Female Representation Pitfalls (AKA "The Chainmail Bikini")

HK83HK83 Member
edited March 15 in Ashes of Creation Design
Looking at the development staff, I noticed there aren't any females present.  This leads me to wonder if the in-game female models are going to be a rehash of games past, specifically in the department of clothing.

You know what I'm talking about:  A female fighter with an armor class to take on the world who visually looks like she's wearing a mid-drift top and hot-pants.  It's kind of contrived and I don't always want my females 'pretty' from a roleplaying perspective.  Sometimes you don't want to play Xena as much as you want Brienne of Tarth.

I guess this all leads to the question:  What ARE your thoughts or plans on the topic of 'realistic' armor options?
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Comments

  • MobrechaelMobrechael Member ✭✭
    edited March 15
    It would be a rough bit of programming to add into the game but optimization of gear would be cool. Example, gear can be taken to an npc and when you click on your gear it gives you options such as less or more. The problem would be all gear morphs would have to have several vertex groups assigned to them that could be added or subtracted. The other idea is all armor morphs have a few versions of them created so you could pick the level of nakiness desired. All in all though I haven't seen any pictures of characters that screamed "my god someone buy that gal a shirt" so I think  over exploitation won't  be an issue....Bless will have that covered or...er...uncovered.
  • HK83HK83 Member
    Lexmax with the timestamped quote!  Awesome.  Thanks!
  • GrisuGrisu Member alpha-0-rank
    Mr.Bacon will surely find a way to make a Bacon Bikini for us all to enjoy. I fail to see what it has to do with the staff tho.
    "I can be your strangest life fulfilling wish." - Grisu
    'I can be your darkest life devouring nightmare.' - aka. Zekece#1819
    Let's build a Nation together.
  • HK83HK83 Member
    Grisu said:
    Mr.Bacon will surely find a way to make a Bacon Bikini for us all to enjoy. I fail to see what it has to do with the staff tho.
    It's been my experience that an all-male staff may lack the point of view of a female developer/player.  The art, then, becomes what they envision, which can differ wildly from what a female would envision her character to be.  

    Again, I'm not saying they would do this (and Lexmax was awesome enough to find a quote where they said they'd work toward realism), but it's a worry of mine having lived through brow-furrowing moments of World of Warcraft and Guild Wars where a chain mail shirt on a male character looks protective but on a female character is suddenly just a bra.  
  • ArgentdawnArgentdawn Member alpha-stress-tester
    As a male gamer I prefer the male character model.. until they look like crap. If I can get my character to look like he's built with muscle tone/scars/age I stick with the male model. If I can't get that out of the male character I switch to the softer appearance of the female characters and tend to go for a more stylist approach instead of sexy. 

    The simple answer is I stare at my character for several hours a day... I want them to look good

  • NightshadeRavenNightshadeRaven Member ✭✭✭
    The simple answer is I stare at my character for several hours a day... I want them to look good
    Would you stare at this character.

    https://image.eveonline.com/Character/91072482_512.jpg



  • OllinwenOllinwen Member
    nope, I would not want to see him before going to bed.. nightmare materiel :-)
    I used to play eve online too couple years ago
  • GrisuGrisu Member alpha-0-rank
    ^
    After all they are catering to us, the player base and put in "what sells". Just because you don't like it doesn't mean that there isn't a big enough audience that would like it. Making this about the gender of the staff is like saying every male artist draws the same sexualised stuff. Have you never seen female artist whose sole focus is female act portrays, sculpture a female body and so on?

    I do hope they stay true to the "we want it to be more on the realistic side of how armor provides protection" and not have every 2nd piece be an under boob, huge  cleavage, or simply skimpy looking. It just has nothing to do with gender.
    "I can be your strangest life fulfilling wish." - Grisu
    'I can be your darkest life devouring nightmare.' - aka. Zekece#1819
    Let's build a Nation together.
  • SkyerunnerSkyerunner Member
    I think in this day and age and with all that's going on in the world we can do without female characters wearing "pin-up" armour.  I'm a female sick of the sexist crap.
    Skyerunner, Uru Survivor
  • NightshadeRavenNightshadeRaven Member ✭✭✭
    I think in this day and age and with all that's going on in the world we can do without female characters wearing "pin-up" armour.  I'm a female sick of the sexist crap.
    Yes the times are a changing.


  • NamaiNamai Member
    I'm curious as to where peoples mind is on this topic in relation to non-armor clothing.

    I mean, it isn't as if a mage is wearing cloth as a form of protection, so the argument about practicality (that I completely agree with) doesn't hold any weight there.
  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    I'm fairly certain the devs have already stated that such armor doesn't serve much purpose in terms of fighting. I honestly (even as a female) wouldn't mind seeing both styles of armor within the game. Even females like walking around in their bikini armor from time to time, it can be fun, but imo it shouldn't be compareable to high tier gear which is used for fighting, more of a costume.

    BDO had a pretty interesting take on this imo, where your character would have underwear which could look sexy, both for males and females. This could easily be implemented without it having the biggest impact to anyone but those who like to dress and rp that way.
    In Stuffertons we trust
  • XombieXombie Member alpha-0-rank


    Come at me sis!

  • ArgentdawnArgentdawn Member alpha-stress-tester
    I think in this day and age and with all that's going on in the world we can do without female characters wearing "pin-up" armour.  I'm a female sick of the sexist crap.
    its not an attack on women.. the male characters have chainmail banana hammocks. Its a body... an animated body..  its not about men or women. Dont try spouting sexist crap to make people feel bad for you or guilt trip men.

    And unless the game caries an E rating there will most likely be some sexualized content in it.

  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    I think in this day and age and with all that's going on in the world we can do without female characters wearing "pin-up" armour.  I'm a female sick of the sexist crap.
    its not an attack on women.. the male characters have chainmail banana hammocks. Its a body... an animated body..  its not about men or women. Dont try spouting sexist crap to make people feel bad for you or guilt trip men.

    And unless the game caries an E rating there will most likely be some sexualized content in it.
    Frankly there always is, but that's just like the real world. Creators like to put in some of that stuff for example rp'ers that like to have it around, and people who enjoy having "sexy characters". My main concern is how realistic it is. I don't mind having sexy outfits in the game, but it shouldn't be used for fighting
    In Stuffertons we trust
  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    Gothix said:
    Any female that doesn't enjoy wearing chain mail bikinis needs not to wear one, you can get yourself normal armor and wear it, no problem.

    Any crazy feminist that's disturbed by others around her wearing what they enjoy can gtfo and go knit or cook and not look at what others are wearing.


    ** I am pro for gender equality, and I respect women. I do not respect crazy feminists, they can gtfo. **


    Btw. gender equality means that while players can chose chain mail bikinis for female chars, they can also chose chain mail shorts for male chars. That i support. I do not support crazy feminists dictate how many layers of armor others have to wear.
    Preach
    In Stuffertons we trust
  • Rune_RelicRune_Relic Member ✭✭✭✭
    I couldnt find a teddy in bikini armour so....

    ...Practical. Comes with bullet belt too.
    :thumbsup:
  • lexmaxlexmax Moderator mod
    I couldnt find a teddy in bikini armour so....

    ...Practical. Comes with bullet belt too.
    :thumbsup:
    What have you done!?! That can not be unseen! My last childhood idol ruined!!

  • Rune_RelicRune_Relic Member ✭✭✭✭
    @lexmax

    I know ...jarring right ? Sorry mate ;)
    Role model just doesnt quite have the same ring to it now.
    lol.
  • MADEMADE Member ✭✭
    Yeah, a bikini chain mail is not good cause it's not realistic for armor, but:
    -conjuring fire/ice/etc from nothing and shoting with it is fine
    -teleporting is fine too (fuck physic, it's realistic!!!!)
    -resurecting dead and sumoning random beings are 100% fine and realistic too
    -geting hit by a twohanded weapon while wearing nothing but cloth and not dying instantly is fine
    -carrying tons of stuff in a basically invicible bag is realistic to, isn't it?
    -geting a spear out from nowere, piercing someone from tens of meters with it, and then pulling it to you, while the victim survives it is 100% realistic, didn't you know that in the ancient times people fighted like that?
    -magically becoming weaker from nothing if you kill someone is realistic too (corruption)
    -etc...

    Such hypocrat. This game is already very far from realistic, but it's not problem in every other aspect, but only when it comes to something that you don't like....

    As long as there are magic in the game, you can at any point say that this armor is magic too, so it gives you protection.

    Also for the immersion, yep, very immersive...https://imgur.com/a/qArdW



  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    MADE said:
    Yeah, a bikini chain mail is not good cause it's not realistic for armor, but:
    -conjuring fire/ice/etc from nothing and shoting with it is fine
    -teleporting is fine too (fuck physic, it's realistic!!!!)
    -resurecting dead and sumoning random beings are 100% fine and realistic too
    -geting hit by a twohanded weapon while wearing nothing but cloth and not dying instantly is fine
    -carrying tons of stuff in a basically invicible bag is realistic to, isn't it?
    -geting a spear out from nowere, piercing someone from tens of meters with it, and then pulling it to you, while the victim survives it is 100% realistic, didn't you know that in the ancient times people fighted like that?
    -magically becoming weaker from nothing if you kill someone is realistic too (corruption)
    -etc...

    Such hypocrat. This game is already very far from realistic, but it's not problem in every other aspect, but only when it comes to something that you don't like....

    As long as there are magic in the game, you can at any point say that this armor is magic too, so it gives you protection.

    Also for the immersion, yep, very immersive...https://imgur.com/a/qArdW



    A sense of realism in games is often quite important in order for people to immerse themselves. A lot of people (myself included) at least needs some reasoning behind things such as bikini armor ingame for it to make sense, and I personally like bulkier, more protective armor on my character
    In Stuffertons we trust
  • ArgentdawnArgentdawn Member alpha-stress-tester
    MADE said:
    Yeah, a bikini chain mail is not good cause it's not realistic for armor, but:
    -conjuring fire/ice/etc from nothing and shoting with it is fine
    -teleporting is fine too (fuck physic, it's realistic!!!!)
    -resurecting dead and sumoning random beings are 100% fine and realistic too
    -geting hit by a twohanded weapon while wearing nothing but cloth and not dying instantly is fine
    -carrying tons of stuff in a basically invicible bag is realistic to, isn't it?
    -geting a spear out from nowere, piercing someone from tens of meters with it, and then pulling it to you, while the victim survives it is 100% realistic, didn't you know that in the ancient times people fighted like that?
    -magically becoming weaker from nothing if you kill someone is realistic too (corruption)
    -etc...

    Such hypocrat. This game is already very far from realistic, but it's not problem in every other aspect, but only when it comes to something that you don't like....

    As long as there are magic in the game, you can at any point say that this armor is magic too, so it gives you protection.

    Also for the immersion, yep, very immersive...https://imgur.com/a/qArdW



    A sense of realism in games is often quite important in order for people to immerse themselves. A lot of people (myself included) at least needs some reasoning behind things such as bikini armor ingame for it to make sense, and I personally like bulkier, more protective armor on my character
    I tend to stick to heavier armor as well I like to bulky/heavy look. But theres times I wanna throw on some trunks and /waterfloat and other times I'll throw on a poncho and afk near a fire. 

  • BraneGamesBraneGames Member, Alpha 1 Stress Test alpha-stress-tester
    MADE said:
    Yeah, a bikini chain mail is not good cause it's not realistic for armor, but:
    -conjuring fire/ice/etc from nothing and shoting with it is fine
    -teleporting is fine too (fuck physic, it's realistic!!!!)
    -resurecting dead and sumoning random beings are 100% fine and realistic too
    -geting hit by a twohanded weapon while wearing nothing but cloth and not dying instantly is fine
    -carrying tons of stuff in a basically invicible bag is realistic to, isn't it?
    -geting a spear out from nowere, piercing someone from tens of meters with it, and then pulling it to you, while the victim survives it is 100% realistic, didn't you know that in the ancient times people fighted like that?
    -magically becoming weaker from nothing if you kill someone is realistic too (corruption)
    -etc...

    Such hypocrat. This game is already very far from realistic, but it's not problem in every other aspect, but only when it comes to something that you don't like....

    As long as there are magic in the game, you can at any point say that this armor is magic too, so it gives you protection.

    Also for the immersion, yep, very immersive...https://imgur.com/a/qArdW



    A sense of realism in games is often quite important in order for people to immerse themselves. A lot of people (myself included) at least needs some reasoning behind things such as bikini armor ingame for it to make sense, and I personally like bulkier, more protective armor on my character
    I tend to stick to heavier armor as well I like to bulky/heavy look. But theres times I wanna throw on some trunks and /waterfloat and other times I'll throw on a poncho and afk near a fire. 
    And I definitely think that there should be room for both
    In Stuffertons we trust
  • NeliryaNelirya Member ✭✭✭
    MADE said:
    Yeah, a bikini chain mail is not good cause it's not realistic for armor, but:
    -conjuring fire/ice/etc from nothing and shoting with it is fine
    -teleporting is fine too (fuck physic, it's realistic!!!!)
    -resurecting dead and sumoning random beings are 100% fine and realistic too
    -geting hit by a twohanded weapon while wearing nothing but cloth and not dying instantly is fine
    -carrying tons of stuff in a basically invicible bag is realistic to, isn't it?
    -geting a spear out from nowere, piercing someone from tens of meters with it, and then pulling it to you, while the victim survives it is 100% realistic, didn't you know that in the ancient times people fighted like that?
    -magically becoming weaker from nothing if you kill someone is realistic too (corruption)
    -etc...

    Such hypocrat. This game is already very far from realistic, but it's not problem in every other aspect, but only when it comes to something that you don't like....

    As long as there are magic in the game, you can at any point say that this armor is magic too, so it gives you protection.

    Also for the immersion, yep, very immersive...https://imgur.com/a/qArdW



    A sense of realism in games is often quite important in order for people to immerse themselves. A lot of people (myself included) at least needs some reasoning behind things such as bikini armor ingame for it to make sense, and I personally like bulkier, more protective armor on my character
    I tend to stick to heavier armor as well I like to bulky/heavy look. But theres times I wanna throw on some trunks and /waterfloat and other times I'll throw on a poncho and afk near a fire. 
    And I definitely think that there should be room for both
    See there's a great point; "room for both".
    I don't understand people who are so set on getting it their way that they can't accept other's opinions. We are supposed to be building a co-operative and inclusive community (or at least we should try). Then surely enough accepting other's opinions should be an obvious thing?

    I love feminine and beautiful armours with high heels for my characters (as long as it is designed to suit the world), because that's my style. Yet I am completely in favour for having a choice of armour with flat shoes and more "bulky/heavy" appearances as well.

    I believe that "choice" is the answer, if you don't like a certain appearance; DON'T wear it, wear something else, but let people choose what they want to wear. I just don't believe it's fair to insist that just because some people don't like a certain appearance, that it should not exist in the world.

    But hey, that's just my opinion :smile:
  • NoaaniNoaani Member alpha-0-rank
    I actually see two issues at play in this one topic.

    The first is objectification. Personally, I'm fine with that as long as all objectification is equal.

    The second is in game representation of function, this is where I personally take issue with actual in game chainmail bikinis.

    In a game that has non-trivial PvP elements, I should be able to look at a group of characters from afar, see how many are wearing plate or cloth and have a fairly good idea of what to expect. If a character in game has the stats of full plate, then that character should appear to be wearing full plate. If a character has half the stats of full plate, then wearing half a full plate suit seems appropriate.

    While I fully understand the importance of players being able to customize how their characters look, I am a firm believer that form should never take priority over function.

    So basically, I'm fine with a bikini, just not a chainmail one.
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