[quote quote=16717]Carebears. Carebears are everywhere!!!
Joking aside. I’m a PKer. I find pleasure in PvP and game warfare. The best parts to Guild Wars2, Elder scrolls, Archeage, etc Are the PvP battles.
That being said. I dislike the AMOUNT of debuffs and penalties that I’d say are UNFAIR to me as a PvPer.
BUT that being said. I’m not complaining. Nor are alot of the PvPers in these forums and who are going to this game which may infact out number you.
[/quote] At least you have a open mind unlike a lot of other die hard pvpers I've seen posting. Pretty sure the reason they're going with this system is when it comes down to it most mmo players don't enjoy forced pvp. All you have to do is look at a game like wow for proof of this. If you look at the server population balance on pvp servers most of them are very one sided either horde or alliance because players get sick of being ganked when they're not in the pvp mood. I myself enjoy pvp sometimes but I also enjoy the freedom to quest and explore some without getting ganked every five minutes if I'm not in a pvp mood.
when it really comes down to it though there's not really much point in ganking in ashes (assuming I understand the systems like I think I do) why would anyone waste their time running around killing random players for zero profit when you can raid a caravan and gain loot for your effort? Why waste your time killing some random pleb who most likely a total pvp noob when you can challenge yourself and try to take down the town mayor and gain power and influence in the world?
I think open world PvP is always good to have, it adds an element of surprise and mystery making you wary of strangers, keeping an eye out for gankers and always keeps you on your toes when dealing with players you are uncertain of, with that said, having too many penalties on either side can dampen open world PvP, BDO ruined OWPvP by removing any penalties for the victim, although losing precious XP could be seen as hardcore griefing which was later removed, it was outright unfair when the loser in the fight had no penalty for dying to the ganker. open world PvP should be a prominent feature in ashes for my first few reasons above, it could be encouraged with promises of trash mob loot and % money drops from the victim, that way no one is losing something they worked weeks or months for to obtain, rather maybe an hour or two, and no one is losing super rare items or any weapons or armor they have on, and there is still loot and loss for both sides. Although I also like the idea of certain areas in the world being more dangerous than others, takes runescapes wilderness, you KNOW of the dangers of entering it and taking valuable items, and ashes could have their own version of a "wilderness" and create an incentive of tough but rewarding mobs or dungeons, and players have a much higher (if not 100%) chance to drop any (or all) number of weapon or armor pieces or other rare and valuable items they have.
The tears in this thread are utterly glorious. Its people like this I can't wait to camp. If you want to just kill mobs go play monster hunter or farm simulator 2018.
With the corruption system as it is, I highly doubt this is the right game for you.
The devs have made it clear that they do not want AoC to become a 'gank-box', and will likely be adjusting the system to allow the occasional murder while harshly penalizing serial murderers.
Contrary to my name(which comes from the league of legends fail parody video, which my friends said is me), I generally don't kill for just griefing.
If somebody however annoys me, I have no problem getting quite a bit of "corruption" to have them f-off to the nearest re-spawn point.
What annoys me is simply relative to my current mood.
I am a PvPer. If I am grinding something, or doing something with a group I am playing with and you come and start being an idiot, its very simple, expect me to kill you.
If you are just doing your own thing, then i'm not going to hop out of a bush and wave my sword at you like a petulant twelve year old. Unless of course you're invading my space. I am comfortable with co-habitation with people, however I am territorial. If I am farming a group of mobs or some such and you mess up my rotation or something, you'll get a warning first, then a death the second time vOv.
Where has it been stated that Mules can be attacked? I'm seeing that referenced in a few posts. I've only seen references to people dropping harvests, nothing about mules.
We know mounts can be killed (not permanently) and assume mules can as well but unsure what happens to the resources they are carrying (assuming we put resources on it).
We assume that because we drop a portion of our resources when we die that mules would have some similar mechanic but also not sure what the penalty for killing the mule would be. At the same time some of us were worried that because there is a penalty for attacking a mule but not a caravan that mules would be used to circumvent the caravan system.
It's just something they haven't elaborated on and some of us can see this being handled in different ways.
Good range of thoughts. I'm hoping that mules can't be looted. Thanks, @McStackerson
Gankers are a minority - but I don't really care about how many there are. I care about how often I get trapped into direct character v character combat when I'm not in the mood for it. Other players should not be able to choose for me how I spend my play session.
Many PvPers have no respect for the concept of non-consensual PvP combat. That's the primary issue with having them on the same servers as PvEers..
There's a book I read where people played a card game, they were gambling. You could lose two ways, one was by losing all your money and the second was by getting so drunk that yuo couldn't play anymore.
When you lost a hand you were randomly given an alcoholic drink where the potency was random.
You didn't know what you'd get until you played but you knew that getting drunk was a possibility and its part of the game and there's no game without it.
This is the same, by playing the game, consent is given to all the possible PvP. Its part of the game and without it the game doesn't exist. People need to accept this fact and if it's not something they can come to terms with then perhaps this game won't be a fit.
Um. No. It's like marriage. You still have to give consent each time for certain stuff. That's the way consent works.
This whole mess of feelings would eventually go away, or at least get really tiny, if someone could (somehow) create a system that makes random PVP as, or almost as fun, for the target as for the aggressor in more experiences than not. Some combo of mechanics that couldn't really be "gamed".
I dunno how that could be possible. I don't want other players deciding for me what I must do in a game, so there's no way for to make random PvP fun, as far as I can tell. If I'm not able to say, "No, thanks, I'm not in the mood to play with you right now." and be left unmolested - it's not fun.
This is anyhow something that bothers me. People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE. There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.
PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch. PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.
In 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I have never experienced PvE dicks. I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops. I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering. Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
@Dygz It's not like Marriage it's like any other game where you have set rules. The rules are the rules, wishing that the phrase "Have more boats then any player" actually means "Have more boats then any one player" Doesn't change the meaning of the phrase.
You lose a hand you get a drink, you agreed to the game and if you want to continue playing your next hand you better drink that drink.
AoC will have open world PvP, if you want to play the game you need to accept the Terms and Conditions knowing they will not change.
Consent given. Edit.
I've reconsidered, I would put forth that consent is immaterial as far as open world PvP is concerned. Art imitates life in as much as you can't control how other people interact with you. Getting killed in a non-pvp designated area in the game while part of the game is still frowned upon and for this reason Corruption.
It's still part of the game and people who decide to play the game acknowledge that this can happen and it doesn't matter whether they want it to or not.
I dunno how that could be possible. I don't want other players deciding for me what I must do in a game, so there's no way for to make random PvP fun, as far as I can tell. If I'm not able to say, "No, thanks, I'm not in the mood to play with you right now." and be left unmolested - it's not fun.
Interesting idea, though.
Yeah I can pretty much follow. Maybe not everything should have to be fun. Entertainment activities should (IMO) come out as more fun than not, in the end. That is the real line as far as I rate things.
I am hoping on this game to have lots of that going for it.
This is anyhow something that bothers me. People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE. There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.
PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch. PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.
In 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I have never experienced PvE dicks. I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops. I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering. Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
You must not have played FFXIV with goblin, mandragora, etc trains... Anyway I guess my real question is what's the difference between a random player killing you protecting his crop/ore/monster find and a random bandit NPC killing you for accidentally walking to close while gathering?
The tears in this thread are utterly glorious. Its people like this I can't wait to camp. If you want to just kill mobs go play monster hunter or farm simulator 2018.
With the corruption system as it is, I highly doubt this is the right game for you.
The devs have made it clear that they do not want AoC to become a 'gank-box', and will likely be adjusting the system to allow the occasional murder while harshly penalizing serial murderers.
Contrary to my name(which comes from the league of legends fail parody video, which my friends said is me), I generally don't kill for just griefing.
If somebody however annoys me, I have no problem getting quite a bit of "corruption" to have them f-off to the nearest re-spawn point.
What annoys me is simply relative to my current mood.
I am a PvPer. If I am grinding something, or doing something with a group I am playing with and you come and start being an idiot, its very simple, expect me to kill you.
If you are just doing your own thing, then i'm not going to hop out of a bush and wave my sword at you like a petulant twelve year old. Unless of course you're invading my space. I am comfortable with co-habitation with people, however I am territorial. If I am farming a group of mobs or some such and you mess up my rotation or something, you'll get a warning first, then a death the second time vOv.
This is anyhow something that bothers me. People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE. There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.
PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch. PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.
In 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I have never experienced PvE dicks. I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops. I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering. Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
You must not have played FFXIV with goblin, mandragora, etc trains... Anyway I guess my real question is what's the difference between a random player killing you protecting his crop/ore/monster find and a random bandit NPC killing you for accidentally walking to close while gathering?
The difference is that AI is less ruthless and conniving than human players. They also are typically tethered to a zone of influence so can be escaped from in ways that obstinate humans cannot be. I am able to deny AI combat in ways that don't work with obstinate humans.
Also, there is no such thing as a random player killing me because they are protecting their crops/ore/monster. In that case, a simple conversation should make avoiding combat possible, "Hey, you're in my spot, please go find some place else to hunt." And then I get to choose whether to continue to hunt there and have combat or go find a quieter place to hunt.
I'm an explorer who scouts places invisibly before hunting/gathering, so getting too close to NPCs is rarely a thing for me, either.
@Dygz It's not like Marriage it's like any other game where you have set rules. The rules are the rules, wishing that the phrase "Have more boats then any player" actually means "Have more boats then any one player" Doesn't change the meaning of the phrase.
You lose a hand you get a drink, you agreed to the game and if you want to continue playing your next hand you better drink that drink.
AoC will have open world PvP, if you want to play the game you need to accept the Terms and Conditions knowing they will not change.
Consent given. Edit.
I've reconsidered, I would put forth that consent is immaterial as far as open world PvP is concerned. Art imitates life in as much as you can't control how other people interact with you. Getting killed in a non-pvp designated area in the game while part of the game is still frowned upon and for this reason Corruption.
It's still part of the game and people who decide to play the game acknowledge that this can happen and it doesn't matter whether they want it to or not.
It is like marriage. Marriage does not mean auto-consent. you have to get consent each time you do certain stuff with your spouse.
It's also like boxing, you don't give auto-consent just by stepping into a boxing ring.
And we know it's not auto-consent just by playing Ashes because non-consensual PvP killing in Ashes is penalized with Corruption. Also, if it were auto-consent just by playing the game, we would all be combatants by default rather than non-combatants by default or any non-combatant would be auto-flagged combatant when attacked.
People who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat won't play Ashes if they deem that Corruption is not enough of a deterrent.
But, we have to play Ashes with the Corruption mechanic implemented to determine if it's an adequate deterrent. And it will matter how people who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat feel, since the Corruption mechanic will be adjusted during testing - and probably during launch, too. For all we know, it could end up different on different servers.
If someone decides it's a good idea to stealth-gank me while picking mushrooms or mining ore... Cool.. I have a very long memory, and even keep lists.. One day, someday.. could be weeks, months later.. I'll see said person again.. Perhaps while they are mass-pulling in a field someplace.. Then I will return the favor... Or perhaps one day I craft that crazy dragonslayer +12 sword and said person will want to buy it.. Nope.. Sorry.. MMOs are about community.. There are those in this thread that see nothing wrong with ganking someone that's picking mushrooms and is a crafter.. That's fine if the game allows it.. But there will be repercussions of said action.. and.. perhaps.. that's okay in their mind too.. Just keep in mind that as a community, word can travel fast, and repercussions can be vast.. But, that's all part of the fun.. right? :P
This is anyhow something that bothers me. People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE. There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.
PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch. PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.
In 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I have never experienced PvE dicks. I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops. I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering. Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
20 years and you've never had someone follow you to AoE the mobs you pull? 20 years and you've never had a rival raid group attempt to mess up a boss' aggro and try to wipe you so they can set up and take it themselves? 20 years and you've never found any person who wanted a resource/npc that you were farming badly enough to try and farm/take it out from under you?
@Dygz It's not like Marriage it's like any other game where you have set rules. The rules are the rules, wishing that the phrase "Have more boats then any player" actually means "Have more boats then any one player" Doesn't change the meaning of the phrase.
You lose a hand you get a drink, you agreed to the game and if you want to continue playing your next hand you better drink that drink.
AoC will have open world PvP, if you want to play the game you need to accept the Terms and Conditions knowing they will not change.
Consent given. Edit.
I've reconsidered, I would put forth that consent is immaterial as far as open world PvP is concerned. Art imitates life in as much as you can't control how other people interact with you. Getting killed in a non-pvp designated area in the game while part of the game is still frowned upon and for this reason Corruption.
It's still part of the game and people who decide to play the game acknowledge that this can happen and it doesn't matter whether they want it to or not.
It is like marriage. Marriage does not mean auto-consent. you have to get consent each time you do certain stuff with your spouse.
It's also like boxing, you don't give auto-consent just by stepping into a boxing ring.
And we know it's not auto-consent just by playing Ashes because non-consensual PvP killing in Ashes is penalized with Corruption. Also, if it were auto-consent just by playing the game, we would all be combatants by default rather than non-combatants by default or any non-combatant would be auto-flagged combatant when attacked.
People who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat won't play Ashes if they deem that Corruption is not enough of a deterrent.
But, we have to play Ashes with the Corruption mechanic implemented to determine if it's an adequate deterrent. And it will matter how people who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat feel, since the Corruption mechanic will be adjusted during testing - and probably during launch, too. For all we know, it could end up different on different servers.
You are still consenting to a game where you can be attacked, the penalty does not change this, this game still has open pvp just like crowfall. It blows my mind that you try to use an argument against there flagging system which has a goal to decrease what you don't like. It seems like you would be better with them just having open pvp with no system to discourage it which is silly.
Has nothing to do with an argument against the flagging system. The flagging system proves that Ashes has a penalty for killing non-combatants in non-consensual combat.
Whether the Corruption system is an adequate deterrent for non-consensual combat remains to be seen.
This is anyhow something that bothers me. People here are really focused on dicks who play for PvP that they forget the dicks who play for PvE. There are dicks on both sides and they always find a way to waste ur time.
PvE dicks start grinding over you, stealing ur crops or aggroing mobs to you to interupt your gathering, all cutting your efficiency by bunch. PvP dicks keep killing you without reason and reduce your efficiency by a bunch.
In 20 years of playing MMORPGs, I have never experienced PvE dicks. I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops. I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering. Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
20 years and you've never had someone follow you to AoE the mobs you pull? 20 years and you've never had a rival raid group attempt to mess up a boss' aggro and try to wipe you so they can set up and take it themselves? 20 years and you've never found any person who wanted a resource/npc that you were farming badly enough to try and farm/take it out from under you?
That's some luck right there. (sarcasm)
I have never had anyone follow me to AoE mobs I'm pulling. Following me probably wouldn't be too much fun for them since I spend most of my time exploring. I don't raid, so no such thing as a rival raid group. And I'm never around other groups in any way that they could aggro a boss my group is fighting.
It's easy enough for me to find a different place to farm if someone wants to farm where I've been farming. Either I've been there long enough that it's time to let someone else farm there or not long enough for me to consider it my spot. In Bless Online, I was farming a spot that took longer to farm with multiple people farming, but we still just shared the area with no altercations whatsoever. That's not really about luck.
What I have experienced is asshat PvPers who relentlessly follow me in order to force me into direct PvP combat when I'm not in the mood for that activity.
What I have experienced is asshat PvPers who relentlessly follow me in order to force me into direct PvP combat when I'm not in the mood for that activity.
Then Kill Them.
Nothing stop's ganking quicker than the gankee teabagging them. If they come back do it again...Chances are they won't come back for a third.
If they escalate and bring friends, you do the same. Eventually, congratulations you created content. If you win repeatedly they go away. Nobody likes dying repeatedly.
I think that it is really a matter of how much random PVP is inflicted on players that really just plain do not enjoy it. If the Devs can minimalize that as much as possible, they will have more primarily "PVE players" hang in the game longer.
If they don't, won't or can't then that market share will be weaker than stronger. We just have to wait and see where they figure the best balance (for their game) is.
I'm gonna let them show me before I make up my mind on whether the game is for me or not. Given the current available MMORPG's this game has many cool ideas that are worth playing. Seriously, we should all give development a chance and see what comes out the "Finished" end before we assume what is going to happen.
They should add a pvp ENABLE-DISABLE button but everyone will have PVP disabled. But the Answer to your question is to join a guild that does both. The reason i say this is because you love to do Pve and i love to do Pvp, but also pve so i will join you and we can do pve content and when people decide to attack us, i jump in front and begin to pvp while you assist or try to get away with our loot or whatever, and the reason this is great is because it wont just be me pvping, it will be a group of pvp'ers and pve'ers together in numbers.
To be honest my friend and i will be brutally honest with you. This game might not be for you if you wont accept the PvP included with the PvE. we shouldnt require the devs to create a separate server to appease those who dont love 1 trait of the game. maybe in 2 years after a successful launch that might happen.
To be honest my friend and i will be brutally honest with you. This game might not be for you if you wont accept the PvP included with the PvE. we shouldnt require the devs to create a separate server to appease those who dont love 1 trait of the game. maybe in 2 years after a successful launch that might happen.
In case you are referring to me. I have no problem with PVP, not even random PVP below the level of "gank box". If it is below that, I'm sure I'll be just fine.
They should add a pvp ENABLE-DISABLE button but everyone will have PVP disabled. But the Answer to your question is to join a guild that does both. The reason i say this is because you love to do Pve and i love to do Pvp, but also pve so i will join you and we can do pve content and when people decide to attack us, i jump in front and begin to pvp while you assist or try to get away with our loot or whatever, and the reason this is great is because it wont just be me pvping, it will be a group of pvp'ers and pve'ers together in numbers.
That's the best option! Toggle PVP flagging. You can see this feature in SWTOR and nobody is irritated.
Also if you accidentally venture into a PvP zone you have a timer of 10 seconds that will flag PvP on you unless you turn around and move out of the that zone.
This way people will know if they want to enter PvP zones they need to bring friends or group up since in solo they can't make it. There will always be groups waiting to kill you off
I play both PvP and PvE, but also at times don't want to be bothered while roaming around focusing on some other stuff.
After all, its up to the devs how they want to approach these mechanics and what's their target player base: make it for everyone to enjoy OR limit customers.
I've been reading and absorbing some of the information from both sides for awhile
I've already given my opinion and stance on this subject a few times. I think the Open world pvp is to crucial to how the game works to forgo it in any shape or fashion. Meaningful pvp is one of the foundations and "3" pillars of AoC
So turning off pvp is not an option simply because of the Node system and how it factors into PvP.
However I feel the PvErs/crafter/explorers have a really fair point in this. Losing materials as a non combatant when someone is killing you. This needs to go. ONLY corrupted players/flagged pvpers should lose materials as that is the whole point of consequences of killing players and meaningful pvp.
If you want to Player Kill all day the ONLY reward for killing NON COMBATANT'S should be nothing but the fact you killed them. Now flagged pvpers (who Opt into pvp in their settings) is a fair pvp perspective of dropping resources. You are conciously asking and agreeing to pvp.
Corrupted players killing non combatants should not be rewarded for slaying people who are exploring the world. They should only be rewarded with engaging players who have flagged themselves with pvp.
This would reinforce the concepts that Intrepid has already put in place for dealing with griefing but still having that open world crucial aspect of pvp. If the player who kills other players who are just minding their business doesn't get ANY positive from it other than satisfaction, and gets the proper corruption, bounty applied. Then the risk is there. The reward is you have killed the other player and your ego is intact.
I hate name dropping but this may be something to look into coming up into Alpha 2. Or earlier
tldr; Non-combatants shouldnt be punished by losing materials. To many incentives and opprotunities to grief players exploring or gathering. Flagged pvpers should drop materials to reinforce the meaningful combat and incentivize pvpers between mutual pvpers to minimize griefing in conjuction with Corruption and bounty system (if it is implemented)
In most of traditional D&D games I have ran or played a part in bandits are a thing. Historically bandits were a thing. For me the OWPVP is just part of the fantasy medieval package. If some players want to risk being bandits I think they should have that option as it now is with my current understanding of the flagging & corruption systems.
I like the argument of "...treat PVP'ers like mobs..." but we all know we can walk away from mobs (most of the time) or avoid them altogether by doing something else. This is likely not a reasonable way to avoid PvP.
I like all the arguments indicating that someone is just playing the way they want to and feel like some of their time and fun is ruined by another player. Nobody wants to sit down and play a game to have their chosen time to play and have fun killed by a stranger, or worst yet a bully.
I love PvE and I am not, and never have been, a fan of PvP. Ashe is going to be different as far as node/advancement/travel/etc. (as for things I like) and it will be in a way that sounds super on target for me. So I am going to be "in character" and "in the world" just enough to realize at any point some low-down-dirty-bandit might kill me for no reason other that to see what I had or convince me to go somewhere else next time.
tl/dr; I don't like PvP, but bandits happen in fantasy environments.
In most of traditional D&D games I have ran or played a part in bandits are a thing. Historically bandits were a thing. For me the OWPVP is just part of the fantasy medieval package. If some players want to risk being bandits I think they should have that option as it now is with my current understanding of the flagging & corruption systems.
I like the argument of "...treat PVP'ers like mobs..." but we all know we can walk away from mobs (most of the time) or avoid them altogether by doing something else. This is likely not a reasonable way to avoid PvP.
I like all the arguments indicating that someone is just playing the way they want to and feel like some of their time and fun is ruined by another player. Nobody wants to sit down and play a game to have their chosen time to play and have fun killed by a stranger, or worst yet a bully.
I love PvE and I am not, and never have been, a fan of PvP. Ashe is going to be different as far as node/advancement/travel/etc. (as for things I like) and it will be in a way that sounds super on target for me. So I am going to be "in character" and "in the world" just enough to realize at any point some low-down-dirty-bandit might kill me for no reason other that to see what I had or convince me to go somewhere else next time.
tl/dr; I don't like PvP, but bandits happen in fantasy environments.
And this is totally fine.
But I dont think incentivizing the "bandits" to kill lowbies or gatherers for extra resources should be in the game. That screams "abuse" to me as I can already think of a dozen scenarios on how to grief people that way as a pvper myself.
Leave the resource drops to caravans/ships exclusively (making them more crucial in the node war system) or move it to only Flagged pvpers and corrupted players plus the caravans and ships
I have heard before on other threads that Intrepid is not going to be rewarding PK outside of PvP battles etc.. But with the threat of someone ganking you while gathering, is even more of a reason to join a guild and have companions that you can call upon to help you out.
For example, in a organized guild you can gather what members of the guild requires to progress. If you are obtaining an item from a guild work order and someone is griefing you, you can tell your guild what is going on and since they want to progress and need your abilities to gather efficiently they are going to smoosh that PKer.
With all of the negatives that come from corruption, I highly doubt that there will be any issues like in BDO. But it adds to the danger and thrill of going out into a strange wilderness to gather items. At least those are my opinions!
I have heard before on other threads that Intrepid is not going to be rewarding PK outside of PvP battles etc.. But with the threat of someone ganking you while gathering, is even more of a reason to join a guild and have companions that you can call upon to help you out.
For example, in a organized guild you can gather what members of the guild requires to progress. If you are obtaining an item from a guild work order and someone is griefing you, you can tell your guild what is going on and since they want to progress and need your abilities to gather efficiently they are going to smoosh that PKer.
With all of the negatives that come from corruption, I highly doubt that there will be any issues like in BDO. But it adds to the danger and thrill of going out into a strange wilderness to gather items. At least those are my opinions!
Again this is totally fine, and going out solo will still have this factor. And you will still want a guild and friends to go out in the wilds to get resources so that you dont get ganked
But you should not be losing your resources if you are just out in the wilds enjoying and exploring the games environment. Thats just ridiculous lol and I am a pvper myself.
The risk and danger remains, you can still be killed. The only difference is you shouldnt be punished and being griefed killed at the same time. That's largely unbalanced since Corruption CAN be removed, the Player killer can just drop his resources off, and then have a friend kill him (a fellow guild of pkers even) and then keep at it. Or the pker can simply hide then log out to avoid bounty killers. Then log back in to have his corruption removed by friends or a guild without losing his resources or items
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If somebody however annoys me, I have no problem getting quite a bit of "corruption" to have them f-off to the nearest re-spawn point.
What annoys me is simply relative to my current mood.
I am a PvPer. If I am grinding something, or doing something with a group I am playing with and you come and start being an idiot, its very simple, expect me to kill you.
If you are just doing your own thing, then i'm not going to hop out of a bush and wave my sword at you like a petulant twelve year old. Unless of course you're invading my space. I am comfortable with co-habitation with people, however I am territorial. If I am farming a group of mobs or some such and you mess up my rotation or something, you'll get a warning first, then a death the second time vOv.
That's the way consent works.
I don't want other players deciding for me what I must do in a game, so there's no way for to make random PvP fun, as far as I can tell. If I'm not able to say, "No, thanks, I'm not in the mood to play with you right now." and be left unmolested - it's not fun.
Interesting idea, though.
I guess the closest is back when trains were a thing, but even those were quick enough that they were no different than a random mob kill.
Other players cannot grind over me or steal "my" crops.
I have never experienced other players aggroing mobs in a manner that could interrupt my gathering.
Only way other players have ever been able to cut my efficiency in gameplay is to attack me directly.
You lose a hand you get a drink, you agreed to the game and if you want to continue playing your next hand you better drink that drink.
AoC will have open world PvP, if you want to play the game you need to accept the Terms and Conditions knowing they will not change.
Consent given. Edit.
I've reconsidered, I would put forth that consent is immaterial as far as open world PvP is concerned. Art imitates life in as much as you can't control how other people interact with you. Getting killed in a non-pvp designated area in the game while part of the game is still frowned upon and for this reason Corruption.
It's still part of the game and people who decide to play the game acknowledge that this can happen and it doesn't matter whether they want it to or not.
Yeah I can pretty much follow. Maybe not everything should have to be fun. Entertainment activities should (IMO) come out as more fun than not, in the end. That is the real line as far as I rate things.
I am hoping on this game to have lots of that going for it.
If somebody however annoys me, I have no problem getting quite a bit of "corruption" to have them f-off to the nearest re-spawn point.
What annoys me is simply relative to my current mood.
I am a PvPer. If I am grinding something, or doing something with a group I am playing with and you come and start being an idiot, its very simple, expect me to kill you.
If you are just doing your own thing, then i'm not going to hop out of a bush and wave my sword at you like a petulant twelve year old. Unless of course you're invading my space. I am comfortable with co-habitation with people, however I am territorial. If I am farming a group of mobs or some such and you mess up my rotation or something, you'll get a warning first, then a death the second time vOv.
If my friends aren't around, I will
I am able to deny AI combat in ways that don't work with obstinate humans.
Also, there is no such thing as a random player killing me because they are protecting their crops/ore/monster.
In that case, a simple conversation should make avoiding combat possible, "Hey, you're in my spot, please go find some place else to hunt."
And then I get to choose whether to continue to hunt there and have combat or go find a quieter place to hunt.
I'm an explorer who scouts places invisibly before hunting/gathering, so getting too close to NPCs is rarely a thing for me, either.
(Trains were in vanilla EQ.)
Marriage does not mean auto-consent.
you have to get consent each time you do certain stuff with your spouse.
It's also like boxing, you don't give auto-consent just by stepping into a boxing ring.
And we know it's not auto-consent just by playing Ashes because non-consensual PvP killing in Ashes is penalized with Corruption.
Also, if it were auto-consent just by playing the game, we would all be combatants by default rather than non-combatants by default or any non-combatant would be auto-flagged combatant when attacked.
People who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat won't play Ashes if they deem that Corruption is not enough of a deterrent.
But, we have to play Ashes with the Corruption mechanic implemented to determine if it's an adequate deterrent.
And it will matter how people who don't enjoy non-consensual PvP combat feel, since the Corruption mechanic will be adjusted during testing - and probably during launch, too.
For all we know, it could end up different on different servers.
MMOs are about community.. There are those in this thread that see nothing wrong with ganking someone that's picking mushrooms and is a crafter.. That's fine if the game allows it.. But there will be repercussions of said action.. and.. perhaps.. that's okay in their mind too.. Just keep in mind that as a community, word can travel fast, and repercussions can be vast.. But, that's all part of the fun.. right? :P
That's some luck right there.
(sarcasm)
The flagging system proves that Ashes has a penalty for killing non-combatants in non-consensual combat.
Whether the Corruption system is an adequate deterrent for non-consensual combat remains to be seen.
I don't raid, so no such thing as a rival raid group.
And I'm never around other groups in any way that they could aggro a boss my group is fighting.
It's easy enough for me to find a different place to farm if someone wants to farm where I've been farming.
Either I've been there long enough that it's time to let someone else farm there or not long enough for me to consider it my spot.
In Bless Online, I was farming a spot that took longer to farm with multiple people farming, but we still just shared the area with no altercations whatsoever.
That's not really about luck.
What I have experienced is asshat PvPers who relentlessly follow me in order to force me into direct PvP combat when I'm not in the mood for that activity.
Nothing stop's ganking quicker than the gankee teabagging them. If they come back do it again...Chances are they won't come back for a third.
If they escalate and bring friends, you do the same. Eventually, congratulations you created content. If you win repeatedly they go away. Nobody likes dying repeatedly.
TL;DR Git gud.
I think that it is really a matter of how much random PVP is inflicted on players that really just plain do not enjoy it. If the Devs can minimalize that as much as possible, they will have more primarily "PVE players" hang in the game longer.
If they don't, won't or can't then that market share will be weaker than stronger. We just have to wait and see where they figure the best balance (for their game) is.
I'm gonna let them show me before I make up my mind on whether the game is for me or not. Given the current available MMORPG's this game has many cool ideas that are worth playing. Seriously, we should all give development a chance and see what comes out the "Finished" end before we assume what is going to happen.
But the Answer to your question is to join a guild that does both. The reason i say this is because you love to do Pve and i love to do Pvp, but also pve so i will join you and we can do pve content and when people decide to attack us, i jump in front and begin to pvp while you assist or try to get away with our loot or whatever, and the reason this is great is because it wont just be me pvping, it will be a group of pvp'ers and pve'ers together in numbers.
Also if you accidentally venture into a PvP zone you have a timer of 10 seconds that will flag PvP on you unless you turn around and move out of the that zone.
This way people will know if they want to enter PvP zones they need to bring friends or group up since in solo they can't make it. There will always be groups waiting to kill you off
I play both PvP and PvE, but also at times don't want to be bothered while roaming around focusing on some other stuff.
After all, its up to the devs how they want to approach these mechanics and what's their target player base: make it for everyone to enjoy OR limit customers.
I've already given my opinion and stance on this subject a few times. I think the Open world pvp is to crucial to how the game works to forgo it in any shape or fashion. Meaningful pvp is one of the foundations and "3" pillars of AoC
So turning off pvp is not an option simply because of the Node system and how it factors into PvP.
However I feel the PvErs/crafter/explorers have a really fair point in this. Losing materials as a non combatant when someone is killing you. This needs to go. ONLY corrupted players/flagged pvpers should lose materials as that is the whole point of consequences of killing players and meaningful pvp.
If you want to Player Kill all day the ONLY reward for killing NON COMBATANT'S should be nothing but the fact you killed them. Now flagged pvpers (who Opt into pvp in their settings) is a fair pvp perspective of dropping resources. You are conciously asking and agreeing to pvp.
Corrupted players killing non combatants should not be rewarded for slaying people who are exploring the world. They should only be rewarded with engaging players who have flagged themselves with pvp.
This would reinforce the concepts that Intrepid has already put in place for dealing with griefing but still having that open world crucial aspect of pvp. If the player who kills other players who are just minding their business doesn't get ANY positive from it other than satisfaction, and gets the proper corruption, bounty applied. Then the risk is there. The reward is you have killed the other player and your ego is intact.
Thats how it should be
@GMSteven
I hate name dropping but this may be something to look into coming up into Alpha 2. Or earlier
tldr; Non-combatants shouldnt be punished by losing materials. To many incentives and opprotunities to grief players exploring or gathering. Flagged pvpers should drop materials to reinforce the meaningful combat and incentivize pvpers between mutual pvpers to minimize griefing in conjuction with Corruption and bounty system (if it is implemented)
I like the argument of "...treat PVP'ers like mobs..." but we all know we can walk away from mobs (most of the time) or avoid them altogether by doing something else. This is likely not a reasonable way to avoid PvP.
I like all the arguments indicating that someone is just playing the way they want to and feel like some of their time and fun is ruined by another player. Nobody wants to sit down and play a game to have their chosen time to play and have fun killed by a stranger, or worst yet a bully.
I love PvE and I am not, and never have been, a fan of PvP.
Ashe is going to be different as far as node/advancement/travel/etc. (as for things I like) and it will be in a way that sounds super on target for me.
So I am going to be "in character" and "in the world" just enough to realize at any point some low-down-dirty-bandit might kill me for no reason other that to see what I had or convince me to go somewhere else next time.
tl/dr; I don't like PvP, but bandits happen in fantasy environments.
But I dont think incentivizing the "bandits" to kill lowbies or gatherers for extra resources should be in the game. That screams "abuse" to me as I can already think of a dozen scenarios on how to grief people that way as a pvper myself.
Leave the resource drops to caravans/ships exclusively (making them more crucial in the node war system) or move it to only Flagged pvpers and corrupted players plus the caravans and ships
For example, in a organized guild you can gather what members of the guild requires to progress. If you are obtaining an item from a guild work order and someone is griefing you, you can tell your guild what is going on and since they want to progress and need your abilities to gather efficiently they are going to smoosh that PKer.
With all of the negatives that come from corruption, I highly doubt that there will be any issues like in BDO. But it adds to the danger and thrill of going out into a strange wilderness to gather items. At least those are my opinions!
But you should not be losing your resources if you are just out in the wilds enjoying and exploring the games environment. Thats just ridiculous lol and I am a pvper myself.
The risk and danger remains, you can still be killed. The only difference is you shouldnt be punished and being griefed killed at the same time. That's largely unbalanced since Corruption CAN be removed, the Player killer can just drop his resources off, and then have a friend kill him (a fellow guild of pkers even) and then keep at it. Or the pker can simply hide then log out to avoid bounty killers. Then log back in to have his corruption removed by friends or a guild without losing his resources or items
You see where I'm going?