Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
If you are a combatant, your attacks affect player characters.
The state of non-combatant and combatant are specific to your character, not specific to your character in relation to other characters.
If you want to attack many people at once, as soon as you are a combatant (which there will likely also be a hotkey for), you will be able to do so.
"Likely" doesnt satisfy me. And even if there will be hotkey for that it still lack flexibility. E.g.:
I'm conbatant but I don't want my skills to attack people anymore, I just want to run away. I'm a combatany and I want my skills to attack only combatants - not "greens" ect.
My solution give us total 9 options. Current solution even with this hotkey total 5. If u want I can list all of it and compare.
@UnknownSystemError
It's not like I don't like flagging system. Actually I love it. I just know how this system should look like because I experienced it for years. (And I know how it evelved)
And YES it's gonna be a thing whenever we talk about MMO - Massively multiplayer online -game
Being flagged as a combatant is a choice. One that is supposed to carry some weight.
You can't just flag as being a combatant, then see the guy you just beat up coming at you with some friends so decide to run off with your tail between your legs and un-flag.
Nor can you just pick one player in a group (whether actually grouped up or not) to be able to attack, while remaining green to the rest of the players.
If you flag as a combatant, you have to own that shit.
There is plenty of PvP options in Ashes other than open world PvP that uses the flagging system.
The flagging system is supposed to be the last resort, not the first.
2.U still dont understand the system i suggest.
3.As far as i know there will be timer system for that(un-flagging).
4.My sugestion doesnt affect that at all.
5. It just let u chose ur target more accurately.
1.Yep i Agree 100%.
("PvP switch modes" doesn't affect that at all. U are fllaged as u should be, u just can choose who u want to attack - all/combatants/nobody).
2.I suggest something like that but only in one scenario and it's to protect green players - look link:
https://imgur.com/a/BEqDQ93
But we are not even talking about point number 1 right now.
This system just gives u flexibility nothing more nothing less. I can't even see any rational drawbacks. Anything u said against it is based on misinterpretation.
Intrepid have stated numerous times that player decisions should all carry some weight. Everything you are suggesting is in an attempt to remove some of that weight from decisions related to open PvP.
You want to be able to flag, but only have your attacks affect some players and not others - making your decision to flag carry less weight.
You want non-combatants that attack a corrupt player to be flagged as combatant for that player only - making your decision to gain corruption carry less weight.
Your ideas go directly against the grain of what Intrepid want Ashes to be.
The PvP system here is far more complicated than it is in any other MMO, simply because it contains more components than any other MMO (flagging PvP, caravan PvP, castle siege PvP, node siege PvP, arena PvP, guild war PvP, node war PvP and potentially more that we don't know about yet).
The way these individual systems are designed is so that they all function together as one big PvP system. Flagging based PvP is supposed to be the last resort. If it is made easier, it may no longer be the last resort meaning players may prefer flagging based PvP over raiding a caravan - and if the game gets to this point it would have lasting detrimental effects on the wider game - not just the PvP aspects of it.
While a bit extreme, the following is what could happen if Ashes has an ublalanced PvP system (which your ideas would absolutely do).
If it becomes easier to PvP for materials where they are gathered rather that while they are being transported, that is where PvP players would go to get materials. If this happens, non-PvP players will simply stop gathering materials - as the idea of needing protection to perform what is essentially a basic function is ludicrous. This in itself will result in players that are primarily crafters/gatherers and somewhat anti-PvP leaving the game for something else.
Now, with this drop in resource creation, the games economy will start to suffer. As nodes require a constant flow of resources to be maintained at any given level, they will start to decline and delevel. Due to the nature of nodes, and the fact that the surrounding content is tied to them, a decrease in overall node level means a decrease in overall content level. This means that the game would suddenly be heavy on low and mid level PvE content, and light on PvE content for players at the level cap. Naturally, this would result in PvE-centric players leaving the game as you can't be a PvE player in a game without appropriate PvE content.
This essentially leaves PvP players left, and we've all seen how that goes. Someone will set up an alliance between some of the PvP players, they will beat the remaining PvP players in to submission, and so those players will leave. A few weeks later (it takes PvP-centric players that long to figure these things out) the remaining PvP alliance will realize that they have no one left to PvP against, and so will leave the game to find something else.
Now again, that is the extreme version of events - but it *is* actually a possible version of events.
You, @Szejm, don't seem to have a full understanding of the game. You seem to have looked at the PvP aspects and thought to yourself "that isn't quite what I want, so I'll start posting to see if I can get it changed".
Fortunately for the rest of us, Intrepid essentially don't care. They have said before that they have a vision for the game, and players (or potential players) are not going to sway them from that vision.
Based on what you seem to want from PvP in Ashes, I suggest you look at Crowfall - as Ashes is absolutely not the game for you.
It’s not The last resort it’s The ONLY resort while it comes to fighting over best hunting grounds. Devs clearly stated they want their pvp system meaningful that include risks and rewards. And they created special mechanics to make that happen - bounty, bounty hunters ect. They actually encourage to fight by implementing systems like - raw materials drops ect. As they stated:
"For our open world, we have designed a flagging system that severely deters people from griefing other players"
And the KEY word here is GRIEFING. Fighting for something is not griefing. Griefing is body camping, constantly abusing someone without reason ect.
They also stated they want their risk and reward system balanced. Right now, it’s not balanced at all. Risk is great and almost unavoidable and reward is mediocre.
It’s not only me. On this forum there are many posts concerning open world pvp as every experienced pvp player can clearly see current system is lacking.
To make open world pvp balanced some changes need to be made. I don’t say my suggestions are perfect. But the problem exists and it needs to be dealt with.
And I can assure u this game is absolutely not going to be ur pve carebear sandbox paradise so maybe u should look at Farmville, Path of Exile or something like that.
Going back to you not understanding the game in full.
There is no evidence that Ashes will have BDO style "hunting grounds".
The value in Ashes is in resources, not in killing mobs.
Contention for resources happens at the transport stage, not the gathering stage.
In other words, rather than needing to challenge people in a specific location to get the best "spot", you can instead wait for those people to gather those materials, and challenge them for the actual materials. This is done without the flagging system at all.
The situation that provides the reasons you want the changes to the flagging system in Ashes won't actually happen in Ashes. The analogous situation Ashes provides doesn't use the flagging system. This makes all of your reasons for wanting to change the flagging system null and void.
I laughed so hard lol you are so wrong and so right at the same time hahaha.
How BDO was in favor for red?
1.When u kill someone u lose karma
2. Attacked person can fight back without suffering any risks
(edit. ofc only when u are not "red", if u are red u cannot fight back.. x))))
3.Atacked person when killed lose NOTHING- the one attacking if lose(die) loss 1% of exp and precious gems
So now explain me now how is it in favour of reds? lol4.When u go rly low on karma ur items downgrade and u lose more % and gems.
Even if u kill someone u are the one who loses - karma (and u are at risk of losing much more). Killed person lose nothing, just nothing lol.
AND on the other hand i agreee 100% with:
With no punishment killed person just kept coming back and griefing and following u and making ur day a nightmare. Imagine guild that dont like u and has nothing better to do. But in general:
When there is no risk people have the feeling of impunity so they don't respect each other at all.
To sum up it makes whole community a reta*ded bunch of as*oles.
Ps. I hate bdo pvp system form the bottom of my heart and that’s why i stopped playing it and i definitely don't want it here. Ahh and I already admitted in comments that suggestion number 4 is not balanced and doesn’t fit here. Maybe I should edit my fist post hmm
and update current conclusions.
If there is a guild that has a problem with me, then I will have my guild declare a war with that guild. Suddenly, there is no penalty for PvP between my guild and theirs.
Same thing with a node - as far as we are aware, node wars will be a thing.
If I want to find some meaningful PvP - something where I gain material wealth if I am successful - I will go looking for caravans. When I find one, there i no penalty for attempting to take it over.
If I want my PvP exploits to have an actual impact on the world, then my target is a castle or a node siege. Once again, there is no penalty for this PvP.
The only time there is a penalty for PvP is when you are engaging in small time, materially worthless PvP.
The vast majority of the players that look at the PvP system as a whole in Ashes and think to themselves "hey, that doesn't suit me, I want to be able to attack people more freely than that" are the kind of low status griefers that the corruption system is actually designed to take out of the game.
PvP players that can look at the big picture, they are excited. They don't care about the corruption system because it won't concern them.
The mid of a real PvP player in regards to this would be thinking "why bother going after a peasant quarrying stone, when I can instead go after the merchant transporting stone, or a castle built from stone".
Lol. Yess - thats exactly what we did in bdo- we declared war to anyone who wanted to take our spots. And u know what? It doesnt work. People can just leave a guild and join it later after they reach certain desired lvl. +later carebears forced "protection" and guild master could exclude members from guild wars.
Caravans yesss.... what are caravans for? Because u cannot possibly have in ur bags a lot of raw materials and u need to transport them using caravans. ^ look at this and think - (even if I successful attack a caravan how much resources I can possibly carry? Will that make me rich?) Not so much.., no.
+ u need to waste ur time looking for one and waiting for them to ambush and even if u succeed u gain not so much...
So the best way to get rich is to farm yourself.
Okey let's say u contest best spots with other players. How can u do that in current system = u can't it's mostly not worth the risk = open world PvP is dead.
[What if u need to contest a spot with a bot. Bots doesnt care if they die 1, 15 or 100 times.= No way to get rid of bots in real time... u need to report and wait 2 weeks for ban... (And that's one of the reasons I wanted this sugestion number 4. 25min(...))]
To sum up - how to get rich? Buy gold form botters. Because u can't even contest best farming spots and it's just a waste of time.
Ps. Sieges once a week doesnt satisfy any PvP player. Mayby u are not PvP player and u don't like real risk vs reward systems. But this game is definitely not risk vs reward as it is now. It's just carebears farm factory with fights on wooden swords once a week or month during sieges. Definitely not what Steven promised.
When Intrepid talk about PvP in terms of meaningfulness and such, they are talking about all forms of PvP. When you talk about PvP, you are only talking about one type of PvP.
You are trying to get one type of PvP to function as everything that Intrepid say they want from all types of PvP.
WoW has two types of PvP.
BDO has two types of PvP.
Archeage has three types of PvP.
Ashes has eight types of PvP - that we know of.
See the difference? See why you can't take what you liked or disliked in other games and apply it to PvP in Ashes?
According to ur terms of " PvP types " bdo has node siege, castle siege, open world, battleground, caravans (yes they have it, But caravan is npc), guild wars, world bosses pvp and desert. So it's 8 and no I don't see a difference. Overall open world PvP is the most freaquent and (In my honest and humble opinion xd) the most important because u encounter it on daily basis when nodes are once a week or two..
Okey I want my favourite type of PvP to function well.. whats wrong with that? Tell my honestly why u don't want balanced open world PvP and what u are afraid of?
However, I should have included battlegrounds in BDO.
Sieges in BDO - which I counted - are functionally the same between node and castle. They count as one type of PvP in BDO. They count as two different PvP types in Ashes because each siege type will have different goals and different mechanics.
Guild wars in that game functionally are open PvP without karma. They are used in the same way - as a means of protecting a specific region - and basically little else. As guilds will have abilities and adorns specific to them that will assist in fighting along side members of your guild, this counts as a different type of PvP in Ashes.
While I am no longer keeping up to date with BDO patches, as far as I am aware they put bosses on a fixed spawn schedule, and removed PvP for 15 minutes when they spawn. This literally removed boss PvP from the game - however even if it existed, it is actually just "PvP", and not it's own thing.
Desert PvP is just normal PvP with a different risk system placed over it.
So, sure, BDO has three, not two - open world which includes karma, guild and desert, sieges and arena.
My bad.
This is literally only the case if that is how the game is designed.
This is not how Ashes is being designed. Ashes is being designed in a way where the most important type of PvP will be sieges, and the most frequent type of PvP will be caravan raids.
Now, again, you can post all you want about how you want Ashes PvP to be more like BDO PvP (which is essentially what you are doing). However, be aware that Intrepid have looked at BDO PvP and said "no thanks". It is their job to consider these things, and you coming in and telling them what you think is no different than someone coming in to your work and telling you that they think you should be more like the guy down the road.
As has been said, if that is what you want from a game, Ashes is not the game for you.
+You will want to own a freehold if you like to farm, yes
+A: The election of a military node's mayor involves gladiatorial arena style competition
And i hate bdo pvp system it has literaly nothing i mentioned and is super unbalanced and unfair for pvp players. I literaly quit becouse of that system BDO has the most care bear like system i have ever seen... and u say they disabled pvp during world bosses hahahahhahahahaha im glad i quit that sh*ty game. Okey mayby one thing is similar to what i want - in bdo there is no debuff for corrupted but thats it.
That's what i think about bdo system:
but i also forgot to mention pay to win tears that could recover ur losed xp. bullsh*t affffff.
Not sure if I'll use it for farming though. More likely for crafting, since top end gear will require top end crafting.
And if you are in to arena style PvP, then I guess that could be something for you.
- You're thinking that a Group of Green-Players could harass a Red-Player
But the thing is ... the ONLY way to become a Red-Player is to kill a Green-Player ... that would mean that after the repeated-attack(s) the Green-Player would've made it very clear that he/she did not want to engageIt'll go like this
- Green specifically targets & attacks Green = Purple
- If Green KILLS green = Red
- ( in short, a transition of Purple to Red for the Attacker )
The loophole to this is ... a Green-Player & a tough NPC is " duking-it-out " and both are almost dead ... Another Green-Player steps-in and begins to specifically-attack the Green-Player whose almost dead- the Attacker does NOT deal the killing blow ... but the NPC does
- thus resulting in the Attacker remaining Purple ... although he/she inadvertently did kill the Green-Player
- ( this doesn't change the Fact that the Purple-Player still risks of Crafting Materials of being looted )
During testing phases, Intrepid could make changes to better fit a scenario like this - which most likely will happen because Alpha Testers will most likely try to test ( break & fix ) this Corruption System the most.And Beta Testing being " more refined ", but still not perfectNow unless i'm missing anything ... why do you want a Green-Player to turn Purple when attacking Red ? Because the way how it is now
- via Green attacks & kills Red = Attackee remains Green
... it's set-up to where its like Payback for the Green-Player(s) who died.( for now. when testing starts, testers should explore it further )
However ... simply becoming a Red-player already denotes that you PKed a Green-Player when they didn't want to engage + didn't fight back once ... SOOO
the POV of the PvPers = it might be Harassment
the POV of the PvEers = its actually sweet karma
( " what goes around, comes around " )
Especially since the Red-Player had to specifically-target the Green-Player who died ... which never fought back once
@Szejm So this doesn't really help your stance in the matter
Anything else you'd like to add ?
EDIT: either way, the Red-Player was still "in the wrong" . And is getting what he/she deserves (?)
Hey ... so as long as a Solution has already been found - I'm okay with that
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