2. BDO's idea of fighting mechanics as far as using different key combinations to achieve the desired skill was fun, but the lack of cool downs on CC skills made the fights very much about getting the first CC and perma-locking your opponent. Before so many people figured this out the PvP was fun, but afterwards... my least favourite PvP experience. I'd almost like to see a simpler design however in terms of skill activation, there were times when the key combos didn't quite work and you ended up using other skills in their place.
3. I'd like to see defined roles for classes (from one of their interviews I believe they already are doing this, but it's such a big issue in today's MMOs that it has to be mentioned). Homogenised classes are extremely boring because every fight turns out the same. ESO has gone through some various stages of this, at one point you'd see everyone running magic builds, then in a further patch you'd see stamina everywhere, then tanks on every class etc. BDO is one example of that now, everyone stacks AP or evasion builds and it works for pretty much every class. You don't end up needing to consider tactics at all because the meta for everything in terms of gear and builds is the same. I do understand that they've already talked about this regarding classes and sub classes and I think the idea is pretty cool, they just want to be very careful about allowing everyone to do everything on every class as well as everyone else.
3. I'd like to see defined roles for classes (from one of their interviews I believe they already are doing this, but it's such a big issue in today's MMOs that it has to be mentioned). Homogenised classes are extremely boring because every fight turns out the same. ESO has gone through some various stages of this, at one point you'd see everyone running magic builds, then in a further patch you'd see stamina everywhere, then tanks on every class etc.. You don't end up needing to consider tactics at all because the meta for everything in terms of gear and builds is the same.
3. Last, I decided to touch on it after all... ping/desynch. Proper skill cool downs, CC immunities/diminishing returns etc need to be in place or it's too hard for everyone higher than 100 ping to get involved. Sometimes people with higher ping will get hit with attacks they can't see coming, due to the nature of this fights need to have a window for recovery or it cuts out a massive chunk of the player base from PvP.
So from the video we can see it will be more like ESO? Good :)
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-terabdo-or-more-like-gw2/page/6/#post-23079">Adamjy12345 wrote:</a></div>I apologize if this has already been postwd. Check out this video. It will explain what the current plan for combat is: <span class="embed-youtube" style="text-align:center; display: block;">[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIVnt8SDdrY?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent]</span> Starting at 4:14
There are heavily divided opinions between action and tab target combat, so why dont make both but on diffrent servers? Because in the end if the team decides for one, they will loose a large portion of their potential customers, while making a second version of the game with other combat solution wouldnt cost close to as much as creating a whole new game but increase the income significantly and at the same time making everyone happy. win - win
<em>Apologies if this has already been asked/covered.</em>
When it comes to combat, I've seen a lot of back and forth regarding the targeting system. While I'm interested in the development of targeting mechanics, I'd really like to know more about other foundational aspects of combat as well. I don't recall hearing or seeing anything in the way of "auto" or "basic" attacks. During the gameplay sessions (that I've seen), enemy creatures are typically 1-shot or are being fought at a camera angle where I'm unable to tell if the player is "auto-attacking" or actively chaining abilities together.
To clarify, my definition of "auto-attacking" or "basic" attacks is where a player can engage in combat without using any active or clickable abilities on their spell bar (where active abilities usually consume resources like mana or energy and basic attacks do not).
The hate coming at the action system there lol... Personally I wanna see a choice. Simply to please tab targeters and action combat fans. DDO sorta did this in that you could lock on or free swing sadly the free swing was rough with the hit boxes. I also find Tera to be the closest to real action based combat but I haven't played a few of those mmo's.
It actually takes a bit of effort to actually tank requires proper timing and reading an enemies actions. Simply because it might look shallow to you doesn't mean it is. Just how something looking complicated might actually be simply once you figure it out.
@Helzbelz As for your wife being a bad healer in the action combat area it sound like it's because of reaction time/ latency potentially too. I had no issues controlling the field as a lancer but I can see where distance targeting could become an issue if your not quick and good at judging the shot. So a mixed system makes more sense for this grey area for those who simply can't handle the quick snaps effectively.(allowing both tab style and action combat.)
I really don't want to see this games potential devolve into tab/click buttons/move on/repeat. I'd rather see read situation/prepare(tab or action)/study enemy/engage/tactics/move on/repeat. A little extra feel to it, you should suffer a bit for misjudging an enemy or misreading a situation. Not just run in a circle around your targeting clicking number keys.
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited are all flexible and balanced enough to be pretty satisfactory in every context.
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited are all flexible and balanced enough to be pretty satisfactory in every context.
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
Steer as far away from BDO as humanely possible. Action combat is amazing and fun to play, but it isnt full realized for a PVP MMO. The desync issues while manageable are not prone to a fun or condusive pvp environment. BDO looks pretty, but at its core its a flawed pvp game. All of these people saying you have the same number of skills forgets that nearly all of BDO pvp and PVe is rotation of a few core skills over and over and over. PVP is relagated to CC spam until a target is dead (no healing save for two classes, who are more often that not spamming damage and not healing and time spammed potions). This wouldnt be so bad if the game was balanced but oh dear lord is it not. When a game is released an the developers have to go back to rebalance all character loads and pvp AS A WHOLE as they are currently doing in korea, dont use that as a base line for a new pvp game in creation. That is a horrible idea
BDO combat sucked. It was a flashy light show on fast rails. Steven already said AoC will be similar to gw2 which had great combat imo. The downed state sucked and combos were boring, theyre ability system was li iting too but the feel of combat was top notch in gw2
BDO combat sucked. It was a flashy light show on fast rails. Steven already said AoC will be similar to gw2 which had great combat imo. The downed state sucked and combos were boring, theyre ability system was li iting too but the feel of combat was top notch in gw2
I never played BDO myself, for many reasons, but I did really enjoy the combat in GW2. The combat system felt a lot like Diablo III‘s, where you started with a handful of skills, gradually unlocking dozens more, but could never use more than a few in combat at any time. This forced you to make very specific build choices which made your Ranger or Mesmer or Engineer much more likely to be different from someone else’s. Even as a newer MMO, I didn't think ESO did combat so well.
I dont mind what system we get aslong as the fights are long
I see alot of people talking about BDO the combat is fun for me in there but there are a few things they need to fix. 1 of them is the 1 shotting finaly afther 4 years there changing the system and also finaly buffing underpowered classes.
Hopefully this game wont have this class is good at a and this class is good at b in PVP because around 4 classes in BDO are on cannon duty or wont even get invited to PVP guilds that are mainly into node wars. because there main focus is 1 on 1 and not group pvp.
The best combat systems I had the pleasure to play recently in a PvP MMO were, in order: 1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot). 2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights. 3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights. 4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited have been all tested in relatively wide PvP/siege arenas, and worked quite well.
Man am I that old? I haven't played Tera, BDO, or GW2 Can we get some relateable examples for us old foggies? i.e. Netherwinter Nights, Lineage, Asheron's Call, EQ, DAoC, UO..
Thanks in Advance,
Welphgryn Representative of the Apparent Senior Citizens Gaming Club
Comments
<blockquote><div class="d4p-bbp-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/combat-terabdo-or-more-like-gw2/page/6/#post-23079">Adamjy12345 wrote:</a></div>I apologize if this has already been postwd. Check out this video. It will explain what the current plan for combat is:
<span class="embed-youtube" style="text-align:center; display: block;">[youtube https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIVnt8SDdrY?version=3&rel=1&fs=1&autohide=2&showsearch=0&showinfo=1&iv_load_policy=1&wmode=transparent]</span>
Starting at 4:14
</blockquote>
Because in the end if the team decides for one, they will loose a large portion of their potential customers, while making a second version of the game with other combat solution wouldnt cost close to as much as creating a whole new game but increase the income significantly and at the same time making everyone happy.
win - win
(one can dream)
<em>Apologies if this has already been asked/covered.</em>
When it comes to combat, I've seen a lot of back and forth regarding the targeting system. While I'm interested in the development of targeting mechanics, I'd really like to know more about other foundational aspects of combat as well. I don't recall hearing or seeing anything in the way of "auto" or "basic" attacks. During the gameplay sessions (that I've seen), enemy creatures are typically 1-shot or are being fought at a camera angle where I'm unable to tell if the player is "auto-attacking" or actively chaining abilities together.
To clarify, my definition of "auto-attacking" or "basic" attacks is where a player can engage in combat without using any active or clickable abilities on their spell bar (where active abilities usually consume resources like mana or energy and basic attacks do not).
Thanks in advance for any feedback here!
It actually takes a bit of effort to actually tank requires proper timing and reading an enemies actions. Simply because it might look shallow to you doesn't mean it is. Just how something looking complicated might actually be simply once you figure it out.
@Helzbelz As for your wife being a bad healer in the action combat area it sound like it's because of reaction time/ latency potentially too. I had no issues controlling the field as a lancer but I can see where distance targeting could become an issue if your not quick and good at judging the shot. So a mixed system makes more sense for this grey area for those who simply can't handle the quick snaps effectively.(allowing both tab style and action combat.)
I really don't want to see this games potential devolve into tab/click buttons/move on/repeat.
I'd rather see read situation/prepare(tab or action)/study enemy/engage/tactics/move on/repeat.
A little extra feel to it, you should suffer a bit for misjudging an enemy or misreading a situation. Not just run in a circle around your targeting clicking number keys.
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited are all flexible and balanced enough to be pretty satisfactory in every context.
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited are all flexible and balanced enough to be pretty satisfactory in every context.
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited
I see alot of people talking about BDO the combat is fun for me in there but there are a few things they need to fix. 1 of them is the 1 shotting finaly afther 4 years there changing the system and also finaly buffing underpowered classes.
Hopefully this game wont have this class is good at a and this class is good at b in PVP because around 4 classes in BDO are on cannon duty or wont even get invited to PVP guilds that are mainly into node wars. because there main focus is 1 on 1 and not group pvp.
1) Age of wushu: tab-target, no dodge, paper-stone-scissors type counters, limited heal, long fights (no 1-shot).
2) Skyforge: Tab target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, no heal, no counters 4-5 hits fights.
3) Tera: reticle target, limited (skill based) parry/dodge, heals, no counters, 3-4 hits fights.
4) Black desert (pre-awakening): small AOE target (just hit in a general direction), full parry/dodge, limited counters, 1-hit fights.
Of all this Age of Wushu was initially what was the most near to a martial art experience: you had to empty your mind and understand the psychology of the opponent to win. Pay2win + unconsidered OP expansions made it much less so.
I think the most fun experience overall in fighting, all considered, was given by Skyforge. Despite being tab-target, everything else is extremely dynamic and situational-awareness focused, and it's a system that is fun and never boring in PvE as well as balanced in PvP. OTOH, it plaid a lot on the concept of the characters being ACTUAL immortal gods, so that the only "defeat" they could really face was an overwhelming situation that could simply not be beaten, no matter how many tries one put into that. As such, dying was "cheap", and a viable strategy for some PvE experiences: it plaid much on letting the players deciding the rate of acceptable damage versus the automatic healing they know how to achieve. In that sense, it was very "situational awareness", as, to win, it was necessary not to "dodge", but to keep the balance of damage/divine healing active. Sort of a completely different experience with respect to all the other games I have seen, and sort of refreshing as well, but don't know how well it would translate in a system where death is "hard" (i.e. failing of a dungeon), and so, your aim is that of minimizing or nullifying the incoming damage rather than managing it correctly.
Then Tera: if it wasn't completely destroyed as a MMO long time ago, it would be still one of the most pleasurable things to play, even if I see the abundance of skills a bit "old school" nowadays. Skyforge and Black Desert provide a much more streamlined experience with much less hotbuttons and cooldowns. Even Age of Wushu, with its 750+ skill was more "organized" thanks to the concept of "kung fu styles".
BDO provided a quite fun experience prior to the recent expansions; it was already the most hack-and-slash system of the four, but at least it had the most stylish hack-and-slash around. With the addition of the "awakenings", it has mostly become a 1-button fest.
I didn't cite two great games for very specific reasons: Vindicuts and Blade and Soul. Vindictus has probably the best PvE combat, but I really think the complexity of the system wouldn't fare well in an open world PvP MMO. A simple arena PvP would already seem problematic. As for Blade and Soul, I would say that it was nearly as good as AOW for PvP, but it lacked really a lot of luster in PvE, especially big-content raid PvE. I also don't think it would fare as well in massive PvP (e.g. sieges), while the systems I cited have been all tested in relatively wide PvP/siege arenas, and worked quite well.
Thanks in Advance,
Welphgryn
Representative of the Apparent Senior Citizens Gaming Club