We are happy to announce that starting August 20, 2019 at 11:00 AM PDT the Divine Gateways will open once more for limited Apocalypse testing sessions! For more information, check out our FAQ here: https://ashesofcreation.com/news/2019-08-14-steam-announce-and-play-test-faq-for-ashes-of-creation-apocalypse

Dev Discussion #1 - Memorable Content

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  • Guild Wars 1 was my first MMO. Running that first dungeon and then finding out that the game actually takes place post apocalypse was incredible.
    On his one hand he wore rings of stone,
    iron, amber, wood and bone.
  • XaqXaq Member
    edited April 20
    I personally love the main story quest when it gives you a cutscene of lore history, like watching a battle in the past (and maybe even playing in it as one of the heroes).

    I also love when an NPC appears in more than one quest, which could build a relationship with the player. Those specific NPC’s are memorable because of repetition and familiarity, it’s what makes a great ally or enemy and makes them active.

    Like people have said before, quests that let you do things not in the normal bounds of the game. Letting you play as a monster is definitely memorable, perhaps for seeing the quest in their point of view. Assaulting/raiding an in-flight dragon or airship. Piloting a large ship that cannot be obtained in-game. Being tasked with difficult decisions that have different consequences and benefits. Joining an instaced location with different weather and atmospheric effects.

    I love quests that have lore and purpose, aside from the generic “kill 10 goblins and return their ears for potion ingredients”
    Make it like “The goblins raided our village and kidnapped some of our people. My daughter was one of them and the thought of her frightened with the others is dreadful, please bring her home to us along with the others missing from this village.”

    I want to be a hero, not a errand runner to do chores.

    Also, don’t be afraid of making questlines that are solely sidequests. A sidequest doesn’t need to be a single standalone quest, it can definitely be a chain of quests, which could help develope a memorable and positive experience.

    Quests that bring you into a dreamworld are also memorable, I remember there was a quest in Fable where you obtained a cursed snowglobe and upon looking at the item in your inventory you are sucked inside it, and you must uncover the mystery in order to escape.
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  • GABOSERGABOSER Member
    me gustaria que implementaran en el juego una faccion de caza/captura de animales que literalmente cierto animal tuviera su zona y lo tengas que atraer con carnada o con una llamada de apariamiento pero en el momento que muchos jugadores cazen una gran cantidad de estos animales ya su caza sea prohidida de tal manera que solo se capturarian para la "conservacion", pero claro hay jugadores que los podrian matar y sacar beneficios por sus materiales en algun tipo de mercado ilegal, y que cada animal tuviera ciertas variaciones que determinan un tipo de rareza, las recompensas que podrian dar hacer este tipo de tareas podrian ser que si capturas cierta cantidad de cierto animal te puedas llevar ese animal como una mascota (claro,si pretendian poner mascotas).

    siento que seria un tipo de mision que no aburriria a muchos,y aportaria a un toque a ese sentimiento de cambio en el ambiente.
    otra mecanica que se podria implementar podria ser que al tratar de atraer un animal en especifico puede ser que atraigas a cierto depredador que de igual manera lo puedas matar o capturar pero con alguna otra mecanica.
    algunos jugadores solo buscan distraese, esto seria como una actividad como la pesca, algo que hacer en los tiempos libres dentro del juego

    I speak Spanish and this is a Google translation
    I would like to implement in the game a faction of hunting / capture of animals that literally an animal had its area / habitat and you have to attract it with bait or with a call of apariamiento but at the moment that many players chase a lot of these animals and their hunting is prohidida in such a way that only capture for "conservation", but of course there are players who could kill and take profits for their materials in some kind of illegal market, and that each animal had variations that determine a type of rarity, like albino animals, the rewards that could give to do this type of tasks could be that if you capture a certain amount of certain animal you can take that animal as a pet (of course, if they pretended to put pets).

    I feel it would be a kind of mission that would not bore many, and would contribute a touch to that feeling of change in the environment.
    Another mechanic that could be implemented could be that when trying to attract an animal in specific it may be that you attract a certain predator that you can kill or capture in the same way but with some other mechanics.
    some players just want to get distracted, this would be like an activity like fishing, something to do in the free times within the game
  • VarkunVarkun Member, Braver of Worlds
    Guild Wars 1 was my first MMO. Running that first dungeon and then finding out that the game actually takes place post apocalypse was incredible.

    That was a pretty cool twist to the whole setting.
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    Close your eyes spread your arms and always trust your cape.
  • Did you guys ever play Dwarf Fortress?
    If not, this video summarises it pretty good.

    We need more of such things in our lifes in my opinion!
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  • TommiTommi Member
    I've played MMOs all my life and the most memorable questing experiences have to be from RuneScape where a lot of major content is locked behind difficult quest chains, which have different levels of skilling requirements themselves. One of the most memorable chains took me deep into the caves of a mountain range and in the end I unlocked the elven realm on the other side. I had had my eye on that area on the world map for a long time and finally unlocking it felt legendary.

    As for the raid, there's only one possible answer for me: The Icecrown Citadel in World of Warcraft. It was the final major raid of the expansion and you got to face one of the most iconic characters in Warcraft lore, Arthas, the Lich King. The hype for the raid was beautifully built up throughout the expansion as you could run into Arthas in quest chains and in lower level dungeons. The raid itself had a great design as well, with Arthas waiting for you at the top of the enormous tower.
  • Greetings. Awesome initiative to ask people to share their moments. Hopefully that will give you ideas on how to maximize the experience with this MMO.

    I am an old timer in age and in gaming. My first MMO was as for the most World of Warcraft. I have played many other MMO's but usually first experience lasts in your mind. One moment that actually consisted many elements was the quest "Gates of Ahn'Qiraj". It was a world quest where the two factions had to compete to each other as in a race to open up new raid and dungeon content. It was a long term quest and you really felt that each one of us made an effort in the wider picture. Of course we all wanted the see the new content in an area called Silithus.
    After many days one faction "won" and the guild who made the biggest effort (not sure about that one) got a quest to get a key to open it all up (worldwise). The excitement was over the roof and Blizzard didnt really expect this so when all characters gathered up at the location to see it all the servers couldnt handle it and numerous crashes. However everyone had fun anyway and eventually we could see the new Gates with raids.
    To even spice things up the have added one of my favorite bosses in there called C'Thun.
    If you guys can bring something similar that would really make things for me.
    Sidenote is that I do feel the graphics so far in Ashes to be little too "cartoonish" but I cheer for you guys and hope this game will be a landmark in gaming industry.
  • grisugrisu Member
    Something else that stuck with me are some kill-gather quests.
    "Fetch me some troll ears" 0/10
    Magically EVERY SINGLE TROLL YOU ENCOUNTER, has no ears and you slaugther the entire troll population on the entire planet to get.. 10...ears......Just tell me to slaugther 1000 trolls if you make the droprate this miserable or tell me to find "that specifica identification earring of high ranking trolls".

    Another target for oribtal nuking.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. Grisu
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • - What makes a quest memorable ?
    For me a memorable quest would be like a small adventure with several steps that leads you to a relatively good reward, and is structured like a story, eventually with NPCs helping you or putting you in weird/funny situations.
    - Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget?
    Yes, in 2014 while I was playing WoW, there was an event for the 10th anniversary of the game where you could go back to a raid called the Molten Core which is an emblematic raid of vanilla where you had to play in a group of 40 people. When we arrived in the raid nobody knew how to do it and people kept getting one shot by the trash mobs because of bad agro management, so nearly everybody abandoned.
    I stayed and waited for other people to come in until we reach 40 players. Turns out that I knew the strat for this specific raid and I was the only one among 40 people so.. I ended up raid leading the whole night by writing the strat before each bosses and it took us like 3 hours to finish it but we succeeded. A good half of the group thanked me personally and that was the first time i got that much recognition in a game. Good times.
  • vythicvythic Member, Pioneer
    What makes a quest memorable?
    For quests, it's not about the rewards - it's about how many people you needed to bring together to accomplish a task. I remember all of the elite quests in WoW because I met quite a few friends due to the necessity to rely on teamwork. Comedy is always a solid touch and will make any quest memorable. But most of all the amount of innovation and soul poured into the quest will shine through: if the creator loved making it, chances are the player will love completing it.

    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    Teamkill mechanics always make a raid boss unforgettable, for better or worse. Please give me the opportunity to get my guildmates killed by friendly fire!
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  • trta90trta90 Member, Explorer
    In WoW i played shaman and quests for geting totems are realy great concept- it would be nice to inplement something like that..Also long chain quests that build nice side stories and alot of lore info are way to go ( last quest need group to complete and give some kind of cool reward)
  • svartiesvartie Member
    Rhok'Delar and Lok'Delar questline for hunters in Vanilla WoW:
    This was a great questline, it started from an item in a raid and sent you out on a quest chain where you had to know your class, dealing with fights that were specifically made to challange you but be overcomable if you knew what you were doing as a Hunter, and at the end you got an awesome Bow and Staff.


    Nessingwary Camp quests in Vanilla WoW:
    These quests themselves were nothing special,. it is a bunch of "kill x amount of y" that then ended with killing an elite mob. But what made this so memorable to me is the area and reward. You got some pretty amazing gear for the level of this quest and the zone which this quest happened was many peoples first taste of PvP, being a contested zone with loads of fighting and competition for mobs.


    Paladin/Warlock mount quest, again in Vanilla WoW:
    Unlike other classes in WoW, the Paladin and Warlock had special questlines for the aquesition of their epic mounts. These quests were not the easiest and expensive, being tailored to the classes themselves. What makes this memorable to me is that the reward is intrinsic. It isn't gear or outright power, but something very flavourfull to your class.


    So if I had to make a conclusion about these three and what made them memorable, it would be the combination a good challenge, a good reward, and a memorable experience (STV PvP wasn't always the most fun of times, but I sure do remember it).
  • lunarskylunarsky Member, Braver of Worlds
    FFXI: Gods - Having to go and skill the 4 gods to unlock the Kirin fight.
    Artifact Armor Quest - Collecting items and going around the world to places you may not have normally gone to complete encounters/cutscenes etc to unlock your class defining armor was a great experience and worked across level 50-60 so it was extending across multiple levels

    WoW: Weapon quests (ex: Priest's Benediction/Anathema) - These for me were really fun. I liked going around the world and getting random drops to start them, running dungeons etc, the unique look of the weapon. I sincerely hope ashes has a good deal of these from mid-high levels.

    Raids: AQ40, Naxx, Karazhan, Onyxia, Blackwing Lair etc

    I think the key parts that make content memorable for me is the combination of strong lore aspects (cutscenes, deep quest text/voice overs), item hunting (lucky drop or hidden in rare place), and being forced to travel the world especially to difficult to reach places or uncommonly used areas. Epic fights at the end are of course needed.

    I feel like Intrepid is going to implement some epic weapon/armor quest lines ala Everquest so I'm happy to hear that. For raids, I just want interesting fight mechanics and amazing visuals.
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  • altodoraltodor Member, Leader of Men
    Doing crazy things that a sanbox mmo allows you to do is the best. Archeage let me plant 2000 mushrooms in the wild with some buddies and defend it. 3 hours of planting and a three hour growing time. Was so goddamn fun. The random social parts of doing quests is great too. I remember asking people in WoW to help me out with a quest or a dungeon when i was 12. The archeage tutor and mentor quests stuck with me a lot too. Met a lot of people and made a lot of jokes.
  • altodoraltodor Member, Leader of Men
    Quests in WoW were great when I just leveled through the entire world and didnt really know where I was going. When questing became optimized it became a chore and I only cared about endgame content. Quests that let me explore hidden areas are awesome and kept me going
  • westergardwestergard Member, Braver of Worlds
    Quests become memorable because of the feelings they invoke, their unique rewards, the places or activities they unlock by completion or the changes they cause in the overworld.

    Very rarely are quests memorable because of the things you did during them as they always can be brought down to collect/kill/talk/interact/go to/drive/give types of tasks. Their story (yes I read them) is the most important part for me.

    Quests that left a lasting impression on me were:
    1. In WoW there is a quest on an island in the draenei starting zone, a night elf family has been assaulted by crazed moonkin and the wife and daughter are missing. You find the husband/father staring into the distance sitting on the pier a short distance from his ruined house. During the quest(s) you recover his wifes remains and find his daughter, leading her back to him. The quest finishes with both night elves standing on the pier, thanking you and naming you a friend of the family.

    2. In Ashenvale there's a male night elf who is caring for his infant daughter who has fallen ill amid a period of conflict with the Horde. During the quest you find and try several forms of healing ending with the recovery of a pearl of elune. The child can't be healed. The quest is memorable because it shows that we can't right all the wrongs in the world even though we work very hard to make it so.

    3. In Wildstar you regularly help Drusera (for all intents and purposes, a god) and she confides in you during one quest that despite of her power and near omnipotence, she feels scared, alone and doesn't know what to do in order to defeat the threats that loom over the planet Nexus.

    4. The Suramar questline in Legion (WoW) was incredible because you come to care for the plight of the NPCs you are helping. You deal with their addiction, natural / external / internal threats. You disable enemy supply lines, feed and aid those in need and during all these things you steadily unlock teleportation beacons, shortcuts, portals and more. Voice acting was amazing. Both diagonal and horizontal exploration. The quest area is not simply a place with trees and wolves and npc that are higher level than you but apparantly too lazy to go club a bear but it becomes an actual place in your mind.

    5. In Allods online players can unlock their own personal ship for expeditions in the Astral. The quest itself is boring and uninteresting but the reward offers incredible freedom and unlocks an entirely new activity within the game by allowing you to explore their version of space to find dungeons, loot and pvp battles with the opposing faction.

    6. In the Witcher 3 there's several quests that are very good. Here's two examples.
    One quest deals with a fellow Witcher hunting a man for killing one of his friends. During the quest you travel across the world and find out what happened and how/why. Finally you find the target who is a changed man, he gives alms to the poor, loves his adopted family and works as a merchant. He asks you if a man cannot change his nature leaving you the choice of killing him or leaving him be.

    Another quest deals with a village that has been slaughtered to the last man leaving only a little girl alive. Another Witcher was slighted by the villagers as they didn't want to pay him their agreed fee for slaying a monster. When he demanded payment they struck him in the back with a pitchfork. You find the murderous Witcher and can either decide to kill him for his actions or let him go.

    Choice and feelings are important to make a quest memorable.

  • WoW Classic Class Quests.
    Examples:
    Warrior Quest for the Whirlwind Axe, and the Berserker Stance
    Warlock Quest for the Doomguard (You needed around 4-5 Warlocks and ONE always died as a sacrifice xD)
    Paladin/Warlock lvl 60 Mountquest

    Special Weapon Quests:
    Rok'Dehlar Questline was epic
    Benediction was fantastic
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  • I come an EverQuest 2 background. From those days I mostly remember the raids that took team work to complete. The funnest raids that I remember were the ones that took effort from everyone in the raid.

    An example of this would be a raid where we all dropped into a cave, where we found a huge resting snake. Upon attacking the snake we would periodically be hit with a curse that would effect only a few of our raid members at a time. These individuals hit with a curse were the only ones that could attack approaching mummies from 3 different tunnels. If those mummies reached the snake, it was an instant raid wipe. While this sound difficult in itself, it became even harder when one of the individuals cursed was your main tank, which either left you requiring a backup tank to pickup the snake, or leaving you with only 2 players to take out the 3 mummies.

    This took a strong effort from everyone in the raid to complete, and took my guild weeks to finally win this raid. I remember this forcing me to train and learn more about my character class to increase my DPS as a healer to fulfill my part in the raid should the need arise.

    Raids like this, quests that were a challenge and actually meant something, the need for you to learn your class and play it well are the things that I remember most
  • szoloszolo Member, Founder
    edited April 20
    In my opinion any quest or quest-chain with at least 2-3 weeks of completion-time gets memorable, if it truly and largely affects the enviroment or the story-arc. Looking at the question from another direction: no quest or quest-chain has the potetial of becoming memorable if there is nothing to remind you later of your accomplishment.

    Outside of quests other memorable contents I can think and remember of are the strictly limited chances of acquiring certain rewards. Be it a gear, a mount, a class-skill, a crafting-recipe, anything that can distinguish your character from others, which brings us back to the previous statement: during the gameplay you must be (distunguished) reminded from time to time of your past accomplishment somehow, so you can remember with joy and proudness of the time when you completed that quest.
    You ride that fine line of like everyone is about to die and you shall keep on casting, keep going, it awesome. Thats the best part of healing.
  • zitruszitrus Member
    edited April 20
    A few of the quests I liked most were about the warlock in Wow Vanilla in order to learn how to summon a demon. I had to read the quest and to figure out where the place to reach was. I lived intensely and liked very much those moments during the voyage, maybe because I had a purpose to travel (I really wanted to summon new demons XD) and there was together a feeling of exploring foreign and unknown lands. Along my path I met and I had to ask players for indications: somebody knew where the place was and others not, but overall the best thing I appreciated was the interaction between me and other people. All of this made that world lively.

    Another event I liked was when I were in Moon Brook, Westfall and players had to work together or watch to each other in order to fight the bandits of the village and to do, eventually, the dungeon Dead Mines.

    Finally for me in a good mmorpg the events, quests, dungeons, raids gotta have a certain difficulty, it is up to the player to valuate the dangers and own possibilities (number of monsters, level of monsters, monster's tactics, combat terrain, own "combat level power" and strategies that can be adopted) and at the end to decide if going alone (Leeroy Jenkins XD), asking for help or giving help.

    In my opinion the more liberty the player has, more the fun there will be.
  • RokoRoko Member, Braver of Worlds
    The more I think about it the more I find that I can't come up with any mechanic during a fight or quest that's memorable.

    Unfortunately the bad things come to mind first. Most games ruined the story by building my character up to be some kind of chosen one, hero or god killer. Just to then send me deliver a message as if I was some messenger, find some lost chicken eggs, or escort some nobody. as if you would send a god killer to do those random errands (Looking at Final fantasy 14). Another example. In Fallout 4 when your character becomes the General of the minutemen but still someone under you in rank sends you to do all the meaningless tasks.

    For me what's good and memorable is good characters in the story; yes, what really stands out throughout the years is not the events themselves within the story but the characters. Every good memory I have from a game, comes from something that a character I either admired, identified with, or really wanted to kill said, did or got done to. I need to care about the characters for anything happening around them to matter to me.
    When you ask me what sticks with me what comes to mind, in the positive side, is names like:
    • Geralt of Rivia - Witcher series
    • Illidan Stormrage - Warcraft 3 & WoW
    • Arthas Menethil - Warcraft 3 & WoW
    • Sylvanas Windrunner - WoW
    • Handsome Jack - Borderlands 2
    • cl4p-tp / Claptrap - Borderlands 1 & 2

    in conclusion. make interesting characters that I can love or hate, and I will get invested into what's happening around them and remember them for years.

    PS: a great villain makes for a better investment than a great hero imo. If I truly hate his/her guts I will go get those eggs if it means I will later get to kick his/her teeth in.
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    It is when we hit our lowest point. That we are open to the Greatest Change.
    -Avatar Aang
  • DaedelusDaedelus Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix
    Hello Intrepid,
    Thanks for this opportunity to provide feedback! Here's mine.

    What makes a quest memorable?
    One of my most memorable quest experiences was the paladin mount quest back in vanilla wow. While there were some parts that were tedious, farming enough materials/gold to buy a particular quest piece, the most fun for me was the point at which I had to clear to a certain area in a dungeon and then perform a ritual. A ritual that involved me using certain of my personal spells/skills to advance - there was a tension in the air of making the right choice, beating the various waves of enemies with my mind as well as my weapon. It was so fun, I remember offering help to anyone that needed it just so I could experience that moment again. What made that quest memorable to me was that it engaged me personally, my mind, my skills, reacting to my actions. I know your development philosophy is centered around player agency and an ever changing world, so I hope this also translates at some level to a personal player experience that drives stories that live for years to come.

    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?
    I know from a technical standpoint it was a bit of a bust, but an event like the opening of AQ in WoW was one that sticks in my mind because it brought entire servers together to do something completely world changing. I hope we can capture this at some level on a server by server basis as different nodes evolve and the server makes choices that forever impact their historical record. This is the impression I get whenever you talk about every server having a completely different story. Really executing this vision alone would make Ashes unforgettable. As far as raids, one of the most memorable for me was Blackwing Lair in vanilla wow - I liked the idea of the different add phases requiring different comps and tactics so that every fight wasn't exactly the same each week. I know you've already spoke about the impact of the world development on the raid content so I know you already have this in mind . Personally, I'd like thought to go hand in hand with the raid content. My preference would be to have a variety of approaches instead of just strict dps fights. DPS should only be one factor in accomplishing a task - keep players engaged instead of tunneling.

    Thanks for listening!

    Wishing you the best,
    Daedelus
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    Daedelus, The Ashen Herald
    Official Ashes of Creation Content Creator
    Website | YouTube | Twitter | Facebook | Twitch
  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 20
    My favorite quest was in EQ2 a Frostfell (Christmas) quest based on A Christmas Carole, it was hilarious and one of the best crafted quests I've ever done.
    Quests that have humor are the ones I like the best.
    On other note, if escort quest at least have them keep up with you.
    Make rewards at level, and worth while, not junk.
    I absolutely love holiday events.
    I like getting house items as rewards sometimes.
    I'm not fond of overly difficult quests, and ones that have you jumping around all over the place. I am not good at twitchy gaming, and probably never will be.
    I like that what I choose to do as an activity helps build a node in Ashes
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    Formerly T-Elf

  • esthonesthon Member, Pioneer
    edited April 20
    Here are my 2 cents:

    What makes a quest memorable?

    For Quest the most important for is the Story, While questing the most memorable things weren't single quest but questchains. The best ones are those who had little twists and understandable motivations behind the questgivers. Extra points for storys that arent black and white and let the players choose what is right to do and let them act accordingly.
    But tbh the quest that i'll never forget is from an mediocre MMORPG. The quests name was "It is male?". Your objective was to bring a goatlike creature viagra to check whitch sex it was. Thats so stupid im still joking around with my friends about this from time to time.

    Are there any raids or events that you'll never forget? What made them unforgettable?

    One of the first MMORPG's i played was Runes of Magic. If you did not fight with your credit card this game was pretty challenging.
    The first big and relevant dungeon was pretty hard. My group hadnt thrown much money into the game (well it didnt matter cause nobody know at that time how to effectly spend money) and it took us four days to get to the first boss of four.
    We had tho chain cc and sleep the right mobs, one mistake and the tank was dead in seconds. We had to manage that dungeon as team. If anyone did not do their part or for example attacked a sleeping mob it was over.
    The bosses had unique mechanics we had to find out first. For example if you cc'ed the first boss to much he would go into rage mode and 2 shot the tank.
    It was fun cause everyone had to exactly do their part in a small Group (6 people). It was the first dungeon to get good gear so there was no gearing up to make it easier.
    It was fun because it was challainging and we knew there were no shortcuts and skill mattered more then gear.
    EA would have said it was the feeling of pride and accomlishment.
    Having a group of 6 not changing members sure helped a lot, it was always fun cause when we fcked up it wasnt as bad then whipping a 40 man raid. We just laughed over it and had fun. Because it was hard it was ok to make mistakes.
    We were the third guild to clear the dungeon on the server. Not saying this to brag about it. Just wanted to point out that while having fun we had quite some success.
    Having fun is the only things that matters, and we had a lot of it in a challenging dungeon that never gave us the impression that skill is less worth then gear.

    Hope that wall of text helps a bit.

    Kind regards Esthon

    Edit: someone stole a word
  • Special/Unique quests for different races and classes would be a really interesting add.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • I really enjoyed the mount breeding in ArcheAge. It was really based on RNG unfortunately but it was a great feeling to finally get a Yata Calf that you could then grow and turn into an adult mount. It required commitment to tending them every morning and getting the placement of the males and females on a 16x16 farm just right but was worth the hassle in the end and made getting a mount more rewarding.
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  • T ElfT Elf Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited April 20
    I like/want quests where the NPCs you interacted with remember you and what you did/do, and build off that with reputation, and more story, and referrals to other NPCs. I want these quests to have meaning/impack in the world.
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    Formerly T-Elf

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    I'm a carebear pacifist . In D&D, I typically max my Charisma in order to use Bluff, Diplomacy, or Intimidation to bypass combat. In my view, MMORPGs are too focused on combat quests - there are not enough quests focused on using other skills, attributes and abilities to complete the objectives.

    One of my favorite quests in WoW is the one where Druids have to cure diseased gazelles. Actually doing something related to my class that doesn't involve combat.

    In my favorite "single-player MMORPG" - Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning - I played a Rogue.
    Probably the most I've ever felt that I was actually a Rogue in any MMORPG. Quests that asked me to steal from NPCs without getting caught had me totally immersed in my role. Same for trying to take out guards or witnesses before they could raise the alarm. Also, the NPC reactions of fear and shunning when I did get caught had considerable impact - being completely ostracized didn't feel good - but, sometimes that would just result in me needing to be even more sneaky to reach the final objectives.
    Even though I prefer to avoid killing stuff, the animations for garroting were quite cinematic and oddly (for me) satisfying. As a player, that's not something I like to do, but... it was very fitting for the role of my character.

    In WoW, the two most memorable quests involved killing 500 Goblins (in Cataclysm, IIRC).
    The first quest, I had to shoot fireballs from a cannon at a contingent of Goblins across a chasm. The Goblins would catch fire and either die on the spot or start running and screaming in pain - some of them would be in so much pain they would jump off the cliff. Highly disturbing to witness for a carebear - compounded by being the perpetrator. I felt a great deal of remorse and I felt filthy for participating - but I also felt compelled to finish the quest.
    The second quest was using a tractor to roll over and squish 500 Goblins. Those Goblins would run from the tractor, screaming in terror. Sometimes, rolling over a Goblin once would not kill them so, I'd have to back over them again until they were sufficiently squished. On my own, I probably would have stopped at 250-300. But, I felt compelled to finish that particular questline, so, I would roll back and forth over the Goblins until I killed every last one to reach 500. It was revolting and I felt vile for doing so, but... it was fascinating that the quests could actually make me feel conflicted and remorseful.
    I'm hoping Ashes can make me feel that level of conflict - resulting in meaningful PvP combat... "I'd really rather not have to kill you but, you are doing xxx and I have to defend yyy, so if you don't stop, I'll have to stop you." Or, "Hey, I have to grab xxx in order to be able to yyy. If you interfere, I'll have to kill you. Sorry."

    Also, as a Druid, I loved the heal Mt. Hyjal questline in WoW. Again, felt like I was truly playing my role.
    Probably still too much killing, but putting an end to the forest fires, and seeing the trees flourish once again, felt highly rewarding from a story perspective.
    Most MMORPGs are focused on players destroying nature and the environment. Quests and objectives that allow players to protect the environment and rebuild nature would also be nice. And could lead to some meaningful, cultural/political character conflicts.
  • deliaszdeliasz Member, Settler
    Steven is coming from Lineage 2 where I started my journey with this genre.
    I do remember how much running from one place to another was on C2-C3 when you have your class advancement. It wasn't only time but also resources. I'm talking about someone who wasn't with any guild.

    To be honest I felt it was too much but also that it was very rewarding.

    I do think quest should introduce us to the mechanics, lore but give us also something to need more information from the game. I like grind quest where I know there is a chance for super rare drop or very neat reward ;)

    Raids from L2 were the coolest. First, you would have to fight through Antharas lair to fight with other guilds to enter. Same things were with Baium on the top of ToI.

    Always changing dynamics of the raid are keeping mind excited :D
    1zdsot1.jpg
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    I normally don't participate in raids - I'm not willing to wait around long enough for the raid to form.

    I typically stealth through dungeons - back in the ancient days of D&D, I would be the one sneaking ahead, finding and disarming traps while mapping the paths for the rest of the party.
    For sieges, I would probably be trying to grab the relic to take down the defense barrier as seen in the Art of War vid.
    I hope dungeons and raids will have similar objectives: steal the plans, grab an item, plant a forgery, etc...
    Some dungeons should include objectives that will fail if killing is involved - there might be some intrigue involved with allies. Or we might need to rescue some people without inciting a diplomatic confrontation.
    Killing all of the "antagonists" in a dungeon or raid should not always be rewarding. Dungeon crawls should not always be about clearing all "evil". Some dungeons should have rivals that aren't "evil".
    Some dungeon and raid questlines should also have objectives where no killing is a requirement for success.
    And each archetype should have abilities that help them achieve that.
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