Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content



  • ritchieshritchiesh Member
    edited April 2019
    For me a quest that is memorable something that is different and stands out, having you interact and progress the story in new ways, for me one that really stands out was the Death Knight starting area in WoW Wrath of the Lich King. Actually being able to see the world change as you go through the quest line with phasing and having it end in a giant battle which set the stage for Death Knights in the expansion was amazing.

    For events, again with Wrath of the Lich King, the scourge invasion event I’ll never forget, starting out with plague barrels in the world that you can interact with, slowly turning you undead and then you had the ability to bite other players. We ended up infecting all of Stormwind and having a ton of Horde there as well. Seeing something large scale that fun and interactive with a large amount of the community was pretty amazing, and it stood out as it wasn’t just another raid or quest line, but something unique that was time limited that people won’t be able to experience again
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  • MattTheMomMattTheMom Member
    edited April 2019
    2 things about quests got me in the past, either it was the deep lore or the feeling of accomplishment.

    The lore aspect was in GW2, i read the books and was genuinely interested in the world. Characters i met in the Story quests were famous people i read myths about, it felt great being the hero next to already famous heroes.

    The satisfying feeling of accomplishment i always got from playing with other players, when i played Albion Online, it was a grindfest. There was always the need for materials to finish certain guild buildings. We had those little guild quests we added for our self. The joy the guild leader, there pvp group, the other grinders expressed when they saw what was possible and how much got accomplished was just the best about this game. It got the same feeling in Rend, even tho it wasn't a traditional mmorpg.
    I think all of us got this feeling a few times, just gratitude that got expressed for things we did.

    Maybe that is idealistic, but in a living breathing world when players have to make choices and pledge them self for a cause. I see it being possible. That is also what i expect from Ashes, to hit me on that front.

    Thank you for making the game.

  • poisonzpoisonz Member, Braver of Worlds
    Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content
    What makes a quest memorable? Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?[/i]

    southshore vs tarren mill when we had no battlegrounds and heavy traffic of players was often that area and word spread that horde or alliances took control of the zone causing chaos. Attacking alliances or horde capital cities during vanilla to spread world of your guilds or friends achievement for bragging rights and name recognition. World bosses during Vanilla /BC and how much of a headache they are for certain gear u needed causing world PvP until one raid group gives up for one to attempt to kill it... or be that annoying guy who kills the healers just to watch them wipe :relieved: and how dungeons or raids felt like an adventure before even entering them... oof

    was a nuisance but that was my most fun I've had in an MMO anything after felt handed to me with little 2 no effort :*

    now for another beer


  • grisugrisu Member
    Most memorable then there is probably 3 things sticking out for me.
    Raids with story and dungeons/raids with identity.

    World of Warcraft is a big beast of lore and If I hadn't played Warcraft 2 and 3 I might not have been so emotionally invested but I did and spent countless hours in wikis reading lore.
    So Illidans fight and especially, especiialllllyyy Arthas downfall, count as 2 of the most memorable pieces of content forever.
    There was so much stuff that leads up to it. So much good story and character development. Seeing Arthas on the throne made me shudder and killing him was a mess of emotions (as well as what had to happen next).
    If you can ever find a way to really make this a game that thrieves on story, I hope you can achieve such moments over time, creating characters, not just the quaterly endboss.

    The 2nd one is dungeons/raids with identity. I just tested myself on this and I can still tell you the layout of Blackrock depths, Illidans Black citadell and various others even tho I haven't played them much and it's a decade ago by now.
    Blackrock depths wasn't just a dungeon, it was an underground kingdom fortification. It had a prison, an arena a smithy, a tavern, a throne room and so on. It had an ingame world reason to exist and it felt like a place that could exist the way it does.

    3. Then there are those special people that I got to meet through games, they created some of the greatest memories even tho whatever content we did at the time itself wasn't that spectacular, but then it's just there too.
    Iduno those 3 things are what came to mind immediatly.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. Grisu
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • Anduin KayvaanAnduin Kayvaan Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    So the primary thing that makes questing memorable is story. Give me reason to want to do something so I have ownership in it. Like for example SWTOR has compelling stories because you can see how the NPC interact with you unlike other games where you could murder an entire village and noone blinks an eye. So I guess the good vs evil reputation bars is what I would say. Like in fable or any star wars game where it applies. Let players in the world and NPCs know if you are a trust worthy and good person or if they should shy away from you and avoid you. So "good" players would get a sort of golden aura around them or some indicator of doing good while "evil" players would get cracked skin red eyes horns whatever your flavor. This would give inventive for players to either have a good or bad reputation with the world because it may influence how other players interact with them.
  • ZephiriusZephirius Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 2019
    What makes a quest memorable?
    One of the most memorable quests in my MMOG days was obtaining my epic scimitar for my druid in EQ1 (quest details can be found here: ( ) This was many years ago when I only had dialup, so it took me longer (about 3-4 months). If you read the details, obtaining this scimitar truly was a quest, which by definition is to search or seek for something, usually requiring a considerable time investment. That leads me to say that most MMOGs nowadays that call objectives "quests" really should be a "task," which I believe Ashes of Creations will have (tasks, events, narrative). The point I wish to make is: Make obtaining epic items feel epic, and then later, don't make that epic item irrelevant. So many other MMOGs have done that in the name of progression and just makes the game feel like a rote chore.

    Raids that I will never forget, for better or worse:
    There are quite a few, but for the sake of brevity I'll just make a few comments.

    1. I raided the Plane of Fear in Everquest 1 once and we were told to bind our respawn location there as death would respawn us outside of the plane and we could not re-enter immediately. Anyway, after the raid I went to bed and forgot to rebind outside of the PoF. I mistakenly cast the "Gate" spell which took me to my respawn location and I was greeted by raid level monsters who commenced to rip my face off. This caused a death loop as you can imagine so I had to kill the game process as I could not log out safely. I ended up losing all the gear on that particular corpse(s). It was not a pleasant experience but very memorable. Hopefully no shenanigans like this will be possible in Verra.

    2. Many varied raids in EQ1, EQ2, Dark Age of Camelot, and others
    The teamwork that goes into raids really excites me. Everyone knowing his/her role, having contingency plans when something bad happens (main healer dies, main tank dies, adds are introduced into the encounter, special mechanics by the boss occur, etc), and then finally defeating an encounter--usually after many attempts while everyone tries to figure it out--just gives an overwhelming sense of accomplishment and satisfaction for everyone. It then encourages everyone to find another challenge and overcome it. However, even more than this is having a raid level (PvE or PvP) encounter make an impact that goes beyond just the raid participants. A good example is the relic raids in DAoC. Successfully obtaining a relic from an enemy realm would bestow an increase in melee or spell damage for everyone in the realm that captured it. Then came the task of retaining that relic when enemy forces attempt to reclaim it. There was a purpose and for me that is the most rewarding aspect.
  • I always look forward to the season cosmetic quests. Collecting seasonal drops from mobs or hunting for random spawns for it.

    Of course, increased xp weekends are welcome to surge activity.

    I don't like raids, really. Every one I've done is formulaic and rather stale.
  • jettesnelljettesnell Member, Founder
    What makes a quest memorable, hmm..

    For me, it is when it triggers a sense of discovery and adventure. I know that's a pretty vague way of describing it, but not sure how else to say it. I guess what I'd love to see is for quests actually be "going on a quest" and not simply run an errand. There should be a compelling reason to why you are doing everything without having to read a bunch of text, and there should be an appeal that makes you keep going further with the quest. It should be an adventure. I'd rather have fewer quests and instead have well made interesting long quests that play a big role. The only gave I felt that somewhat consistently provided this feeling to its quests is Runescape.
  • trivialtrivial Member, Founder
    Trade runs into Freedich Island in Archeage. Whether it was for DGS packs or gold trader/dragon essence. Those runs had significant risk, but crazy good rewards. It was never impossible either. You could have scouts on the island before you got there. You could either go in with a massive raid or a small party or even by yourself. Well thought out risk vs reward makes for memorable content.

    As for quests, I generally have never enjoyed questing. Always feels like something you had to do vs something you actually want to do.
  • AnimeAnime Member, Explorer
    In this one game I played we were given a quest to go and steal a womans clothing while she showered. This quest has stayed with me since then.
  • mytheriosmytherios Member
    edited April 2019
    What make a raid, dungeon, quest, ...etc memorial for me is feeling of accomplishment when i finish it. Specially when it is hard enough to make me stop and think of a way to finish it, i don't mind being killed in a raid or a dungeon when we first try it or when we miss the right time to use the right skill, in fact finishing such raid give great feeling, and in the end when we get some weapons or armour that worth the experience it give the best feeling in a game, even if the armour became weaker in the next expansion or patch, if it look good for a transmog then it well still worth the time to get it.
    I like old raids in WoW especially (ICC). As for dungeons FFXIV made a great job in this regard. For quest what make my day is how hard are they as well as a reward that goes with the quest. (Please don't make the quest so easy) i dont mind have a quest to kill 50 mob, but it well be great to have some quests which give you another feeling for e.x. mounts race, crafting certain thing, or deliver something from town to town.
    In the end just don't make things easy that will end in few minutes or bosses acts like a hit box with no real danger at all. As long as we have the feeling of accomplishment in the end of them then every thing is great.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack

    Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content
    What makes a quest memorable? Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    Hard Mode Titan in Final Fantasy XIV which was basically what blocked you from getting your Zenith Weapon, which at the time of launch was basically "the end" of the initial content.

    Had to do this fight 110 times because people couldn't get it right.

    What made it unforgettable was actually getting it done, sadly also sort of was a turn off because the mechanics relied on your ping and latency not your skills.
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
  • Gentle SnowGentle Snow Member, Braver of Worlds
    CmScherwin wrote: »
    No-go quest: escort quest.

    Ha, I love that you included "no go" examples as well as memorable ones! I personally would also nuke every escort quest from orbit, especially if your escortee moves at a speed that's not quite a walk and not quite a run. Just my personal opinion though ;)

    Nuking from orbit is my speciality...

    Anyway I guess something EPIC would be great I mean most mmo's whether it's a raid or a dungeon it all feels very..stale I guess, just make it more flashy, the bosses bigger and make it hard c:

    Other than that something like Chaos castle from MU Online would be fantastic.

    Oh and great lore of course. Tea consumables too. :joy:
  • SkyraSkyra Member
    When it comes to quest in RPG games I found memorable when i get choice. For example if i get a quest to obtain 100 white bunny tails for merchant. It is much more fun if you get multiple ways hot to achieve this. First is obvious you go and slaughter those bunnies yourself. Second you can find hunter NPC who is hunting them and you can kill and rob him so you get , or hi will tell you story how his wife kick him out of house you will drink some beer with him and he will give you some of his bunny tails as reward for supporting him.
    Other thing when it comes to questing is reward should be meaning full and yours actions during those quest should have visible impact on world.

    When it comes to raiding i think it is similar to questing, having more than one way of finishing raid. Other thing is raids (if not all at least some) being real challenge that when done you can be proud that you are in small group of people capable of finishing this raid even after few weeks or even months have passed since it appeared. Also titles for clearing such raids to show of.

    tl;dr having choice how, having visible impact on world, challenging raids, meaningful rewards, meaningful titles
  • Don't make group finder for dungeon and raid especially raids all of us saw what happened to WoW because of such system. I don't mind some instants put not for all the contents some content need to be worked for to reach that will make the content great even before it start.
    Just learn from blizzard mistakes and don't re-do them. They took a great game and destroy it for the sake of accessibility.
  • raeyikraeyik Member
    edited April 2019
    What makes a quest memorable?
    High difficulty which requires teamwork and a lot of prepwork to even pull off, all while being twisted into a beautiful story. The story is very important, but so is having to work for it, put in time for it, and also figure it out - even where to go or who to talk to - . If it's handed to you or there's no challenge to it, then it'll only be remembered if there's an insane story.

    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    There are so many raids and fights from games that I won't forget but his is the one that came to mind first:

    Chain of Promathia for FFXI, before it got nerfed, was a massive storyline expansion that had level caps for different mission stages that each culminated in a very difficult boss fight, especially from chapter 8 and on. But I remember spending a lot of time with my entire guild navigating these tunnels and odd maps that had puzzles along the entire way. I remember wiping 18 people because someone stepped on a trap and the mobs were new and way harder than before. But I especially remember all the fights that required not only really great player skill (not reaction time or rotation per say), insane team-work, and figuring out the boss tactics that never had huge lit up tells to them.

    What made it so unforgettable? There were these epic moments where we could all live or wipe and have to start over again, or even spend another week needing to farm items to continue. The bosses were hard, and you had to work as a team to win, not just memorize a set of boss moves and patterns. The reward... well each chapter didn't have amazing rewards but the end of the 14 or so chapters gave one of the best rings in the game and only people who were dedicated, skilled, and worked well with others were able to get the ring. It became a symbol for people who /check 'ed your character. They knew if you had one of those rings that they were in good hands with you in their party.

    I'm on the same boat as the guy who talked about Titan in FFXIV. I will never forget the extreme modes of those fights.... but not because of how hard they were. All you had to do was know your rotation and where to move. I will never forget those fights because as the other poster wrote, it took countless times and you always felt beaten by lag and ping. This is not a fond memory other than the relief of not having to do it again.

    Coil was cool. Turns 4 and 5 were fun fights. I liked the of turn 5 and how everyone needed to know their job but teamwork was more about communication, not synergies which detracted from that teamwork feel. If you failed you either failed because someone messed or you had a dps check you couldn't break through.
  • ShyShy Member
    edited April 2019
    So far the best questing I've dealt with is The Secret world and Guild Wars 2. Strong story and narrative quests from Secret World and more options in completing an area's objective from Guild Wars 2. Of the two I would prefer The Secret World, especially quests like the investigation quests. If Ashes could get the game play proper good and with a strong narrative team that the original Secret World had it would be a masterpiece.

    Also, I want my name here to be capitalized...memo to put that on my to-do list lol.
  • EonaEona Member, Pioneer
    edited April 2019
    Molten Core Vanilla WoW. I was one of the main hunters for our raid group, which translated to one of the people who pulled. Back then, hunters were actually pretty important to the game (actually every class had a reason for being-and every race had a special spell, which can't be said in most mmos now-a-days), with the game having to use crowd control, the ability to pull, and of course dps. There was no mis-direct shot for Vanilla WoW.

    Since I had chosen the beast master tree, what I would do is stand next to the off tank, with the main tank standing where they needed to be, and then I would use Eye of the Beast, and run my pet to the boss. I would then hit the boss once or twice, turn off Eye, and the pet would come racing back to me. It didn't matter if the pet died, since any dps damage done by the critter was counted as aggro done by me. The boss would come charging for me, and you had to learn the art of knowing when to play possum! If you were lucky the off tank and main tank would have the boss and his adds, if not, and you failed to feign costs were a bitch, but part of the game (there were some hunters in our raid group who would pull naked, to avoid repair costs). It was fun, and there was a lot of laughter involved in it!

    It was fun. I loved the Eye of the Beast ability. Then Blizzard took it away, with no rhyme or reason, Ghostcrawler claimed it was an, "Opps, and oh well it is not coming back, we deleted the code." Was one of the reasons I left the game. (Another reason was the birthday that they decided to send us all the same crap from the last year, down to the exact same letter, with the same date as the year before. That was the final proof I needed that they didn't give a damn anymore about the game, and if they didn't care about their product, why should I?)

    The raids I like least are the ones that require 'dancing'. If your whole group has to run left then right then right then right then left then right, and ONE PERSON messes it up due lag, or simply having a slower computer, it sucks. It is frustrating to all of the players, and it tends to suck the enjoyment out of the game, making it a chore instead of entertainment.
  • Quests where it feels like my choice matters usually standout to me.

    I also enjoy quests where it may be a class specific thing, along with quests where you may become temporarily "overpowered."

    As for raids I would think ICC in WoW nailed the atmosphere, and had some really cool fights too such as Valithria because your heals more or less became the dps.
  • KesarakkKesarakk Member, Braver of Worlds
    My friends and I enjoyed doing hidden mounts in WoW. Jumping from one zone to the next, unlocking puzzles, etc. It was a nice break from grinding dungeons and raids that became like work you HAD to do in order to stay current. Instead, we would log on, meet up and work on finding that mount! The pay off was nice, especially if it was something rare that few others had, but my favorite part was the activity, doing something as a group.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men
    edited April 2019
    If the game has a good story and lore then to me it becomes memorable

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • EQ1's Epic 1.0s were some of the greatest and most memorable quest lines. Multiple raids, tons of time spent camping rare spawns and drops, difficult crafting requirements that you either had to work on yourself or hire a trustworthy source. All culminating in an item with a completely unique look and function.
  • The most memorable quest I've played in any game was the old Epic Hunters quest in WoW. It required preparation and at times require practice. (Assuming you were playing near the gear level they had in mind for the quest.) It felt like an accomplishment.

    Otherwise most quests blend together. Go here, loot that, kill those, etc... repeat. If the NPCs are well developed then that is what I might remember, not the quests.
  • ZelasaurusZelasaurus Member, Founder
    Oh man, the old Shaman totem quests that had you running all over Azeroth in WoW immediately came to mind. They were identity-defining, and pushed you to see parts of the world you may have never seen or had a reason to go to, and they made the world feel like this enormous entity from the outset. Not to mention they ended with you getting class-defining abilities that you would use for the rest of your shaman career.

    Some of the most epic raid content for me would have to be the pvp castle sieges in the Abyss in Aion. The scenery was this extremely alien landscape of a sprawling cosmos, with floating islands dotted throughout. And standing majestically on once such island is this awe-inspiring castle. The raid itself was this massive medieval space battle that made me feel transported to a place so impossibly unlike reality and epic in scope, It stuck in my mind forever.
    - RAAAAR!
  • devorandomdevorandom Member, Leader of Men
    I would say that the most memorable types of quests for me are the ones that weave a story into the game play. I like it when you engage in an activity that could be killing or fetching something, but there is more to it than getting to the location where you have to kill the mobs or retrieve the item. Basically any time you can weave more obstacles into the quest that make sense within the context of the quest or having the interactions with the quest's NPCs make how you play the game differently. This all comes with the caveat that it does not make the activity feel like a chore like in escort quests.
  • TeylouneTeyloune Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    What makes a quest memorable?
    When you can't foresee the outcome of it and/or when a quest manages reverse expectations.
    When you have choices that really matter and you don't just get the illusion of choice.

    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?
    I will never forget the Raids in Wildstar.
    Raiding in Wildstar was a ton of fun, and a ton of work. The fights were unforgiving and as you went deeper and deeper, it got more and more intense, and kills were really rewarding.

    Or in Final Fantasy 14 the Omega: Sigmascape (Savage) Raid was very challenging and the rewards were great too, i felt really good when i finally beat it.
    This raid had some unique-ish mechanics that made it very fun to play, things i have never seen before in other games, i saw things that i did not expect at all and i loved it.
  • ilisfetilisfet Member, Braver of Worlds
    Memorable content for me is stuff that's mechanically surprising first and visually surprising second.

    A clear example is Vaults of Madness in the Elder Scrolls Online. The flesh atronach boss stands out because there's 2 pools of lava moving around the arena, forcing everyone to dance instead of stand and deliver. But the most memorable part about that dungeon is the verticality. There wasn't much in the way of platforming, but there was more than what's found in any other segment of ESO. The broken bridges you had to hop down, the vast chasm you leapt into, and the final bridge you navigated by actual platforming to get to the final boss. It was memorable because traversal was so fun.

    Valkyn Skoria of City of Ash II was also memorable for the same reason the flesh atronach was: you were on a small platform with the boss, dodging all kinds of fire and flames with what limited space you had. Skoria even had one attack where he launched a fireball at your location, which generated flame lines once landed for a prolonged period of time, meaning you had to change up where you shuffled too. The keen emphasis on both constant and strategic movement is what made Valkyn Skoria so fun to tank.

    As for quests: RuneScape. RuneScape has the bests quests I've ever seen anywhere anytime. They often treat the player as some random mook, doing mundane tasks with wacky spins on them that require real brain power to clear. The building accomplishment, too, where quests require certain skill levels and quest completion, allowing the game to properly recognize a player's hard work and treat them as the experts they've become by referencing past quest chains and the player's own proficiency.

    The Dragon Slayer quest stook out for me because of a misunderstanding. I joined RuneScape during the one month in 2008 when they had the revamped Lumbridge tutorial where you helped a knight defeat a dragon in someone's basement. The tutorial ends with presumably the knight's death as he collapses the wall to kill the dragon with him. The Dragon Slayer quest, the culmination of the F2P quests and the prerequisite to wear Rune Playbodies, is something I tackled months later. I misremembered the exact dragon from the tutorial and mistook my target for the Dragon Slayer quest as the same one which killed my knight mentor from the tutorial. It was a beautiful emotional crescendo as I not only avenged my master but surpassed him by killing what he could not.

    There were also the transformation quests like Cold War and Monkey Madness, where you had to disguise yourself as a penguin and monkey respectively via transmogrification spells and some player crafting. How the Cold War is foreshadowed in the very first quest, Sheep Sheerer, is unforgettable. Even without knowing it foreshadows such a lategame quest chain, the nod is so out of left field it sticks with everyone. Sheep Sheerer is just a simple quest where a farmer tasks you with sheering his sheep for him, but he makes brief mention to IT being somewhere in the fields... IT is a pair of penguins in a sheep costume.

    The Mourners' quest chain in Ardougne also comes to mind. Namely it's because a miscellaneous quest involves you disposing of some plague-ridden sheep. They're oddly colored and sick, and must be disposed of via the furnace to remove any traces of the disease. Then a few quests later, as you infiltrate the Mourners, you're tasked with painting sheep and poisoning their feed to create the appearance of there being a plague.
    Not to mention the Mourners' quest chain leads into a huge, even mythical, civil war with the elves that seemingly had nothing to do with this plague-ridden human city.

    I'd say what makes RuneScape's quests so enjoyable is their focus on puzzle solving with witty writing and twists. Very rarely do tasks turn out as they seem and even rarer are they quick to complete. Each quest feels like a proper adventure with the answer seldom being "go kill the thing."
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty
    Sadly, I don't think I have done a quest that I would consider memorable but I do have some achievements, like the warlord grind in wow, that I consider memorable.
    2 things I think make a good quest (these don't need to be together) are:
    1. The quest makes you read to learn the quest and leaves you with more questions afterward.
    2. Requires a high level of effort and feels rewarding once it's done. In this case, it's also nice if it's something that a lot of people don't/can't do so there is a feeling of exclusivity to it.
  • As far as making a quest memorable, I think that there should be a great deal of effort involved in completing it and have a valuable reward to match that effort. Something like the old relic weapon quest lines from Final Fantasy 14 that take days or weeks to finish and leave you with a really cool looking weapon as proof of your accomplishment. As an additional note: please look into the "Exploratory Mission" system in FF14 for exactly what NOT to do.

    It's not necessarily a "raid," but one thing I'll never forget is the process of running dungeons in WoW before party finder was added. Having to cobble together a handful of people over the course of 45 minutes or more just to run the dungeon seems dreadful on the surface, but every friend I had ever met on that game came through waiting inordinate amounts of time together and chatting about whatever to pass the time. Not to mention that there was an incentive to remember the people you grouped with before so that you might be able to group up again down the line. To me, that type of content is what makes or breaks an MMO community.

    On the other side of the coin, there's nothing worse than low-effort filler content. If i had the choice to play a small game with quality content or a huge game with "meh" content, I'd pick the small one every time. To me, there's nothing worse than pointless content.
  • kairukairu Member
    Quests that require a party are what makes it memorable to me. If you look at Final Fantasy XI everything basically required a party or someone to help with a quest boss/invisible/sneak. ffxi is still going strong after many many years. I still play it time to time on a private server to craft and make gil. Make quests/leveling hard to make it require people to play together. I play MMORPGs to play and interact with other people not to play solo throughout the whole game. I dont like being the slave, having to run around and fetch an item or kill 10 mobs.
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