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To all the hardcore PvPers out there

I have a question for you. What enjoyment do you get out of a 1-sided fight?

A little background to this question. I'm currently playing on a WoW TBC private realm that happens to be a PvP realm. This isn't my choice but my options are limited. So I was out questing just now and there were a lot of players from the enemy faction running around, including some who were much too high for that zone. Why were they there? To kill people like me. Now I generally don't engage in any form of world PvP as I don't enjoy it and see little point in it. After all, the only time someone is going to engage in a fight is when they are sure to win. Because of this, world PvP is nearly always 1-sided and over in about 5 seconds.

So there I am killing mobs and I get jumped by 2 players from the enemy faction. They were lower level than me and 1v1 I could have killed them, but 2v1 they killed me. The first time I put up a fight, almost killing one of them, but died. I thought this would be the end of it, but no. As soon as I respawned they ganked me again. This time I didn't fight back and just stood there. After all, I knew I couldn't beat them and they had enough CC to lock me down and kill me so I couldn't escape. At this point I was curious to see how many times they would kill a player who never fights back.

6 times. 6 times I respawned and they killed me, despite me not fighting back at all. I'm genuinely curious to know what was going through their heads to want to kill me so many times on respawn like that.
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Comments

  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds
    I'm a total carebear, but...
    I don't understand why you assume that hardcore PvPers enjoy one-sided fights.
  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
    Eh, I'm guess they were just giggling to each other over Discord, doing the whole generic bully/dickwad thing. Having a power trip. Like oooo, wow they sure are flexing on ya... 2v1...

    I agree with dygz though, actual hard-core PvPers wouldn't stick around once they realized it's not even close to being a fair fight. (Unless maybe they hoped that you would call in reinforcements or something? Idk.)
  • Some people are just jerks and there are a lot of them in the MMORPG games, even here the ones of MonkeyMadness are alredy gathering so be ready to either:
    Develop some pvp abilities
    Or
    Become someone's punching bag
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  • neuroguyneuroguy Member
    The game's character selection screen told them you guys are enemies.
  • noaaninoaani Member
    leonerdo wrote: »
    Eh, I'm guess they were just giggling to each other over Discord, doing the whole generic bully/dickwad thing. Having a power trip. Like oooo, wow they sure are flexing on ya... 2v1...

    I agree with dygz though, actual hard-core PvPers wouldn't stick around once they realized it's not even close to being a fair fight. (Unless maybe they hoped that you would call in reinforcements or something? Idk.)

    I have to agree with this.

    There are PvP players, and there are gankers.

    These two groups are mutually exclusive.
  • WololoWololo Member, Leader of Men
    So it is true that a hardcore PvPer enjoys a one-sided fight even when its lost/won by default. The challenge comes from making the best outcome out of every situation. If you are outnumering one person with 5 of yours the challenge is to get the person before he escapes to safezone in some way. If you are being outnumbered by 5 people the challenge becomes to survive, escape, maybe take out one of them in the process.
    A PK-er is a PvPer who cant feed his PvP addiction with PvP-events only ('open world battlegrounds' in ashes), thats why the PK-er goes out in the open world to find any possible way for some PvP. This could be 1v1ing someone / try to piss off a group of people so they chase you all over the map maybe you can single one person out and 1v1 him :P and in Ashes case also starting PvP over a resource node etc.

    Now what you came across are PK-ers who are bored and cant find any PvP. They resort to ganking and killing a random person they find multiple times. In the hope this person will either fight back, call a friend or call the guild for backup. Thats how massive open world pvp battles that went in the history books in serveral games were formed, it starts with ganking randomly and builds from there. Being killed 6 times seems about right. Some go over 10 times but that doesnt make much sence. Often the person leaves after being killed 2 times, calls a friend after 4 times and guild after 6 times.
    In addition ofcource you have that 1% who are so socially messed up irl that they need to grief and insult ppl in the game by PKing to feel better irl. But those often come with much verbal abuse aswell xD

    Being a PvP focussed player myselve, I feel Ashes with the corruption system + caravans + bounty rewards + many personal intrests to PK someone will make PK fun again for both the PvPer and PvEer.
    Cant wait to play ! :#
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  • You make wrong assumptions and you generalize.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    I played a rogue for 8 years... i only pick one-sided fights thats in my nature.
    If I wanted to play fair, then I would choose a warrior and not something that can stealth and stunlock you into oblivion xD
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    @georgeblack I spoke honestly from my own observations, nothing more, nothing less.

    @shkevi That does make a sort of sense. There was a high level guy from my faction running around there as well, ganking much lower levelled players. I didn't get the sense from him that he wanted to start an epic fight (this all happened at around 3am server time, so there weren't many people online), but more than he saw himself as a protector and avenger for players like me.

    *shrugs* it takes all sorts I guess. Oh and for those who are wondering, I'm not angry or salty about getting killed 6 times in a row by the same 2 idiots. I find game-based psychology fascinating and I love studying players who do things like this.
  • Either they got offended because one of them almost died or it took them 5 kills to realize u werent fighting back
    You're seeking perfection, but your disillusions are leading to destruction.
  • BelewynBelewyn Moderator, Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix
    edited June 5
    Nah, you are all reflecting on presumptions of what you perceive we PvPer's think. PvP is a core element to AoC gameplay. It is a catalyst for change, power, economics and truly it shapes the world in an evolutionary way.
    • Economy is in part driven via trade. Trade is conducted via caravan. Caravan can be sacked via ... PvP. Core design element.
    • Nodes are in some instances, Militaristic, controlled via power. That power is reflected via PvP prowess.
    • Open world content can become a point of conflict. There are two schools of thought in how escalated conflict is resolved. 1) is to see who can score the kill first with the highest DPS to get on the loot table (BDO/AA). 2) is to PvP for the "right" to the content.
    • Naval combat!!! A pure favorite of mine. Be it relative to trade dispute / protection of goods, fights over content or just pure and simply a desire to RP that pirate life ... PvP.

    When you look at this short list explanation, you must take into account that a vast majority of PvP players can and do partake in the other elements as well, or they help shape the playing field for them. While "griefers" or those who, be it for a lack of skill or potentially motivated by interactions with the recipient which lead to conflict, are still engaging in yet again, a core gameplay construct.

    MMORPG's like Ashes will cater to what I believe to be the (3) major play styles: PvP, PvE and RP. What balance to one is there, without the others?
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  • ShazeShaze Member
    edited June 5
    What enjoyment do hardcore PvP'ers get out of a 1-sided fight?

    It depends on the type of PvP'er to be fair. Your WoW experience seems to be with Griefers - Players that obtain enjoyment by ruining another player's experience. Besides these, there's those that only enjoy arenas, large scale PvP lovers, gankers who steal loot and many more. Not everyone enjoys a 1-sided fight.

    But then again, the above is simply my personal opinion and it varies from player to player. I'm an RP'er anyways, never touched PvP.
  • WololoWololo Member, Leader of Men
    @belewyn While that is true, there are still PvPers who enjoy PKing in the open world just for the sake of killing and what i tried to point out is that those players dont necessarily have to be griefers.
    Wololo.png
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    Is this where I mine the free salt?
    Aq0KG2f.png
  • BelewynBelewyn Moderator, Member, Phoenix Initiative, Avatar of the Phoenix
    shkevi wrote: »
    @belewyn While that is true, there are still PvPers who enjoy PKing in the open world just for the sake of killing and what i tried to point out is that those players dont necessarily have to be griefers.

    That is true, just in the same sense that we do have PvE or RP elements who goad PvP players from the safe zones. There is always that rogue element which can caste any playstyle in a disfavourable light.
    9ZFgGjR.png
  • I get joy out of a one-sided fight if I'm fighting for something. In ESO that translated to ambushing travelers or overwhelming sieges in Cyrodiil to cripple the enemy's armies. In Ashes that will probably translate to taking or defending territory or transporting goods to make money.

    A one-sided fight for the sake of killing someone - if it doesn't give me anything - would be a waste of my time. I enjoy the fights, but I'm not out here bullying people without a good reason.
    Yo way yo, hom va-ray,
    Yo ay-rah, Jerhume Brunnen-G
    Yo way yo, hom va-ray,
    Yo ay-rah, Jerhume Brunnen-G
  • DamoklesDamokles Member
    Karthos wrote: »
    Is this where I mine the free salt?

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  • argentdawnargentdawn Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 5
    I don't mind a one sided fight... I mean I'm not gonna pick a fight I know I'll lose. However I love open world pvp and the reason is it's unscripted. Were not in an 8x8 arena, were not locked on certain terrain, more people or monsters can jump in. You just can't get that from a circular arena or instanced battleground. That being said I'm not gonna sit there and attack someone severely lower than me and I won't end up downing you 6 times if your not fighting back. Chances are I'll down ya once and move on unless ya don't get the hint. (I'm hunting or gathering in the area) in which case your free game in my mind.

    Who knows maybe someone on the server paid me for my services to keep you out of a certain area or away from a specific good. Coin is powerful.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    This thread is equivalent to asking "why are Asians bad drivers?

    Someone had a bad expirence and made a snap judgement about a group of people because of it. Is there anything else to discuss beyond that?
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    Karthos wrote: »
    This thread is equivalent to asking "why are Asians bad drivers?

    Someone had a bad expirence and made a snap judgement about a group of people because of it. Is there anything else to discuss beyond that?

    Not really. This is someone who experienced something they hadn't encountered before and is curious about the psychology behind the actions taken.

    I never made any judgements about anyone. All I did was ask why a player would engage in behavior that I cannot conceive as enjoyable.

    I have a similar curiosity regarding people who engage in seemingly mindless graffiti or vandalism.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    Karthos wrote: »
    This thread is equivalent to asking "why are Asians bad drivers?

    Someone had a bad expirence and made a snap judgement about a group of people because of it. Is there anything else to discuss beyond that?

    Not really. This is someone who experienced something they hadn't encountered before and is curious about the psychology behind the actions taken.

    I never made any judgements about anyone. All I did was ask why a player would engage in behavior that I cannot conceive as enjoyable.

    I have a similar curiosity regarding people who engage in seemingly mindless graffiti or vandalism.

    Bullshit.

    You literally addressed this thread as "to all hardcore PvPers" and then asked "What enjoyment do you get out of a 1-sided fight?".

    Don't backtrack now that you're embarrassed someone called you out on it.
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  • leonerdoleonerdo Member, Settler
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    edited June 5
    @karthos I'm not backtracking at all, as my intent has remained the same. I addressed the hardcore PvP players because I figured those were the ones who would have the most experience with this type of behaviour and would have the answers I seek.

    EDIT: Rereading my OP I admit that it is badly worded and I can see why you believe I am judging PvPers. For that I'm sorry, it wasn't my intent. As I noted in my previous reply, this is the equivalent of walking past a piece of vandalism and wondering "why do people do this?"

    Nothing more or less than that.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    @karthos I'm not backtracking at all, as my intent has remained the same. I addressed the hardcore PvP players because I figured those were the ones who would have the most experience with this type of behaviour and would have the answers I seek.

    Because you made a judgement based on your experience and directed it towards a specific group as if they all have this trait.

    Tell me where I'm wrong here.

    Point it out specifically.
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  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder
    @karthos See the edit on my previous reply.
  • What happened to you is something called getting ganked. It is the very nature of a pvp world. Now in PVP games Like Battlestar Galactica Online (no longer available servers shut down) You would make list of people that ganked you and then try to get even when they come online.

    Make low level toon on opposing faction add them as a freind figure out were they are hunt them down and get sweet revenge. It is called making rivals which is part of the PVP experience. In a PvP game were killing opposing faction is rewarded all you have to do is get in chat channel and say

    I need help 2 toons keep killing me im at this location. What happens next is truely remarkable. People will be more than happy to help you cuase they all have been ganked before and know the feeling plus feel a sense of duty to protect you if you are low level.

    But guess what then the two people doing ganking can also get help and pretty soon you will have a huge skirmish all because you called for help.

    What I just desribed here is the essence of world PvP. In WoW there are factions so people are naturally inclined to kill opposing facton. Getting ganked six times is a bit much though.

    In WoW you also have PvP and PvE layered together so you will most certainly find your self in unexpected pvp situations. Try to play with a friend if possible.

  • AzathothAzathoth Member, Braver of Worlds
    I don't know about calling it the 'essence' of world PvP, sounds like Ashes may have a few different options. Also, couldn't the same skirmish be created by attacking someone that fights back, and then win or lose attacking them again? Not sure why you would only need to attack those that don't fight back for this to occur, especially if you are 'looking for a skirmish.' Just an opinion though.
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    +1 Skull & Crown metal coin
  • UkyyUkyy Member
    I'm a wow player too, and i'm pretty sure this only happends because of the FACTION based desing of this game. The idea here is, hey your are the opposite faction ? Ok your my ennemy, and we are oin a pvp realm so i have all the reasons to kill you again and again, even if there is no challenge at all and makes no difference in the game but having the low level loosing time. Remove the factions and you'll see that behaviour desapear beacause that plyaer will not be an ennemy anymore.
  • Well i was talkign about world pvp not battlegrounds or other pvp areas. World pvp is just that pvp while you are out adventuring so if you never get attacked or ganked while pveing then there is no world pvp.
  • KarthosKarthos Member, Braver of Worlds
    edited June 11
    consultant wrote: »
    Well i was talkign about world pvp not battlegrounds or other pvp areas. World pvp is just that pvp while you are out adventuring so if you never get attacked or ganked while pveing then there is no world pvp.

    I don't agree with this at all.

    There's more to World PvP than just ganking people trying to gather or quest.

    I think people who don't PvP only get to see that aspect of it. They don't seek out or organize open world PvP and so they only expirence it when it's forced upon them.

    I've personally organized open world PvP raids, I used to do all kinds of Open World PvP, attack Alliance cites in WoW, sail and raid shipping in Archeage until we provoked a good ship fight.

    I feel a good reverse prospective is a PvPer who doesn't craft or raid but only when the game "makes" them. They don't see the full depth of the activity, and they therefore form the opinion its shallow and boring. To them crafting is just grinding out mats, or raiding is just sitting listening to someone with a lisp yell at everyone about CCing and aggroing Welps.

    Are these fair opinions on crafting and raiding? Is this all they are?
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