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Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
My thoughts on Cleric in the livestream30/06/2017
Hi Community,
I am a support main and as happy as I am with the information we received, I am also disappointed in their design approach to the Cleric class.
Here's what I think.
Cleric dealing damage and healing is a great mechanic. It adds more value to their gameplay and a risk vs reward element.
However, making this sort of gameplay as the "base" gameplay of a cleric has now pigeonhole clerics to be a dps/healer class. I cannot imagine any augments that will take this sort of mechanic out of a dps/healer role and into a pure support role.
I would have much prefer that the base class of cleric be mainly support. And if you augment them with a fighter/rogue/summoner/archer/mage class, you will gain new mechanics to be a dps/healer.
But now that the cleric is a dps/healer from the start, it would not make sense for any new augment to change a healer to pure support. Going healer/healer should in theory only amplify the dps/healing mechanic. Going healer/bard, healer/tank might bring about a pure support role, but it just wouldn't make much sense since a bard and tanks aren't pure supports to begin with.
As someone who enjoys playing pure support roles, I feel left out. Will intrepid see this post and maybe re-vision their cleric gameplay?
I am a support main and as happy as I am with the information we received, I am also disappointed in their design approach to the Cleric class.
Here's what I think.
Cleric dealing damage and healing is a great mechanic. It adds more value to their gameplay and a risk vs reward element.
However, making this sort of gameplay as the "base" gameplay of a cleric has now pigeonhole clerics to be a dps/healer class. I cannot imagine any augments that will take this sort of mechanic out of a dps/healer role and into a pure support role.
I would have much prefer that the base class of cleric be mainly support. And if you augment them with a fighter/rogue/summoner/archer/mage class, you will gain new mechanics to be a dps/healer.
But now that the cleric is a dps/healer from the start, it would not make sense for any new augment to change a healer to pure support. Going healer/healer should in theory only amplify the dps/healing mechanic. Going healer/bard, healer/tank might bring about a pure support role, but it just wouldn't make much sense since a bard and tanks aren't pure supports to begin with.
As someone who enjoys playing pure support roles, I feel left out. Will intrepid see this post and maybe re-vision their cleric gameplay?
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Comments
You're absolutely right about old games making it difficult for healers to grind pve content solo. That's why we see alot of hybrid dps/healers in newer games. But why did they do that? Because they want people to solo content. Not play together.
But what I miss most about healer class is being a pure healer. The talk about bringing back the nostalgia of MMORPG, bringing back the trinity, bringing back community and group play, bringing back choice and variety, bringing back risk vs reward.
I'm willing to take the risk and hardship that comes with being a pure support, because I find the role rewarding and fun to play.
I'm not saying everyone has to play pure support. If they choose to augment their healer with fighter/rouge/archer/mage/summoner, then they can choose to do so. They can choose to solo if they want. But with the way it's set up right now, anyone that wants to play pure support is not allowed to exist within the game.
That's why I'm disappointed. I was looking for a MMORPG that would fulfill my nostalgia of going pure support which is hard to find in new MMORPGs.
What I mean @Valentines is that (to me at any rate) the damage they do is what results in or powers the heals/healing that clerics do/will do to some extent.
To me it is a welcome variation to healing coming directly or solely from a divine source. jmho
*yes, this was a Full Metal Alchemist anime reference
I like the idea of equivalent exchange. I hope it's a variant with a secondary class rather than just the primary class. I'm not against the mechanic itself, it's a great mechanic and has depth to it. I just hope it's not the core mechanic of a primary healer. It's has the vibe of dps/healer hybrid written all over it, which I've grown to disdain in recent MMORPGs.
I guess I might have jumped the gun alittle. We don't know if this is just one part of the healer skill tree(dps/healer skills), and there would be an avenue to select that pure healer role I crave. I'll wait patiently for more information release.
The spin on the healer role removed it from it's classical arch type into a more dps/healer hybrid which makes me worried. I mean... they could still innovate the "roles", like the tank, while keeping it true to it's core arch type.
My other thoughts on the archer and mage is that they seem very lack luster compare to the tank. Though that is somewhat outside this topic.
Hopefully they just wanna throw some of the more interactive spells into the mix early on so the public gets a general sense of their "not just sit back and heal" type idea.
Either that or get used to clerics of Ashes being the masters of life. And a sub-archetype of Cleric being the more peaceful/Healy one (Cleric bard maybe). Heh.
Definitely not classic MMORPG trinity.
Creating a Healer
The healer provides aid to members of their adventuring company, the soldiers of their religion, or to the alliance to which they are pledged. When a battlefield is strewn with wounded allies or an expedition team’s members are sorely hurt, a healer cures the injuries of the faithful and those who have allied themselves with the side of good. A healer might accept a commission to escort a company or war band on a dangerous mission, making themselves available to cast divine protection and offer divine healing. The healer is much revered for their services, and they may ask their companions for daily praise to their deity---or at least an equal share in any reward garnered after the successful conclusion of the adventure or military action.
As a devoted user of healing and the divine, you have access to cleric spells. However, you cannot choose any spell that does damage or causes the target(s) to make a saving throw.
I also never played pathfinder. Ill look it up to see where they are drawing their inspiration from.
Also, in D&D 3.5, the cleric has Heavy Armor Proficiency. This can qualify them as a front line fighter too. Use of feats such as channel smite and guided hand also allow them to be front line fighters. While they do not put out the dps a fighter does, they are still given the option.
You're debating my favorite class in TTRPGs. My main PC is a lvl17 Cleric (Steel Valkyrie archetype)
EDIT: Oh yea. *drops the mic* Not trying to be an ass btw. I hope you're right about the weapon thing
A hybrid is more self sufficient and doesnt need to rely on others. Theres obvious benefits to that. I would even agree that your idea of cleric is more viable than my idea of a cleric. But im not looking for max/min viable build. Im looking for freedom to customize my character to my exact specifications, even if i might gimp my survivability and damage in the process.
I honestly have no problem with it, and I don't believe that you players will be pigeonholed to play as a a hybrid class, if they choose not to. Granted, I have no hard information to go off of, but with weapons being agnostic and playing a huge role in how classes are played, as well as the choices we'll have within the horizontal progression, I'm sure you can fashion a cleric "close" to what you wish for.
Does that mean that the dps component intrinsic in the clerics healing skills will be completely negated? I can't honestly say. But, it'll be interesting to see how things progress from here. Remember, this game is still early in development, so everthing we've heard so far is subject to change.
But, if you ask me, I'm totally fine with how they envision the cleric. Even with the dps, it's still not a dps class. It is a full support class...just with at little dps flavor, added to the heals, as opposed to seperating the two, as most other games do. But, I understand that everyone has their preferences. I hope that, however it turns out, you still give it a try. You never know. It might not be that bad.
For those who never played it, I think WS had the best take on dps/support role. Where every single class could either dps, or tank/heal. With multiple build you can switch on instantly in between fights, you could have healing or dps spec for the appropriate content.
I guess here you could take a secondary class (augments?) to fill that second build you need, but still, having only 1 tank, 1 healer and 6 dps feels really wierd to me.
But again, they said most encounter were open world, and we all know open world encounter does not require any class specialisation because it is just a mindless zerg of unlimited respawns. So no tank/healer would be necessary anyway.