I feel like a pirate is more a rogue / bard combo. Also, I really like the name Highsword, or even Arcsword.
Anyway, for Tank/Mage, I think something like "Envoy" sounds better. I don't really think "Harbinger" fits. I think even "Spellguard" is better than "Spellsheild", especially since they don't have to use shields. In fact, this might actually be a good class combo to name "Templar". Some other suggestions (May also work for the Mage/Warrior combos): Arcane Guardian/Warden, Weaveknight, Bladeweaver, Spellshaper, Blademancer, Helix Knight.
Also, as long as we're fine with stealing names from WoW: "Dreadlord" and "Stormlord" both sound badass.
It's hard to make mage names without knowing a bit about how magic works in this world.
@Ventis I have to disagree with you in regards to Pirate. There is nothing stealthy about pirates. They are aggressive and in your face, which is more suited to a fighter.
In regards to the other Mage names you suggested. The point of this class list I created was to get away from the overused words such as Spell, Shadow, Shield Night etc. The less we use these words the better.
Templars have a Holy aspect, hence why it was used in Fighter/Cleric.
Dreadlord and Stormlord are good names I agree, but what would you replace them for?
Does not make sense. If you combine two clerics you should get something like high priest, something pure and holy. Inquisition was about torture and murdering heretics and that way Cleric + Rogue would make about x100 more sense.
Does not make sense. If you combine two clerics you should get something like high priest, something pure and holy. Inquisition was about torture and murdering heretics and that way Cleric + Rogue would make about x100 more sense.
@f@Ferryman Yeah I can see your point. I just think High Priest is too bland. How about then Seraph.
SERAPH (Google Definition) an angelic being, regarded in traditional Christian angelology as belonging to the highest order of the ninefold celestial hierarchy, associated with light, ardour, and purity.
In regards to Cleric/Rogue, Betrayer is better than Inquisitor imo.
IMO seraph follows to close into Christian mythos . . . "high priest" gives a more neutral tone / somewhat a judiciary feel while still being non-denominational.
IMO seraph follows to close into Christian mythos . . . "high priest" gives a more neutral tone / somewhat a judiciary feel while still being non-denominational.
@Telonius This is not about a specific religion. This is just a Holy type name to replace the boring High Priest. Saying we shouldn't use it cause its too close to Christianity is like saying we shouldn't use Druids cause its too close to Paganism. Also using that logic then we would have to get rid of Templar, Crusader etc. This is not about a specific religion.
. . . but druids weren't used. templars and crusaders and even high priests are part of human history (although predominantly through the catholic vs. protestant issues) a seraph is a high ranking Christian angel. . . i'm not saying high priest is the best possibility i'm just saying there shouldn't be classes (archetypes whatever) with direct or blatant references to mythological creatures; and before it's brought up yes i also hate that they went with sirens for the same exact reasons.
. . . but druids weren't used. templars and crusaders and even high priests are part of human history (although predominantly through the catholic vs. protestant issues) a seraph is a high ranking Christian angel. . . i'm not saying high priest is the best possibility i'm just saying there shouldn't be classes (archetypes whatever) with direct or blatant references to mythological creatures; and before it's brought up yes i also hate that they went with sirens for the same exact reasons.
Its a fantasy game. Everything is inspired from Mythological times.
And Druids were used in the list I created, hence why I referenced it. I think you're being pedantic and Im not saying that in a derogatory way.
I dont care where the word comes from, all I care about is its definition and how it fits with how that Primary/Secondary class combo might play out in game.
fantasy games are supposed to create their own mythos; using others kinda breaks immersion for me i'm just trying to say making something relatively unique and slapping on a title that has just another fantasy mythos' name kinda pulls away from the immersion. . . i apologize for whatever i said that seemed childish but i feel historical reference is a better place to pull names than just plastering definitions or pulling from preexisting material.
High priest was not a real suggestion and not my point either.
Just that cleric + cleric cant be inquisitor, because it does not make any sense. It sounds like devs wanted to use inquisitor, but fighter already went to crusader and after that someone brainfarted to suggest betrayer to rogue. So there was no room for inquisitor anymore in places where it belongs.
Btw, Betrayer goes same category with killer. Blah..
Even some less used names are welcome change, there are some really weird and forced ones. Also some names are at wrong place. I hope the list will be checked before release.
Weird ones:
Dreadnought
Juggernaught
Strider
Deadeye
Vindicator
Phantom
Naturalist
Arbiter
Betrayer
Protector
I really like these rare ones:
Executioner
Pirate
Illusionist
Elementalist
Reaper
Aegis
Inquisitor
Trickster
Seer
I would also change Death Knight to Dark or shadow so it would not be linked so easily to WoW.
High priest was not a real suggestion and not my point either.
Just that cleric + cleric cant be inquisitor, because it does not make any sense. It sounds like devs wanted to use inquisitor, but fighter already went to crusader and after that someone brainfarted to suggest betrayer to rogue. So there was no room for inquisitor anymore in places where it belongs.
Btw, Betrayer goes same category with killer. Blah..
@fer@Ferryman Just to make sure this is 100% clear. These names on the class list spreadsheet are NOT made by the developers. Most, not all, but most of the names on the spreadsheet are new suggestions for the current boring names the Devs made up. The names were created by me, and some were suggested by other YouTubers such as Aggelos, KryptonianJedi etc.
Honestly the current Archetype names sounds bland - doesn't have that " magical-feel " to it tbh. Hoping the action-combat hybrid tab-target would help convey that magical-feel though - so far, its looking pretty neat
if you dont have a "Pathfinder" in the Ranger class then you dont have a ranger class. instead of halkeye it should be considered pathfinder, just my two cents
-Executioner(Fighter/Rogue)
– Shadowblade is one I
thought was more suited to Rogue/Fighter. Rogue being the shadow
archetype. Duelist is just as underwhelming as Weaponmaster and scout
imho. TBH, I really couldnt think of another class name and so came
up with Executioner. Thought that suited this combo better
I personally feel as though " Mangler " is the better choice.
Executioner just doesn't feel threatening enough - almost too formal
When i think of FIghter/ Rogue i think of the most Multiple Cuts in the most vile, ruthless, sadistic, nasty cuts that can be conceived
I think another thing is that first initial thoughts when you hear Executioner is a big deathly looking character that has seen death but isn't always combat ready or experienced. Sometimes in history their job was to simply kick/hit out the bench/stool at the gallows or pull the guillotine lever. I think Mangler is close but doesn't quite hit the mark. Maybe something along the lines of "Hitman" might be more suitable.
Sorry man i thought it was, because of those frames and all. Oh well lets consider that as personal feedback then and i need next to find that official one.
Sorry man i thought it was, because of those frames and all. Oh well lets consider that as personal feedback then and i need next to find that official one.
@f@Ferryman All good mate. Here is the link to the official class list.
Yeah i found that one already, but thanks anyway. ;-) Half of those official ones are bad, odd, at wrong place or looks like named by 5 years old kid. Some choises are not even classes and are more like items or skills. Here are listed imo the worst ones. These names gives me feel that those are more like taken randomly out from a hat and not thought at all.
Highsword
Spellshield
Argent
Shadow Guardian
Nighspell
Shadow Lord
Strider
Scion
Falconer
Soulbow
Bowsinger
Spellstone
Spellhunter
Wild Blade
Brood Warden
Shadowmancer
Spellmancer
Apostle
Shadow Diciple
Protector
Tellsword
Siren
Song Warden
Songcaller
Soul Weaver
I would like to say to devs.. I understand it can be hard to find a good words to describe the mix of two classes and still make it sound interesting and cool. Even so, you must have better options than these. I love your game but please dont make your class options unwanted.
@Ferryman I'd always figured it was a placement-holder. Until after they take care of the MMO itself ... really hoping i'm right >.< But so as long as it not P2W its fine
Since all of us don't know a majority of the lore behind the world, magic, culture, etc., I find it very difficult to dispute any of the names.
Especially since I'm a huge D&D 3.5 fan, the prestige classes line up perfectly with the chosen names as-is.
That being said, I 'do' like the idea or possibility of a Rogue/Fighter being "Shadow Blade" instead of a Fighter/Rogue - but it depends on the reasons.
The Pirate (Fighter/Bard, or even Bard/Fighter) I approve of wholeheartedly... though, I could also argue that any/all classes and class combinations can be a pirate, too. If there were alternate "prestige" things attainable in other ways - like a "Dread Pirate" title (regardless of class combos) or special skills after owning a ship and reaching a certain level of notoriety in a region.
Since all of us don't know a majority of the lore behind the world, magic, culture, etc., I find it very difficult to dispute any of the names.
Especially since I'm a huge D&D 3.5 fan, the prestige classes line up perfectly with the chosen names as-is.
That being said, I 'do' like the idea or possibility of a Rogue/Fighter being "Shadow Blade" instead of a Fighter/Rogue - but it depends on the reasons.
The Pirate (Fighter/Bard, or even Bard/Fighter) I approve of wholeheartedly... though, I could also argue that any/all classes and class combinations can be a pirate, too. If there were alternate "prestige" things attainable in other ways - like a "Dread Pirate" title (regardless of class combos) or special skills after owning a ship and reaching a certain level of notoriety in a region.
@Caelron I agree with you in regards to Rogue/Fighter, Shadowblade fits but as you said we dont have enough information yet so we are basing the names on our own assumptions of how that role will play out.
In regards to Pirate, I cant really see how a Summoner/Mage would fit in as a Pirate. Fighter/Bard yes, and I gave my reasons for that, Bard/Fighter maybe. He might be a Jack Sparrow kinda pirate. But any other combination im kinda struggling to see how a Pirate would fit.
Strykerz said: ... In regards to Pirate, I cant really see how a Summoner/Mage would fit in as a Pirate. Fighter/Bard yes, and I gave my reasons for that, Bard/Fighter maybe. He might be a Jack Sparrow kinda pirate. But any other combination im kinda struggling to see how a Pirate would fit.
@Strykerz It depends on a few things, but if you think from a practical and role-playing perspective in a fantasy environment, many roles are required to operate a successful pirate ship and/or pirate-style campaign.
Taking from my personal D&D experience, my "Dread Pirate" was a 10 Fighter / 1 Dread Pirate (Typically they're mostly a Rogue for skills with Bard or other classes for 'inspiring' skills/abilities to be a better leader). As the Captain, he was in charge of the ship and its handling of course, but also needed to be seen as the most powerful fighter if boarding/boarded by another boat. We also needed a Ship's Mage (Wizard in our case, but can be any arcane casting class with the right spell list). First and foremost, we needed somebody who could magically repair the boat really fast to prevent us from sinking or to put out fires if another Wizard hit our wooden ship (as most ships are wooden) with a fireball. Setting a ship on fire is a good way to clean house without much fighting, and a wizard could do it from a distance. You also would need a wizard to try and counterspell any other wizards trying to sink or disrupt your ship. Imagine a summoner class (like summoner/mage you mentioned) trying to summon different things on or around your boat? Very hard to deal with without your own caster. Or maybe you just needed somebody to generate wind to sail to places faster?
Rogues were really nice for climbing, balancing, and other skill-heavy abilities needed on a ship - as well as climbing and sneaking on to another ship at night. We also had a were-shark Druid who was more of an Ocean Protector who would pick off people that fell overboard. We even had a campaign where we needed to recover sunken treasure and deal with creatures who would swim to the surface during the day and sink any passing ships. To prepare, you need a caster (or scrolls, I suppose) with certain spells to travel to the depths of the ocean. It's not enough just to find ways to breathe underwater - you need ways to combat the freezing cold underwater as well as the crushing pressure of the deep. If only a couple hundred meters can crush a giant submarine, imagine what it'll do you you - especially if you're wearing armor. You also need different crafters and enchanters to make sure your armor and weapons work in the water (totally different combat mechanics, even with lots of magic).
On the surface you'd also need different specialized engineers to operate the siege weapons (Catapults, ballista, etc.) since there was no gunpowder. Besides - who needs a canon when you have a wizard? You would also need various archers to pick off people before you could get close enough to board. Imagine having a healing class on board to heal everybody up after a battle? Or during, even? Crazy useful. And very expensive from a role-playing perspective, especially if you were doing things illegal.
If you think about skills alone, almost every skill is needed in some form or another, such as: Decipher Script and Forgery - If you steal a ship, you'll need many different papers to prove that the ship's yours, the contents are yours and accounted for, and many other things. If you're caught trying to sell goods from a stolen ship, you'll have the whole navy on top of you trying to hang you.
The list is endless, but almost any/every class can have its usefulness as a "pirate", which is why I would consider it more of a profession than a specific class.
I like Archon, but I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with Archwizard, it's a great fit either way for the "mage to the maximum" class. However, Elementalist is one I don't like too much. All mages tend to use elemental spells, there is nothing particularly special about that. It doesn't make me think of anything that would connect mage and ranger. I have the exact same problem with Sorcerer. How about Diviner or Clairvoyant for that combination? I guess Fortune Teller would fit well too.
Archon is good, but I don't think there was anything particularly wrong with Archwizard, they're both a great fit for the "mage to the maximum" class. Not a big fan of Elementalist though. Mages use elemental spells, we know that, there is nothing special about it in the class, no differentiating factor, nothing that would make me think:"Oh, a Mage and a Ranger.", if you know what I mean. I've got the same problem with Sorcerer. I'd say that something like Diviner, Clairvoyant or even Fortune Teller would fit that class combination a lot better than yet another "generic mage class name" that Sorcerer is.
Yeah I posted this on a different thread on the same topic.. but I think they should have held back the name of the combo classes until they had them fleshed out. Now after looking at them again I think they stuck with really generic names so they had some wiggle room in class design.
Just look at Mage-ranger... the Spellhunter. This is so vague that you could design anything using mage and ranger and it'd still feel right. A mage that shoots magical bolts at increased distance and speed, yeah spellhunter. A mage that leaves magical traps .. yeah spellhunter. A mage that can track enemies and move quickly and quietly through the terrain.. yeah spellhunter.
I really think that they kept them vague so they can make them however they wanted. Alternatively they could have come up with interesting and specific names that would heavily suggest a single playstyle.
So after thinking about it a bit more.. as long as the combo classes are interesting and unique I can get behind the generic names.
Comments
I have to disagree with you in regards to Pirate. There is nothing stealthy about pirates. They are aggressive and in your face, which is more suited to a fighter.
In regards to the other Mage names you suggested. The point of this class list I created was to get away from the overused words such as Spell, Shadow, Shield Night etc. The less we use these words the better.
Templars have a Holy aspect, hence why it was used in Fighter/Cleric.
Dreadlord and Stormlord are good names I agree, but what would you replace them for?
Does not make sense. If you combine two clerics you should get something like high priest, something pure and holy. Inquisition was about torture and murdering heretics and that way Cleric + Rogue would make about x100 more sense.
SERAPH
(Google Definition)
an angelic being, regarded in traditional Christian angelology as belonging to the highest order of the ninefold celestial hierarchy, associated with light, ardour, and purity.
In regards to Cleric/Rogue, Betrayer is better than Inquisitor imo.
And Druids were used in the list I created, hence why I referenced it. I think you're being pedantic and Im not saying that in a derogatory way.
I dont care where the word comes from, all I care about is its definition and how it fits with how that Primary/Secondary class combo might play out in game.
Just that cleric + cleric cant be inquisitor, because it does not make any sense. It sounds like devs wanted to use inquisitor, but fighter already went to crusader and after that someone brainfarted to suggest betrayer to rogue. So there was no room for inquisitor anymore in places where it belongs.
Btw, Betrayer goes same category with killer. Blah..
Weird ones:
- Dreadnought
- Juggernaught
- Strider
- Deadeye
- Vindicator
- Phantom
- Naturalist
- Arbiter
- Betrayer
- Protector
I really like these rare ones:- Executioner
- Pirate
- Illusionist
- Elementalist
- Reaper
- Aegis
- Inquisitor
- Trickster
- Seer
I would also change Death Knight to Dark or shadow so it would not be linked so easily to WoW.Sorry man i thought it was, because of those frames and all. Oh well lets consider that as personal feedback then and i need next to find that official one.
https://www.ashesofcreation.com/class-list/
- Highsword
- Spellshield
- Argent
- Shadow Guardian
- Nighspell
- Shadow Lord
- Strider
- Scion
- Falconer
- Soulbow
- Bowsinger
- Spellstone
- Spellhunter
- Wild Blade
- Brood Warden
- Shadowmancer
- Spellmancer
- Apostle
- Shadow Diciple
- Protector
- Tellsword
- Siren
- Song Warden
- Songcaller
- Soul Weaver
I would like to say to devs.. I understand it can be hard to find a good words to describe the mix of two classes and still make it sound interesting and cool. Even so, you must have better options than these. I love your game but please dont make your class options unwanted.I'd always figured it was a placement-holder. Until after they take care of the MMO itself ... really hoping i'm right >.<
But so as long as it not P2W its fine
Spellshield → Aegis
Nightspell → Illusionist
Spellmancer → Elementalist
Those are 4 I would definitely like to see.
Especially since I'm a huge D&D 3.5 fan, the prestige classes line up perfectly with the chosen names as-is.
That being said, I 'do' like the idea or possibility of a Rogue/Fighter being "Shadow Blade" instead of a Fighter/Rogue - but it depends on the reasons.
The Pirate (Fighter/Bard, or even Bard/Fighter) I approve of wholeheartedly... though, I could also argue that any/all classes and class combinations can be a pirate, too.
If there were alternate "prestige" things attainable in other ways - like a "Dread Pirate" title (regardless of class combos) or special skills after owning a ship and reaching a certain level of notoriety in a region.
In regards to Pirate, I cant really see how a Summoner/Mage would fit in as a Pirate. Fighter/Bard yes, and I gave my reasons for that, Bard/Fighter maybe. He might be a Jack Sparrow kinda pirate. But any other combination im kinda struggling to see how a Pirate would fit.
Taking from my personal D&D experience, my "Dread Pirate" was a 10 Fighter / 1 Dread Pirate (Typically they're mostly a Rogue for skills with Bard or other classes for 'inspiring' skills/abilities to be a better leader). As the Captain, he was in charge of the ship and its handling of course, but also needed to be seen as the most powerful fighter if boarding/boarded by another boat. We also needed a Ship's Mage (Wizard in our case, but can be any arcane casting class with the right spell list). First and foremost, we needed somebody who could magically repair the boat really fast to prevent us from sinking or to put out fires if another Wizard hit our wooden ship (as most ships are wooden) with a fireball. Setting a ship on fire is a good way to clean house without much fighting, and a wizard could do it from a distance. You also would need a wizard to try and counterspell any other wizards trying to sink or disrupt your ship. Imagine a summoner class (like summoner/mage you mentioned) trying to summon different things on or around your boat? Very hard to deal with without your own caster. Or maybe you just needed somebody to generate wind to sail to places faster?
Rogues were really nice for climbing, balancing, and other skill-heavy abilities needed on a ship - as well as climbing and sneaking on to another ship at night. We also had a were-shark Druid who was more of an Ocean Protector who would pick off people that fell overboard. We even had a campaign where we needed to recover sunken treasure and deal with creatures who would swim to the surface during the day and sink any passing ships. To prepare, you need a caster (or scrolls, I suppose) with certain spells to travel to the depths of the ocean. It's not enough just to find ways to breathe underwater - you need ways to combat the freezing cold underwater as well as the crushing pressure of the deep. If only a couple hundred meters can crush a giant submarine, imagine what it'll do you you - especially if you're wearing armor. You also need different crafters and enchanters to make sure your armor and weapons work in the water (totally different combat mechanics, even with lots of magic).
On the surface you'd also need different specialized engineers to operate the siege weapons (Catapults, ballista, etc.) since there was no gunpowder. Besides - who needs a canon when you have a wizard? You would also need various archers to pick off people before you could get close enough to board. Imagine having a healing class on board to heal everybody up after a battle? Or during, even? Crazy useful. And very expensive from a role-playing perspective, especially if you were doing things illegal.
If you think about skills alone, almost every skill is needed in some form or another, such as:
Decipher Script and Forgery - If you steal a ship, you'll need many different papers to prove that the ship's yours, the contents are yours and accounted for, and many other things. If you're caught trying to sell goods from a stolen ship, you'll have the whole navy on top of you trying to hang you.
The list is endless, but almost any/every class can have its usefulness as a "pirate", which is why I would consider it more of a profession than a specific class.
Just look at Mage-ranger... the Spellhunter. This is so vague that you could design anything using mage and ranger and it'd still feel right. A mage that shoots magical bolts at increased distance and speed, yeah spellhunter. A mage that leaves magical traps .. yeah spellhunter. A mage that can track enemies and move quickly and quietly through the terrain.. yeah spellhunter.
I really think that they kept them vague so they can make them however they wanted. Alternatively they could have come up with interesting and specific names that would heavily suggest a single playstyle.
So after thinking about it a bit more.. as long as the combo classes are interesting and unique I can get behind the generic names.