Argentdawn said: This thread could have been "meaningful" but you've dragged it down to a thread of you complaining regardless of input of others. Grow up a little bit and realize the amount of people and time that is being invested into this project isn't going to cater to individuals and for you not to have realized that is baffling. We have access to some content... test it and enjoy it instead of complaining that you (a number in a large pool of people) had to wait a week to see gameplay.
We really need to get past mischaracterizing my arguments. I never asked for INDIVIDUAL engagement.
I am also not complaining some people had to wait TWO weeks. That doesn't matter. What matters is what it was like when we got there. Like night and day.
Engagement was critical to know I wasn't wasting my time reporting bugs. Not posting = not reading. That is the only safe presumption that can be made in this situation.
Every dev will tell you they're reading what you submit. Every dev I have attempted to engage to this day, has been shown a liar. I HOPE Intrepid is different. I desperately want them to be different. It's why I backed.
I'm not sorry btw. You still need to learn to read what you bought.
OH! You're the guy I already had to block on discord for trolling me to no end.
I guess that's what people do though when they have no counter argument. Enjoy being able to have seen the MMO while the rest of us wait years though. Must be nice.
@Gigabear I think you are overblowing this a little bit. I am actually not sure what your problem is anymore.
Now a question back to you. Do you value the opinion of people like me? Do you think you could make a short summary what the actual issue is and what you liked to get changed?
@Gigabear I think you are overblowing this a little bit. I am actually not sure what your problem is anymore.
Now a question back to you. Do you value the opinion of people like me? Do you think you could make a short summary what the actual issue is and what you liked to get changed?
Pay to Influence.That's my issue. Being unable to have a meaningful experience with this process because I didn't drop $2500 and buy into the Phoenix Initiative.And even that because I did not know of the game at that time.
@Gigabear Same difference. Everyone here already understands that you feel entitled.
To be entitled, I would be asking for special treatment. I am acting the opposite of entitled and asking for EQUAL treatment. I am an Alpha 1 backer. I seek the same engagement and consideration other alpha 1 backers have already received. No more. No less. That is what is fair and proper.
Down with Pay to Influence. It's as bad as P2W
You misinterpret the title "Alpha 1 Stress Test". The stress test is not a part of the Alpha itself - the "Alpha 1" part just indicates that the test is being done around Alpha 1. They wanted to limit the Stress Test for the first two weeks to a smaller number of people than the full Stress Test, so they limited it in probably the most intuitive, obvious, and efficient way - the highest paying and longest staying backers. I mean, they already have a list... why not use it? Plus, if they had done it any other way and some of the top tier backers didn't get in, I'm sure they'd be making an even bigger fuss than you.
You missed 2 weeks of content that was never going to exist originally, and that you were never promised. Actually, that's wrong. You were delayed two weeks from experiencing content that was never going to exist originally and that you didn't actually pay for. The Alpha 1 Stress Test wasn't a part of any of the packages you purchased; therefore, it was complimentary. Usually, when people receive gifts, they say "thank you". Instead, because of a paltry two week delay on the latest content, content which you so clearly dislike even after getting access to it, you are saying that "Pay to Influence" is as bad as Pay to Win. You're suddenly saying that Intrepid Studios has "gone too far" and that the MMO community will turn against them because you weren't given as much time to feel special as a few other people were?
You should gain a little perspective and realize that there's a large group of actively contributing people who aren't able to experience the content at all, and yet you do - while complaining feverishly in the process. Your arguments are illogical and contradictory, not to mention hypocritical. You conveniently ignore that you're using your $1000 spent on the game to justify that you deserve a place at the start of the Stress Test on the grounds that admission to the test shouldn't be based on how much people pay...
So I take my story to the perspective backers. I explain to THEM how even $500 and another $500 in cosmetics wasn't enough to be considered supportive. Wasn't enough to get heard. Was still excluded from everything relevant. Still to this day have not seen a single unfiltered screenshot of the actual game. Think you they will take it on faith. NO, not a chance.
(btw, whether they agree with you or not, no backer is going to breach the NDA)
I guarantee that if it were enough for you to get into the Alpha 1 Stress Test during the initial two week period, you wouldn't care less about money being involved, and you certainly wouldn't be condemning the studio.
Usually I try to keep my comments a bit more... polite, but as someone who missed both the Kickstarter, as well as the only cosmetic pack I have been interested in (by a month ), and has yet to spend anything on the game itself, this thread is a real eyesore.
I must confess that even after reading the thread again, I'm having a hard time pinning down exactly what Gigabear is really upset about. I have a feeling that he is as well. He made some "not so wise comments" and now is taking full broadside shots from every angle possible. As well as firing even more "poorly managed comments" back defensively.
@Gigabear Take a break and cool down. Wait until you are thinking straight again, Bro.
I am sorry to go on but this post really hits a nerve. I know first hand how many hours I pour into this community and my other work and that is in addition to my IRL job. Rant over.
Belle you are and always will be an amazing and caring moderator and community member. I am so glad that someone so close to intrepid is speaking up about this issue and I couldn't agree more with you
Now, I'm gonna go on a bit of a rant again aswell.
Had the situation been reverse, say if Intrepid decided to use different methods in terms of deciding who gets to test the stress test version of the alpha, and if this implicated that you got into the test, would you have gotten angry? Because you're talking as if you're a crusader for the belittled, when in reality it just seems as though you're pissed that you didn't get into the stress test yourself, yet. A test in which none of us were entitled to join in on, because it wasn't announced until recently.
As far as I can remember, A1 was scheduled for a long while to launch in dec 2018. The devs have stated multiple times that they are ahead of schedule, but if everything should be "equal" in that sense and if we should go entirely by what was stated years ago by the devs, none of us would be testing right now. We would still be months away from the actual test.
People getting in earlier than you for a purpose of testing is not something which you should see as unfair, but rather something good. People are preparing the testing environments for you to come in later and test less than what would have been necessarry, had you gotten in earlier, giving you more time to actually enjoy the game.
Testing is not for playing and entertainment in itself. Sure you may have a great time finding bugs and help the game develope, but ultimately it's like a job, and Intrepid are in every right to choose who they want to do that job if they haven't promised otherwise, which they hadn't.
If this is such a dealbreaker for you, and if you feel as though you're entitled to be part of the testing and you're pissed that that wish did not come true, then maybe you should take a break and clear your head. Figure out what the game really is to you and whether or not people fixing the game before you do is going to take all the fun out of TESTING.
Hey Intrepid. Since money is all you care about...Can we get a kickstarter together...How much would it take to perma hardware ban Gigabear xD
This dude is on your discord and forums speaking utter stupidity.
Gigabear. Ima have to unfollow this thread as its spamming my email with utter nonsense, so here it is in its simplest form.
You need a new hobby mate...If Pay to Influence was really an issue you cared about, you would have brought up the fact that Avatars get to what? Name a castle, town, boss, and get a pet for an NPC they create? THAT is pay to influence, and its damn well deserved, thats like buying a 10k$ lottery ticket knowing the max prize was NOWHERE near 10k....Maybe a few lucky Streamers and youtubers will make 10k+ off the game...
You need to find your head son, your ranting, dishing insults, and acting like an absolute buffoon. Not going to slice ya some cake, I genuinely think you are one of, if not the most disliked person in this community, and were a whole year+ from launch.. If that doesnt speak volumes about your attitude, and character...I have no clue what will...And honestly, it looks like thats what you WANT, which truly baffles me.
You are entitled to your opinion, and we the community thank you for expressing it. I appreciate that you have stepped forward and addressed your concerns. I think we can all agree, that the community feels pretty strongly on the matter, and not in your favor. So can you PLEASE just stop already. Go watch anime or some shit for a year and maybe the community will forget who Gigabear is, and once the game launches and you absolutely love it, you can enjoy it with us...
I keep seeing the term "pay to influence" however I have watched all the material, Q&As etc and although the Devs listen to ideas and criticism I honestly don't believe that regardless of the amount of donations etc Steve and Intrepid receive they will be even remotely moved from their and in particular Steven's vision for the game. If people pay more to be able to test for longer and influence the game by spending more time finding bugs and making the game better for the rest of us, that is fine with me.
At the end of the day the only person who could really be accused of pay to influence advantage is Steven who is basically paying for the game. What we as backers are adding is a drop in the ocean to what he has fronted up.
The only significant influence backers have had is getting more of the pre envisaged features into the game at launch. Thanks Backers, due to your pay to influence antics we will get the Tulnar, The Under-Realm and many other great things. Just my 2 pence worth.
I'm not sorry btw. You still need to learn to read what you bought.
OH! You're the guy I already had to block on discord for trolling me to no end.
I guess that's what people do though when they have no counter argument.
You haven't responded to a single argument made, neither in the forum nor on discord. You only rant about some injustice that doesn't exist outside your head or just ignore it alltogether to respond to some insult somewhere else so as not to have to respond to the points that would deflate your whole base of ranting into nonexistence.
So suit yourself, when reason is devalued into trolling, you know everything is lost. I will still have my fun with your utter entitlement.
It's truly amusing tho that your main argument is pay 2 influence when A0 wasn't paid at all, which is the one consistent thing you are q.qing about.
None of your argument are consistent and none are based on truth since you keep ignoring the statements made by Intrepid.
But hey, you are in the right, right? Cause ignoring Developer statements and making up some nonexistent crusade without a reason is what you do.
Remember ladies and Gentlemen. NDA lift in February and we'll all get to be a part of this process and offer INFORMED feedback on the MMORPG, Ashes of Creation.
Whoops. Gotta wait for Alpha one in 7 months. Unannounced indefinite NDA extension.
Whoops. Alpha 1 is a BR. Get wrecked!
Come back in 7 more months at best if you want to have an informed discussion on Ashes of Creation. Unless you're in the double secret club that's been playing the actual game for 8 months of course.
Geesh people, we might have better things to do. Cant we all just get along... heres a joke to help your day get off to a better start. What to you all a fat Psychic? A Four-chin teller... Now go and be at peace
Remember @Gigabear The kickstarter stated that Alpha 2 will be the persistent universe. Noone claimed Alpha 1 to be that already. A0 was shown in streams in it's full extend as well as had not things like the PAX gameplay. Do you know what family and friends alpha means? Or understand the process of making a game at all? Apparently not. Pathetic you discredit them to go through it in an efficient way instead of throwing away your money like a good company.
Check your privilidges please. You are not entitled to demand things that were never for sale.
Oh btw, point made and proven, once again your ignored all arguments made. :lollipop lick:
"Friends and family" alpha means "these people are more important to us than you to our studio and this game and we really only care about them."
It is precisely what I was trying to get away from when I backed under assurances of transparent and community driven development.
To date the only ones who have received either are "friends and family." Apparent friendship is for sale. Funny that, I thought it was just something that came about naturally.
I can only assume by Double Secret club you mean the
Phoenix Initiative guys. Well it was very explicit in the package they bought
that they would be part of a secret club and would have greater access and
interaction with the developers. ofc they get extra contact with the devs I mean
they paid for it, it was not hidden, it was out there in the open for everyone
to see. Hell they get their own private/secret Live Q&A every month. And if
they aren't they should be the ones here complaining.
Now. is
this why you are so sure that the Phoenix Initiative guys are being shown the
actual game giga? Assuming that "actual game" was even a thing now.
Anyway.
You want to be treated equally than everyone else I get that, but these guys
bought a direct line to the devs, an extra set of answered questions every
month, a secret room to hang out with the devs. Of course, they are going to be
shown some extra things. You may not like it, the same way people get jealous
when they see the rich guys boarding the private jets while they get to
tolerate a kid kicking their seats the whole flight.
Reality
is, in the day to day interaction with the devs in their secret room, things
about the game are going to come out. Since its under 100 people asking the
questions in their secret Q&As I'm sure they don't get the repeated questions we all get. The devs
will confide in them some things they don't confide in us the normal crowd.
This because they have built rapport with the PI guys that they don't have with
the rest of the community.
Saying
they shouldn't, is the same as saying that you think that their package should
be devalued. I'm sure you're familiar with this, package devaluation.
TL: DR:
If the PI guys were not getting extra access, extra leaks, extra questions,
extra interaction, and a direct line with the devs. They should be the ones
complaining.
This thread, is yet another demonstration of a concept I talk about during my streams which I blame the players for a lot of the problems in the MMO genre community. A small segment of the population is self-entitled to wanting something that they don't have any sane or logical expectation to.
As long as the title of the testing phase is Alpha 1 - Stress testing than Steven and Intrepid can invite whoever they want in whatever over they want.
As soon as they make the testing Alpha 1, then everyone who paid to have Alpha 1 access has purchased the right to play.
Personally, give how many temper tantrums some people have thrown about this, they would have been better off doing all the Alpha 1 - Phase 1 testing with the Alpha 0 stress testers.
I can only assume by Double Secret club you mean the
Phoenix Initiative
I actually meant alpha 0 members.
But as to your points on the PI. Unfortunately, YES, they did sell all of that and have to uphold it now.I knew that going in. But then we started ADDING new perks, like earlier stress testing access to what was, as written, the SAME alpha 1 level of access.
And I'm only not in the PI because I wasn't here in KS. Intrepid backers can't buy into it. I thought I could overcome that and still do something positive for the game anyway. It was working. But then I heard Steven telling his "most supportive backers" to explicitly withhold info from the rest of us that wasn't even under NDA, and I knew then I would never be relevant to this process.
We're not valued, It's obvious. Most don't even bother trying to deny it and instead argue why things should be as they are.
This thread, is yet another demonstration of a concept I talk about during my streams which I blame the players for a lot of the problems in the MMO genre community. A small segment of the population is self-entitled to wanting something that they don't have any sane or logical expectation to.
I am entitled to transparent development, and have been so ever since it was offered freely as a stated mission goal for the studio. If taking them at their word on delivering this is not sane or logical, we are in VERY BIG trouble.
I'm sorry if there are all sorts of asterisks on that commitment I didn't know about, but they should have told us that it was dependent on backer level to avoid any confusion.
As long as some community members have information outside of what was explicitly paid for that the rest of us are forbidden to know, this process cannot be transparent. It is the opposite. If this ideal was never feasible, then it should never have been attempted.
So something we should remember about transparency is that its ugly, and when something gets changed to better suit a need or developing thought process it can look dirty. thats why studios don't do what Intrepid is doing. It can be better to be perceived as credible with no information or knowledge then be almost completely honest and open and let a few problems blow up and damage your credibility. points for bravery
I think I’m done extending the benefit of the doubt here. I don’t even know that Gigabear is really feeling a sense of entitlement, I think it’s as simple as saying that some people aren’t happy unless they have something to complain about. The confusion is that Gigabear doesn’t seem to be quite sure what that is, or isn’t able to properly articulate it.
And that is precicely why you are a pathetic entitled little brat @Gigabear
You are saying you can buy their friendship to a level they had with people well before they started this project, people that have been a positive force for months before the kickstarter was going life without expecting to be compensated, people that do this for a living? Pathetic
Noone could buy this phase. It tests (and I am talking generally here, not this alpha 0 specifically) PRE-Alpha things. Things that will make you crash in the loading screen, things that make you sit in loading screens forever. Things that make even the simplest tasks impossible, that is what a pre-alpha usually is. Testing TECHNICAL things, like launchers functionality and basic interactions between server and host.
Stresstests come to mind, they are not intended to test gameplay, but server load capacity to find flaws) That is the nature of pre-alphas, so when the paid alphas come, people have a smoother experience that is not built on excrutiating frustrating hours of waiting and crashing.
Otherwise people like you will rant about the unplayable state of the game and deem it a failure.
The Alpha 0 was planned long before the kickstarter, the drawings existed long before the kickstarter.
You decided to not read and ignore all the information that was given and now you rant about your own incompetense.
I think I’m done extending the benefit of the doubt here. I don’t even know that Gigabear is really feeling a sense of entitlement, I think it’s as simple as saying that some people aren’t happy unless they have something to complain about. The confusion is that Gigabear doesn’t seem to be quite sure what that is, or isn’t able to properly articulate it.
And how often did you see me complain back in the day? It was pretty darn rare. Ironically, the first minor brush I had with an unpopular opinion was in fact them missing the NDA lift. At the time, I said much of what I am saying here, but more muted. I expected it to blow over once A1 hit and I got to see the game. But that didn't happen, and here I am wondering just what it is I am not permitted to know despite up until now having been firmly on the hype train.
This thread, is yet another demonstration of a concept I talk about during my streams which I blame the players for a lot of the problems in the MMO genre community. A small segment of the population is self-entitled to wanting something that they don't have any sane or logical expectation to.
I am entitled to transparent development, and have been so ever since it was offered freely as a stated mission goal for the studio. If taking them at their word on delivering this is not sane or logical, we are in VERY BIG trouble.
I'm sorry if there are all sorts of asterisks on that commitment I didn't know about, but they should have told us that it was dependent on backer level to avoid any confusion.
As long as some community members have information outside of what was explicitly paid for that the rest of us are forbidden to know, this process cannot be transparent. It is the opposite. If this ideal was never feasible, then it should never have been attempted.
Except there is no development that isn't transparent.
You are still upset that someone who paid more than you at an earlier time than you was allowed to put their hands on the Battle Royale mode before you.
You keep trying to thumb Intrepid in the eye for all the wrong reasons.
You are calling their integrity into question that they aren't being upfront, but they are in fact being transparent. Which is ironic since you lack anything that resembles integrity since you said you weren't going to play in the stress testing as long as their was an NDA yet you did, so if anything you are the pot calling the kettle black.
More specifically, can you please show me anywhere that it says that all community members would always have access to the same information at the same time, all the time every time?
It is evident that you have no clue about testing and development and why NDAs are needed at certain times for certain situations.
None of that matters though, but Intrepid has been transparent and you can't provide any instances where they haven't been.
Now, if you really want to get into the nitty-gritty about Intrepid not living up to their word, there are several key places where we can have that discussion, but your still being on your soap-box about having to wait 2 weeks to stress test is getting a little stale at this point.
Seems to me that having an NDA planned and stating that you have an NDA planned is an act of transparency all in itself. "Transparency" as defined by or taken to the full by your implication would have to include cam channels, both front and behind every terminal for every employee that did ANY work on the game at any time. Including live cams on EVERY game planning/bull session in every conference room.
Utterly ridiculous.
Your soapbox is really a flimsy cardboard box. It isn't supporting you very well. It is getting crumpled.
Additionally on the "Pay to Influence" argument, nothing about "Alpha 0" seems like it was open to influence anything. It was about judging and fixing game stability and only a limited number of logins were required for that, for now. That is testing things that are about stability.
Why try and damage what could be a great game with bullcrap misinformation and busted logic? It just makes you look like an incompetent paid tool of an incompetent AoC competitor.
I've updated the OP and will put the relevant section here. As far as I'm concerned it no longer serves a purpose and I don't intend to follow it much any longer.
Edit 10/7: Since posting this thread, I have had an opportunity to witness Intrepid Studios show they very much DO care about this crop of testers, and the week prior was not at all representative. Alex spent an HOUR helping one user alone with a PC issue and was engaged all night, as was Steven.
Further, the improvement in this build from the last was quite extraordinary. So much was patched in and fixed that to think they weren't reading our feedback is simply impossible.
I wish I had seen that before I made this thread, it wouldn't even exist. My conclusions were totally erroneous in every respect and the thread's premise is mostly invalidated.
Comments
I am also not complaining some people had to wait TWO weeks. That doesn't matter. What matters is what it was like when we got there. Like night and day.
Engagement was critical to know I wasn't wasting my time reporting bugs. Not posting = not reading. That is the only safe presumption that can be made in this situation.
Every dev will tell you they're reading what you submit. Every dev I have attempted to engage to this day, has been shown a liar. I HOPE Intrepid is different. I desperately want them to be different. It's why I backed.
I guess that's what people do though when they have no counter argument. Enjoy being able to have seen the MMO while the rest of us wait years though. Must be nice.
I think you are overblowing this a little bit. I am actually not sure what your problem is anymore.
Now a question back to you. Do you value the opinion of people like me? Do you think you could make a short summary what the actual issue is and what you liked to get changed?
You missed 2 weeks of content that was never going to exist originally, and that you were never promised. Actually, that's wrong. You were delayed two weeks from experiencing content that was never going to exist originally and that you didn't actually pay for. The Alpha 1 Stress Test wasn't a part of any of the packages you purchased; therefore, it was complimentary. Usually, when people receive gifts, they say "thank you". Instead, because of a paltry two week delay on the latest content, content which you so clearly dislike even after getting access to it, you are saying that "Pay to Influence" is as bad as Pay to Win. You're suddenly saying that Intrepid Studios has "gone too far" and that the MMO community will turn against them because you weren't given as much time to feel special as a few other people were?
You should gain a little perspective and realize that there's a large group of actively contributing people who aren't able to experience the content at all, and yet you do - while complaining feverishly in the process. Your arguments are illogical and contradictory, not to mention hypocritical. You conveniently ignore that you're using your $1000 spent on the game to justify that you deserve a place at the start of the Stress Test on the grounds that admission to the test shouldn't be based on how much people pay...
(btw, whether they agree with you or not, no backer is going to breach the NDA)
I guarantee that if it were enough for you to get into the Alpha 1 Stress Test during the initial two week period, you wouldn't care less about money being involved, and you certainly wouldn't be condemning the studio.
Usually I try to keep my comments a bit more... polite, but as someone who missed both the Kickstarter, as well as the only cosmetic pack I have been interested in (by a month
I must confess that even after reading the thread again, I'm having a hard time pinning down exactly what Gigabear is really upset about. I have a feeling that he is as well. He made some "not so wise comments" and now is taking full broadside shots from every angle possible. As well as firing even more "poorly managed comments" back defensively.
@Gigabear Take a break and cool down. Wait until you are thinking straight again, Bro.
much love
Had the situation been reverse, say if Intrepid decided to use different methods in terms of deciding who gets to test the stress test version of the alpha, and if this implicated that you got into the test, would you have gotten angry? Because you're talking as if you're a crusader for the belittled, when in reality it just seems as though you're pissed that you didn't get into the stress test yourself, yet. A test in which none of us were entitled to join in on, because it wasn't announced until recently.
As far as I can remember, A1 was scheduled for a long while to launch in dec 2018. The devs have stated multiple times that they are ahead of schedule, but if everything should be "equal" in that sense and if we should go entirely by what was stated years ago by the devs, none of us would be testing right now. We would still be months away from the actual test.
People getting in earlier than you for a purpose of testing is not something which you should see as unfair, but rather something good. People are preparing the testing environments for you to come in later and test less than what would have been necessarry, had you gotten in earlier, giving you more time to actually enjoy the game.
Testing is not for playing and entertainment in itself. Sure you may have a great time finding bugs and help the game develope, but ultimately it's like a job, and Intrepid are in every right to choose who they want to do that job if they haven't promised otherwise, which they hadn't.
If this is such a dealbreaker for you, and if you feel as though you're entitled to be part of the testing and you're pissed that that wish did not come true, then maybe you should take a break and clear your head. Figure out what the game really is to you and whether or not people fixing the game before you do is going to take all the fun out of TESTING.
This dude is on your discord and forums speaking utter stupidity.
Gigabear. Ima have to unfollow this thread as its spamming my email with utter nonsense, so here it is in its simplest form.
You need a new hobby mate...If Pay to Influence was really an issue you cared about, you would have brought up the fact that Avatars get to what? Name a castle, town, boss, and get a pet for an NPC they create? THAT is pay to influence, and its damn well deserved, thats like buying a 10k$ lottery ticket knowing the max prize was NOWHERE near 10k....Maybe a few lucky Streamers and youtubers will make 10k+ off the game...
You need to find your head son, your ranting, dishing insults, and acting like an absolute buffoon. Not going to slice ya some cake, I genuinely think you are one of, if not the most disliked person in this community, and were a whole year+ from launch.. If that doesnt speak volumes about your attitude, and character...I have no clue what will...And honestly, it looks like thats what you WANT, which truly baffles me.
You are entitled to your opinion, and we the community thank you for expressing it. I appreciate that you have stepped forward and addressed your concerns. I think we can all agree, that the community feels pretty strongly on the matter, and not in your favor. So can you PLEASE just stop already. Go watch anime or some shit for a year and maybe the community will forget who Gigabear is, and once the game launches and you absolutely love it, you can enjoy it with us...
So suit yourself, when reason is devalued into trolling, you know everything is lost. I will still have my fun with your utter entitlement.
Whoops. Gotta wait for Alpha one in 7 months. Unannounced indefinite NDA extension.
Whoops. Alpha 1 is a BR. Get wrecked!
Come back in 7 more months at best if you want to have an informed discussion on Ashes of Creation. Unless you're in the double secret club that's been playing the actual game for 8 months of course.
A0 was shown in streams in it's full extend as well as had not things like the PAX gameplay.
Do you know what family and friends alpha means? Or understand the process of making a game at all? Apparently not. Pathetic you discredit them to go through it in an efficient way instead of throwing away your money like a good company.
Check your privilidges please. You are not entitled to demand things that were never for sale.
It is precisely what I was trying to get away from when I backed under assurances of transparent and community driven development.
To date the only ones who have received either are "friends and family." Apparent friendship is for sale. Funny that, I thought it was just something that came about naturally.
Now. is this why you are so sure that the Phoenix Initiative guys are being shown the actual game giga? Assuming that "actual game" was even a thing now.
Anyway. You want to be treated equally than everyone else I get that, but these guys bought a direct line to the devs, an extra set of answered questions every month, a secret room to hang out with the devs. Of course, they are going to be shown some extra things. You may not like it, the same way people get jealous when they see the rich guys boarding the private jets while they get to tolerate a kid kicking their seats the whole flight.
Reality is, in the day to day interaction with the devs in their secret room, things about the game are going to come out. Since its under 100 people asking the questions in their secret Q&As I'm sure they don't get the repeated questions we all get. The devs will confide in them some things they don't confide in us the normal crowd. This because they have built rapport with the PI guys that they don't have with the rest of the community.
Saying they shouldn't, is the same as saying that you think that their package should be devalued. I'm sure you're familiar with this, package devaluation.
TL: DR: If the PI guys were not getting extra access, extra leaks, extra questions, extra interaction, and a direct line with the devs. They should be the ones complaining.
As long as the title of the testing phase is Alpha 1 - Stress testing than Steven and Intrepid can invite whoever they want in whatever over they want.
As soon as they make the testing Alpha 1, then everyone who paid to have Alpha 1 access has purchased the right to play.
Personally, give how many temper tantrums some people have thrown about this, they would have been better off doing all the Alpha 1 - Phase 1 testing with the Alpha 0 stress testers.
But as to your points on the PI. Unfortunately, YES, they did sell all of that and have to uphold it now.I knew that going in. But then we started ADDING new perks, like earlier stress testing access to what was, as written, the SAME alpha 1 level of access.
And I'm only not in the PI because I wasn't here in KS. Intrepid backers can't buy into it. I thought I could overcome that and still do something positive for the game anyway. It was working. But then I heard Steven telling his "most supportive backers" to explicitly withhold info from the rest of us that wasn't even under NDA, and I knew then I would never be relevant to this process.
We're not valued, It's obvious. Most don't even bother trying to deny it and instead argue why things should be as they are.
I'm sorry if there are all sorts of asterisks on that commitment I didn't know about, but they should have told us that it was dependent on backer level to avoid any confusion.
As long as some community members have information outside of what was explicitly paid for that the rest of us are forbidden to know, this process cannot be transparent. It is the opposite. If this ideal was never feasible, then it should never have been attempted.
The Alpha 0 was planned long before the kickstarter, the drawings existed long before the kickstarter.
You are still upset that someone who paid more than you at an earlier time than you was allowed to put their hands on the Battle Royale mode before you.
You keep trying to thumb Intrepid in the eye for all the wrong reasons.
You are calling their integrity into question that they aren't being upfront, but they are in fact being transparent. Which is ironic since you lack anything that resembles integrity since you said you weren't going to play in the stress testing as long as their was an NDA yet you did, so if anything you are the pot calling the kettle black.
More specifically, can you please show me anywhere that it says that all community members would always have access to the same information at the same time, all the time every time?
It is evident that you have no clue about testing and development and why NDAs are needed at certain times for certain situations.
None of that matters though, but Intrepid has been transparent and you can't provide any instances where they haven't been.
Now, if you really want to get into the nitty-gritty about Intrepid not living up to their word, there are several key places where we can have that discussion, but your still being on your soap-box about having to wait 2 weeks to stress test is getting a little stale at this point.
Seems to me that having an NDA planned and stating that you have an NDA planned is an act of transparency all in itself. "Transparency" as defined by or taken to the full by your implication would have to include cam channels, both front and behind every terminal for every employee that did ANY work on the game at any time. Including live cams on EVERY game planning/bull session in every conference room.
Utterly ridiculous.
Your soapbox is really a flimsy cardboard box. It isn't supporting you very well. It is getting crumpled.
Additionally on the "Pay to Influence" argument, nothing about "Alpha 0" seems like it was open to influence anything. It was about judging and fixing game stability and only a limited number of logins were required for that, for now. That is testing things that are about stability.
Why try and damage what could be a great game with bullcrap misinformation and busted logic? It just makes you look like an incompetent paid tool of an incompetent AoC competitor.
Edit 10/7: Since posting this thread, I have had an opportunity to witness Intrepid Studios show they very much DO care about this crop of testers, and the week prior was not at all representative. Alex spent an HOUR helping one user alone with a PC issue and was engaged all night, as was Steven.
Further, the improvement in this build from the last was quite extraordinary. So much was patched in and fixed that to think they weren't reading our feedback is simply impossible.
I wish I had seen that before I made this thread, it wouldn't even exist. My conclusions were totally erroneous in every respect and the thread's premise is mostly invalidated.
What a bummer.