My thoughts on Cleric in the livestream30/06/2017

ArchivedUser

Neviathan said:

Support isnt just buffs, debuffs and heals, damage also helps the group because it means the exposed duration to incoming damage is shorter.

Especially the leech ground heal if interesting, when DPS guys get low on health they can pop their strongest (AoE) dmg skill or ultimate and instantly be healed by a percentage of the inflicted dmg. This means good DPS guys heal themselves more which allows the healer to focus more on the tank, keeping the buffs/debuffs up and dealing dmg.

Sounds nothing like the boring back-line healer but more like a blood mage. Could be interesting to build a Cleric dmg dealer now I think about it.

Lots of non mainstream mmos support healer dps classes. Old mmos like City of Heroes also had them. They are fun classes and served a purpose as off healers and off dps to help out the main dps and the healer. You can also build Templar builds in ESO that are the same and Guardian builds like this in GW2. Vanguard had a dps/healer in its Monk Variant, the Disciple. My personal favorite class in the game as I prefer playing dps/heals who melee.

ArchivedUser

Again, for you guys looking to play more support roles, I suggest you wait for Bard and consider augmenting with either Mage or Cleric.

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

I understand your viewpoint. I will simply point out that they're making a game where the classes do have specific roles, rather than several classes being able to do a broad set of roles. As I understand it, I believe the Bard is the more support-focused class you're looking for, while the Cleric is (so far) the only real "Healer" class they have. As such, it will likely be, and remain, more healing focused than broadly supportive.

I will throw in here that I really love what Rift began, and then developed, with their classes. Each class, now, can do all roles that are called for in a game, and all the roles are cogent within that class's archetype. So a Rogue tank tanks primarily with high levels of evasion, while a Mage tank tanks with lots of magic/shields/etc. It's a great concept that allows players to make "their" perfect class build; in short, it would allow you to make your Cleric support, rather than Heals/DPS or whatever. I don't see IS doing this, but I did want to point out a brilliant idea.

Never had a chance to play Rift, but I heard something along the lines of what you're talking about, in reference to their class setup, @Isende.  

Granted, classes being truly agnostic, as far as roles, sounds like a really cool idea.  But, I also heard that RIFT had balancing issues, related to the...Class Soul System?....or, something to that effect. 

ArchivedUser

Isende said:

I understand your viewpoint. I will simply point out that they're making a game where the classes do have specific roles, rather than several classes being able to do a broad set of roles. As I understand it, I believe the Bard is the more support-focused class you're looking for, while the Cleric is (so far) the only real "Healer" class they have. As such, it will likely be, and remain, more healing focused than broadly supportive.

I will throw in here that I really love what Rift began, and then developed, with their classes. Each class, now, can do all roles that are called for in a game, and all the roles are cogent within that class's archetype. So a Rogue tank tanks primarily with high levels of evasion, while a Mage tank tanks with lots of magic/shields/etc. It's a great concept that allows players to make "their" perfect class build; in short, it would allow you to make your Cleric support, rather than Heals/DPS or whatever. I don't see IS doing this, but I did want to point out a brilliant idea.

There's nothing worse than every class being able to do everything, kills a game fast and removes the uniqueness of the classes.

ArchivedUser

Dragonpriest said:

Isende said:

I understand your viewpoint. I will simply point out that they're making a game where the classes do have specific roles, rather than several classes being able to do a broad set of roles. As I understand it, I believe the Bard is the more support-focused class you're looking for, while the Cleric is (so far) the only real "Healer" class they have. As such, it will likely be, and remain, more healing focused than broadly supportive.

I will throw in here that I really love what Rift began, and then developed, with their classes. Each class, now, can do all roles that are called for in a game, and all the roles are cogent within that class's archetype. So a Rogue tank tanks primarily with high levels of evasion, while a Mage tank tanks with lots of magic/shields/etc. It's a great concept that allows players to make "their" perfect class build; in short, it would allow you to make your Cleric support, rather than Heals/DPS or whatever. I don't see IS doing this, but I did want to point out a brilliant idea.

There's nothing worse than every class being able to do everything, kills a game fast and removes the uniqueness of the classes.

On the flip side of that, there's also nothing really unique about a Tank tanking, a Healer healing, or a Fighter fighting, etc etc.  For the most part, it's all been done before.  The "uniqueness" comes in how the simple class choices are formatted/presented to the player, and how the players build them/flesh them out.

Granted, some may not like the idea of being able to "merge" multiple classes together, to create hybridized iterations.  Some may prefer a more classic feel. 

Ashes is probably a balance between the two, imo.  Players can combine Primary/Secondary classes, while still maintaining the classic feel, through the primary class still being ascendant, in regards to role.

ArchivedUser

freespiryt said:

Isende said:

I understand your viewpoint. I will simply point out that they're making a game where the classes do have specific roles, rather than several classes being able to do a broad set of roles. As I understand it, I believe the Bard is the more support-focused class you're looking for, while the Cleric is (so far) the only real "Healer" class they have. As such, it will likely be, and remain, more healing focused than broadly supportive.

I will throw in here that I really love what Rift began, and then developed, with their classes. Each class, now, can do all roles that are called for in a game, and all the roles are cogent within that class's archetype. So a Rogue tank tanks primarily with high levels of evasion, while a Mage tank tanks with lots of magic/shields/etc. It's a great concept that allows players to make "their" perfect class build; in short, it would allow you to make your Cleric support, rather than Heals/DPS or whatever. I don't see IS doing this, but I did want to point out a brilliant idea.

Never had a chance to play Rift, but I heard something along the lines of what you're talking about, in reference to their class setup, @Isende.  

Granted, classed being truly agnostic, as far as roles, sounds like a really cool idea.  But, I also heard that RIFT had balancing issues, related to the...Class Soul System?....or, something to that effect. 

Meh, I think it was a lot more that people couldn't be "uber" in everything. Knowing that your class can do tanky stuff doesn't make you a good tank. As a healer, healing behind tanks of all description, I can say that some were easier, some were harder, but over all, you get that in healing varieties of tanks anyway.

I know that the core Rift community that I was familiar with tended to scoff at "balance" issues, which really only seemed to arise during PvP. In other words, again, it seemed to me that there was a lot of grief from players who thought "Hey, man, I'm using this XYZ recommended build, but it sucks, I can't live forever with it!" The regular players tended to have a bit of a L2P attitude about a lot of it, lol.

Dragonpriest said:

There's nothing worse than every class being able to do everything, kills a game fast and removes the uniqueness of the classes.

Your opinion, of course. My opinion is different; learning the different ways that different classes need to stat, for instance, to be effective certainly made the classes different from each other. Be that as it may, I recognize your stated opinion.

ArchivedUser

Shirikuryu said:

Neviathan said:

Support isnt just buffs, debuffs and heals, damage also helps the group because it means the exposed duration to incoming damage is shorter.

Especially the leech ground heal if interesting, when DPS guys get low on health they can pop their strongest (AoE) dmg skill or ultimate and instantly be healed by a percentage of the inflicted dmg. This means good DPS guys heal themselves more which allows the healer to focus more on the tank, keeping the buffs/debuffs up and dealing dmg.

Sounds nothing like the boring back-line healer but more like a blood mage. Could be interesting to build a Cleric dmg dealer now I think about it.

Yeah, I'm not used to the idea of that skill falling under cleric. It sounds like a blood mage to me too. That was getting my nickers in a knot.

I did interpreted the skill differently. I was thinking it was an active AoE field that would leech life from enemies and restore hp to ally based on the life leeched.

Vs.

A field that will give allies life leech depending on the damage they did within the field.

If it was the later, i would consider it a zone buff instead of dps skill.

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Damage also helps the group, but I would argue that damage itself does not fall under the support category. Everyone has damage. If damage = support. Then every single class is a support class. Yes, I can get the idea>kill mob faster = less damage received. But the idea of support is in the name, to aid someone else. The goal of any combat is to kill the enemy. Support goal is to aid the attacker in killing the enemy. Damage itself is the first goal and does not fall under aiding. 

Like any sport game, the person making the goal would be the attacker. The person who assist the goal is the support. That's how I would classify support skills.

Thats true, support usually focuses on staying alive (heals), reducing incoming dmg (debuffs) and increasing outgoing dmg (buffs). The thing is, buffing outgoing group dmg or dealing dmg yourself effectively results in the same thing. 

The problem of making a Cleric just a plain support healer is that he's powerless by himself. Some quests and objectives might be solo which basically screws all Clerics if they dont have dmg options. 

ArchivedUser

Hmmm I don't mind a cleric being a dps/healer as long as they include another more support focused class like maybe Shaman/Druid or a priest. The cleric can turn his/her enemies pain into healing for his/her allies using holy magic. A shaman/Druid can heal his/her allies using power taken from nature, or a Priest can heal his/her allies using magics given to them by some celestial being. I'd say adding more support/healing options would solve that issue.

ArchivedUser

tylerr385 said:

Hmmm I don't mind a cleric being a dps/healer as long as they include another more support focused class like maybe Shaman/Druid or a priest. The cleric can turn his/her enemies pain into healing for his/her allies using holy magic. A shaman/Druid can heal his/her allies using power taken from nature, or a Priest can heal his/her allies using magics given to them by some celestial being. I'd say adding more support/healing options would solve that issue.

*sighs* it will be Bard for additional CC's. If you want to heal you'll have to combo it with Cleric.