targeting. However I do hope they consider going with an action combat system similar to BDO. It felt so refreshing and smooth.
  • It would be nice to see this game have combat like Blade and Soul. That game had the best combat I've played with. The combat is reaction-base, which requires skills to block/counter attacks from NPC. You have a 1-4, Z-V, Q/E, LMB/RMB, and F for your abilities. LMB/RMB is your filler abilities, or your "auto" attack abilities that you spam when you have nothing else to do. BDO combat was decent, but didn't attract me in.
  • Yes a lot of talk, but I have not seen anything definitive about combat or classes. Everything looks good so far but combat for me is definitely one of the most important. Black Desserts action combat is pretty bad ass. It seems when games try please both action combat and tab targeting fans it does not work out so well. Anyway if you guys see anything official on this please keep us up to date.
  • Oh no!
    I thought we were moving away from the age of whack-a-mole :(
  • Fingers crossed we get action combat like BDO or even something like GW2s combat. Hope they don't go for something like Revelation Online which looks like action combat, but you cant actually dodge non-telegraphed attacks and so on.
  • [quote quote=1525]No talk at all about combat, so I’m especially interested in this. I read somewhere that combat would be tab tageted. Hopefully the pacing of combat is more gw2 than archeage (which I thought had horribly generic combat and terrible ability design).

    [/quote]

    if you have a look at Cryy's latest video it has some combat scenes in it (https://youtu.be/a33CCtp35tU?t=386) that might give you a rough look at what it may be like
  • I hope it is more like GW2. I know people like action combat but it really sucks when you have high ping.
  • While I can understand the issue with action combat and high ping I have to say I really hope they don't go the tab targeting route. Action combat like BDO gives is the future. Blade & Soul did it passably well although I felt it was too chained-combo driven. Tera was tolerable until you did combat in BDO....Say what you will about other aspects of that MMO. They nailed combat.
  • I think it very much depends. If we're really up to getting the Holy Trinity, I don't know how a BDO orrientated game will play out. It will work just fine for everything that plays in melee but ranged classes, not so sure about that..

    About Boobs & Soul, the combat system is a little meh. It's basically TAB-targetting par exellence. Many skills can't be used without a 'real target'. That's so 2000s, we have had games that show us how combat should look like. Boobs & Soul was amazing in 2013, when it launched in Korea at that time, but here, it's a little well, outdated - my opinon.
    That of course does not mean that Boobs & Soul isn't successful. It does what it offers quite well, but there are games - BDO, for instance - which showed us how MMO combat could look like, apart from the ridiculously goodlooking graphics.

    I really like GW2 combat, it's tab targeting with an additional 'free-will-combat system'. But yet again, it depends on which class you're playing. Melee works absolutely fine without targeting anyone, via TAB, but it also works fine doing so with TAB. It offers both, not the extent of BDO, but it does its job satisfactory. Yet again, ranged classes just play smoother with a TAB-targeting-system. .


    ***

    I would say that the ability to dodge certain attacks is a necessity. Also, fewer skills on your hotbar are mandatory. If we really want a fast paced game, you shoud have fewer skills which can be either customized or changed to other skills.
    (Resetting your Skill tree or changing your hotbar at certain places would give an additonal challenging aspect.
    So, let's say, you can only change your skills before entering the dungeon but not during the dungeon. Thinking about which skills are usefull and which aren't, would give a more interactive gameplay.)

    <strong>That of course only applys if there are no stances to change in-between!</strong>

    ~ Zention
  • My pie-in-the-sky hope, someday, for an MMO combat system is one that is more tactical and visceral, especially melee perspective. Would love to see an Arkham, or Shadows of Mordor-type system! Maybe some of you guys have seen Absolver, it's not an MMO, but it's melee fighting still is very fluid, tactile and visceral - I'd love this! It's a bit fighter-inspired.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oX9dPFlEvnc

    The thing about BDO or WildStar or Tera or even GW2 or any of the "action-ish" systems is that, if I was in a "real" sword fight, I wouldn't be swinging wildly hoping to hit anything in a 45 degree cone in front of me :) I'd pick a target and tactically engage that way. Sure, maybe there'd be collateral damage from glancing blows and so on, but I would't be trying to "gather my opponents up into one little area to maximize my attack" - it would be completely the opposite! In short, melee AoE is kinda silly. :)

    The other thing those action combat systems lack, again at least for a melee player, is a sense of hitting.... when you're sweeping your blade through 3 or 7 enemies, there's really no feeling of connecting with those enemies. In BDO, I feel like I'm playing Diablo - which is to say it's a ton of fun, but not tactical at all. I think in a true multi-player game I'd like to see more tactics.
  • BDO's fluency in and between attacks is superior. The playstyle was, and is refreshing still. Balancing was an issue - and only stacking AP soon became a grind of 'luck' - BDO had too much RNG going on and not enough customization for the player itself(random hp increases per lvl - to name one). You could really 'feel' the hits in BDO - that was a strong point.
    BDO works in PVE. PvP, not so much. You needed to have two players <25 ping to have a somewhat decent pvp experience, then the AP needed to be balanced because you'd get **** if you had 20 AP lower. I guess balance in BDO is something that negatively influenced my pvp gameplay in bdo.
    GW2 was meh from the start for me. I'd like to call it a 'half-assed, not sure what they want' kind of combat system. The hits had no 'weight' to them and felt dull. Just a few numbers popping up - if it's like GW2 i'd prefer a full tab target system, more towards wow.
  • What I am hoping for is a dual counter system.
    eg.
    -60% -40% -20% 0% +20% +40% +60% speed.
    There are cripple buffs and speed buffs available through various single target and aoe skills.
    Every cripple buff moves you in one direction.
    Every speed buff moves you in the opposite direction.

    Then you need a multistage timer to complement it.
    buffable / buff cooldown / stasis / debuff cooldown / debuffable
    The cool down timers are to ensure you cant be group snared and such.
    Stasis is an effect lock for when the effect needs disabling for any reason (cleanse/purge).
    But you can stack buff or have debuffs stacked against you after each cooldown.
    Its enforced counter play if you like.

    This way you cant be perma snared or have perma speed.
    Its is a cat and mouse game of buff and counter debuff that harmonises with direct combat.
    Combat becomes a tactical game rather than....'hulk smash'...as you mash that hit button.

    This is of course not limited to speed.
    You can apply it to any effect.
  • I would realy like to see action combat.

    Gw2, Tera, BDO where realy good.
    I also liked B&S combat since you dont rely so much on other ppl.

    But a classical Healer, DPS, Tank system might also be not to bad. :D
  • As long as the combat is fluid and coherent with making me attentive towards the battle i'm in, then i'm fine with whatever. The problem with most tab targeting i think we know is u just stand there and press 1-5 over and over which gets boring most of the time. That's also why I think GW2 did a pretty good job with their combat. So even if AoC leans more towards tab style combat, i'm sure that the creators will want something that captures the players attention while in combat seeing as their MMO players themselves.
  • Important fo rme is.. The Fighting system should be easy to learn and rly hard to Master. So that the hard fights only can win by the pro Players..

    Same in Crafting and Farming... if you train hard.. and play good you should get the good items or other stuff
  • i only hope if it's a hybrid combat system or whatever, they might be compatible with joystick like 360 or PS control like Tera. or in the best case i hope the combat system feel or be more like Vindictus.
  • [quote quote=1525]No talk at all about combat, so I’m especially interested in this. I read somewhere that combat would be tab tageted. Hopefully the pacing of combat is more gw2 than archeage (which I thought had horribly generic combat and terrible ability design).

    [/quote]

    You can read in this interview <a href="http://www.mmorpg.com/ashes-of-creation/interviews/intrepid-studios-aims-to-breathe-new-life-into-the-mmorpg-1000011398">here</a>:

    MMORPG: Is it too early to ask about combat and how it’ll play in AoC? There are general two schools – traditional tab-target and action-based. Where does your game lie?

    SS: We are more fitted towards a traditional tab-targeted system, but we are implementing elements of mobility and positioning for our combat. We will have a more in-depth discussion of this system in our developer blogs soon.

    I also made a<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-system/"> thread </a>in the Design Discussion section some time ago (I'm quite confused on when I should be using that section or this one).

    I'll rewrite here some of my thoughts to read what you guys think:

    Combat should be responsive and “situational”, I usually play tank and I’d like to have an active block/parry skill that I need to time right (TERA as one of the best parry systems I have tried as tank so far) same goes for i-frames and evades. So I’d like to see active evades, block, parries and not just random number generated ones.

    I hope they will use a free camera movement (like in FPS games, TERA, B&S,…) and not the RMB-camera-carpal-tunnel-inducing-syndrome that there is in Archeage, Wildstar, etc…

    The traditional tab targeting is a legacy of the past when was basically the only viable option.

    In 2017 we should see a more intelligent system, aim assists features, lock on skills maybe and the combat should feel “alive” and responsive, a combat where reflexes and player skills can show.

    Making a game with an amazing world, seasons, evolved AIs and keeping acombat that's more than a decade old is such a waste imo.

    I know is very early but I’d like to hear more and discuss more about this.
    It kind of worries me when a community is overrun by echo chamber people, used to a system, that shut off any possible discussion with: “the combat is this, deal with it”.

    [quote quote=1966]Fingers crossed we get action combat like BDO or even something like GW2s combat. <strong>Hope they don’t go for something like Revelation Online which looks like action combat, but you cant actually dodge non-telegraphed attacks and so on</strong>.

    [/quote]

    I totally think the same.
  • I just wanted to add one thing, I hope they don't add ping depended skills.

    Not sure if this is clear, but in Archeage some skills require low ping to be effective and most of those skills are the basic skills such as Rapid Strike, Endless Arrows and Mana Stars. Playing from Japan with around 150 to 170 ping it gets crazy, at 150ms my arrows will shoot really fast but at 170 it is slow as normal attacks. I think there was a thing called skill queue, but its messed up or something not really sure.

    Also I am 100% aware that its my fault playing from Japan that I get high ping, however in WoW I have no problem with my skills and abilities.
  • I think the idea is that games servers will be localised.
    Localised servers come with low ping by default.

    Thats actually why I suggested mapping real geograpic areas to virtual geographic areas.
    Local players have low ping
    Remote players have high ping.
    So when remote nodes try to take over your territory they are at a ping disadvantage.
    ie Home ground gives a natural bonus.

    BUT..they have said where servers are placed will depend on the popularity of the countries concerned.
    Laws allowing.
  • @Rune_Relic

    Eh Japan's MMO market is not that great, there are only few people that play western MMOs, probably because none have been advertised.

    If there is a West Coast U.S. server, that's good enough for me :D
  • I just started playing BDO recently and the combat is absolutely fascinating. I think the same can be done in tab target though. It doesn't strictly need to be action combat.

    The aspects I like and enjoy is the high and constant mobility (although if you've played it... for example maewha and musa are a bit much in the mobility department) and the great feel of chaining your abilities correctly in a fast paced environment. I enjoy that being mobile is a skill you have to learn rather than just pressing w in the correct direction.

    GW2 has a lot of these aspects just not nearly as emphasized but it's not limited to that because of the combat system it's just a choice the developers made.

    Something BDO employs that Intrepid could utilize that I think is really fun is cancel abilities. What I mean by this is that some abilities have a long recovery time but in BDO you can use an assortment of abilities that cancel that recovery time. A good player can make there character very mobile and can chain there abilities together much faster than someone who does not utilize these cancels and know how to use them. There are even some ways to cancel or reduce the start-up times of some abilities. Just for some clarity for some people in action combat games abilities are made up of 3 parts. Start up, active, and recovery. Start up and recovery are obviously parts you'd skip if you could so when a game gives you cool ways to optimize and speed up your gameplay through cancelling these portions its just really fun.

    Really can't wait to see the combat videos soon and get a feel for what the game will be like.
  • Its going to be Tab Target combat. Not many people really care for Action combat outside of the minority on the forums. Just look at the popularity of other MMORPGs they do not have the population that Tab Target games have. Add to how shallow Action Combat is. I played several and they always have the same 5 to 10 buttons and skills. This does not allow any form of real Trinity outside of AOE healing, AOE Tanking and Damage dealing. Then you get Zerg Fest Dungeons and you are mashing buttons.

    Tab Target is the way to go but do not setup combos like FFXIV or WOW does anymore because Tab Target has devolved into 1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6 - repeat. No you need to add the Freedom into MMORPGs again where you use different skills in different situations.

    Example lets say we put an elemental mage into AOC, Your elements is, Fire, Water, Earth and Air abilities. Well if you do not have set Combos like FFXIV does, you can pick as a Elemental mage any magic class you want and use them in any combo you want. Yes some spells like a increase damage instance buff would be used before a damage spell, but You shouldn't be doing fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, Water 1........ Right. It should be shit I got a Fire Elemental I am fighting, Use 3 or 4 different water spells on it because the damage is increase because Fire is weak against water. BUT there is no rotation because maybe you need a long cast spell because you have distance between you and the Fire Elemental so you want to spam your 2 long cast spells because they do the most damage, or you might want to spam your fast cast water and your medium cast water. Or the Fire Elemental is running after you and you cannot slow him so you spam your fast water attack, but want to also use a Air attack that blows the elemental back a few feet to give you a chance to use a medium cast spell.

    Let's also not have spells where you are always locked in place. Lets make sure that most spells can be cast while on the move. Yes some spells might need to be a stand and cast. Thinking like a 5 minute CD 6 second cast meteor spell that does massive damage would be a stand in place cast spell but most spells should be able to be cast on the move. Same goes for most healing spells.

    This would allow a person to Tab Target something and attack or heal it WHILE being able to move which is more action combat like. The Action combat games I played are all moving all the time and mash buttons. While you could with Tab Target and with very few movement lock cast spells allow for a more fluid combat style. The only thing you wouldnt be doing in this setup that you have in Action Combat is making sure a reticle is over the target because it's already targeted. You also can have a larger set of abilities between 10 to 20 and have abilities like Fear, or a Sheep ability where in Action combat you cannot because you have so few abilities because the way Action Combat works.

    Make it Tab Target that is highly mobile basically.
  • [quote quote=3982]Its going to be Tab Target combat. Not many people really care for Action combat outside of the minority on the forums. Just look at the popularity of other MMORPGs they do not have the population that Tab Target games have. Add to how shallow Action Combat is. I played several and they always have the same 5 to 10 buttons and skills. This does not allow any form of real Trinity outside of AOE healing, AOE Tanking and Damage dealing. Then you get Zerg Fest Dungeons and you are mashing buttons.

    Tab Target is the way to go but do not setup combos like FFXIV or WOW does anymore because Tab Target has devolved into 1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6 – repeat. No you need to add the Freedom into MMORPGs again where you use different skills in different situations.

    Example lets say we put an elemental mage into AOC, Your elements is, Fire, Water, Earth and Air abilities. Well if you do not have set Combos like FFXIV does, you can pick as a Elemental mage any magic class you want and use them in any combo you want. Yes some spells like a increase damage instance buff would be used before a damage spell, but You shouldn’t be doing fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, Water 1…….. Right. It should be shit I got a Fire Elemental I am fighting, Use 3 or 4 different water spells on it because the damage is increase because Fire is weak against water. BUT there is no rotation because maybe you need a long cast spell because you have distance between you and the Fire Elemental so you want to spam your 2 long cast spells because they do the most damage, or you might want to spam your fast cast water and your medium cast water. Or the Fire Elemental is running after you and you cannot slow him so you spam your fast water attack, but want to also use a Air attack that blows the elemental back a few feet to give you a chance to use a medium cast spell.

    Let’s also not have spells where you are always locked in place. Lets make sure that most spells can be cast while on the move. Yes some spells might need to be a stand and cast. Thinking like a 5 minute CD 6 second cast meteor spell that does massive damage would be a stand in place cast spell but most spells should be able to be cast on the move. Same goes for most healing spells.

    This would allow a person to Tab Target something and attack or heal it WHILE being able to move which is more action combat like. The Action combat games I played are all moving all the time and mash buttons. While you could with Tab Target and with very few movement lock cast spells allow for a more fluid combat style. The only thing you wouldnt be doing in this setup that you have in Action Combat is making sure a reticle is over the target because it’s already targeted. You also can have a larger set of abilities between 10 to 20 and have abilities like Fear, or a Sheep ability where in Action combat you cannot because you have so few abilities because the way Action Combat works.

    Make it Tab Target that is highly mobile basically.

    [/quote]

    You can have the same abilities in an action system that you can do in a tab target system. Just because the games you have played didn't do it doesn't mean it can't be done. It was in an action combat game that i experience the kind of gameplay you described. I had close to 100 spells and was forced to use different kinds of magic against different mobs. I even had a wind ability you could use to knock enemies away.

    You can create fear and sheep abilities in an action combat game. Tera is action combat and has a fear ability along with many other forms of CC. Once again, just because games haven't done it doesn't mean it's not possible. I know some games like to shy away from hard CCs because they can be viewed as "not fun" but they still are very possible in action combat games.

    Just curious, what action combat games have you played and how far did you get?

    As for the op's question. I think it will be more like GW2 but i'd prefer a system closer to what Crowfall or camelot unchained is making. Besides feeling a little floaty, i like crowfalls combat, at least the direction it's going. I like the controls and the ttk but could use a little more depth. I'd also like to see the option to choose between tab target and aimed abilities like camelot unchained is talking about.
  • [quote quote=3984]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-terabdo-or-more-like-gw2/page/2/#post-3982" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    Its going to be Tab Target combat. Not many people really care for Action combat outside of the minority on the forums. Just look at the popularity of other MMORPGs they do not have the population that Tab Target games have. Add to how shallow Action Combat is. I played several and they always have the same 5 to 10 buttons and skills. This does not allow any form of real Trinity outside of AOE healing, AOE Tanking and Damage dealing. Then you get Zerg Fest Dungeons and you are mashing buttons.

    Tab Target is the way to go but do not setup combos like FFXIV or WOW does anymore because Tab Target has devolved into 1,1,1,1,2,3,4,5,6 – repeat. No you need to add the Freedom into MMORPGs again where you use different skills in different situations.

    Example lets say we put an elemental mage into AOC, Your elements is, Fire, Water, Earth and Air abilities. Well if you do not have set Combos like FFXIV does, you can pick as a Elemental mage any magic class you want and use them in any combo you want. Yes some spells like a increase damage instance buff would be used before a damage spell, but You shouldn’t be doing fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, fire 1, Water 1…….. Right. It should be shit I got a Fire Elemental I am fighting, Use 3 or 4 different water spells on it because the damage is increase because Fire is weak against water. BUT there is no rotation because maybe you need a long cast spell because you have distance between you and the Fire Elemental so you want to spam your 2 long cast spells because they do the most damage, or you might want to spam your fast cast water and your medium cast water. Or the Fire Elemental is running after you and you cannot slow him so you spam your fast water attack, but want to also use a Air attack that blows the elemental back a few feet to give you a chance to use a medium cast spell.

    Let’s also not have spells where you are always locked in place. Lets make sure that most spells can be cast while on the move. Yes some spells might need to be a stand and cast. Thinking like a 5 minute CD 6 second cast meteor spell that does massive damage would be a stand in place cast spell but most spells should be able to be cast on the move. Same goes for most healing spells.

    This would allow a person to Tab Target something and attack or heal it WHILE being able to move which is more action combat like. The Action combat games I played are all moving all the time and mash buttons. While you could with Tab Target and with very few movement lock cast spells allow for a more fluid combat style. The only thing you wouldnt be doing in this setup that you have in Action Combat is making sure a reticle is over the target because it’s already targeted. You also can have a larger set of abilities between 10 to 20 and have abilities like Fear, or a Sheep ability where in Action combat you cannot because you have so few abilities because the way Action Combat works.

    Make it Tab Target that is highly mobile basically.

    </blockquote>
    You can have the same abilities in an action system that you can do in a tab target system. Just because the games you have played didn’t do it doesn’t mean it can’t be done. It was in an action combat game that i experience the kind of gameplay you described. I had close to 100 spells and was forced to use different kinds of magic against different mobs. I even had a wind ability you could use to knock enemies away.

    You can create fear and sheep abilities in an action combat game. Tera is action combat and has a fear ability along with many other forms of CC. Once again, just because games haven’t done it doesn’t mean it’s not possible. I know some games like to shy away from hard CCs because they can be viewed as “not fun” but they still are very possible in action combat games.

    Just curious, what action combat games have you played and how far did you get?

    As for the op’s question. I think it will be more like GW2 but i’d prefer a system closer to what Crowfall or camelot unchained is making. Besides feeling a little floaty, i like crowfalls combat, at least the direction it’s going. I like the controls and the ttk but could use a little more depth. I’d also like to see the option to choose between tab target and aimed abilities like camelot unchained is talking about.

    [/quote]

    It does not matter because the Developers are already going Tab Target Combat. So it does not matter what we bitch about on this forum anymore. And no Action Combat is not as great as you try to make it out to be. I played Terra, GW2, ESO, and Neverwinter. They all sucked because the amount of time you take making sure you put your targeting focus over the target. It gets really annoying just for people who want to mash buttons. It would be 100 times better if you use Tab Target with a mobile spells, no more standing in 1 spot going through endless rotations. If you can move and cast your fire 4 spell it will keep you active.
  • [quote quote=4052]
    It does not matter because the Developers are already going Tab Target Combat. So it does not matter what we bitch about on this forum anymore. And no Action Combat is not as great as you try to make it out to be. I played Terra, GW2, ESO, and Neverwinter. They all sucked because the amount of time you take making sure you put your targeting focus over the target. It gets really annoying just for people who want to mash buttons. It would be 100 times better if you use Tab Target with a mobile spells, no more standing in 1 spot going through endless rotations. If you can move and cast your fire 4 spell it will keep you active.

    [/quote]

    Yes, they have said we will have tab-targeting and it's cool that you don't like targeting but there are those of us who do enjoy more then press buttons. Tab target has become too easy for me, i was raised with it and now enjoy the extra depth to combat aiming adds. I enjoy leading my target and aiming my abilities, it gives me an extra feeling of mastery when i get good at landing different abilities.

    Out of those action combat games you mentioned, tera is the only one that I really consider action combat. GW2 is tab target, if anything it's exactly what you are asking for as you just spam abilities while moving. ESO and neverwinter are technically action combat but are both soft lock system which isn't really full action to me. It's confuses me that you claim to have played tera but said that action MMOs can't have fear.

    But as i said, this game will be tab target and it's cool if you don't like aiming but don't make false arguments against action combat.
  • [quote quote=4055]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-terabdo-or-more-like-gw2/page/2/#post-4052" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    It does not matter because the Developers are already going Tab Target Combat. So it does not matter what we bitch about on this forum anymore. And no Action Combat is not as great as you try to make it out to be. I played Terra, GW2, ESO, and Neverwinter. They all sucked because the amount of time you take making sure you put your targeting focus over the target. It gets really annoying just for people who want to mash buttons. It would be 100 times better if you use Tab Target with a mobile spells, no more standing in 1 spot going through endless rotations. If you can move and cast your fire 4 spell it will keep you active.

    </blockquote>
    Yes, they have said we will have tab-targeting and it’s cool that you don’t like targeting but there are those of us who do enjoy more then press buttons. Tab target has become too easy for me, i was raised with it and now enjoy the extra depth to combat aiming adds. I enjoy leading my target and aiming my abilities, it gives me an extra feeling of mastery when i get good at landing different abilities.

    Out of those action combat games you mentioned, tera is the only one that I really consider action combat. GW2 is tab target, if anything it’s exactly what you are asking for as you just spam abilities while moving. ESO and neverwinter are technically action combat but are both soft lock system which isn’t really full action to me. It’s confuses me that you claim to have played tera but said that action MMOs can’t have fear.

    But as i said, this game will be tab target and it’s cool if you don’t like aiming but don’t make false arguments against action combat.

    [/quote]

    It does not matter that you were raised with it or not. And BTW it does not add extra depth it takes depth away. Look at Healing in ESO, or Wildstar hell even Neverwinter. All AOE healing Because the targeting system. It only makes you think their is extra depth because you are doing more with your hands even though you are not really doing more other than making sure your mouse is pointed at a target. You can have more depth by having Tab Targeting WITH almost all your spells being able to be cast on the move. Yes you wouldnt be aiming BUT you would be throwing spells at different targets on the move.

    Also you can say what ever you want. They are aiming for a target audience. The Old school MMORPG Players. Most of whom playing Tab Targeting, They also paid Subscriptions, they also dont need LFD/LFR tools. They are designing that game because they know that market is there. They are just taking newer content and newer ideas and not trying to focus on the fly bye players.
  • [quote quote=4065]
    It does not matter that you were raised with it or not. And BTW it does not add extra depth it takes depth away. Look at Healing in ESO, or Wildstar hell even Neverwinter. All AOE healing Because the targeting system. It only makes you think their is extra depth because you are doing more with your hands even though you are not really doing more other than making sure your mouse is pointed at a target. You can have more depth by having Tab Targeting WITH almost all your spells being able to be cast on the move. Yes you wouldnt be aiming BUT you would be throwing spells at different targets on the move.

    Also you can say what ever you want. They are aiming for a target audience. The Old school MMORPG Players. Most of whom playing Tab Targeting, They also paid Subscriptions, they also dont need LFD/LFR tools. They are designing that game because they know that market is there. They are just taking newer content and newer ideas and not trying to focus on the fly bye players.

    [/quote]

    I thought you played Tera? Tera had targeted heals.

    Every spell mechanic in a tab target game can be mimicked in an aiming system. Just because some games did it one way doesn't mean others can't do things differently.

    As i said, Tera had target heals. Darkfall had single target healing. In order to heal, you had to hit them with the spell. It could be hard to aim and good healers were able to do it in the chaos of a fight. I know it's not an MMO but Ana from Overwatch is another example of single target heals in an aiming system.

    I also don't want LFD/LFR and am willing to play a sub if it can keep this game a float. We all played tab target games but we also know tab target was used because of the limitations of the time. If they are taking "newer ideas" then why not an aiming system. You arguments against is focused on other games implementation of it and not how they could use it. I bet a lot of old MMO players are used to standing still while casting spells, why should moving while casting be implemented? Being stationary while casting is one of the things that made playing a caster different from archer and melee.
  • [quote quote=4103]<blockquote>
    <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-terabdo-or-more-like-gw2/page/2/#post-4065" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
    It does not matter that you were raised with it or not. And BTW it does not add extra depth it takes depth away. Look at Healing in ESO, or Wildstar hell even Neverwinter. All AOE healing Because the targeting system. It only makes you think their is extra depth because you are doing more with your hands even though you are not really doing more other than making sure your mouse is pointed at a target. You can have more depth by having Tab Targeting WITH almost all your spells being able to be cast on the move. Yes you wouldnt be aiming BUT you would be throwing spells at different targets on the move.

    Also you can say what ever you want. They are aiming for a target audience. The Old school MMORPG Players. Most of whom playing Tab Targeting, They also paid Subscriptions, they also dont need LFD/LFR tools. They are designing that game because they know that market is there. They are just taking newer content and newer ideas and not trying to focus on the fly bye players.

    </blockquote>
    I thought you played Tera? Tera had targeted heals.

    Every spell mechanic in a tab target game can be mimicked in an aiming system. Just because some games did it one way doesn’t mean others can’t do things differently.

    As i said, Tera had target heals. Darkfall had single target healing. In order to heal, you had to hit them with the spell. It could be hard to aim and good healers were able to do it in the chaos of a fight. I know it’s not an MMO but Ana from Overwatch is another example of single target heals in an aiming system.

    I also don’t want LFD/LFR and am willing to play a sub if it can keep this game a float. We all played tab target games but we also know tab target was used because of the limitations of the time. If they are taking “newer ideas” then why not an aiming system. You arguments against is focused on other games implementation of it and not how they could use it. I bet a lot of old MMO players are used to standing still while casting spells, why should moving while casting be implemented? Being stationary while casting is one of the things that made playing a caster different from archer and melee.

    [/quote]

    My wife was the healer and she hated it. I was playing Brawler because when playing with her I always tank like I do in FFXIV. She always had to use her AOE heals because she was having issues targeting. Yet in FFXIV and in WOW she is a great healer, in Tera she sucked, hell in ESO she played a DPS because she hated how Tera was. We played all but 3 hours. Hell riders of icarus might be the best way to go because you can do both tab and action combat. Even though they say with Melee it was best to do action combat I was good with Tab.

    You people here on the forums and think you are the majority but honestly like I said in other post the majority of MMORPG players will NEVER post in a forum. They just will not play the game, its also easy to get an idea for that market just by looking at the numbers that play these games. Hell look at any of the mutligaming guilds. You will see WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, and RIFT have more players than ESO, Tera, BDO and Neverwinter which are the big 4 Action Combat games. I am not saying that the Action Combat games suck or are not valid games. What I am saying is there is a smaller population to these games, even if you take out WOW FFXIV, SWTOR and Rift still have more activity than ESO, Tera, BDO and Neverwinter. If I break it down more and look at my friends who play MMORPGs today, some tried ESO and Neverwinter, I played all 4 but none of us based around the combat setup didnt like it. Hell if ArcheAge was not P2W we would be there, because the tab target combat. O and we all play either WOW, SWTOR or FFXIV.

    Again maybe having both Tab Target and Action combat is the best way to go. But what will we lose in development time trying to make everyone happy? Will making everyone happy end up like every other game costing us in the end making this a low pop game? This is why I say, the choice was made for Tab Target. I say deal with it, stop talking about it and wait until they release Alpha to see what it is really like. Then lets have some serious discussion.
  • [quote quote=4109]
    My wife was the healer and she hated it. I was playing Brawler because when playing with her I always tank like I do in FFXIV. She always had to use her AOE heals because she was having issues targeting. Yet in FFXIV and in WOW she is a great healer, in Tera she sucked, hell in ESO she played a DPS because she hated how Tera was. We played all but 3 hours. Hell riders of icarus might be the best way to go because you can do both tab and action combat. Even though they say with Melee it was best to do action combat I was good with Tab.

    You people here on the forums and think you are the majority but honestly like I said in other post the majority of MMORPG players will NEVER post in a forum. They just will not play the game, its also easy to get an idea for that market just by looking at the numbers that play these games. Hell look at any of the mutligaming guilds. You will see WOW, FFXIV, SWTOR, and RIFT have more players than ESO, Tera, BDO and Neverwinter which are the big 4 Action Combat games. I am not saying that the Action Combat games suck or are not valid games. What I am saying is there is a smaller population to these games, even if you take out WOW FFXIV, SWTOR and Rift still have more activity than ESO, Tera, BDO and Neverwinter. If I break it down more and look at my friends who play MMORPGs today, some tried ESO and Neverwinter, I played all 4 but none of us based around the combat setup didnt like it. Hell if ArcheAge was not P2W we would be there, because the tab target combat. O and we all play either WOW, SWTOR or FFXIV.

    Again maybe having both Tab Target and Action combat is the best way to go. But what will we lose in development time trying to make everyone happy? Will making everyone happy end up like every other game costing us in the end making this a low pop game? This is why I say, the choice was made for Tab Target. I say deal with it, stop talking about it and wait until they release Alpha to see what it is really like. Then lets have some serious discussion.

    [/quote]

    Link your guild.

    I don't like neverwinter or ESOs combat either. Maybe this is the problem. Most tab target games usually are the same but games that we categorize as action combat can be completely different. Wildstar, Tera, Neverwinter, and BDO have completely different combat systems. None of the action combat games we have talked about handle combat the same way. Wildstar and Tera try to use traditional tanking systems but even then they are different. Tera has tanks using active abilities like block and dodge to avoid damage while Wildstar does things closer to tab target games with no active defense. BDO doesn't even use tanks for pve content.

    This argument is like someone coming up to you and saying they hate MMOs because they played Runescape. Yes, runescape is a MMO but it's completely different from Wow.


    I think you are just lying at this point.

    http://igcritic.com/most-played-mmorpg-games-of-2016/

    I don't think we have a big enough sample size of MMOs to say what people like. Just because wow has tab target doesn't mean that's why people like it. Wows popularity is most likely due to it's age, quality, and the ridiculous amount of content it's been able to build up. How many tab target games have also failed over the years?
  • http://www.grievancegaming.org/g3-forums

    I am not going to say the action combat games are not active. They are, BUT during peak time for Games FFXIV, Rift, SWTOR, and WOW have more active members than ESO, BDO, Neverwinter in our TS channels add to that these forums are more active. I am not saying that Action combat is bad, BUT it is not as popular as a handful of people on the forums here like to make it out to be. I also tend to look at the action combat players I know they tend not to stay in games for long periods of time. That is often because the type of player that play action combat games. Me I played FFXIV for years even if I take breaks, WOW 10 years, UO 5 years, SWG 2 years. I did play others but I tend to try games out for periods of time if they dont catch me I dont stay, Like EQ didnt keep my attention vs UO.

    You can say I am Lying all you want. I have a far greater understanding of the MMO Population that most people think. It's because I talk to people consistently. For example the reason why MMORPGs have failed is not that they have tab target or action combat, Often times its they cost over $100 Million many $250 Million or more. They cannot make back their investment on subs unless they end up with several Million subs that stay. They Model their game after WOW expecting to be the next WOW. You cannot do this. WOW didnt just happen and have everything it has today day 1, it also didnt have the marketing. It was people like me that brought about 15 people in to the game. They brought friends, their friends brought friends and so on. The same marketing strategy that AOC is using. Yea Rift kind of failed but it also was a shoe box vs WOW, AND it didnt listen to that majority of its players it listened to the forum players who wanted large raids.

    I am done with this subject because the Developers already selected Tab Targeting as their model. That is who they want to keep happy.

    Q: When i show alot of people the current video footage of Ashes of Creation, often people comment on how dull the Combat looks, and i personally agree, it could use some tweaking, also alot of people consider “tab-target” quite an outdated form of combat, and that a fluid action-based combat is a better direction for games to go in. Whats your thoughts on the current combat system?
    <em><strong>A: This is the downside of transparency. When I decided that our studios would involve the community in every aspect of our development, we understood that there would be needed a level of trust in the community that what they are seeing is not the final product. It is meant to show our progression and development. All too often, an indie developer moves to crowdsourcing a game, prior to having a working model in any system…Basically with only a concept they manage to raise money. I wanted to show more than that, I wanted to show actual production and investment from our studios, BEFORE we asked the community to bring our project to life. In regards to tab targeting, while our combat system is not completely fleshed out, I can say that our tab-targeting will involve positioning and mobility and that we will have more in-depth blogs on this system as our development progresses</strong></em>

    Yes they are right about Transparency, people BITCH too much about what they chosen just like P2P AND when they say no Automated LFG tools. They will end up hearing people time and time and time again about these topic. Honestly these should be topics that are auto deleted because a choice was made and that is the end of it. Making post after post after post talking about going a different direction is just a waste of everyones time even the developers. Its just like my kids when I say we are getting pizza tonight and they go on and on and on about they want McDonald's. At some point its just STFU a choice was made deal with it.
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