Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
It doesn't matter whether the PKer kills me or not.
If I'm minding my own business harvesting resources in a spot that is reasonably safe from mob attacks, and some decides to have their fun chasing me away from that spot, that negatively encroaches on my play time.
Some asshat has basically stolen the real world time I've allotted to play by forcing me to go search for another place to safely gather those resources and hit my quota before logging out.
Surviving the encounter is still an untenable loss of time
I dunno why being in a massively multiplayer space means we have to forego common courtesy.
It doesn’t matter whether the PKer kills me or not.
If I’m minding my own business harvesting resources in a spot that is reasonably safe from mob attacks, and some decides to have their fun chasing me away from that spot, that negatively encroaches on my play time.
Some asshat has basically stolen the real world time I’ve allotted to play by forcing me to go search for another place to safely gather those resources and hit my quota before logging out.
Surviving the encounter is still an untenable loss of time
I dunno why being in a massively multiplayer space means we have to forego common courtesy.
[/quote]
Another PVE player that wants to gather the same thing you are will also inhibit you.
It doesn’t matter whether the PKer kills me or not.
If I’m minding my own business harvesting resources in a spot that is reasonably safe from mob attacks, and some decides to have their fun chasing me away from that spot, that negatively encroaches on my play time.
Some asshat has basically stolen the real world time I’ve allotted to play by forcing me to go search for another place to safely gather those resources and hit my quota before logging out.
Surviving the encounter is completely beside the point.
[/quote]
I completely understand that but am against the game being like that. I'm like that too but I want people interrupt me and my friends so i can pvp. What is more important to me is the drama that the small pvp causes. If i get attacked by someone and i see his guild, i now have a reason to attack his guildies. If his guild has a castle or all live in one node, i now have a reason to siege that castle.
I don't want this system for the little fight, i want it for the drama the little fight could cause which seems to be why the devs have it. The system, for the most part, prevents any ganker play styles but still allows for people to stir the pot and cause conflict.
but yes, i understand your reasons as i play games the same way. I just don't want this game to play that way.
there is also what trip said. People don't need to be able to kill you to grief you, they can also take the resources you are after and your time will still be wasted.
It doesn’t matter whether the PKer kills me or not.
If I’m minding my own business harvesting resources in a spot that is reasonably safe from mob attacks, and some decides to have their fun chasing me away from that spot, that negatively encroaches on my play time.
Some asshat has basically stolen the real world time I’ve allotted to play by forcing me to go search for another place to safely gather those resources and hit my quota before logging out.
Surviving the encounter is still an untenable loss of time
I dunno why being in a massively multiplayer space means we have to forego common courtesy.
[/quote]
As far as I understood it, AoC is sort of aiming for a living world, to a certain extent. A Big part of that is freedom, and being able to kill anyone you want almost anywere is a big part of that freedom. There are far more players who want that features or don't mind it then there is players who want a safe world filled with rainbows and unicorn. Instead of trying to change every game that doesn't follow your pacifist playstyle, go play games that embrace such playstyles, like Hello Kitty Online.
Intrepid have an OW pvp style set for the game already. That is what many of us players here want, and so do they. They already added/planned things to penalize PKing and make it a big risk as an atempt to please players like you. Either accept the way it is/will be or move on.
I want to bring up a couple points.
PVP SIDE OF THE COIN -
So you're mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. Your response is limited, flag up or relocated to a crappier XP grinding spot. So now you're forced with taking a penalty in the Corruption system. All because you wanted to defend your right to grind in that spot.
PVE SIDE OF THE COIN -
So you're mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. They flag up and kill you and your group. You now need to revive, repair, run back to your grind spot. But the time involved and the immanent threat if you return now loses everyone in the groups interest and the group disbands.
Regardless of your playstyle, everybody loses when you don't have PVE only and PVP only servers. PVPers that once screamed bloody mary over games separating PVE and PVP players now regret it. I speak from experience. I'm not trying to belittle anybody or call anyone names or tell them to play another game. In order for a community to thrive we need as many players here as possible. More money means more content. More content means more player retention and the desirability for all of this to make AoC our "home" game.
Every good MMO in this genre lately has taken up this "force PvP" stance. It makes me very sad. We need to lure ALL players here, not a select few.
Why is this?
Because the risk of taking someone on doesn't always reap the rewards and a high chance all that time you placed into something will fail-- and you'll be out of that something you worked so hard to achieve.
This is much how PKers will have to look at things. Either they can risk taking on the flagged person to get their "thrill" but for the risk that others who may make it their job to hunt down PKers to take away EVERYTHING they worked for, and worse, they will be extremely weak to the PvE side of things-- and other players after they die... which means they, themselves, can't even really enjoy the game for a time.
While I tend to be more of a PvE person myself, I am fine with PvP, so long as it doesn't become a Gankfest. Given what the dev team are doing to drive people away from this mentality.. There should be less and less PKers over time. Why so? Because the game is community driven. So, even as they get punished by game mechanics, these PKers will also, in time, get punished by the community at large and possible outcast for getting aid, assistance, or help.
At that point, they are pretty much the "bad guy" and if you can get assistance from the community, you will either have to work on proving you won't do this again, thus gain trust, or find like-minded folks who-- may let you in-- Like Bandit Brothers-- Or hope those other outcasts of society don't try to do you in as well.
It's really PvE that destroys.
Players killing players does not affect node any of the node degradation significantly.
The intended Yin/Yang is that non-combatants will craft in order to support combatants while the combatants will protect the non-combatants.
Which combatants seem to think is fair.
Non-combatants really don't want to play that way.
[quote quote=17226]I have not read all 7 pages of this, but I know in the front page someone pointed out that PKers will be heavily punished. There is also a great deal of risk vs thrill from what the Devs have stated. The way I view this really is much like Eve Online– where really Eve Online doesn’t have as much PvP as people think it does.[/quote]
PvEers don't play EVE. It has enough PvP do deter PvEers from playing.
PvErs don't experience any thrill from PvP combat.
[quote quote=17207] If i get attacked by someone and i see his guild, i now have a reason to attack his guildies. If his guild has a castle or all live in one node, i now have a reason to siege that castle.[/quote]
I fully understand that that works for people who like PvP combat.
It's meaningless to carebears who have no interest in fighting other players.
Carebears can RP reasons to siege a castle without killing other players.
I want to bring up a couple points.
PVP SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. Your response is limited, flag up or relocated to a crappier XP grinding spot. So now you’re forced with taking a penalty in the Corruption system. All because you wanted to defend your right to grind in that spot.
PVE SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. They flag up and kill you and your group. You now need to revive, repair, run back to your grind spot. But the time involved and the immanent threat if you return now loses everyone in the groups interest and the group disbands.
Regardless of your playstyle, everybody loses when you don’t have PVE only and PVP only servers. PVPers that once screamed bloody mary over games separating PVE and PVP players now regret it. I speak from experience. I’m not trying to belittle anybody or call anyone names or tell them to play another game. In order for a community to thrive we need as many players here as possible. More money means more content. More content means more player retention and the desirability for all of this to make AoC our “home” game.
Every good MMO in this genre lately has taken up this “force PvP” stance. It makes me very sad. We need to lure ALL players here, not a select few.
[/quote]
If you read everything Dygz wrote you will see that he wants to make alts to gank lowbies just to grief people...
The thing about the pve and pvp servers that you simple refuse to not see is that the Devs are making the game so that each server needs both to function. Understand that is what they are going for at this moment. Who knows, it may change but from what I've heard and seen so far the game you want is not the game they want to make.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/7/#post-17220" rel="nofollow">Stabby wrote:</a></div>
<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/dygz/" rel="nofollow">@dygz</a> – You are obviously a deep thinker and I already want you on my friends list! Too bad the forums won’t give us a thumbs up button.
I want to bring up a couple points.
PVP SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. Your response is limited, flag up or relocated to a crappier XP grinding spot. So now you’re forced with taking a penalty in the Corruption system. All because you wanted to defend your right to grind in that spot.
PVE SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. They flag up and kill you and your group. You now need to revive, repair, run back to your grind spot. But the time involved and the immanent threat if you return now loses everyone in the groups interest and the group disbands.
Regardless of your playstyle, everybody loses when you don’t have PVE only and PVP only servers. PVPers that once screamed bloody mary over games separating PVE and PVP players now regret it. I speak from experience. I’m not trying to belittle anybody or call anyone names or tell them to play another game. In order for a community to thrive we need as many players here as possible. More money means more content. More content means more player retention and the desirability for all of this to make AoC our “home” game.
Every good MMO in this genre lately has taken up this “force PvP” stance. It makes me very sad. We need to lure ALL players here, not a select few.
</blockquote>
If you read everything Dygz wrote you will see that he wants to make alts to gank lowbies just to grief people…
The thing about the pve and pvp servers that you simple refuse to not see is that the Devs are making the game so that each server needs both to function. Either understand that is what they are going for at this moment. Who knows, it may change but from what I’ve heard and seen so far the game you want is not the game they want to make.
[/quote]
Dygz is simply playing devil's advocate and explaining why he feels the deterrents described for Ashes won't work against people who are dead set on ruining people's days.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/7/#post-17230" rel="nofollow">Trip wrote:</a></div>
<blockquote>
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/7/#post-17220" rel="nofollow">Stabby wrote:</a></div>
<a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/users/dygz/" rel="nofollow">@dygz</a> – You are obviously a deep thinker and I already want you on my friends list! Too bad the forums won’t give us a thumbs up button.
I want to bring up a couple points.
PVP SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. Your response is limited, flag up or relocated to a crappier XP grinding spot. So now you’re forced with taking a penalty in the Corruption system. All because you wanted to defend your right to grind in that spot.
PVE SIDE OF THE COIN –
So you’re mass murdering vampires with some buddies in an attempt to increase your combat level. An individual or group comes into your area of operation and starts stealing your mobs. They flag up and kill you and your group. You now need to revive, repair, run back to your grind spot. But the time involved and the immanent threat if you return now loses everyone in the groups interest and the group disbands.
Regardless of your playstyle, everybody loses when you don’t have PVE only and PVP only servers. PVPers that once screamed bloody mary over games separating PVE and PVP players now regret it. I speak from experience. I’m not trying to belittle anybody or call anyone names or tell them to play another game. In order for a community to thrive we need as many players here as possible. More money means more content. More content means more player retention and the desirability for all of this to make AoC our “home” game.
Every good MMO in this genre lately has taken up this “force PvP” stance. It makes me very sad. We need to lure ALL players here, not a select few.
</blockquote>
If you read everything Dygz wrote you will see that he wants to make alts to gank lowbies just to grief people…
The thing about the pve and pvp servers that you simple refuse to not see is that the Devs are making the game so that each server needs both to function. Either understand that is what they are going for at this moment. Who knows, it may change but from what I’ve heard and seen so far the game you want is not the game they want to make.
</blockquote>
Dygz is simply playing devil’s advocate and explaining why he feels the deterrents described for Ashes won’t work against people who are dead set on ruining people’s days.
[/quote]
And I agree with him. Not to mention the fact that tens of millions of PVE MMO players will see "just another forced PvP game like BDO and ArcheAge" and never even try this game. The devs are seriously backing themselves into a corner here. Not my company though. I can only appeal to their business ambitions and hope they change it to include both PVE and PVP servers. Advertising that will net them alot more customers than sticking to the whole forced PvP model.
Personally, as long as the built in deterrents work so that the game doesn't devolve into a sociopath's paradise, I'm perfectly OK with the system as is. And if they don't work, I'm sure the developers will change things in alpha until they do. At the very least, I'm willing to give it a try before completely poo-pooing what they have in mind.
Tons of MMORPG players love that. Many of whom are interested in monetarily supporting all the other mechanics in the AoC game design... as long as they don't have to deal with PvP combat.
But, yeah, the devs are hoping that forcing both playstyles on the same server will motivate the PvErs to support PvPers via crafting. Just like they're hoping that halving the xp debt for dying while flagged as combatant will motivate non-combatants to flag for PvP.
Which is kinda bizarre from the PvEer perspective.
We'll see how well that actually works out if the game ever launches.
That's a tough call. What value is there in being able to just kill someone whenever you want? Would taking that way drive off the hardrcore pvpers who just want to run around killing mindlessly (getting corruption, hunted down, murdered and potentially losing something important)? Or are those caravan attacks and city and castle sieges, as well as whatever 'arena' type pvp might exist, enough to satisfy them?
I don't really see a point in separating pvp and pve servers. It could simply be that people are only auto-flagged to be attackable in 'pvp content', but could manually flag themselves as combatant at any time, meaning you can choose when you want to pvp whenever, and are automatically flagged in content designed for pvp. That would be 'the compromise' that makes the most sense to me.
p.s. - By the way, @Trip nice pic you got there.
Despite the OP's claims that there are tens of millions of pve players and this game is doom to fail , the market is big enough for a game like this to be successful. Archeage had over two million players when in launch for NA/EU regions and it would still have a large player base today if it wasn't so badly mishandled by XL and Trion.
That's a tough call. What value is there in being able to just kill someone whenever you want? Would taking that way drive off the hardrcore pvpers who just want to run around killing mindlessly (getting corruption, hunted down, murdered and potentially losing something important)? Or are those caravan attacks and city and castle sieges, as well as whatever 'arena' type pvp might exist, enough to satisfy them?
I don't really see a point in separating pvp and pve servers. It could simply be that people are only auto-flagged to be attackable in 'pvp content', but could manually flag themselves as combatant at any time, meaning you can choose when you want to pvp whenever, and are automatically flagged in content designed for pvp. That would be 'the compromise' that makes the most sense to me.
p.s. - By the way, @Trip nice pic you got there.
Players killing players does not affect node any of the node degradation significantly.
The intended Yin/Yang is that non-combatants will craft in order to support combatants while the combatants will protect the non-combatants.
Which combatants seem to think is fair.
Non-combatants really don’t want to play that way."</strong><em></blockquote>
@Dygz: The above is a quote of yours, from a long post that I decided not to include all of, because I wanted to focus on this one specific item.
I disagree with your assertion that it's really PvE that destroys, as opposed to PvP.
Absolutely, there are aspects of PvE that contribute to destruction, as well as creation. PvE actions such as various forms of crafting, processing, gathering, mob hunting, etc., contribute to the progress of a node. Trade, and a healthy economy, along with everything stated previously, help to keep the node flourishing, thus staving off degradation, which would ultimately lead to destruction. Also, there are the "catalyst events" portrayed by the devs, that would occur as threats to a node, as it levels up. All PvE related, and important.
However, PvP plays an integral part as well. Players attacking caravans, to stymie trade, and deplete a rival cities dominance, seeking to weaken it's grasp on the region, and usher it's downfall. Small skirmishes over areas of limited resources. PvP. Monster tokens, where a non-citizen(s) can attack a city, and try to cause it harm, along with your standard sieges...all PvP.
Yes, PvE helps PvP, with crafting weapons, armor, potions, and the like. But, as you said, PvP makes sure said items get safely to their destination. If those items that PvE players are pumping out are just stagnating in the store houses, then that node ain't popping. Degradation.
lol, And yes, I know that you're playing devil's advocate for all the hardline PvE'ers. :)
I fully understand that that works for people who like PvP combat.
It’s meaningless to carebears who have no interest in fighting other players.
Carebears can RP reasons to siege a castle without killing other players.
[/quote]
IMO that is a rp reason. A bandit(player) tries take attack me because he wants my stuff or just doesn't like my face. I find the bandit home and attack it. How is that not rp?
On a side note, to me you just said Carebears can RP reasons to kill players and destroy their homes without killing other players...
[quote quote=17238]
And I agree with him. Not to mention the fact that tens of millions of PVE MMO players will see “just another forced PvP game like BDO and ArcheAge” and never even try this game. The devs are seriously backing themselves into a corner here. Not my company though. I can only appeal to their business ambitions and hope they change it to include both PVE and PVP servers. Advertising that will net them alot more customers than sticking to the whole forced PvP model.
[/quote]
You are saying they are backing themselves in a corner but that's like saying COD's devs are backing themselves in a corner because they aren't making a rpg. The devs have said that pvp and conflict are a core part of there game.
Tens of millions of PVE MMO players...where are you getting those facts. I'm pretty sure you are being dishonest. If you have statistics that say that, how are you sure that all those people are as intolerant of pvp as you are?
Personally, as long as the built in deterrents work so that the game doesn’t devolve into a sociopath’s paradise, I’m perfectly OK with the system as is. And if they don’t work, I’m sure the developers will change things in alpha until they do. At the very least, I’m willing to give it a try before completely poo-pooing what they have in mind.[/quote]
I hope everyone appreciates all of the feedback - that's what the forums are for.
Typically the quickest way to rile up an MMORPG forums is to debate PvP/PvE or discuss both playstyles sharing the same server - so I'm glad that we've been able to keep this friendly... so far.
For most of the past 15 years, I've thought of myself as a PvP hater.
But, while were debating on the EQNext forums a few years ago how the two playstyles could play together on the same server, I realized that I'm really a PvP-sometimes guy.
The first 10 years of playing MMORPGs, I'd try playing on PvP-optional servers so I could have the option to flag for PvP whenever I was in the mood to defend a village or a town from an attack by players.
But, I would always end up getting ganked after I was tired of PvP, but still flagged while trying to hit some of my other quotas before logging out. Always happens enough that I soon only played on PvE servers.
I like the idea of both PvPers and PvEers sharing the same server because I've got lots of friends in the MMORPG community who love PvP.
I would love to hang out with in-game. I don't want to PvP with them. I don't want to support their PvP efforts. But, I would love to explore with them and visit their homes and have parties and fight mobs with them. Pretty much everything there is to do in an MMORPG except PvP combat. So I would love to find a solution where everyone would enjoy sharing the same server.
One of the endeavors I want to undertake in AoC is setting up a freehold with a bakery and share my wares with passersby. What types of baked goods would make me a server reknowned baker? And what kinds of buffs would those goodies provide? I guess I'm willing to try to pretend that no one will be using those buffs to engage in PvP combat.
As a PvP-sometimes guy, I foresee times when I will motivated to kill some players. Not that I really want to kill some players, but..
If that new bridge over the river impedes my supply of fish for my fish tacos, I might feel complelled to destroy that bridge. And if I have to kill a few players guarding the bridge to accomplish that, well, they will just have to die. Oops.
I'll try to use diplomacy first.
The PvP combat design isn't a dealbreaker for me... I'm a PvP-sometimes guy, but...
I can see why PvP-haters aren't going to be enticed to play this game.
We'll just have to see if we have enough PvE-sometimes folk who are willing to support the PvPers the way the devs envision.
Despite the OP’s claims that there are tens of millions of pve players and this game is doom to fail , the market is big enough for a game like this to be successful. Archeage had over two million players when in launch for NA/EU regions and it would still have a large player base today if it wasn’t so badly mishandled by XL and Trion.
[/quote]
I agree with Kyrios_the_Hierophant here. Just because this game will not cater to the PVE Solo player by having PVE only servers does not mean this game is doomed. This game had gotten the 750K needed to help finish some goals of the project in 12 hours. That means there are a lot of people that want to play this older style MMORPG that does not follow the same old MMORPG formula. Stabby has no statistic and is just saying there are other players like him that want a PVE only server. Yep there is but this game is not a game designed for that. I understand people want it but it will change the core of Ashes.
WoW is a game that has been established for decades.
Asking them to remove features that have already been implemented is not at all the same as asking a dev team with a pre-alpha game to include a toggle for PvP combat.
What's being asked for doesn't actually need to change any of the mechanics at all.
All the devs need to do is designate a server - similar to an RP server where the ruleset is no PvP.
The issue has nothing to do with the development of the game or even the design of the features.
The issue is in the actual gameplay - the devs fear that there wouldn't be enough PvErs supporting the PvPers if they don't force them to play on the same server. Because they understand how much PvErs hate PvP. Given a choice, the vast majority of them would play on the PvE servers.
People aren't really being negative. In my view, yours has been the most negative voice, IIRC.
People are explaining why PvRers want their own server. And some of the PvEers are explaining why they won't be backing AoC if there is no separate PvE server.
Which is OK if they don't.
Devs primarily make the MMORPG they'd want to play.
Pantheon is ridiculous in my view. So was Shadowbane's game design (and Crowfall's design is becoming more ridiculous each month), the Saga of Lucimia game design is delusional in my view. They'll be lucky if they get 100 players.
Can't please all og the people all of the time...
But, the forums are here for us to share our perspectives.
Sometimes what people want to share are the ways they wish the game was different. And the ways they wish the game would change.
That is OK. And it's OK for you to disagree with them
[quote quote=17260]
IMO that is a rp reason. A bandit(player) tries take attack me because he wants my stuff or just doesn’t like my face. I find the bandit home and attack it. How is that not rp?
On a side note, to me you just said Carebears can RP reasons to kill players and destroy their homes without killing other players… [/quote]
Why would you add in something I didn't say, though?
I didn't say anything like "A bandit trying to attack you because he wants to take your stuff isn't RP."
It's flimsy RP - it's just a lame excuse to PK. But that is still RP. Anything that isn't OOC is RP.
What I did say is that carebears can RP reasons to destroy their homes without killing other players:
The fast travel network has become cursed, so they need to destroy the Science Metropolis in order to deactivate the fast travel network. Those carebears who live in the Science Metropolis and who live in the nearby Divine Metropolis can siege the Science Metropolis without killing other players.
Why would destroying homes have to include killing players???
Makes no sense that you would add that into what I wrote.
[quote]You are saying they are backing themselves in a corner but that’s like saying COD’s devs are backing themselves in a corner because they aren’t making a rpg. The devs have said that pvp and conflict are a core part of there game.[/quote]
Your analogy doesn't work because the COD devs are not making an RPG while the AoC devs are making an RPG.
Why would you add in something I didn’t say, though?
I didn’t say anything like “A bandit trying to attack you because he wants to take your stuff isn’t RP.”
It’s flimsy RP – it’s just a lame excuse to PK. But that is still RP. Anything that isn’t OOC is RP.
What I did say is that carebears can RP reasons to destroy their homes without killing other players:
The fast travel network has become cursed, so they need to destroy the Science Metropolis in order to deactivate the fast travel network. Those carebears who live in the Science Metropolis and who live in the nearby Divine Metropolis can siege the Science Metropolis without killing other players.
Why would destroying homes have to include killing players???
Makes no sense that you would add that into what I wrote.
Your analogy doesn’t work because the COD devs are not making an RPG while the AoC devs are making an RPG.
[/quote]
Actually my analog has worked perfectly. Yes cod's devs aren't making a rpg and the devs here have said pvp is a core part of their game so why does it need a server that strips that out?
I see what you are saying with your rp siege and i guess if you could get everyone on the same page that would work. I was figuring a siege needed defenders but if everyone is for destroying this thing then you are right.
There doesn't need to be PvE'ers to support pvpers. Pvpers do pve. Any pvper playing an rpg shouldn't be surprised if they need to do some pve to advance. It was always a core part of RPGs.
<div class="d4p-bbt-quote-title"><a href="https://www.ashesofcreation.com/forums/topic/please-dont-force-us-to-be-victims-of-pvpers/page/3/#post-17022" rel="nofollow">Bringslite wrote:</a></div>
Since there can only be 5 Metropolises on a server, how would that play out in a non pvp server?
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I don’t understand the question.
It will play out that the carebears cooperatively build 5 Metropolises on the server.
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OK but what if some other part of the server wants a metropolis? How do they get the opportunity to have one if there can only be 5?
OK but what if some other part of the server wants a metropolis? How do they get the opportunity to have one if there can only be 5?[/quote]
They have a discussion and decide how they wish to handle it.
Node resources are finite, so the locations of the Metropolises will change over time anyways.
Maybe the players decide on a time fixed time limit for the existence of a Metropolis and then they tear each down when it's time to start a new one.
Similar to nomads.
Actually my analog has worked perfectly. Yes cod’s devs aren’t making a rpg and the devs here have said pvp is a core part of their game so why does it need a server that strips that out?[/quote]
Nope. Those two concepts are not analogous.
Have a server with the ruleset of no PvP because there are paying customers who would like to play there - just as there will be paying customers who would like to play on an RP server.
[quote]There doesn’t need to be PvE’ers to support pvpers. Pvpers do pve. Any pvper playing an rpg shouldn’t be surprised if they need to do some pve to advance. It was always a core part of RPGs.[/quote]
Non-combatants acting as support for combatants is a key component in the devs' vision of their game design.
That PvPers will be doing some PvE also is beside the point.
If all the devs needed was PvPers on the normal servers, having a PvE server wouldn't be an issue.
There really isn't any other reason not to support a pvE server because there's no extra work for them that is significantly different from having an RP server.
Only the Vanilla players understand what AoC is trying to rekindle to some extent.
Vanilla WoW had epic open world PvP, No Flying, No LFG, getting things done took time and dedication. Raiding was done by 0.1 and only 2 of those 40 raiders would get loot. While the of the population and didn't even care because the community interacted. There was no "End Game" only "Play Time"
Sure getting ganked sucked, but if you opened up to the community they would typically help.
All this trickling spoon fed instant gratification has made the MMO genre a steaming turd.
*Take for example the 5 metropolises thing... A group of players that has worked hard to build up a Metropolis (and don't forget their wonderful houses in that metropolis that have gotten nicer and more valuable as their city grows) is going to cooperate with the server to knock their work down so another group can have one?
*No PVP, just AI controlled NPCs to stimulate world change , all conflict, pretty much reason for all stories? Can you name AI so powerful that it could operate at a level that keeps a game from being VERY boring within a few days? Nothing is as creative as humans when they have to compete against humans.
*On your PVE only server... are there always enough mobs for everyone to grind on when they have time to play? Are there always enough resources for everyone to have as much as they could ever want at any given time? Is there enough gear churn via PVE ONLY that crafters get to keep as busy as they like to stay satisfied?
*Does that REALLY sound like a fun game, one in which EVERYTHING you need is always there for you? If everything I need isn't always there because other players got to it first, can I consider that PVP and a ruination of my evening play plans?
What I wonder is what about Ashes of Creation anti PVPers are attracted to? The features that make it new and different are largely centered around having to compete with other players. If those features are not what attracted you to AOC, then what exactly did?
https://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1791529601/ashes-of-creation-new-mmorpg-by-intrepid-studios/description
Please watch the vid and think about what they say about player driven Conflict. Also there is a corruption system if that is not enough for you, this is not the game for you as hard as it may sound. Do not try to change the game into something it is not.