Wall of text incoming you can skip to the tl;dr at the bottom if you wish.
I just want to weigh in as a pvp'er myself. While i enjoy all aspects of the game(crafting,pve,pvp,etc) i love a fight and a challenge. I actually have played one of the most toxic pvp mmo's to date in my opinion being the original darkfall. I loved that game and no i was not a newbie ganker (which 90% of the base was). Yes i remember my first two weeks trying to learn to play and my first day a ganker came with his clan and one shotted me and took everything i just got. Honestly yes these players are the reason darkfall fell apart after that adding the fact that the dev team really didn't keep their end of the bargain to. Did i quit cause i got ganked pretty much everyday starting? Nope. i found a small clan and left the newb area as i realized that people camped it. I got stronger and better at the game and wound up leading a clan that held land for a long time with just 30 of us then we merged into what would wind up being one of the final big power blocs of the game black.
So for what it's worth darkfall's player base killed the game newbie camping cause hey it's a pvp game so get good mindset which meant no new players coming in and old ones leaving cause there is no more challenge as the numbers died off so did the vets.But there was really nothing else in the game but pvp(no joke). At least here the devs actually have played games understand what the players are looking for and most importantly actually care and with being a private company they can do whats right and not do what can we profit off of. So with the system they have now i think it will be a good balance. I hope there is no way to cheese the system. Cause while darkfall had the same kind of flagging(no stat loss like this one and everyone was lootable) but red flagging was kinda a joke as it only stopped you going into npc cities as they are not needed if you have/know clans you can use their stuff.
Here is the one reason i think this will not be an endless gankbox. There is more goals then just killing everyone you see. There are cities to build up crafting is more then just just get a couple things learn every craft and fight. you can't be every skill in the game. granted there are a lot of pvp goals as well but as for meaning less ganking i don't see it being a huge issue in this game. Granted i could be wrong but considering the corruption being what it is as long as it's well done i think the amount of grieving pvp will be low. now caravan raiding and holding a node and such on the other hand? I advise making friends or joining a clan that has pvpers in it or you most likely will have a bad time.
TL;DR You have to remember pve WILL drive this game without people hunting,gathering, and crafting nothing will grow nodes will not happen and most importantly to the pvp crowd gear will not be made. So we really do have a good balance here unlike darkfall. In fact with out pve and non combat roles in this gamer you will easily miss out on as it looks 70% of the game.
@EnderOfSouls I think you're actually looking at 3-5% of people considering that the Hyper PvE people are the left extreme of a bell curve.
The Devs have already said that their aim is to create a niche game so nothing that's said will change the design of the game in any drastic way.
What can and will change through testing is degrees, for example; what gets dropped and by whom, how much gets dropped, corruption gained, stats dropped per level of corruption.
But note that I said through testing, people moaning for a different game won't get it. All this thread accomplishes is keeping the bitching and trolling to this thread.
When it becomes time to test OWPvP and corruption I'm sure other threads will be created and this one will be forgotten but in the meantime let's get this to 2000 posts.
@EnderOfSouls I think you're actually looking at 3-5% of people considering that the Hyper PvE people are the left
I agree. It’s like I said in this same thread way back in 2017, this game will cater to PvE players, there will be raids, dungeons, quests and everything else you’d expect from an MMO. Hell PvP gear is PvE gear.
But why shouldn’t there be some risk if I choose to venture out into the wild to look for those rare materials that could possibly make me a lot of money or a powerful item ? You wouldn’t expect to waltz through a raid and just loot the boss chest without and any fight so the open world should be the same to some degree.
I class my self as a PVPer not a PKer. So if I see a dude really going at his wood or chipping away at that ore I’m not gonna bother him unless he bothers me first. I know a lot of people who have this outlook. Yes from games like BDO, ESO, AoConan, GW2. All these had or have a strong roaming pvp community, people looking for MEANINGFUL fights not a free kill then stat reductions from said kill !!
It's totally about MMOs making big promises of "controlled gank boxes", over and over, but never being able to deliver on that. Partly because that is a very player to player subjective definition and because humans will constantly find ways around restrictions.
Promises for "balanced" random PVP have been seen over and over but can never satisfy enough players to keep the game strong. All you can do is look at the next set of assurances and hope that developers can deliver...
@Bringslite Yes promises have been made and when testing is being done we can affect the variables, but not the constants. It's like math the quadratic equation will always be the quadratic equation but a,b,c and x can change.
@Bringslite Yes promises have been made and when testing is being done we can affect the variables, but not the constants. It's like math the quadratic equation will always be the quadratic equation but a,b,c and x can change.
Totally agree and I'm not one advocating for no random PVP. I like the sense of risk involved. I like there to be places I might go to explore/gather/etc... where there is danger beyond NPC mobs.
I am just hopefully pointing out that the PVP Averse portion of the MMORPG market have heard all of this before and no amount of logical points about balancing during Alpha stages will convince most of them to assume otherwise than a result that is sub par of their expectations.
It really can't when for some, getting ganked once is too much, getting ganked 1 time a day is too much and so on.
Point being that unless OUR attitudes change about what is acceptable PVP (all around) there will never be a really successful sandbox or "sandbox elements" game that is really a AAA performer.
LMAO I am in no way being hostile. You're the one who started the banter of who will be looting whom. I am just continuing to play with that concept.
Ah, I see. I used the second person due to sloppy writing when discussing looting rather than the third person, and you mistook it for a barb.
Honestly, we are very unlikely to ever meet in game, as the chances of you playing in the same region (OCE), same server, or even adjacent nodes are extremely unlikely. Given your aversion to PvP, I highly doubt I will be meeting up with you in the arenas either.
I'll go back and edit the wording to keep it in line with the rest of the post.
"Simple banditry" of individuals and mules is inherently discouraged by
Corruption and only being able to loot resources, rather than full loot
of gear and funds.
Discouraged or perhaps balanced, but not outright restricted. If Intrepid Studios was truly against banditry, they would remove resource looting altogether except under certain conditions (like a war declaration effecting both bandit and victim).
Keep in mind that Ultima Online is one of the inspirations for this game. While IS certainly wants to reduce the frequency and severity of ganking within AoC, they still want to maintain a certain element of danger for the players and freedom for those who are prone to undertake a criminal path in their gaming.
If they balance it correctly, banditry will be an occasional hazard that gatherers must plan and prepare for, but not a constant disruption that drives the more pacifist players from the game.
You have now, for some reason, added "heavily" as a
qualifier.
Of course, my opinion and expression of said opinion is sure to change and evolve as I absorb and ponder new information. This is a dicsussion, not a debate. I can merrily change the goal posts as I please as I come to form a more nuanced opinion on the matter.
I thank you for providing me an opportunity to blather on and bloviate so frequently. I am rather entranced by the sight of my own written statements (the online version of loving the sound of my own voice), and am only to eager to inflict my meandering diatribes upon this lovely community.
Yep. I'm really enjoying the discussions. And it's fine for goal posts to move. We just need to check back in and be sure we both understand where the new perimeters are.
I agree, discouraged is not the same thing as restricted.
If I'm not in the mood to level my character -sometimes my goal is to build or decorate or party with friends- some other player should not be able to force me into activities that level my character. Which is precisely why RPers typically want separate servers designated for RPers. And also why RPers are concerned about how the Ashes devs plan to support RPers in the game.
I don't know that anyone has asked for PvP combat to be totally removed from the game.
It's a competitive world, by saying "I don't wan't people to pvp me so remove it"
You are saying "All those who want free open world PvP just don't deserve to have their game and I do"
News flash, the amount of games with these kind of PvP mechanics are nigh non-existant, which is WHY ashes is so popular.
That is the reason everyone wants it, so why the hell are you even here waiting for it?
There is literally 100+ mmos for you and like 0 for us, except this one and you guys are even TRYING to take that away. (you won't though because the creator is actually intelligent)
Your selfishness and self-entitlement is unbelievable, this game isn't for you, go play one that is, we don't have that luxury.
Thing is: free open world PVP games, that have sandbox elements (player crafted items primarily) usually fail. The same old story. Wolves eat the sheep until they are extinct. Then wolves turn on wolves and wolves start leaving. Then servers start dying, and so on it goes.
I read that AoC will have gear drops from mobs so that may not apply as seriously as other games, we'll see.
If I take your meaning of "Free PVP" wrong then plz forgive.
I don't recall anyone on these forums arguing for the total removal of PvP from the game such that PvPers would not be able to have the PvP combat experiences they enjoy. Some people have advocated strongly for separate servers - which is highly, highly, highly unlikely to happen. Every playstyle here is being selfish - we all want to be able to enjoy this game. What most people are here for is the Node system and how that has the great potential to end endgame and instead endlessly build up and tear down cities in order to continually churn out new and different content.
So, no, we can't just go a play another game like that because they don't exist yet.
Thing is: free open world PVP games, that have sandbox elements (player crafted items primarily) usually fail. The same old story. Wolves eat the sheep until they are extinct. Then wolves turn on wolves and wolves start leaving. Then servers start dying, and so on it goes.
I read that AoC will have gear drops from mobs so that may not apply as seriously as other games, we'll see.
If I take your meaning of "Free PVP" wrong then plz forgive.
They don't fail, there has been almost none of them.
The ones that do "Fail" isn't the fault of the game, it is that a later date the developers add a P2W option, like serious buying of power that destroys the entire game, probably their goal all along.
(There was an ancient game I used to play that I and others worked years on becoming the strongest, then they added a P2W option and it destroyed the whole game over night, after it being immensly popular and working for years.
Despite low tech I'd still be playing that game if they didn't do this.)
The ones that didn't die from this, like dark age of camelot simply died because they were ancient, nothing wrong with them.
So please don't make this argument, you might not have known which is fair, but I've told you now and I'm sick of seeing it, it spreads misinformation.
The Free PvP playstyle is the closest thing to a real world there is, real life, you don't go around stabbing random people IRL, but it's possible, just like you can talk and trade with these same people.
In wow you cannot talk or trade with the horde or attack the alliance if ur alliance, for example.
This allows for the game to have REAL highwaymen, bandits, assassins, bounty hunters, mercenaries for protection, divine crusaders who do protect for the sake of justice.
^ Infinite dynamic content made by the players themselves, not any kind of defined system and being one who experienced it before, it is pure heaven, it is a pure life adventure that never ever gets boring, and I've been looking for a game like that old one for about 10+ years.
In a world where it's not possible, it's just not real, it's just a game where reality is constricted, so once again.
If you don't want that kind of free-you-can-do-anything game, just go WoW or GW2 or blade and soul, ect, ect, dno why you waiting for this game.
So please stop being so monumentally selfish and actually put my dream in even a tiny 0.00001% of jepordy just because you can't pick out of 100+ MMO's.
We got nowhere else to go, you got plenty of places to go, so what is your problem? God complex or something?
Ashes is not a free-you-can-do-anything game. And, again, most people are not here because they are waiting for a free-for-all PvP combat game. That's not what Ashes is.
Most people are here for the Node system. Which includes PvX to drive world changes.
Ashes is not a free-you-can-do-anything game. And, again, most people are not here because they are waiting for a free-for-all PvP combat game. That's not what Ashes is.
Most people are here for the Node system. Which includes PvX to drive world changes.
It was since development, I've not seen that change, the node system, you fight over it.
Theirfore it's possible.
From what I've seen you can fight anywhere besides places like cities and starter zones, the PK system seems to suggest it's like that old game I was talking about, infact It sounds directly inspired from it, with even the same terminology.
The node system IS pvp, you fight over it, the full PvP was announced months before they even mentioned the node system and people were hyped.
I remember clearly being hyped and everyone I talked to, then we saw the nodes system and that was just an excellent bonus.
yet people are whining about that too, that they don't wanna be pvp'd whilst others are fighting for nodes.
Basically everyone is just a coward who can't handle anything they don't like and need a safe space everywhere, it's tiresome.
I backed this game in kick starter with the hope that maybe the gankers wouldn't find it...It appears I was wrong.
Let me start by saying I have no problem with meaningful or consensual pvp and look forward to participating in epic battles for nodes, castles, and caravans. But OWPVP is game cancer
It appears these gankers/pk'ers/griefers what ever you want to call them have come out of the woodwork. These people could care less about any consequences for killing other players, they kill simply to ruin their victims play experience. It gives them some kind of sick pleasure to know that the victims play session has been ruined because of their actions regardless of any loss they may experience. If you want any evidence of this just take a look at high sec space in Eve online where the penalty for ganking another players ship is instant destruction of the gankers ship by CONCORD (the police) you would think this would deter them, you would be wrong it happens hundreds of times a day they just buy another cheap ship with alot of guns and go out and do it again. These people will not even venture into Low or null sec where pvp is expected because the players there are prepared for pvp and may give them a good fight not an easy target.
Seeing the number of these types in the forums and discord I really have lost all hope that this game will be playable. The only hope initially is to find a server where they have not showed up in numbers strong enough to effect game play. But as they chase all the victims from one server they will move to the next until there are no more playable servers.
I will play in Beta since I already paid for it, but the first time I am ganked while picking flowers will be the end of my AoC career and will return to Eve null sec. I will not be the source of these types jollies
Please IS reconsider servers with OWPVP shut off for the sake of your game. I no this will piss off the gankers/PK'ers/griefers but it is the only way to insure the future health of your game. The only reason they are against this is because they will lose their victims and source of their warped pleasure. There is really nothing else you can do as far as mechanics to stop these people because they just don't care about your attempts to curb their "fun".
Even the PvEers who want a separate PvE server aren't really complaining about battlegrounds: sieges and caravans.
It is possible to fight other players pretty much anywhere, but it is not free-for-all. There are penalties for killing non-combatants. And there are restrictions against attacking groups of players you are aligned with - for instance, during a siege, it is impossible to attack fellow citizens of your home Node. So.. again, it's not a free-you-can-do-anything game.
The Node system is PvX: PvE to build and progress and PvP to capture or delevel. Even defense is both PvE and PvP.
"Full PvP" has never been a thing for Ashes. What you were hyped about and what you "remember" are subjective. I guess you can share the quote and source of whatever you think it was that announced "full PvP".
If you are tired of the people here sharing their views and desires, you can always go find your own safe space that isn't so tiresome.
It appears these gankers/pk'ers/griefers what ever you want to call them have come out of the woodwork. These people could care less about any consequences for killing other players, they kill simply to ruin their victims play experience. It gives them some kind of sick pleasure to know that the victims play session has been ruined because of their actions regardless of any loss they may experience. If you want any evidence of this just take a look at high sec space in Eve online where the penalty for ganking another players ship is instant destruction of the gankers ship by CONCORD (the police) you would think this would deter them, you would be wrong it happens hundreds of times a day they just buy another cheap ship with alot of guns and go out and do it again. These people will not even venture into Low or null sec where pvp is expected because the players there are prepared for pvp and may give them a good fight not an easy target.
I actually prefer character v character combat rather than player v player combat. I play RPGs for the story and character acting; not for the challenge and thrills of combat. Your post reminds me of a person from the Revival forums who was all, "Of course, imbecile! The whole point of Player v Player is to ruin your opponents' day and make them feel bad!"
I'm not really interested in competing against other players. I'm interested in coordinating and cooperating with other players even to tell a story about epic conflict between our characters - like I used to do in table-top D&D. So, if I've got other stuff I'm trying to accomplish before I log out tonight, I'm happy to schedule hours of "PvP combat" tomorrow night. You know... basic, good ole sportsmanship. But, since most PvPers aren't into that, I typically prefer to play on PvE-only servers.
(But, again, we'll have to see if Corruption is truly a sufficient deterrent for the kind of encounters with PvPers that I abhor.)
Thing is: free open world PVP games, that have sandbox elements (player crafted items primarily) usually fail. The same old story. Wolves eat the sheep until they are extinct. Then wolves turn on wolves and wolves start leaving. Then servers start dying, and so on it goes.
I read that AoC will have gear drops from mobs so that may not apply as seriously as other games, we'll see.
If I take your meaning of "Free PVP" wrong then plz forgive.
They don't fail, there has been almost none of them.
The ones that do "Fail" isn't the fault of the game, it is that a later date the developers add a P2W option, like serious buying of power that destroys the entire game, probably their goal all along.
(There was an ancient game I used to play that I and others worked years on becoming the strongest, then they added a P2W option and it destroyed the whole game over night, after it being immensly popular and working for years.
Despite low tech I'd still be playing that game if they didn't do this.)
The ones that didn't die from this, like dark age of camelot simply died because they were ancient, nothing wrong with them.
So please don't make this argument, you might not have known which is fair, but I've told you now and I'm sick of seeing it, it spreads misinformation.
The Free PvP playstyle is the closest thing to a real world there is, real life, you don't go around stabbing random people IRL, but it's possible, just like you can talk and trade with these same people.
In wow you cannot talk or trade with the horde or attack the alliance if ur alliance, for example.
This allows for the game to have REAL highwaymen, bandits, assassins, bounty hunters, mercenaries for protection, divine crusaders who do protect for the sake of justice.
^ Infinite dynamic content made by the players themselves, not any kind of defined system and being one who experienced it before, it is pure heaven, it is a pure life adventure that never ever gets boring, and I've been looking for a game like that old one for about 10+ years.
In a world where it's not possible, it's just not real, it's just a game where reality is constricted, so once again.
If you don't want that kind of free-you-can-do-anything game, just go WoW or GW2 or blade and soul, ect, ect, dno why you waiting for this game.
So please stop being so monumentally selfish and actually put my dream in even a tiny 0.00001% of jepordy just because you can't pick out of 100+ MMO's.
We got nowhere else to go, you got plenty of places to go, so what is your problem? God complex or something?
Edit: I decided to rewrite my response. You came across as hostile but, even so, I don't have to respond any way but my own. Sounds like you are worried that AoC will turn out differently than they have described it because of something someone may post here. It won't. It'll be much like they are saying it will. You have nothing to feel threatened by from this thread.
Discussing things is interesting though, so I would like to ask that you don't try and shut down other posters (including myself). We just enjoy talking about things and exchanging insights.
Look at 2 versions of "Darkfall" for upcoming PVP oriented games with less restrictions.
I'll be waiting to try this game. It looks like it will be great if all goals are met!
I didn't read this entire thread, but why will it not be an option for me to turn off PvP so I can't be ganked, Then turn on PvP when I want to PvP? I can see a node being contested as an automatic PvP area, but if I'm out killing mobs, why should I be forced to PvP if I don't want to...I mean, I pay for the game just like everyone else, right?
It appears these gankers/pk'ers/griefers what ever you want to call them have come out of the woodwork. These people could care less about any consequences for killing other players, they kill simply to ruin their victims play experience. It gives them some kind of sick pleasure to know that the victims play session has been ruined because of their actions regardless of any loss they may experience.
Very few of those responding in this topic can be characterized as a ganker, a pk'er, or a griefer. Even among those that are defending OWPvP in AoC, most are doing so with the expectation that the corruption system would make the game absolutely unplayable for those going on serial-murder rampages.
If you want any evidence of this just take a look at high sec space in
Eve online where the penalty for ganking another players ship is instant
destruction of the gankers ship by CONCORD (the police) you would think
this would deter them, you would be wrong it happens hundreds of times a
day they just buy another cheap ship with alot of guns and go out and
do it again.
Indeed. That is one of the reasons I firmly believe that stat penalties and other penalties associated with corruption should be on an in-game timer, and not just be erased with a few consecutive deaths. Being killed in combat is a routine event for any PvP player (whether he is a ganker/griefer or not), it has zero emotional impact and does not act as a disincentive to griefing. A serial-ganker could merrily spend the entire day murdering non-combatants and just shrugging off the multiple deaths it takes to manage his corruption. His XP deficit would be deeper than a black hole, but so long as he can find a steady supply of lowbies to gank, that would not be an issue.
As for more goal-oriented murderers like myself, the corruption system should force me to balance the benefits of my actions against the penalties I will face as a result. For instance, if I plan to clear non-combatants from a rare resource deposit, I should do so knowing that I can't clear the corruption penalties by just bunny-hopping outside the nearest node to get a few quick deaths.
Seeing the number of these types in the forums and discord I really have lost all hope that this game will be playable.
Forgive my frankness, but that attitude is remarkably silly. These griefers are about as likely to be accommodated as those who are calling for PvE-only servers. They can clamour all they want about the virtues of unrestricted OWPvP, but the fact remains that Steven Sharif is on record stating that he does not want AoC to be a 'gank-box'.
I will play in Beta since I already paid for it, but the first time I am
ganked while picking flowers will be the end of my AoC career and will
return to Eve null sec.
Given that alpha and beta will be a time in which people like myself will be going on murder rampages to test out and improve the corruption system, I foresee a very short AoC 'career' for you. Best of luck in Eve Online.
I didn't read this entire thread, but why will it not be an option for me to turn off PvP so I can't be ganked, Then turn on PvP when I want to PvP? I can see a node being contested as an automatic PvP area, but if I'm out killing mobs, why should I be forced to PvP if I don't want to...I mean, I pay for the game just like everyone else, right?
You can turn off PvP by staying in your Freehold.
Okay, now I am just trolling. So sorry.
In all seriousness though, the game was specifically designed to include an element of risk in most of its game play. This is central to the vision with which the game was created. If this small element of risk is unacceptable to you, then you need not worry: there is a multitude of games out there that cater to your preference.
I don't believe that players are going to choose to pay 15$/month (or more) just to log in and kill players that don't fight back. I am sure some will though, as is people, but after being corrupted/hunted dealing with being treated as a monster (would like more clarification) and random spawn locations for death when corrupted, I see a lot of those players going back to a F2P dynamic.
Also, there is no P2W so players will have to earn what they get, having the chance to drop an item knowing you might not be able to get another one would also be a deterrent.
I know there will be those that PvP and PK for thrills and do nothing else, as likely there will be PvE players that gather/craft/farm/MOB-hunt and do no (if possible) PvP.
I highly suggest playing the game before jumping on the "PvE Servers" or "Remove Corruption" bandwagons.
People seem to really be underestimating the shear number of jerks in MMO's. One player out ganking probably won't happen often, but you can bet you arse a group of 20 running around ganking all day and not having to worry about bounties because of their group size will be!
This whole discussion reminds me of twinks in WoW. For years they argued that if there were "twink only BG's" they would love that because no one enjoys being a twink and fighting non-twinks. So finally Blizz gave it to them, regular BG's became fun again, and Twinks completely died, because as we knew all along, people that twink are cowards...once the playing field was lvl, they left. You can 100% bet the same will happen in this game, but since it's open world, they will never have a reason to quit. Thousands of players will leave this game because of gankers making logging in not fun, and that is not an over estimate. It's happened before this game, it will happen to this game, and it will happen after this game. Players and game designers alike just never seem to fathom how far many players are willing to go to gank!
Comments
I just want to weigh in as a pvp'er myself. While i enjoy all aspects of the game(crafting,pve,pvp,etc) i love a fight and a challenge. I actually have played one of the most toxic pvp mmo's to date in my opinion being the original darkfall. I loved that game and no i was not a newbie ganker (which 90% of the base was). Yes i remember my first two weeks trying to learn to play and my first day a ganker came with his clan and one shotted me and took everything i just got. Honestly yes these players are the reason darkfall fell apart after that adding the fact that the dev team really didn't keep their end of the bargain to. Did i quit cause i got ganked pretty much everyday starting? Nope. i found a small clan and left the newb area as i realized that people camped it. I got stronger and better at the game and wound up leading a clan that held land for a long time with just 30 of us then we merged into what would wind up being one of the final big power blocs of the game black.
So for what it's worth darkfall's player base killed the game newbie camping cause hey it's a pvp game so get good mindset which meant no new players coming in and old ones leaving cause there is no more challenge as the numbers died off so did the vets.But there was really nothing else in the game but pvp(no joke). At least here the devs actually have played games understand what the players are looking for and most importantly actually care and with being a private company they can do whats right and not do what can we profit off of. So with the system they have now i think it will be a good balance. I hope there is no way to cheese the system. Cause while darkfall had the same kind of flagging(no stat loss like this one and everyone was lootable) but red flagging was kinda a joke as it only stopped you going into npc cities as they are not needed if you have/know clans you can use their stuff.
Here is the one reason i think this will not be an endless gankbox. There is more goals then just killing everyone you see. There are cities to build up crafting is more then just just get a couple things learn every craft and fight. you can't be every skill in the game. granted there are a lot of pvp goals as well but as for meaning less ganking i don't see it being a huge issue in this game. Granted i could be wrong but considering the corruption being what it is as long as it's well done i think the amount of grieving pvp will be low. now caravan raiding and holding a node and such on the other hand? I advise making friends or joining a clan that has pvpers in it or you most likely will have a bad time.
TL;DR You have to remember pve WILL drive this game without people hunting,gathering, and crafting nothing will grow nodes will not happen and most importantly to the pvp crowd gear will not be made. So we really do have a good balance here unlike darkfall. In fact with out pve and non combat roles in this gamer you will easily miss out on as it looks 70% of the game.
https://aocwiki.net/PvP
Joking aside we all knew what Ashes was when we backed the game, please don’t let the 1% change your concept of risk vs reward pvp !!! @GMSteven
The Devs have already said that their aim is to create a niche game so nothing that's said will change the design of the game in any drastic way.
What can and will change through testing is degrees, for example; what gets dropped and by whom, how much gets dropped, corruption gained, stats dropped per level of corruption.
But note that I said through testing, people moaning for a different game won't get it. All this thread accomplishes is keeping the bitching and trolling to this thread.
When it becomes time to test OWPvP and corruption I'm sure other threads will be created and this one will be forgotten but in the meantime let's get this to 2000 posts.
But why shouldn’t there be some risk if I choose to venture out into the wild to look for those rare materials that could possibly make me a lot of money or a powerful item ? You wouldn’t expect to waltz through a raid and just loot the boss chest without and any fight so the open world should be the same to some degree.
I class my self as a PVPer not a PKer. So if I see a dude really going at his wood or chipping away at that ore I’m not gonna bother him unless he bothers me first. I know a lot of people who have this outlook. Yes from games like BDO, ESO, AoConan, GW2. All these had or have a strong roaming pvp community, people looking for MEANINGFUL fights not a free kill then stat reductions from said kill !!
It's totally about MMOs making big promises of "controlled gank boxes", over and over, but never being able to deliver on that. Partly because that is a very player to player subjective definition and because humans will constantly find ways around restrictions.
Promises for "balanced" random PVP have been seen over and over but can never satisfy enough players to keep the game strong. All you can do is look at the next set of assurances and hope that developers can deliver...
Totally agree and I'm not one advocating for no random PVP. I like the sense of risk involved. I like there to be places I might go to explore/gather/etc... where there is danger beyond NPC mobs.
I am just hopefully pointing out that the PVP Averse portion of the MMORPG market have heard all of this before and no amount of logical points about balancing during Alpha stages will convince most of them to assume otherwise than a result that is sub par of their expectations.
It really can't when for some, getting ganked once is too much, getting ganked 1 time a day is too much and so on.
Point being that unless OUR attitudes change about what is acceptable PVP (all around) there will never be a really successful sandbox or "sandbox elements" game that is really a AAA performer.
And it's fine for goal posts to move.
We just need to check back in and be sure we both understand where the new perimeters are.
I agree, discouraged is not the same thing as restricted.
Which is precisely why RPers typically want separate servers designated for RPers.
And also why RPers are concerned about how the Ashes devs plan to support RPers in the game.
I don't know that anyone has asked for PvP combat to be totally removed from the game.
News flash, the amount of games with these kind of PvP mechanics are nigh non-existant, which is WHY ashes is so popular.
Thing is: free open world PVP games, that have sandbox elements (player crafted items primarily) usually fail. The same old story. Wolves eat the sheep until they are extinct. Then wolves turn on wolves and wolves start leaving. Then servers start dying, and so on it goes.
I read that AoC will have gear drops from mobs so that may not apply as seriously as other games, we'll see.
If I take your meaning of "Free PVP" wrong then plz forgive.
Some people have advocated strongly for separate servers - which is highly, highly, highly unlikely to happen.
Every playstyle here is being selfish - we all want to be able to enjoy this game.
What most people are here for is the Node system and how that has the great potential to end endgame and instead endlessly build up and tear down cities in order to continually churn out new and different content.
So, no, we can't just go a play another game like that because they don't exist yet.
In wow you cannot talk or trade with the horde or attack the alliance if ur alliance, for example.
And, again, most people are not here because they are waiting for a free-for-all PvP combat game. That's not what Ashes is.
Most people are here for the Node system.
Which includes PvX to drive world changes.
From what I've seen you can fight anywhere besides places like cities and starter zones, the PK system seems to suggest it's like that old game I was talking about, infact It sounds directly inspired from it, with even the same terminology.
It is possible to fight other players pretty much anywhere, but it is not free-for-all.
There are penalties for killing non-combatants. And there are restrictions against attacking groups of players you are aligned with - for instance, during a siege, it is impossible to attack fellow citizens of your home Node.
So.. again, it's not a free-you-can-do-anything game.
The Node system is PvX:
PvE to build and progress and PvP to capture or delevel.
Even defense is both PvE and PvP.
"Full PvP" has never been a thing for Ashes.
What you were hyped about and what you "remember" are subjective.
I guess you can share the quote and source of whatever you think it was that announced "full PvP".
If you are tired of the people here sharing their views and desires, you can always go find your own safe space that isn't so tiresome.
I play RPGs for the story and character acting; not for the challenge and thrills of combat.
Your post reminds me of a person from the Revival forums who was all, "Of course, imbecile! The whole point of Player v Player is to ruin your opponents' day and make them feel bad!"
I'm not really interested in competing against other players. I'm interested in coordinating and cooperating with other players even to tell a story about epic conflict between our characters - like I used to do in table-top D&D.
So, if I've got other stuff I'm trying to accomplish before I log out tonight, I'm happy to schedule hours of "PvP combat" tomorrow night.
You know... basic, good ole sportsmanship.
But, since most PvPers aren't into that, I typically prefer to play on PvE-only servers.
(But, again, we'll have to see if Corruption is truly a sufficient deterrent for the kind of encounters with PvPers that I abhor.)
Edit: I decided to rewrite my response. You came across as hostile but, even so, I don't have to respond any way but my own. Sounds like you are worried that AoC will turn out differently than they have described it because of something someone may post here. It won't. It'll be much like they are saying it will. You have nothing to feel threatened by from this thread.
Discussing things is interesting though, so I would like to ask that you don't try and shut down other posters (including myself). We just enjoy talking about things and exchanging insights.
Look at 2 versions of "Darkfall" for upcoming PVP oriented games with less restrictions.
I'll be waiting to try this game. It looks like it will be great if all goals are met!
Good Luck!
Given that alpha and beta will be a time in which people like myself will be going on murder rampages to test out and improve the corruption system, I foresee a very short AoC 'career' for you. Best of luck in Eve Online.
The extremes of both camps are so inflexible in attitude.
sigh...
ganking wont be worth it in this game.
That's what alts are for.
Also, there is no P2W so players will have to earn what they get, having the chance to drop an item knowing you might not be able to get another one would also be a deterrent.
I know there will be those that PvP and PK for thrills and do nothing else, as likely there will be PvE players that gather/craft/farm/MOB-hunt and do no (if possible) PvP.
I highly suggest playing the game before jumping on the "PvE Servers" or "Remove Corruption" bandwagons.
I mean, it might not be that bad.
This whole discussion reminds me of twinks in WoW. For years they argued that if there were "twink only BG's" they would love that because no one enjoys being a twink and fighting non-twinks. So finally Blizz gave it to them, regular BG's became fun again, and Twinks completely died, because as we knew all along, people that twink are cowards...once the playing field was lvl, they left. You can 100% bet the same will happen in this game, but since it's open world, they will never have a reason to quit. Thousands of players will leave this game because of gankers making logging in not fun, and that is not an over estimate. It's happened before this game, it will happen to this game, and it will happen after this game. Players and game designers alike just never seem to fathom how far many players are willing to go to gank!