More often I find that they get in the way more then are helpful.
Would you mind elaborating on this point? How does a parser make it more difficult to compare the damage of different builds?.
It doesn't, however the whole concept of a higher dps means one build is better then another that parsers are apart of/lead to is often to being top notch in games that are built around more then dps and damage adsorption.. games where tactics apply where cc and ec (environment control) have meaning, building for the highest dps can actually cause you more problems. Which kinda brings me to my other point of the use and "need" of parsers sprang from a failure in game design
If you would like more factual information about ISs stance on meters/parsers, please refer to the following thread, it's been discussed quite a bit already: https://tinyurl.com/meters-and-such
Don't know if you noticed but mycroft was posting in that thread it does have some good reference material to it though
Please, do us all a favour and don't even sign up to Ashes of Creation. Just keep playing your precious parser hero, WoW. Your kind really isn't needed in this game.
I don't even know where to start with this post, except to inform you that it is to late. They took my Braver of Worlds pledge money a long time ago, so you are stuck with me as long as this is a game I'm interested in playing. Which is why I am advocating so hard for features I want to see.
Also, I haven't played WoW since vanilla, but nice try.
games where tactics apply where cc and ec (environment control) have meaning, building for the highest dps can actually cause you more problems.
This is somewhat ironic, considering that my latest MMORPG was Wildstar. Where CCs mattered in a significant number of raid fights, tactics played a big role as only two minibosses could be considered tank and spank, and parsers were an important tool for personal and group improvement. Its almost like players had different builds that they used for different fights, and dps number comparisons were according to each encounter.
I can only say that I in the end I will play the game as Intrepid Studios make it.
However if there will be no parsers to help check who joined the raids to get carried and thus is costing a lots of people their time and resources (equals money), then some other systems will just have to be implemented for raid invites.
I already see "come duel me in arena, and If you beat few of our test warriors you get raid invite", and similar human made performance tests.
But hey, any way it goes down.
I would also love to stress that many players are min maxers, and love to test them selves, push their builds and rotations to get better numbers. These players need a parser to be able to check how much DPS they are pushing out.
Lack of in game parser will just force those players to seek 3rd party tools and extensions. Some of those tools may be legit, many may not.
Not implementing any in game parser, and forcibly blocking some of the legit 3rd party parsers (like ACT), will just push players in reaching for other tools out there, which may compromise the safety of many players. (I know, many here will now say, hey if you care about your safety, don't risk trying out new tools, but the fact of reality is, many players still will...)
I just hope Intrepid will consider this.
Again, the best compromise is to make PARSING private and optional. This way everyone can chose for himself if he wants to use it or no.
And whoever doesn't want to fairly compromise, and wants to push his own philosophy and play style on everyone else.... well he should look hard in the mirror.
It's funny how exactly those people call others elitists, and use other nice adjectives to describe them, while THEY THEMSELVES are the ones wishing to PUSH their own mentality and play style on EVERYONE else. No compromise, no optional and private parsers, nothing. It should be how they wish, and everyone should do it like that.
Yeah, so just keep talking, I think I'm done here.
If you would like more factual information about ISs stance on meters/parsers, please refer to the following thread, it's been discussed quite a bit already: https://tinyurl.com/meters-and-such
Don't know if you noticed but mycroft was posting in that thread it does have some good reference material to it though
Lol, nope, didn't notice. Shows me, huh? Thanks, as always, @Ninja_Shadow! (Now, let's see if that got your name right!)
I don't think the answer is to tell others to not play the game. Nor do I think adding something just to make some players happy is the route to go either.
No PvE servers - made a lot of PvE players mad, they argued for them and Ashes is still saying no. No fast travel - made a lot of players mad (casuals more than hardcore maybe?), they too argued for them and Ashes is still saying no.
Ashes will, in the end, do what they wish. @Gothix brings up a good point "Again, the best compromise is to make PARSING private and optional. This way everyone can chose for himself if he wants to use it or no." But to me private means others can not see, and I believe by optional Gothix is suggesting we can share with others.
I don't see that as a necessity, but @mycroft brings up another good point, it's because that's not my play style.
If you would like more factual information about ISs stance on meters/parsers, please refer to the following thread, it's been discussed quite a bit already: https://tinyurl.com/meters-and-such
Don't know if you noticed but mycroft was posting in that thread it does have some good reference material to it though
Lol, nope, didn't notice. Shows me, huh? Thanks, as always, @Ninja_Shadow! (Now, let's see if that got your name right!)
@ "ninja shadow" it's kinda a pain I know, wonder if I can change it to drop the space @Isende
@mycroft I get the feeling neither one of us is really going to change the others opinions on this, and in the end I don't believe that any amount of argument from us is bing to change the minds of the devs
No PvE servers - made a lot of PvE players mad, they argued for them and Ashes is still saying no. No fast travel - made a lot of players mad (casuals more than hardcore maybe?), they too argued for them and Ashes is still saying no.
No PvE servers is important for their game design, player conflict is key to a lot of their systems. No fast travel is important for their node design, if people want it they'll have to build the right kind of city and not get the bonus of other city types.
I don't know what no parsers is important for, except furthering a misconception about human nature. Elitist jerks will still find a way to be elitist jerks, not including a parser so they can't use it to discriminate is cutting off the nose to spite the face.
Please, do us all a favour and don't even sign up to Ashes of Creation. Just keep playing your precious parser hero, WoW. Your kind really isn't needed in this game.
I don't even know where to start with this post, except to inform you that it is to late. They took my Braver of Worlds pledge money a long time ago, so you are stuck with me as long as this is a game I'm interested in playing. Which is why I am advocating so hard for features I want to see.
Also, I haven't played WoW since vanilla, but nice try.
It's not too late my friend, it's never too late! All you have to do is either not worry about downloading the game when Alpha is available or.. Not try to turn this game shitty by implementing anything WoW used.
This game will be successful because it knows what it wants to be, not because it got turned into a WoW ripoff by Ex-WoW players shovelling WoW features down it's throat.
I understand why you people don't want to use parsers yourself. But what I don't understand is why you're so focused on keeping parsers from the game when others do want to use it.
What at are the downsides for you if other people use parsers? How will that impact your gameplay.
For me it would be a lot more difficult to raid because there's gonna be this one guy who just doesn't give a damn about his effectiveness and fails the raid for the rest of the group. Honestly, it is why I stopped playing dungeons and raids all together in gw2. I got sick of doing my best and then fail because someone else doesn't want to. with the parsers I'll be able to join a likeminded group and do content with them.
If you don't want to min max I'm not blaming you or hating you. It's just not your play style. However, don't ruin it for those that actually do want to progress and join a likeminded group yourself. That way parsers won't have an impact on you.
DPS parsers are not required to hunt around for a guild that says hardcore and join.
These metrics are there to isolate the best and discard all else. Their use necessitates killing off any kind of variety because anything but the best is redundant. All you end up with is FoTM builds, gear and playstyles and a game full of min maxers will use nothing else.
This mentality is not only applied to gear...but then carried over to other players. The players are not here for you to cherry pick and discard like every other possession in your life.
Like guns, DPS meters are not the problem. Its the people that use them to discard players and encouraging that mentality. Its an exclusion device and MMOs are not about exclusion. Plenty of multiplayer games for that.
Sanguine, choleric, melancholic and phlegmatic. Please be more openminded guys, everyone plays for different reasons. Let the elitists form their groups and parse their raid to their hearts content. You find a group that suits your temperament. After all, if you aren't a choleric/melancholic you probably play more for immersion and connecting with other people.
By not allowing parsers you will just shoot yourself in the foot, because what are you trying to accomplish: trying to join a group of people you dont mesh with, who would look down on you if they knew your gear is worse and consider you a leech? Your selfrespect shouldn't allow that and if you aren't an elitist why bother what other people do?
I understand why you people don't want to use parsers yourself. But what I don't understand is why you're so focused on keeping parsers from the game when others do want to use it.
For me it would be a lot more difficult to raid because there's gonna be this one guy who just doesn't give a damn about his effectiveness and fails the raid for the rest of the group. Honestly, it is why I stopped playing dungeons and raids all together in gw2. I got sick of doing my best and then fail because someone else doesn't want to. with the parsers I'll be able to join a likeminded group and do content with them.
They want to keep the parsers away from the game because THEY WANT TO BE THAT GUY that doesn't care about his effectiveness. They want to get carried, and they don't want to be called out on that, and kicked from raid. They want to keep their free rides.
This is more than obvious for anyone with half the brain.
Otherwise, if they really wished join raids with likeminded people that do not care about parsers at all, then the existance of parsers wouldn't bother them at all, since their raids would opt to not use them.
This is very much clear, but those people are just like that, and they will keep posting here and complaining, and will ofc say lies about their reasons, as expected.
The only fair compromise, and the MIDDLE GROUND is to include parsers as OPTIONAL. The side extremes, are (A) not to include them at all, or (B) to set them as mandatory, and not able to be toggled off.
Yeah, what he said. If I want to drive around my town with trucknuts hanging from my trailer hitch with a noose hanging from my rearview mirror, and a white hood on, who am I hurting? Being a racist **** isn't hurting YOU. I should be allowed to express my individuality and use whatever tools I want to exclude others, if you don't like it, tough shit snowflake. (Sarcasm implied, for those with weak comprehension)
Being a racist **** isn't hurting YOU. I should be allowed to express my individuality and use whatever tools I want to exclude others, if you don't like it, tough shit snowflake. (Sarcasm implied, for those with weak comprehension)
To compare people that want to parse their DPS with racists (sarcasm or no) is just plain ****. Nothing else to say about that...
To compare everyone who doesn't want your options with "obvious carry wannabes / leecher wannabes." right after trying to slam my racist comparison is irony at its finest.
To compare everyone who doesn't want your options with "obvious carry wannabes / leecher wannabes." right after trying to slam my racist comparison is irony at its finest.
If you are blind, and haven't read (A) (B) (C) in my post, I do not vote for (A) a mandatory parsing for everyone.
I vote for middle ground (B) which is optional parsing for those that want.
You are however voting for (C) no parsing for anyone, not even optional, so please. I know who you are. We all know.
I also know who you are. When your arguments for pvp with no penalties or tools that promote elitism are criticized by the community at large you throw a fit. I enjoy these blowups you have every couple of days over things that you ultimately will have no input in deciding the final product. But your incessant shouting does keep drawing attention as to why they will ignore a vocal, toxic minority to squash such behavior. The calls of "if they don't let us have parsers, we will just use third-party mods that break the TOS" I find among the best chuckle-inducing. Every single one of your ilk I find in game will be reported at every opportunity for things that are against the TOS or bannable.
I also know who you are. When your arguments for pvp with no penalties or tools that promote elitism are criticized by the community at large you throw a fit. I enjoy these blowups you have every couple of days over things that you ultimately will have no input in deciding the final product. But your incessant shouting does keep drawing attention as to why they will ignore a vocal, toxic minority to squash such behavior. The calls of "if they don't let us have parsers, we will just use third-party mods that break the TOS" I find among the best chuckle-inducing. Every single one of your ilk I find in game will be reported at every opportunity for things that are against the TOS or bannable.
Just another show of your exaggeration, and lies. Since you have no real arguments that's all you can do.
I did not say "WE will use TOS breaking tools", I just pointed out that part of players might reach out for 3rd party tools that may compromise their security, as concern.
Also my "blowups" and "incessant shouting"... lol, yeah I'm pulling my hear out here... just because of you lol.
Please stop posting, because if you only know how to post lies, and exaggerated things completely modified away from truth and taken out of perspective, then noone wants to hear you.
(A) mandatory parsers - can't be toggled OFF by anyone (B) OPTIONAL parsers - who wants them can use them (or not) (C) no parsers at all for anyone
Middle ground is obvious, but you are a guy that doesn't want middle ground, you just want what fits to you, and you want to push it on everyone.
I never liked people like you, noone likes people like you. Think about it.
I on the other hand could easily vote for (A), but I don't because I'm better person than you, and I vote for middle ground, a fair compromise.
When you realize that, you might become a better man. Maybe.
I also know who you are. When your arguments for pvp with no penalties or tools that promote elitism are criticized by the community at large you throw a fit. I enjoy these blowups you have every couple of days over things that you ultimately will have no input in deciding the final product. But your incessant shouting does keep drawing attention as to why they will ignore a vocal, toxic minority to squash such behavior. The calls of "if they don't let us have parsers, we will just use third-party mods that break the TOS" I find among the best chuckle-inducing. Every single one of your ilk I find in game will be reported at every opportunity for things that are against the TOS or bannable.
Just another show of your exaggeration, and lies. Since you have no real arguments that's all you can do.
I did not say "WE will use TOS breaking tools", I just said part of players might reach out for 3rd party tools that may compromise their security, as concern.
Also my "blowups" and "incessant shouting"... lol, yeah I'm pulling my hear out here... just because of you lol.
Please stop posting, because if you only know how to post lies, and exaggerated things completely modified away from truth and taken out of perspective, then noone wants to hear you.
(A) mandatory parsers - can't be toggled OFF by anyone (B) OPTIONAL parsers - who wants them can use them (or not) (C) no parsers at all for anyone
Middle ground is obvious, but you are a guy that doesn't want middle ground, you just want what fits to you, and you want to push it on everyone.
I never liked people like you, noone likes people like you. Think about it.
I on the other hand could easily vote for (A), but I don't because I'm better person than you, and I vote for middle ground, a fair compromise.
When you realize that, you might become a better man. Maybe.
The middle ground seems like an overall good decision. That way we that want to progress and better ourselves can do so and others that don't want to can choose so.
The middle ground seems like an overall good decision. That way we that want to progress and better ourselves can do so and others that don't want to can choose so.
People who don't want to use parsers don't want to progress and better themselves? Good to know.
Gee I wonder why people so many people are against parsers.
The middle ground seems like an overall good decision. That way we that want to progress and better ourselves can do so and others that don't want to can choose so.
People who don't want to use parsers don't want to progress and better themselves? Good to know.
Gee I wonder why people so many people are against parsers.
I've asked why people don't want parsers. That's the clearest answer I got. Don't blame me, blame the ones who answered.
I'm not a big fan of in game stats of any kind. Would much rather see a website based statistics about deaths and achievements including highest DPS hit
Not try to turn this game shitty by implementing anything WoW used.
This is truly an absurd stance. Fantasy theme, out. Tab targetting, out. Templates/telegraphs, out. Mage, out. Tanks, out. Bows, out. Quests, out. XP, out. Towns, out. NPCs, out. Client server system, out. Executable file to run the game, out. Did they ever release a Linux client? Looks like that will be the only supported operating system.
Or we can stop being ridiculous and violently against anything WoW, and take things on their own merits. "WoW did it" is a terrible reason to not include something, especially something like parsers that were around before WoW.
By the way, when I was playing WoW, the only parsers were from third party addons. I don't know if they've added an official, baked in one since, but, according to my experience, your anti-WoW stance shouldn't cover parsers.
People who don't want to use parsers don't want to progress and better themselves? Good to know.
The workarounds for not having a parser can increase the effort required by an order of magnitude. So if you want to progress and better yourself, why are you against the tool that will best help you?
The middle ground seems like an overall good decision. That way we that want to progress and better ourselves can do so and others that don't want to can choose so.
People who don't want to use parsers don't want to progress and better themselves? Good to know.
Gee I wonder why people so many people are against parsers.
Lol shut up.. We all know parsing isn't to "better yourself". You play how you play. There is no way to "improve yourself" just from seeing how fast or not somebody else is clicking their skills in comparison to yours. Everybody knows parsing is just for arrogant assholes who wish to brag about being "the top DPS'er".
This is Ashes of Creation, not shitty WoW. There aren't going to be "Raids" for you to snear down on others with anyway. It's a PvP game, so what if someone else clicks faster or slower than You? Do you really need to see that to stroke your own ego?
The reason I am against parsers is because I don't want to hear your childish bragging "Look how much dps I did, I am so much better than you" just because I was having a chill out relax day and wanted to play for fun instead of stressing over trying to keep up with everyone.
Comments
It doesn't, however the whole concept of a higher dps means one build is better then another that parsers are apart of/lead to is often to being top notch in games that are built around more then dps and damage adsorption.. games where tactics apply where cc and ec (environment control) have meaning, building for the highest dps can actually cause you more problems. Which kinda brings me to my other point of the use and "need" of parsers sprang from a failure in game design
Don't know if you noticed but mycroft was posting in that thread
Also, I haven't played WoW since vanilla, but nice try.
This is somewhat ironic, considering that my latest MMORPG was Wildstar. Where CCs mattered in a significant number of raid fights, tactics played a big role as only two minibosses could be considered tank and spank, and parsers were an important tool for personal and group improvement. Its almost like players had different builds that they used for different fights, and dps number comparisons were according to each encounter.
However if there will be no parsers to help check who joined the raids to get carried and thus is costing a lots of people their time and resources (equals money), then some other systems will just have to be implemented for raid invites.
I already see "come duel me in arena, and If you beat few of our test warriors you get raid invite", and similar human made performance tests.
But hey, any way it goes down.
I would also love to stress that many players are min maxers, and love to test them selves, push their builds and rotations to get better numbers. These players need a parser to be able to check how much DPS they are pushing out.
Lack of in game parser will just force those players to seek 3rd party tools and extensions. Some of those tools may be legit, many may not.
Not implementing any in game parser, and forcibly blocking some of the legit 3rd party parsers (like ACT), will just push players in reaching for other tools out there, which may compromise the safety of many players. (I know, many here will now say, hey if you care about your safety, don't risk trying out new tools, but the fact of reality is, many players still will...)
I just hope Intrepid will consider this.
Again, the best compromise is to make PARSING private and optional. This way everyone can chose for himself if he wants to use it or no.
And whoever doesn't want to fairly compromise, and wants to push his own philosophy and play style on everyone else.... well he should look hard in the mirror.
It's funny how exactly those people call others elitists, and use other nice adjectives to describe them, while THEY THEMSELVES are the ones wishing to PUSH their own mentality and play style on EVERYONE else. No compromise, no optional and private parsers, nothing. It should be how they wish, and everyone should do it like that.
Yeah, so just keep talking, I think I'm done here.
No PvE servers - made a lot of PvE players mad, they argued for them and Ashes is still saying no.
No fast travel - made a lot of players mad (casuals more than hardcore maybe?), they too argued for them and Ashes is still saying no.
Ashes will, in the end, do what they wish. @Gothix brings up a good point "Again, the best compromise is to make PARSING private and optional. This way everyone can chose for himself if he wants to use it or no." But to me private means others can not see, and I believe by optional Gothix is suggesting we can share with others.
I don't see that as a necessity, but @mycroft brings up another good point, it's because that's not my play style.
@ "ninja shadow" it's kinda a pain I know, wonder if I can change it to drop the space @Isende
@mycroft I get the feeling neither one of us is really going to change the others opinions on this, and in the end I don't believe that any amount of argument from us is bing to change the minds of the devs
I don't know what no parsers is important for, except furthering a misconception about human nature. Elitist jerks will still find a way to be elitist jerks, not including a parser so they can't use it to discriminate is cutting off the nose to spite the face.
This game will be successful because it knows what it wants to be, not because it got turned into a WoW ripoff by Ex-WoW players shovelling WoW features down it's throat.
No modding.
No parsing.
No "Raid" lingo.
What at are the downsides for you if other people use parsers? How will that impact your gameplay.
For me it would be a lot more difficult to raid because there's gonna be this one guy who just doesn't give a damn about his effectiveness and fails the raid for the rest of the group. Honestly, it is why I stopped playing dungeons and raids all together in gw2. I got sick of doing my best and then fail because someone else doesn't want to.
with the parsers I'll be able to join a likeminded group and do content with them.
If you don't want to min max I'm not blaming you or hating you. It's just not your play style. However, don't ruin it for those that actually do want to progress and join a likeminded group yourself. That way parsers won't have an impact on you.
DPS parsers are not required to hunt around for a guild that says hardcore and join.
These metrics are there to isolate the best and discard all else. Their use necessitates killing off any kind of variety because anything but the best is redundant. All you end up with is FoTM builds, gear and playstyles and a game full of min maxers will use nothing else.
This mentality is not only applied to gear...but then carried over to other players. The players are not here for you to cherry pick and discard like every other possession in your life.
Like guns, DPS meters are not the problem. Its the people that use them to discard players and encouraging that mentality. Its an exclusion device and MMOs are not about exclusion. Plenty of multiplayer games for that.
By not allowing parsers you will just shoot yourself in the foot, because what are you trying to accomplish: trying to join a group of people you dont mesh with, who would look down on you if they knew your gear is worse and consider you a leech? Your selfrespect shouldn't allow that and if you aren't an elitist why bother what other people do?
This is more than obvious for anyone with half the brain.
Otherwise, if they really wished join raids with likeminded people that do not care about parsers at all, then the existance of parsers wouldn't bother them at all, since their raids would opt to not use them.
This is very much clear, but those people are just like that, and they will keep posting here and complaining, and will ofc say lies about their reasons, as expected.
The only fair compromise, and the MIDDLE GROUND is to include parsers as OPTIONAL.
The side extremes, are (A) not to include them at all, or (B) to set them as mandatory, and not able to be toggled off.
(A) Mandatory parsers - everyone sees everyones performance - can't be toggled off!
(B) OPTIONAL parsing - toggle that you can set to allow (or not) your own visibility in parser
(C) No parsers at all, for anyone
It's obvious what is middle ground. People that push for (C) are just an obvious carry wannabes / leecher wannabes.
I vote for middle ground (B) which is optional parsing for those that want.
You are however voting for (C) no parsing for anyone, not even optional, so please. I know who you are. We all know.
I did not say "WE will use TOS breaking tools", I just pointed out that part of players might reach out for 3rd party tools that may compromise their security, as concern.
Also my "blowups" and "incessant shouting"... lol, yeah I'm pulling my hear out here... just because of you lol.
Please stop posting, because if you only know how to post lies, and exaggerated things completely modified away from truth and taken out of perspective, then noone wants to hear you.
(A) mandatory parsers - can't be toggled OFF by anyone
(B) OPTIONAL parsers - who wants them can use them (or not)
(C) no parsers at all for anyone
Middle ground is obvious, but you are a guy that doesn't want middle ground, you just want what fits to you, and you want to push it on everyone.
I never liked people like you, noone likes people like you. Think about it.
I on the other hand could easily vote for (A), but I don't because I'm better person than you, and I vote for middle ground, a fair compromise.
When you realize that, you might become a better man. Maybe.
Or posts memes as arguments.
Gee I wonder why people so many people are against parsers.
Or we can stop being ridiculous and violently against anything WoW, and take things on their own merits. "WoW did it" is a terrible reason to not include something, especially something like parsers that were around before WoW.
By the way, when I was playing WoW, the only parsers were from third party addons. I don't know if they've added an official, baked in one since, but, according to my experience, your anti-WoW stance shouldn't cover parsers.
I don't know why its chuckle-inducing. Historically, this is what happens. See FF14.
The workarounds for not having a parser can increase the effort required by an order of magnitude. So if you want to progress and better yourself, why are you against the tool that will best help you?
This is Ashes of Creation, not shitty WoW. There aren't going to be "Raids" for you to snear down on others with anyway. It's a PvP game, so what if someone else clicks faster or slower than You? Do you really need to see that to stroke your own ego?
The reason I am against parsers is because I don't want to hear your childish bragging "Look how much dps I did, I am so much better than you" just because I was having a chill out relax day and wanted to play for fun instead of stressing over trying to keep up with everyone.