[quote quote=17482]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17463" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div> <blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17445" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div> I imagine it will likely be more than just bounty hunters since anyone who wants to attack a corrupted player doesn’t have to flag as a combatant due to the game treating them just like a PvE monster. That means most of the general population will probably go after them as well since they are likely to drop gear and are, at that point, significantly weaker than they would be otherwise. And most certainly so will other PKers, who will likely turn on them like sharks in a blood frenzy. Suddenly the PKer becomes content for everyone else. Kind of poetic justice actually.
</blockquote> Wait…. Whaaat? If I attack a corrupt player I don’t flag “combatant”? I just stay flagged “noncombatant”? If by some weird fate I lose then I take a noncombatant xp debt hit?
</blockquote> I’ll have to find the quote in the Q/A answers I’ve been reading but it was something that Steven said regarding when people get corruption. Not sure where I found it. I’ll go digging and post it, if I can find it.
[/quote] If you can. Just a little interesting to read. If I have my facts straight, noncombatant takes a more heavy xp debt than combatant. Still, it was myself that decided to attack the corrupted one. I really cant let myself whine over every little thing.
If this thread has taught me anything, it's that walking the line between player interests is extremely difficult. I commend the developers on that one. But hopefully, they understand that they can't make everybody happy all the time. Ideally, there's going to be ways for PvP-based Guilds and groups to flourish, but PvE will certainly get the brunt of comfort work done first. I'd like an Ultima Online style of free play, with all the freedom that accompanies it, but I doubt that'll come the way I would prefer it to.
[quote quote=17486]The developers already have a direction they want to go in… and the should. We agree.
Having one server that turns off the PvP combat doesn’t derail or impede development or release at all. At most the code for turning off PvP combat is going to be 40 man hours. The devs have more than enough money for that. The devs shouldn’t waste any time “developing” a PvE server. Turn off the PvP combat code. If the PvEers don’t like playing on it, shut it down and replace it with normal. If they do like playing on it and the have a population high enough to keep it running, let it run.
Only tech/production reasons not to have a PvE server is if that’s going to negatively impact the normal servers in some way.
[/quote]
LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable.
[quote quote=17488]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17484" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div> Sure if the Stretch goal is over 3 million. That will be 10% of what the investment from private funding is out there. Likely that might not be enough because you will need to find systems that will replace PVP systems. The problem is, is all the time that will need to go into the developing that AI so it is not scripted to the point there is no change ever on a PVE server. You cannot script PVP. That is why you don’t need to spend countless hours on PVE scripting. </blockquote> Again. No. Just turn of the the PvP combat and let the server sink or swim. The devs don’t have to replace any systems whatsover.
The change will be driven by the players… it just won’t involve players killing players.
[/quote]
Turning of PVP is not as easy as flipping a switch. /sigh I am done talking to you people. This game is being designed as a PVP game. Period. The Developers already said they are not splitting the community. Period. Steven already said not everyone will be happy. Period. So as much as you want to go on and on and on about getting a PVE server. It's not happening. You are just wasting your time and my time. You would get the same out of going to Neverwinter and complaining for 2 months about the game being F2P and it should be P2P. It does not matter the game is what the game is. End of Story.
Now I am done with this conversation because the direction is already set. People trying to change what the game is will not force the developers to change the game.
[quote quote=17489]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17482" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div> <blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17463" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div> <blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17445" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div> I imagine it will likely be more than just bounty hunters since anyone who wants to attack a corrupted player doesn’t have to flag as a combatant due to the game treating them just like a PvE monster. That means most of the general population will probably go after them as well since they are likely to drop gear and are, at that point, significantly weaker than they would be otherwise. And most certainly so will other PKers, who will likely turn on them like sharks in a blood frenzy. Suddenly the PKer becomes content for everyone else. Kind of poetic justice actually.
</blockquote> Wait…. Whaaat? If I attack a corrupt player I don’t flag “combatant”? I just stay flagged “noncombatant”? If by some weird fate I lose then I take a noncombatant xp debt hit?
</blockquote> I’ll have to find the quote in the Q/A answers I’ve been reading but it was something that Steven said regarding when people get corruption. Not sure where I found it. I’ll go digging and post it, if I can find it.
</blockquote> If you can. Just a little interesting to read. If I have my facts straight, noncombatant takes a more heavy xp debt than combatant. Still, it was myself that decided to attack the corrupted one. I really cant let myself whine over every little thing.
[/quote]
I'm still looking for the specific mention of a corrupt player basically being a PvE monster but this one is from the known information google doc which talks about a non-combatant who attacks a corrupt player will not flag as a non-combatant. The doc is found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14luppZ3Ub8jmcw_aK65QWxYY4xa8qAo9zRfpYWBxOXE/edit
What type of flagging system will be used for PvP in Ashes?
• There are three states that a player can find themselves in: Non-Combatant (Green), Combatant (Purple), and Corrupt (Red). Everyone is a Non-Combatant by default. If a Non-Combatant attacks a Combatant or another non-combatant, then they become a Combatant for a period of time. Similarly, if a Non-Combatant enters a PVP zone (which includes things like Castles, City Sieges and Caravans) they are automatically flagged a Combatant while in the zone, and for a period of time after leaving that zone. • Players can kill Combatants without repercussions, and are encouraged to do so, since dying while a Combatant means you suffer reduced death penalties. Where this changes is when a Combatant kills a Non-Combatant. In this case, the Combatant is Corrupt, and acquires a Corruption Score (which is accrued based on a number of different parameters, including the level differential of their freshly slain victim). This Corruption Score can be worked off with effort through a few mechanics, but the primary means of getting rid of it is through death. • <strong>While a player is marked as Corrupt, they may be attacked by both Combatants and Non-Combatants. If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.</strong>
This may have changed and we don't really have the full story of what this actually means but it sounds to me like if a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player they don't have to worry about going into combatant status which would make them fair game. But that does raise questions about death penalty should they lose, assuming the corrupt players stats are not so reduced that it makes that question moot. Then again, the non-combatant could always just choose to not attack that corrupt player and then not have to worry about it either way. :)
[quote quote=17496] LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable. [/quote] Actually, I was a developer on COD (among other games), so.... yes. I'm not a programmer. I'm a producer. How many times did I ask for a valid reason why there should be no PvE server?? Easy enough to say "You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already." Everybody can understand that without having to bring up examples about caravans and taxes.
But, that's fine. The devs can just make the PvE server similar to RP severs. No code change, but players who kill other players get hit with the same penalties as players who interfere with RP on the RP servers. If it's going to take the devs 20 months to toggle off PvP for a PvE server, then that's the best the PvE only crowd can hope for.
Why did you spend 10+ hours talking about taxes and caravans and node cities??
[quote quote=17513]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17496" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div> LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable. </blockquote> Actually, I was a developer on COD (among other games), so…. yes. I’m not a programmer. I’m a producer. How many times did I ask for a valid reason why there should be no PvE server?? Easy enough to say “You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already.” Everybody can understand that without having to bring up examples about caravans and taxes.
But, that’s fine. The devs can just make the PvE server similar to RP severs. No code change, but players who kill other players get hit with the same penalties as players who interfere with RP on the RP servers. If it’s going to take the devs 20 months to toggle off PvP for a PvE server, then that’s the best the PvE only crowd can hope for.
Why did you spend 10+ hours talking about taxes and caravans and node cities??
[/quote] I don't think that he did. A lot of it was me because you asked why things would have to change for a PVE server to work... like pretty much asking Intrepid to make two games instead of one. But its all good because I like discussing MMO stuff even if it isn't going to make ANY difference.
Okay, I've read through probably the majority of this thread and just wanted to add a few things.
For people saying that this game won't attract or retain players because it doesn't cater to people who want to play just purely pvp or pve I would like to remind people that not everyone that wants to play this game cares about having them fully separated. I'm sure there are many people who don't even really play mmos that are interested in Ashes of Creation simply for its unique mechanics and blend between pve and pvp, I know I certainly was.
I've only played a few mmos in the past, and most not very frequently or for very long, but that was mainly because they were just boring games that didn't feel like they had any point to anything. The cities and towns all felt dead and useless as they were just full of dumb npcs that just walked around and/or handed out fetch quests. With real players populating these towns though, and working the shops, farms, and inns, I feel like everything in the world will have a lot more meaning. Sure, these places can get attacked or destroyed, but that just gives a lot more importance to these places, and also makes sure there is constant change in the world.
There is of course, the threat of gankers and griefers ruining some of the fun with meaningless and random attacks, but I think if the corruption system is implemented properly it won't really be a problem. If the gankers are weakened enough from the penalties of corruption then it should be no problem for the people to just turn around and waste them if they try attacking them again. Also, if they drop their good gear, then they won't really be able to kill people easily afterwards, or potentially at all, especially when it's combined with the penalties of corruption. Of course, all of this will need testing to make sure the deterrents are effective, but that's what the beta tests and such should help with. Then lastly of course, if a player is being particularly horrible, such as targeting only one player, or a group of players, there's always the ability for moderators to ban them.
One other thing that can help against player attacks that I think other people are forgetting is that you can hire npc bodyguards. I've only heard them being used for caravans, but perhaps they will be implemented in other areas of the game (ex. personal bodyguard, property guard, etc.). This could make it easier for people to solo without worrying about getting jumped.
Overall, I think the whole game will be better with pve and pvp combined. I'm really interested and excited to see what sort of scenarios will pop up due to the game's unique mechanics. One of my favorite thing to do in games is adventure and explore, and from the dynamic nature of this game I feel like there will always be new things to see.
Oh Stabby... same thread different game. There is no seperation between PVE and PVP. Both aspects must be present for any sort of longevity in any game that has been released or will be released. Purely Pve games can succeed and purely pvp ones can as well, the problem being these games arent MMOs... they are more often than not different sub genres
Ashes of creation has to have both to be successfull, the game design alone cannot give you the magical trammel world you envision.
Honestly, thats for the best. A pure PVE only game comes into the same problem it always has end game content. It just becomes a constent treadmill of new gear, new event, new mob. It gets old. There is a reason WoW has gone through sooooooooo many item teirs and artifact power levels and this and that, and litgerally has lost the majority of its playerbase. It isnt fun.
Games such as UO, shadowbane...sandboxes. while they may not show the same number of subs as WoW did were far more successful for far longer. The closer this game gets to old school UO the better. They already have systems in place for stopping grief pking (granted im fine with item loss if equipment isnt as hard to obtain in BDO, the skill reduction though is up for debate).
TLDR: stop going into every new game forum and creating literally the exact same thread
Let it go, Let it go.... seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don't like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don't want to get killed by other players while you're exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don't progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn't want this to a gank box game or simply don't play the game.
[quote quote=17558]Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote] That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers... It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all. And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like. EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers. Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes. But... if theirdeterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
[quote quote=17558]Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote] That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers... It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all. And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like. EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers. Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes. But... if their deterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
[quote quote=17558]Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote] That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers... It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all. And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like, I always say. EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers. Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes. But... if their deterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
Looks Dygz, I am sure you are a swell kinda guy and all,
But please stop trying to be the voices of the PVE masses.
All you are doing is pissing in the wind and disrespecting core design fundamentals.
You are attempting to blackmail the game with hypothetical subscription base which currently boasts your self and a handfull of others....
While the Kick starter hit 1mil in a day without direct advertising, based merely by word of mouth, and struck a chord with a MMO fan base that has been disenfranchised for over a decade.
What you are demanding is %50 of a game, but that it still functions at 100%.
The fact is it's easier for you to pull your thumb out and have a go at the way the game is intended to be played...and perhaps even enjoying it, than trying to hold a dedicated development team to ransom.
[quote quote=17586]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/11/#post-17558" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div> Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. </blockquote> That’s still odd logic to me. If I don’t want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers… It’s not simply that I won’t play on the PvP server… I won’t play the game at all. And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don’t play what you don’t like, I always say. EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it’s not like it’s impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers. Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn’t last long. I’m not sure Crowfall will last very long either…the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There’s great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes. But… if their deterrents don’t work as well as they hope, I would bail… like every other time I’ve played on a mixed server.
[/quote]
Well thats good to hear. Guess we just have to deal with you trolling on the forums until the game releases then. I'm fine with that. Btw, may I suggest you go and play Dauntless instead? That's a pure PvE game from what I understood.
If you make a purely PvE game you are making a niche game....not an MMO If you make a purely PvP game you are making a niche game....not an MMO MMO is about building a community and then getting as many to cooperate at once as you can. MMO is a Community Project. If it becomes niche....it failed.
That does not mean people cant play solo and must group either. It means you must provide content that requires all kinds of group size cooperation. 100% cooperation being the goal. Its the games job to ensure cooperation is enabled.
This is what AoC is doing. At the beginning little cooperation is required. At the end massive cooperation is required. The only way to ensure your survival will be massive coordinated numbers.
All that aside. That means you MUST enable all types of playstyles to coexist. Because the whole is a collection of unique parts. Because everyone is and should be unique. If they arent unique...whats the point of their existance ? What role do they play that hasnt already been filled ?
@Dygz They can create simple script to make pvp available on a pve server when attacking/defending caravans of nodes. In EQ they had Tome of Order and Discord that allowed for pvp on pve servers. It's not difficult to code in.
[quote quote=17586]<blockquote> <div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/11/#post-17558" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div> Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential. You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. </blockquote> That’s still odd logic to me. If I don’t want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers… It’s not simply that I won’t play on the PvP server… I won’t play the game at all. And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don’t play what you don’t like, I always say. EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it’s not like it’s impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers. Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn’t last long. I’m not sure Crowfall will last very long either…the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There’s great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes. But… if their deterrents don’t work as well as they hope, I would bail… like every other time I’ve played on a mixed server.
[/quote]
So you said it if this is a PvP game you won't play the game at all. The door is there ----> Exit
The dev stated more than once that this is a PvP "AND" PvE game if you don't like it don't play, but please stop your nonsense in trying to change the game into something it is not just because you don't like it. This is child like behavior in its purest form.
just toggle of PvP, congratulation you just turned of a major part of the game - in 3 years we will see the same PvElers cry about that on there Server is no change and the game is boring etc...
As much as the game developers deny this is a faction game....I disagree. PvP vs PvP vs PvE It is pvp+pve players with one idea vs pvp+pve players with a different idea vs the world with its own ideas. Al vying for control over the future of the server. Removing PvP is literally breaking the game, as would be removing the PvE.
Community is such a huge thing for Steven and the Devs. Having PvE and PvP servers would split the community in a way that they don't want and i think most agree? I do. Servers will thrive because PvEers/Crafters and PvPers will be working together for the good of the server and thats the great sense of community Steven is going for. Yes there will be solo/groups of PK'rs but there will also be Other PK'rs hunting these people down ;) No one is forcing you to be a victim.
Mmmn. No one is forcing anyone to play a game they don't like. But, the game does kinda force players to engage in PvP combat - due to the death penalties associated with PvP combat. Social media is the glue that binds MMORPG communities. The EQNext community is still strong and following each other to new games and new games still in development. That was mostly forged via twitch and Landmark. If anything, in Landmark, it was the building that bonded us - working together to create, not the PvP combat. And this is likely to be true in AoC as well. Not only creating cities but also destroying cities. That's the dynamic change that's really the pillar; not players killing players. PvP conflict is the driving force of change and drama moreso than PvP combat. What's most compelling about community in AoC is that if we want fast travel, we have to work together for months to build a Scientific Metropolis; not working together to kill other players.
One PvE server is not going to split the AoC community any more than having multiples of the normal servers. But, if it's too time-consuming for the devs to even implement a PvE server, it's all moot anyways.
Well I've made my case. If the game launches with forced PvP I won't play it. It doesn't appear MMO's are going to be my thing from this point on either. Since they're all shifting to this open world PvP I may have to pick up another hobby. Perhaps this is for the best.
Anyway, good luck to you guys. I hope you enjoy AoC.
Comments
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17463" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17445" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div>
I imagine it will likely be more than just bounty hunters since anyone who wants to attack a corrupted player doesn’t have to flag as a combatant due to the game treating them just like a PvE monster. That means most of the general population will probably go after them as well since they are likely to drop gear and are, at that point, significantly weaker than they would be otherwise. And most certainly so will other PKers, who will likely turn on them like sharks in a blood frenzy. Suddenly the PKer becomes content for everyone else. Kind of poetic justice actually.
</blockquote>
Wait…. Whaaat? If I attack a corrupt player I don’t flag “combatant”? I just stay flagged “noncombatant”?
If by some weird fate I lose then I take a noncombatant xp debt hit?
</blockquote>
I’ll have to find the quote in the Q/A answers I’ve been reading but it was something that Steven said regarding when people get corruption. Not sure where I found it. I’ll go digging and post it, if I can find it.
[/quote]
If you can. Just a little interesting to read. If I have my facts straight, noncombatant takes a more heavy xp debt than combatant. Still, it was myself that decided to attack the corrupted one. I really cant let myself whine over every little thing.
We agree.
Having one server that turns off the PvP combat doesn’t derail or impede development or release at all.
At most the code for turning off PvP combat is going to be 40 man hours. The devs have more than enough money for that.
The devs shouldn’t waste any time “developing” a PvE server. Turn off the PvP combat code.
If the PvEers don’t like playing on it, shut it down and replace it with normal. If they do like playing on it and the have a population high enough to keep it running, let it run.
Only tech/production reasons not to have a PvE server is if that’s going to negatively impact the normal servers in some way.
[/quote]
LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17484" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
Sure if the Stretch goal is over 3 million. That will be 10% of what the investment from private funding is out there. Likely that might not be enough because you will need to find systems that will replace PVP systems. The problem is, is all the time that will need to go into the developing that AI so it is not scripted to the point there is no change ever on a PVE server. You cannot script PVP. That is why you don’t need to spend countless hours on PVE scripting.
</blockquote>
Again. No.
Just turn of the the PvP combat and let the server sink or swim.
The devs don’t have to replace any systems whatsover.
The change will be driven by the players… it just won’t involve players killing players.
[/quote]
Turning of PVP is not as easy as flipping a switch. /sigh I am done talking to you people. This game is being designed as a PVP game. Period. The Developers already said they are not splitting the community. Period. Steven already said not everyone will be happy. Period. So as much as you want to go on and on and on about getting a PVE server. It's not happening. You are just wasting your time and my time. You would get the same out of going to Neverwinter and complaining for 2 months about the game being F2P and it should be P2P. It does not matter the game is what the game is. End of Story.
Now I am done with this conversation because the direction is already set. People trying to change what the game is will not force the developers to change the game.
if you want to get the full experience as they have intended, specified and described.
There is no half measures. there is no simple switch.
You are going to have to remove your training wheels, leave day care and put on your grown up pants.
The PvP will enhance the PvE and viceversa.
I will gladly take more game content funding over dedicated server segregation resources and upkeep any-day of the week.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17482" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17463" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/9/#post-17445" rel="nofollow">Ayren wrote:</a></div>
I imagine it will likely be more than just bounty hunters since anyone who wants to attack a corrupted player doesn’t have to flag as a combatant due to the game treating them just like a PvE monster. That means most of the general population will probably go after them as well since they are likely to drop gear and are, at that point, significantly weaker than they would be otherwise. And most certainly so will other PKers, who will likely turn on them like sharks in a blood frenzy. Suddenly the PKer becomes content for everyone else. Kind of poetic justice actually.
</blockquote>
Wait…. Whaaat? If I attack a corrupt player I don’t flag “combatant”? I just stay flagged “noncombatant”?
If by some weird fate I lose then I take a noncombatant xp debt hit?
</blockquote>
I’ll have to find the quote in the Q/A answers I’ve been reading but it was something that Steven said regarding when people get corruption. Not sure where I found it. I’ll go digging and post it, if I can find it.
</blockquote>
If you can. Just a little interesting to read. If I have my facts straight, noncombatant takes a more heavy xp debt than combatant. Still, it was myself that decided to attack the corrupted one. I really cant let myself whine over every little thing.
[/quote]
I'm still looking for the specific mention of a corrupt player basically being a PvE monster but this one is from the known information google doc which talks about a non-combatant who attacks a corrupt player will not flag as a non-combatant. The doc is found here: https://docs.google.com/document/d/14luppZ3Ub8jmcw_aK65QWxYY4xa8qAo9zRfpYWBxOXE/edit
What type of flagging system will be used for PvP in Ashes?
• There are three states that a player can find themselves in: Non-Combatant (Green), Combatant (Purple), and Corrupt (Red). Everyone is a Non-Combatant by default. If a Non-Combatant attacks a Combatant or another non-combatant, then they become a Combatant for a period of time. Similarly, if a Non-Combatant enters a PVP zone (which includes things like Castles, City Sieges and Caravans) they are automatically flagged a Combatant while in the zone, and for a period of time after leaving that zone.
• Players can kill Combatants without repercussions, and are encouraged to do so, since dying while a Combatant means you suffer reduced death penalties. Where this changes is when a Combatant kills a Non-Combatant. In this case, the Combatant is Corrupt, and acquires a Corruption Score (which is accrued based on a number of different parameters, including the level differential of their freshly slain victim). This Corruption Score can be worked off with effort through a few mechanics, but the primary means of getting rid of it is through death.
• <strong>While a player is marked as Corrupt, they may be attacked by both Combatants and Non-Combatants. If a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player, the non-combatant will not flag as a combatant.</strong>
This may have changed and we don't really have the full story of what this actually means but it sounds to me like if a non-combatant attacks a corrupt player they don't have to worry about going into combatant status which would make them fair game. But that does raise questions about death penalty should they lose, assuming the corrupt players stats are not so reduced that it makes that question moot. Then again, the non-combatant could always just choose to not attack that corrupt player and then not have to worry about it either way. :)
Thanks for digging that up!
LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable. [/quote]
Actually, I was a developer on COD (among other games), so.... yes.
I'm not a programmer. I'm a producer.
How many times did I ask for a valid reason why there should be no PvE server??
Easy enough to say "You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already."
Everybody can understand that without having to bring up examples about caravans and taxes.
But, that's fine. The devs can just make the PvE server similar to RP severs. No code change, but players who kill other players get hit with the same penalties as players who interfere with RP on the RP servers.
If it's going to take the devs 20 months to toggle off PvP for a PvE server, then that's the best the PvE only crowd can hope for.
Why did you spend 10+ hours talking about taxes and caravans and node cities??
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/10/#post-17496" rel="nofollow">Helzbelz wrote:</a></div>
LOL are you a Developer? Do you have the Ashes of Creation code in-front of you? If you have an IT Background? I can tell you that what YOU might thing is a easy job to change code to change an application is not an easy games as you state especially when you change a core application and how it functions. Do you know how I know? I am a Sr. Windows Systems Engineer, and SQL DBA. I work hand and hand with in-house developers and 3rd party developers. I can tell you went to change a behavior of an application it is not as easy as well it takes 1 person a week to do. That is funny.
For example I have a Royalties system called Alliant. The one Calculations table holds 8 Billion rows. No joke. It keeps every calculation the system every made. It took the company over a year to figure out how to reduce the number of calculations that the table holds and how the calculations work. I can tell you because I talked to the developers that it was not an easy fix because it required re-writing not only the stored procedure but every stored procedure that touch that table and the calculations stored procedure and the entire application because the calculation is built into nearly every DLL.
You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already. That is not a 40 hour job. I understand how development is done. If something is core code they end up with it everywhere. Add the fact that most of the code is built by Indian developers which takes often times a few times for US developers to rewrite themselves because how many times code comes back a total mess. But at least most of the code is salvageable.
</blockquote>
Actually, I was a developer on COD (among other games), so…. yes.
I’m not a programmer. I’m a producer.
How many times did I ask for a valid reason why there should be no PvE server??
Easy enough to say “You cannot change something that has PVP baked into the code. Most MMORPGS that have PVE and PVP server rely on configuration files to control PVE and PVP or have DLLs on the server that control these things. Ashes was not designed with 2 different servers in mind. I can tell you that likely means PVP is all over the code. Which means touching everything and rewriting it. Which is what 20 months worth of work done already.”
Everybody can understand that without having to bring up examples about caravans and taxes.
But, that’s fine. The devs can just make the PvE server similar to RP severs. No code change, but players who kill other players get hit with the same penalties as players who interfere with RP on the RP servers.
If it’s going to take the devs 20 months to toggle off PvP for a PvE server, then that’s the best the PvE only crowd can hope for.
Why did you spend 10+ hours talking about taxes and caravans and node cities??
[/quote]
I don't think that he did. A lot of it was me because you asked why things would have to change for a PVE server to work... like pretty much asking Intrepid to make two games instead of one. But its all good because I like discussing MMO stuff even if it isn't going to make ANY difference.
For people saying that this game won't attract or retain players because it doesn't cater to people who want to play just purely pvp or pve I would like to remind people that not everyone that wants to play this game cares about having them fully separated. I'm sure there are many people who don't even really play mmos that are interested in Ashes of Creation simply for its unique mechanics and blend between pve and pvp, I know I certainly was.
I've only played a few mmos in the past, and most not very frequently or for very long, but that was mainly because they were just boring games that didn't feel like they had any point to anything. The cities and towns all felt dead and useless as they were just full of dumb npcs that just walked around and/or handed out fetch quests. With real players populating these towns though, and working the shops, farms, and inns, I feel like everything in the world will have a lot more meaning. Sure, these places can get attacked or destroyed, but that just gives a lot more importance to these places, and also makes sure there is constant change in the world.
There is of course, the threat of gankers and griefers ruining some of the fun with meaningless and random attacks, but I think if the corruption system is implemented properly it won't really be a problem. If the gankers are weakened enough from the penalties of corruption then it should be no problem for the people to just turn around and waste them if they try attacking them again. Also, if they drop their good gear, then they won't really be able to kill people easily afterwards, or potentially at all, especially when it's combined with the penalties of corruption. Of course, all of this will need testing to make sure the deterrents are effective, but that's what the beta tests and such should help with. Then lastly of course, if a player is being particularly horrible, such as targeting only one player, or a group of players, there's always the ability for moderators to ban them.
One other thing that can help against player attacks that I think other people are forgetting is that you can hire npc bodyguards. I've only heard them being used for caravans, but perhaps they will be implemented in other areas of the game (ex. personal bodyguard, property guard, etc.). This could make it easier for people to solo without worrying about getting jumped.
Overall, I think the whole game will be better with pve and pvp combined. I'm really interested and excited to see what sort of scenarios will pop up due to the game's unique mechanics. One of my favorite thing to do in games is adventure and explore, and from the dynamic nature of this game I feel like there will always be new things to see.
There is no seperation between PVE and PVP. Both aspects must be present for any sort of longevity in any game that has been released or will be released. Purely Pve games can succeed and purely pvp ones can as well, the problem being these games arent MMOs... they are more often than not different sub genres
Ashes of creation has to have both to be successfull, the game design alone cannot give you the magical trammel world you envision.
Honestly, thats for the best. A pure PVE only game comes into the same problem it always has end game content. It just becomes a constent treadmill of new gear, new event, new mob. It gets old. There is a reason WoW has gone through sooooooooo many item teirs and artifact power levels and this and that, and litgerally has lost the majority of its playerbase. It isnt fun.
Games such as UO, shadowbane...sandboxes. while they may not show the same number of subs as WoW did were far more successful for far longer. The closer this game gets to old school UO the better. They already have systems in place for stopping grief pking (granted im fine with item loss if equipment isnt as hard to obtain in BDO, the skill reduction though is up for debate).
TLDR: stop going into every new game forum and creating literally the exact same thread
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn't want this to a gank box game or simply don't play the game.
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote]
That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers...
It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all.
And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like.
EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers.
Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes.
But... if theirdeterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote]
That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers...
It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all.
And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like.
EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers.
Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes.
But... if their deterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game. [/quote]
That's still odd logic to me. If I don't want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers...
It's not simply that I won't play on the PvP server... I won't play the game at all.
And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don't play what you don't like, I always say.
EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it's not like it's impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers.
Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn't last long. I'm not sure Crowfall will last very long either...the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There's great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes.
But... if their deterrents don't work as well as they hope, I would bail... like every other time I've played on a mixed server.
Flagged during caravan
Flagged during siege
Flagged during *insert any PvP related activity*
If you are out in the world RPing, mining, exploring, farming.... nobody should be able to attack you if you don´t want it.
That would make the PvPers go ballistic.
Last thing the devs would ever want to do.
But please stop trying to be the voices of the PVE masses.
All you are doing is pissing in the wind and disrespecting core design fundamentals.
You are attempting to blackmail the game with hypothetical subscription base which currently boasts your self and a handfull of others....
While the Kick starter hit 1mil in a day without direct advertising, based merely by word of mouth, and struck a chord with a MMO fan base that has been disenfranchised for over a decade.
What you are demanding is %50 of a game, but that it still functions at 100%.
The fact is it's easier for you to pull your thumb out and have a go at the way the game is intended to be played...and perhaps even enjoying it, than trying to hold a dedicated development team to ransom.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/11/#post-17558" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div>
Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential.
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game.
</blockquote>
That’s still odd logic to me. If I don’t want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers…
It’s not simply that I won’t play on the PvP server… I won’t play the game at all.
And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don’t play what you don’t like, I always say.
EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it’s not like it’s impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers.
Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn’t last long. I’m not sure Crowfall will last very long either…the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There’s great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes.
But… if their deterrents don’t work as well as they hope, I would bail… like every other time I’ve played on a mixed server.
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Well thats good to hear. Guess we just have to deal with you trolling on the forums until the game releases then. I'm fine with that.
Btw, may I suggest you go and play Dauntless instead? That's a pure PvE game from what I understood.
E for effort, I guess?
If you make a purely PvE game you are making a niche game....not an MMO
If you make a purely PvP game you are making a niche game....not an MMO
MMO is about building a community and then getting as many to cooperate at once as you can.
MMO is a Community Project.
If it becomes niche....it failed.
That does not mean people cant play solo and must group either.
It means you must provide content that requires all kinds of group size cooperation.
100% cooperation being the goal.
Its the games job to ensure cooperation is enabled.
This is what AoC is doing.
At the beginning little cooperation is required.
At the end massive cooperation is required.
The only way to ensure your survival will be massive coordinated numbers.
All that aside. That means you MUST enable all types of playstyles to coexist.
Because the whole is a collection of unique parts.
Because everyone is and should be unique.
If they arent unique...whats the point of their existance ?
What role do they play that hasnt already been filled ?
They can create simple script to make pvp available on a pve server when attacking/defending caravans of nodes. In EQ they had Tome of Order and Discord that allowed for pvp on pve servers. It's not difficult to code in.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/11/#post-17558" rel="nofollow">Ezenkrul87 wrote:</a></div>
Let it go, Let it go…. seriously though. Same crap different game. If you don’t like something you either adapt to it or you leave it. I feel that the Devs have voiced their ideas on this topic over and over again. A good balance between both PvP is PvE is what every game needs. You say you don’t want to get killed by other players while you’re exploring or gathering how does that differ from PvPers who want to be able to do that? No one wants dead servers that don’t progress because we needed to split the community up for different play styles especially when the game is designed with PvP interactions being essential.
You can just wait and see how the open world PvP system will work as Steven mentioned he doesn’t want this to a gank box game or simply don’t play the game.
</blockquote>
That’s still odd logic to me. If I don’t want to deal with PvP combat but the game doesnt have separate servers…
It’s not simply that I won’t play on the PvP server… I won’t play the game at all.
And for a sub game, that means the devs go without the revenue they would have gained from the people playing on the PvE server.
Don’t play what you don’t like, I always say.
EVE is going strong without my bucks, so it’s not like it’s impossible to be successful as a PvP-centric game with no split servers.
Shadowbane was play to crush, but didn’t last long. I’m not sure Crowfall will last very long either…the more I see of their game design.
According to Helzbelz, AoC development is too far along to accommodate a PvE server by shutting of PvP combat, so we will just have to see what happens. There’s great potential for AoC to hook players like me, who like PvP sometimes.
But… if their deterrents don’t work as well as they hope, I would bail… like every other time I’ve played on a mixed server.
[/quote]
So you said it if this is a PvP game you won't play the game at all. The door is there ----> Exit
The dev stated more than once that this is a PvP "AND" PvE game if you don't like it don't play, but please stop your nonsense in trying to change the game into something it is not just because you don't like it.
This is child like behavior in its purest form.
just toggle of PvP, congratulation you just turned of a major part of the game - in 3 years we will see the same PvElers cry about that on there Server is no change and the game is boring etc...
PvP vs PvP vs PvE
It is pvp+pve players with one idea vs pvp+pve players with a different idea vs the world with its own ideas.
Al vying for control over the future of the server.
Removing PvP is literally breaking the game, as would be removing the PvE.
As such I commend PvP as a much-needed feature in the out of town areas.
Less casual the better.
Yes there will be solo/groups of PK'rs but there will also be Other PK'rs hunting these people down ;)
No one is forcing you to be a victim.
But, the game does kinda force players to engage in PvP combat - due to the death penalties associated with PvP combat.
Social media is the glue that binds MMORPG communities. The EQNext community is still strong and following each other to new games and new games still in development. That was mostly forged via twitch and Landmark.
If anything, in Landmark, it was the building that bonded us - working together to create, not the PvP combat.
And this is likely to be true in AoC as well. Not only creating cities but also destroying cities. That's the dynamic change that's really the pillar; not players killing players. PvP conflict is the driving force of change and drama moreso than PvP combat.
What's most compelling about community in AoC is that if we want fast travel, we have to work together for months to build a Scientific Metropolis; not working together to kill other players.
One PvE server is not going to split the AoC community any more than having multiples of the normal servers.
But, if it's too time-consuming for the devs to even implement a PvE server, it's all moot anyways.
Anyway, good luck to you guys. I hope you enjoy AoC.