Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content

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  • Epy00Epy00 Member
    One of the most memorable things in an MMO for me was the stable system/horse training/breeding that Black Desert Online had. That in addition to the immersion of having people travel on the roads
  • Some of my most memorable quest lines have been where decisions couldn't be taken back. A bad memory for me was when I was forced to "embrace evil" as my only choice to continue onto the next phase of character development (I quit the game shortly after). So, when a quest culminates to a false choice or no choice, I get frustrated with the game as a whole. A good memory for me was when the game landscape changed after defeating the villain, flowers bloomed and what not. So, my memories regarding irreversible actions are hit and miss--but always stress inducing.

    Community events and festivals always bring me joy. I remember an event in GW2 where the community all morphed into cute creatures (quagans) and marched around the main town. It was pointless, but fun and memorable.
  • The stronger the emotions the event invokes, the more memorable the occasion.
    Some emotions evoke stronger memories than others.
    Voluntary genuine sacrifice, probably generates a mix of emotions that are strongest of all.
    Especially where being selfish is the norm or perhaps expected.
    Perhaps it is the shock of not experiencing the mundane, but living through the unexpected.
    You would remember when things went ridiculously wrong.
    You would remember when things went outrageously right.
    You would probably forget anything between as just....normal & get lost in the noise of the norm.
    You would have to remember the things that were beneficial and the things that ended up detrimental as a basic survival instinct.
    Those actions that lead to relatively neutral response will probably be forgotten as a waste of memory space.

    Unique occasions are also memorable.
    How else would you sort the wheat from the chaff ?
    They would just become the same mundane event just like any other day.
    Which is where player influenced content is so important.
    Human influence can take the story in a whole host of unique directions.
    So you get a plethora of variation where nothing is really predictable as humans will adapt gameplay.
    Monotony and boredom come from doing the same over and over again and getting exactly as expected.

    On boss fights, they need to have a selection of attack and defence vectors at their disposal that they may or may not use. Which means they need to be triggered by the adversaries or the time/environment in which they exist. Experts will understand them 'more' over time. To me, if the party has planned their group effectively and each member is good at their job, they should be able to expect the unexpected and survive, as they have the tools to do so. Doesnt guarantee they will deploy them at the right time, in the right place, against the right adversary.

    Interesting question though.
  • Quests: I like quests that carry through a full story arc. I think SWTOR did this especially well by building the story around your class and giving you multiple paths and decisions throughout the game. Most quests in MMOs I don't remember or just see as a grind between RPing because they are just fetch/find/escort without context or with poor context just to have the quests in. Zone quests where the whole zone carries a decent story also interest me for open world quests..

    Raids and Dungeons: Make interesting boss mechanics and add non-fight encounters into dungeon and raids especially if there are some puzzles or areas that are more about timing and environment over fighting trash mobs.

    I'm sure there will be the usual "get x item" or "collect number of x" and the typical "out damage" or "out heal" mechanics for quests and dungeons, but adding some of those little extra stuff to surprise the players is key.
  • I spent the majority of my time in worlds exploring when I did quests the ones that I enjoyed were those that took a while. At the time they were rather annoying and I didn't enjoy it too much, but I was enthralled because of the loot (this was when I was between the ages of 9-12) and wanting to overcome. When things became too difficult or I lost a sense of direction that was when I when I quit.

    As far as Dungeons and raids go, there has been only a few dungeons that I enjoyed and that was when I knew nothing about the dungeon or raid. Having to figure things out and work on the fly I enjoyed. Once the community figure how its done the battles just become robotic and those that have not figured it out have the fun ruined.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Explorer
    In Asheron's Call I did a lot of trading. At first it was just all I could do because I was on my brother's acct and there was no point in leveling, so I would take my level 1 Bob the Camel to the Mosswart Fort near Hebian-to and pick up bags of loot that the adventurers left behind.

    In time, after I got my own account, I was able to get a mule down to the Subway, which was generally full of over traders over-encumbered by their wares.

    There was a tumultuous time, that I vaguely recall, that had to do with a Virindi alliance with the Shadows. The agent of this dark matter was a particular Shadow by the name of Martine. Martine was GM controlled and would make appearances around Dereth and sow mayhem.

    One day whilst I was bartering and selling along with the other traders down in the blue glow of the many portals in the Subway, a new portal opened among the throng. No one paid it any mind as any mage worth his salt could muster a portal to far off places.
    But this portal was different, as the echoes of panicked screams and blood stained stones would sorrowfully recount, could they talk.

    From the swirling blur horizon of the portal poured Martine and a phalanx of elite Virindi. The goods-laden merchants and unwary customers were easy prey for the sickle wielding Virindi.
    I watched in frozen silence from one of the many halls that lead from the main room as Martine targeted the non-martial traders and mules. They seemed to run in beat with my terror-clenched heart, as Martine's blackened sword flashed out, again and again.

  • zeyjizeyji Member
    Quests

    I have played a lot of different MMOs with very different leveling experiences. As I am a hardcore player, leveling is usually a necessary evil to me as most MMOs give you the feeling that the "real" content starts at max level. But I actually wish that this was different. The two MMOs I had the most fun with leveling were SWTOR and GW2. GW2 because it felt very organic, exploring the world, working together with others to complete your quests. The most memorable quests by far had SWTOR. To me it is really important that a MMO provides the player with a feeling of meaning and consequence. The problem I have with WoW leveling or the open world content (which I did the most) is that it feels completely without any consequences. You kill something, it will still be there with the next respawn. In SWTOR you had to make choices which often resulted in something that at least felt permanent or resulted in something permanent. When reaching max level I want to feel as if I left a mark on my way there, when I get back to old places where I fought with level 10 I want to see the fisherman that I helped in a better state, I want the bandits that I helped to get rid of gone and I want someone that I refused to help to be dead or angry at me for not helping. Any quest can be great, no matter how big it is. I just has to mean something

    Raids

    I won't name specific bosses but overall what made a boss fight great was always a good mixture of 1) The boss had a great backstory which really want to make me kill him. Bosses that are just there to be killed are not memorable 2) Difficulty: The boss must feel hard but possible to kill. Bosses that died around the 100-150 wipes mark always stayed in my mind. It is also great, when the boss doesn't have those "one of you fails, everyone dies" mechanics. It should always be difficult and not just a one-shot mechanic with the rest of the fight being dull. 3) Mechanics: Interesting and new mechanics (naming the current Mekkatorque Mythic for WoW players for instance) are always great. However it is understandable that this can't be in every boss fight. 4) First experience/Uniqueness: To me it was always a bit sad that the same boss was available in different difficulties. I know that this results in more effort but a boss that is really hard and can only be killed in that one hard difficulty will be memorable for sure. Not many will know this but in the book "Epic" by Conor Kostick (about a MMO) there is that one legendary dragon that is super hard to kill and can only be killed once as it is a permanent creature in the world. This fight was only described in the book, I never did it myself of course but I still remember it. This is the pinnacle of a raid boss.
  • r41d3nzr41d3nz Member
    My favorite MMO to this day is Final Fantasy XI......Doing sky runs and dynamis while hoping for a certain drop just to fight 5 others of the same class for it. basically harsh boss fights and RNG......likewise, token systems like what they do in FFXIV make the content a boring grind and should be avoided.
  • valentinesvalentines Member, Pioneer
    I used to log my rogue out in Orgrimar and spent a lot of time ganking horde and seeing if I could get away with it. Everyone loved me for it because it made things much more interesting and it was so much fun for me too!!
  • rohkairohkai Member, Braver of Worlds
    Something that I truly enjoyed from DDO were the giant room sized puzzles
  • kthulukthulu Member
    The time a raid made the biggest impact on me was when I felt like my class had something unique and challenging. The best that comes to mind was surrender to madness from shadow priests in the beginning of legion. It made you have a great rewarding feeling for mastery over your class, and a clear consequence when you were trying to over reach.

    The best quests that I remember are the ones that had a memorable reward or funny exchange. The typical go get this or go kill this quest get boring, unless you add interesting dialog. I'll never forget the quest chain in the undead "starting area" where an orc bragged about having a weakness for tauren women. I laughed so hard the first time, and always went back to it. I think the immense reward system shouldn't be as common or more difficult, to give the player a greater sense of achievement. If everyone has it, no one really cares about it.
  • DatFaceDatFace Member
    Another good MMO for me was Revelations Online, a free but sadly p2w game that made everyone leave in a short period of time.

    Its PvE system along with the PvP was extremely addictive, smooth gamestyle that allows the player to do almost everything he wants but the lack of players and the struggle to advance among with the p2w system its a big no no but i had some good times tbh.

    AoC has everything an MMO player wants, it combines everything and im so hyped and curious on how are they going to balance all this stuff that they implemented, i expect one of the best launches on the MMO history (fingers crossed)

    Kind regards.

    2nru3c.png
  • In my opinion, based on previous experience, I believe an interesting storyline and challenge of some sort can make a memorable quest. One raid that I could not forget about was from the MMO shooter: Destiny 2. This was a raid that I cannot forget about because of the challenging puzzles we had to face and the countless hours we had put in just to get a single puzzle done. These puzzles required excellent communication and coordination and the feeling that you got from completing them was the most satisfying I've felt in any game out there.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds
    Early on Rift added a quest chain that was water based. Took a group at points a dungeon or 2. Get some gears but at the end you get a Crocolisk mount. Still use it as my main mount. Was a long chain and took several days when it was first put in.
    Loved the Kharazan raid in WOW. So many different fights and mechanics was good fun.
    Played WoW on a PvP server nothing like questing and running into the same enemies over and over all over the map. Killing a mob and getting jumped or jumping someone else in a scramble to live was great fun.
    Secret world had some good zone quest/story lines as well.
    One of my favorite memories was open world PvP tho. Flying it Tarren Mill and seeing a raid of Allies moving around knowing your gonna die soon as you land. Log out and grab a max level toon ride out with a group and big open world battles for next 4 hours. Nothing to gain but pure fun fighting to defend a small town on the edge of nothing.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • There is a great quest chain in LOTRO beginning in the main story (Epic) quests Vol 1 Book 6 and concluding in Book 10 where you aid the Dunedain against the forces of Angmar, defeat Mordirith the steward of Angmar, discover the dark past of a character Sara Oakheart who once also ruled Angmar and is trying to return to power, and after tragic losses finally defeat Mordirith once more.

    The resolution to a story of an estranged father and daughter resonated deeply with me and due to the pacing of the story, the ending left a very strong impression.

    Great quests have stories that while simple on the outside, can grow more complex as more information is discovered.

  • Grouping effectively ---I think no matter where different players are on their quest algorithm, if you group up with someone you should see and hear and experience the quest with everyone in the group....Elder Scrolls DOES NOT do this at all one of my worst gripes with that MMO. Make even basic quests a family affair no matter if the other players in the group have done this before or not.
  • shadowvenshadowven Member, Settler
    edited April 29
    What makes a quest memorable?
    For me, to have a quest stand out and be enjoyable , it must contain:
    * Text that is easy to read and has some attractiveness (similar to how FFXIV presents Text), rather than having a boring box with a bunch of text. Something that catches my attention in a fun non-obtrusive way.

    *if the quest is a side quest, at least have a few others (like at least 3) that are related to it - somewhat of a mini in depth story to feel some sort of satisfaction for doing it.

    *Definitely Cut scenes that incorporate my character are important for Quests - This Makes me as a player to really feel the characters part in the world and captures me into the story.


    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    A few things come to mind. First, the Visual introduction of the entrance or the ability of how to enter the Raid is huge to me. I love to see amazing environmentals & fantasy structures with moving parts as an entrance to the raid areas. Have puzzling entrances to give it a bit more sense of secrecy and adventure. Raids that have multiple bosses with various complex mechanics are very memorable for me. Strategizing with the Guild or Random Raid Group incorporates communication and reliant upon other classes. Both of these made raids very memorable for me. Once the Raid is cleansed/completed - The appearance may change on the outside..
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  • akabearakabear Member, Pioneer
    What makes a quest memorable?

    Some of the most memorable quests in recent times have come from such rpg`s as The Witcher and Kingdom Come Deliverance. In these RPG`s the choice was not black and white, right nor wrong and the direction of the story thereafter mattered and changed as a result of choice. This is what made the quests memorable.

    If somehow the quests could made to not be formula driven so that the community can determine the best path by collaboration but that the choices are unique

    L2`s Baium was memorable in that it was fought over to attend and not a given to pass in the earlier days of the game made it memorable.

    Dragon Age Inquision`s quest paths influenced by the party makeup made each play through different.




  • vanqorvanqor Member
    There are already a lot of spesific suggestions here, so I would like to offer some high level ones for the questing.

    The most important goal of the questing in my opinion is to avoid the mechanical, brainless "follow the quest markers on the minimap"-mentality most MMOs have, where quests are mostly just a necessary TODO list while levelling rather than memorable experiences. Some ideas on how to achieve that:

    1) Quality over quantity.
    Create quests with the focus of creating memorable moments and expand upon lore, not as a main mechanism for levelling.
    This is imo the most important one. The more quests you have to produce, the less creativity they will contain, and no matter the quality, players will quickly start to notice the pattern in them - and get bored. I would much rather prefer a handful of quality quests and grinding lots of Tasks to during a level, than grinding mediocre quality quests where I am just ignoring the quest text anyway (and probably missing the good ones).

    2) Limit quest hubs
    Try to avoid quest hubs. Going to a place and gathering 10 quests is a bad and outdated game design (imo), and disconnects the player from the quests and their story.

    3) Reward
    In general, quests should provide good experience and rewards, but should not be considered necessary or mandatory to level efficiently or gain items.

    4) A living world
    Spread out quests, events and other dynamic happenings. I would love to stumble upon quests and other events, large or small, while exploring your world, so it feels alive and exciting.

    5) Multiplayer friendly
    Make quests multiplayer, ie. possible to do with friends. DUH. But so many MMOs try to marry single player questing with multiplayer MMO, with a bad result.

    6) I am not the "chosen one"
    I know this i subjective, but to me, nothing breaks immersion more than the cliché "You have saved the world! You are the ultimate hero!" in an MMO. Please write quests where we are part of something bigger.
  • scprototypescprototype Member, Pioneer
    edited April 30
    For me a great quest tells a story, and makes the player do various things that ARE RELEVANT to said story. Also, don't always contain the quest within one area, I love if a quest makes me travel all around the world. Runescape is the perfect example of this for me.

    Their quest system is set up in a way that all quests are part of a questline. Each individual quest in that questline has certain prerequisites that you need to meet before you can start the quest.
    The first quest of each questline is usually a very mundane task, like sheering sheep, getting some random item, etc. The further you progress into a questline, the more complex the actions you need to do become, and they are always a direct consequence to what you did in previous quests. Some later Runescape quests can take a player more than 2 hours to complete if they don't use online guides or help from others. These quests will require the player to do stuff like 'Collect materials to make a magic totem to turn yourself into a monkey, and infiltrate the monkey prison to free the missing military gnome squad.', which would only be 1 out of 10 steps for that single quest. The player will have to travel all around the world to complete these quests, making them feel like an actual adventure.

    What also helps their system are the previously mentioned prerequisites for the quests. This makes it so that a player is forced to wait to continue the story. Whilst this may sound annoying, it truly helps to build up excitement for the quest, and makes it so that players won't skip through dialogue to quickly get on to the next quest.

    Unique rewards are also appreciated. Most MMO's will just give the player some random piece of equipment or cosmetic. Runescape quests will give you access to various ways of travelling around the world faster or unique items like a backpack that automatically picks up arrows, or even access to new areas of the world.

    I guess I just really like Runescape's quest system :)
  • LieutenantToastLieutenantToast Administrator, Moderator, Staff
    Hiya all - thank you SO MUCH for sharing your detailed thoughts on memorable content! Some of these stories are like a walk down memory lane, the nostalgia bombs are so real <3

    I've gathered up the feedback you all provided here on the forums as well as on Facebook and Twitter and shared it with our team! Our next Dev Discussion about Solo Gameplay is now live, so be sure to join us with your thoughts on the new topic here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/42345/dev-discussion-2-solo-gameplay
  • Hiya all - thank you SO MUCH for sharing your detailed thoughts on memorable content! Some of these stories are like a walk down memory lane, the nostalgia bombs are so real <3

    I've gathered up the feedback you all provided here on the forums as well as on Facebook and Twitter and shared it with our team! Our next Dev Discussion about Solo Gameplay is now live, so be sure to join us with your thoughts on the new topic here: https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/42345/dev-discussion-2-solo-gameplay

    Thanks Toast! <3
    Poko.png
  • lusiphurlusiphur Member
    In city of heroes as soon as you got to Atlas city you would group with 7 other newbies and go into the sewers. If nobody died all the way through, you'd enter a level 2 or 3 and come out level 10 and with a bunch of new friends.
  • tiberioustiberious Member
    One of my first and longest memories in MMOs was back when Wow was in vanilla and I ran a dungeon called Zul Farak. There is a point where you stand on top of a temple and free these prisoners. Then a bunch of enemies spawn at the base of the temple and attack in waves and you have to defend yourself and the prisoners. I remember it was hard as hell, but when we cleared the last wave and survived all ragged and beat up, man it was awesome.
  • jentarajentara Member, Braver of Worlds
    Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content
    What makes a quest memorable? Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    The feeling that we were doing it for the first time..even if we weren't.

    My group went on a quest one time, in a game I will not EQuate here. We were wandering in the woods looking for the next step and my friend says..."Hey Jentara, look up!" I scroll my view up and realize that I'm standing at the foot of a large giant. "HOLY SH!%, RUN, I yell as we all flee the area"

    I became famous with my friends for saying "Hey, what's that over there..." Loading please wait (as I died for being stupid)

    Was the content new...it was to us even though many had already gone through it. It is that feeling of doing something new, something no one else has done. I wish there was a way to block all content spoilers from the Internet.

    To make something memorable, it needs to be your memory that experiences it and that retains it...not a spoiler on a web page or a sparkly trail that you follow that leads you to the next step.
  • auraticusauraticus Member
    Exploring long sought or even unsought and unknown territories. The journey and the difficulties encountered upon arriving at your destination. The conversations you and your friends can have. The aesthetic and marvel that hopefully becomes of Ashes of Creation that has more than meets the eyes in a mechanical nature. I think you can have a lot of fun and shared memories with people you may have never known hadn't it been for this Ashes of Creation in the first place. That I think would be a memorable thing.

    I guess I'm just one of those "it's about the journey" guys.
  • georgeblackgeorgeblack Member
    edited May 23
    My most memorable questing was in Line][Age

    In the begining I loved spending time doing the class selection quests.
    A human fighter at lv20 could become a warrior by doing a quest
    A human warrior at 40 could become a warlord or a gladiator by completing 3 quests.

    At 76 the gladiator could becone a duelist with the help of the guild because it was s tough and lengthy quest.

    A duelist could gain a nobility title like all other 76lv classes. Another lengthy quest that required the help of the guild.
    Noblese could unlock a second lv40 class on the same character, maintain buffs upon death and patticipate in 1v1 monthly tournaments. The best noblese of each class became a hero for a month with unique abilities and hero weapons.


    There were other memorable quests related to big rewards of materials and gear crafting recipes or guild quests that would increase guild member slots, guild passives, right to siege or claim guild hall.



    In every mmorpg since Line][Age, I feel like the quests they offer are 1/1000 of how meaninglful it felt selecting and completing a quest in Line][Age
  • bosanovabosanova Member, Braver of Worlds
    My most memorable and enjoyable moment while questing/exploring was in Conan Exiles. Their questing system involved giving you a large goal to achieve, like finding a relic or slaying a difficult creature, not a monotonous go collect/kill and arbitrary number of items/creatures. Along the path to that over arching goal in Conan I found myself killing and collecting those items on my own because i wanted more items from slaying creatures. The game wasn't telling me to grind collection/kill quests for xp, I chose to do it and it felt very fluid and rewarding. This way of questing also encouraged me to explore much more then I ever did in other games like it. The quest gave hints to the area but didn't hold my hand all the way to the objective.

    A second very memorable moment, playing the same game, was exploring one of the early dungeons. We had to solve a puzzle just to open the entrance and once inside it wasn't just all about grinding through packs and packs of mobs. We had to solve multiple puzzles just to progress which felt so rewarding once we finally did.
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