bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
`In game Node chat channels will exist. Those that choose not to join a Discord server hosted by a guild or large group I don't think can or will be turned away in large open world PvP events.
Rift zone events are a good example here. People just run into the zone get a pop up to join a group or not and start doing their thing. No VC required.
How to force people into VC. As you said simple you can't.
Why worry about it? They don't want to join VC, Move along and do your thing. They don't join your group and don't benefit from it. Maybe they do ok maybe they just get wiped over and over.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
In an open world event Poeple choose to particpate in event but no one will be requiring them to be in voice chat
I'm still unsure what events it is you are talking about here.
As I said earlier, sieges, guild wars and node wars will be organized (or premade groups, to use terms you understand). A number of people will that along that are not a part of that core, but they will be insignificant to the outcome.
I'm unsure what these 250 vs 250 events you are talking about are.
In an open world event Poeple choose to particpate in event but no one will be requiring them to be in voice chat
I'm still unsure what events it is you are talking about here.
As I said earlier, sieges, guild wars and node wars will be organized (or premade groups, to use terms you understand). A number of people will that along that are not a part of that core, but they will be insignificant to the outcome.
I'm unsure what these 250 vs 250 events you are talking about are.
Open world is the Opposite of premade and instance pvp.
Battlegrounds are Open world Node vs Node is Open Node(1000 people and surrounding area. Guild wars will be structured cause of guilds.
In Node vs Node no one will picking who will participate. So Not a premade. Do you understand that. In a Node vs Node there will be a 3 day notice and the people that want too not the people that get picked will participate. There is a huge difference. In a premade the group leader decides who is going to participate in non premade the people decide if they are going to paritcipate regardless of weather or not they use voice chat or not.
Here is something from Ashes WIKI.
Battlegrounds are where PvP battles occur in the open world.[1] These are open world PvP zones that flag players as Combatants (purple).[2]
Caravans.[1]
Node sieges.[1]
Castle sieges (potentially).[3][1]
Objective based guild wars.[4]
I do not think you understand the definition of OPEN WORLD do not see how i could put it any clearer.
You might get some of the people in voice chat but not all the participants so voice chat will not work.
Matter of Fact have not heard any thing about instanced PvP other than Arenas.
Have not heard anything about premade pvp other than areas.
Obviously there will some organization but no one will be there say if you are not in voice chat you cannot play so voice chat will not work for ALL participants in these events with the exception of guild wars. I really do not see how I could explain it any clearer than that.
Same mechanics as a Open World Raid Boss. You and your guildies can group up and go to Raid Boss but you will not be able to get other people already there or that show up at the same time as you in your voice chat.
Just to be clear Open world means that lets say there is no limit on how many people can attend then the whole server could be there. So if lets say the Battleground Arithi Basin from wow was Open Word then the Entire Server could participate in that one event. Unlike WoW there will be only one version of the Event out in the Open World. In WoW you can have thousands of Arithi Basins going on at the same time Insanced PvP does not have to instant que). In Ashes of Creating it wil be like an Event like a Winter Dragon that starts attacking a Node and the people from that node who just happen to be online will defend. In Node vs Noce it will be Players vs Players not Dragon vs Players with three day notice so who ever can attend will and if they decide to be in voice chat they will but not required to.
Thing is if to many people are in one area sometimes servers crash.
I do not think you understand the definition of OPEN WORLD do not see how i could put it any clearer.
I understand it just fine.
What I think you do not get is that those people - people that are likely to include you - are inconsequential to the outcome.
Caravans are small scale - they will most likely only ever be 8 - 10 people per side. Your points make no real sense here.
Sieges and guild wars are going to have people planning and running them, and everyone of worth will be in on the plan. There will be random additional people, but those people do not matter - they can do as they please, join the chat or not, follow others or not, no one cares. If the people organizing the siege or guild war attempted to use the resources they have on hand to try and bring those players in to the fold, they would lose effectiveness, not gain it.
Node wars are likely to follow a similar pattern. Nodes will have a leadership structure, and most large nodes will likely have their own discord server and such as well. When a war is declared on a node, most players present will fall in behind perhaps two or three guilds, and those guilds are likely to work together for the period of the war.
You are right that no one will be there to say if you are not in voice chat you are not welcome. You are wrong that this is an issue.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Seeking to understand.
People show up to an open world pvp event and don't join someone's Discord or in game VC.
Not seeing the problem here.
Is Node/zone chat enough?
Most likely these small group/solo players will show up have fun and leave. I am not seeing a problem here.
Are you asking for a way to FORCE people into voice chat some how?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
Think we need to refocus on the issue which is because open world events like node vs node were no one is there to say you have to be in voice chat there fore voice chat not a viable form of communications for open world events liek Node vs Node.
Yes there is gong to be structure obviosly but voice not really beneficial to that structures. You guys were talking about how it was going work like Eve on line were voice chat is used for Large scale events. Not so in Ashes of creation. You were implicating that All the structure that was needed was voice chat, that could not be further from the truth.
See now you are agreeing with me that there would have to be other forms of sttructure so voice chat is not neccesarilhyy not an issue.
Here is another one see if you have a large scale pvp map or event then you could use a staging areas. For example let say a map has three PvP control points Red, Blue and Green lets say is a 100 vs 100 event. So 33 (34 in one)people could lets say get in Red Circle or Blue Circle or Green Circle if you were to mouse over the areas you could get the composition see how many healers tanks ans dps ther are. Very Quick and easy way to see were peoppel are going
But you guys were saying Hey Why not just use voice chat like in Eve online.
What you were implicating that All the structure that Ashes of Creation is going to put in for these events t could be replaced by voice chat.
So all your statements about Structure are good but previosuly you were implicating Who needs Structure?????? Just use voice Chat.
So now we finally agree that Voice chat cannot be used for Open World Events. Right??????? I am very sure that the Devs at Intrepid Studios can make the events work a in an orderly manner with smart Game Mechanis. With out voice chat. That is a no brainer.
So no it is not going to work like Eve Online. Right?? Go back and read some the posts about that.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I pretty much ignore in-game chat and focus heavily on Skype/Twitch/Discord voice chat.
Node Sieges - we don't have to be in formal raids. We don't have to listen to the Mayor.
I think we will already have our own sub-Node Discord groups based on the citizens who tend to be on when we play. Most likely there will also be a Node Discord channel, so...
While we don't have to formally join the raid, many will probably drop into the Node vs during a siege.
Castle Sieges - each Monarch can choose how they wish to manage communication with the defenders.
In game chat channels are very primitive, easy to implement and work when it makes sense to use them. Organizing prior to an event, quick communication with someone you meet, whispers.....All of this is critically important.
My guild plans on using Discord to do everything organized but if we were unable to use in game chat, it would actually be less social. I don't want 100 people in the channel having conversations that can be typed. I'm hoping to be able to create our own channels for loot distribution information if possible.
People who say they don't read chat and only use voice chat......what? You are incapable of reading quickly? I understand the perspective but that is ridiculous.
For the largest scale events, there will be a host of things to defend and things to destroy. These should feel CHAOTIC. Obviously if you can get people into a discord, you will be able to organize better but for the most part, people who participate are going to either be there to dominate or be there to goof around. Most will know the goals and execute them, some will throw the fight and cause the loss. It's our job to organize these events in any way we can (including in game chat for those who won't join voice coms).
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...
What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.
bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Go back and reread the OP's concern about not everyone being in VC.
I agree with you here can't force people into VC so then what? Chat channels are all that is left. If your group is not going to oginize and find a better way then that is a choice and choices have consequences.
Maouw I agree we need better ways to communicate. Chat channels are basic and work VC better. We need telepathy to really speed this up or maybe nueralink gets to get on the ball and make this stuff work so we can communicate faster.
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...
What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.
I have organized a lot of world pvp through in game chat and sometimes we destroyed the enemy and sometimes we lost. In WOW, I often had to type in battlegrounds to organize people on where to go. Half the time people were brain dead but we still won. I played a hunter at the time and consistently maintained top kills and top damage while still typing directions.
I think the issue here is people are just lazy. The people who complain about typing chat option in game are going to be the ones who just aren't good in AoC. It's quite possible these players don't grasp the magnitude of community vs guild size This game is going to be different than other games we have played. It is going to require us as a community to heavily focus on organization or fail miserably. We will ALL be able to organize amongst our guilds but those who organize the community with every possible tool available will be the ones who truly succeed both from a gaming perspective as well as a social one.
Forcing people into voice coms is just going to isolate those who simply do not wish to join them.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
People who say they don't read chat and only use voice chat......what? You are incapable of reading quickly? I understand the perspective but that is ridiculous.
In-game chat is mostly filled -like 95%- with stuff I have no interest in.
I think we sometimes used the guild chat in-game channel for the one or two people that didn't want to use voice chat.
For the largest scale events, there will be a host of things to defend and things to destroy. These should feel CHAOTIC. Obviously if you can get people into a discord, you will be able to organize better but for the most part, people who participate are going to either be there to dominate or be there to goof around. Most will know the goals and execute them, some will throw the fight and cause the loss. It's our job to organize these events in any way we can (including in game chat for those who won't join voice coms).
I'm expecting the defense objectives during sieges to be fairly static rather than highly chaotic.
There will likely also be patrols to alert when someone blows a hole in wall across town - that report should be able to come through voice chat as well.
But...we have to play to know.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
If voice chat and chat channel is good enough for 250 people possible 500 hundred in 500 vs 500 bracket then well it could work. Said somethin about raid leaders and commanders well IF they are organized it works out.
Just getting 250 to 500 people in voice chat is a challenge. Been part of much smaller group with voice chat and still have communications problems.
But here are some possible problems
There are people that just like to talk all the time
People that like to point out everything that is negative about other players
Guess you could have commanders mute people but that power could be abused.
Some people paly music while playing games so you might hear that too and how are you going to figure out who that is.
In an ideal group were people listen and mostly only talk to give tactical info then yes it would work.
But yes IF voice chat and chat channel work for 250 people most of the time not trying to focus on exceptions Then something like this would not be needed. Like if you only got bad groups ounce in a while.
Last person I was in voice chat with like to sing while playing so.......
Had to search back to see where this thread started.
My expectation is that people will generally be in sub-channels.
For a siege, they might jump into the Node channel.
When I jump into Ashes Discord voice channels, I never hear people idly talking or talking negatively about other players. It's typically one person talking at a time, with an occasional bout of over-talking as a couple people are vying for the mic.
It's pretty common for people to mute their mics until they need to say something - especially if they have music playing. You can usually figure out who that is based on the active mic indicator.
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...
What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.
I have organized a lot of world pvp through in game chat and sometimes we destroyed the enemy and sometimes we lost. In WOW, I often had to type in battlegrounds to organize people on where to go. Half the time people were brain dead but we still won. I played a hunter at the time and consistently maintained top kills and top damage while still typing directions.
.
So you are comparing an battleground where you have Standart objectives from wow with organized Open world pvp with guilds and alliances involved?
I advice you to maybe try Albion online or in a more casual vibe, gw2 wvwvw, you have situations if you act with 2 sec delay from shoutcaller is a guild wipe.... Now imagine typing and 500 people stop to read what they need to do.... You need to remember you Will have people with brains in other side, there is consequence to a Lost, isn't an walk in the Park like Wow battlegrounds here the majority are just farming honor...
@Ramirez The fact that you need to stop what you are doing to simply read something in a chat log is why I will be standing above your corpse to loot your items while you are trying to figure out how you got demolished. Once upon a time, chat logs were the only thing people used and we did fine. Obviously, you have to be brain dead if you don't use voice coms to organize amongst your guild or any other organized group. My point comes into play when I am organizing more than just my guild. Don't be a fool.
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
I am guessing you are talking about using game typing in chat channels like right before the event to get organized. People may not be inclined to respong to like if you ask if any one wants to go to a certain pvp control even if they are going they might not respond or be paying attention or be talking to another person.
But could work fairly way prior ot event if poeple could go to there areas before event stars them people could ask for more people to certain areas adn the like
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
I am guessing you are talking about using game typing in chat channels like right before the event to get organized. People may not be inclined to respong to like if you ask if any one wants to go to a certain pvp control even if they are going they might not respond or be paying attention or be talking to another person.
But could work fairly way prior ot event if poeple could go to there areas before event stars them people could ask for more people to certain areas adn the like
Still working to understand what your proposing.
If VOIP won't work and in game chat channels are not good enough what are you proposing we use to oran
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
I still don't understand why simple in game typing chat channels are not ok?
I am guessing you are talking about using game typing in chat channels like right before the event to get organized. People may not be inclined to respong to like if you ask if any one wants to go to a certain pvp control even if they are going they might not respond or be paying attention or be talking to another person.
But could work fairly way prior ot event if poeple could go to there areas before event stars them people could ask for more people to certain areas adn the like
Still working to understand what your proposing.
If VOIP won't work and in game chat channels are not good enough what are you proposing we use to oran
Not proposing anything just saying the a text channel can be useful prior to the game or in a map that is not combat intensive with non combat periods so you have time to type.
Text channels usually do not work to well cause to busy fighting to stop and type something. But can work good if players are not all bunched up in one areas prior to game. If players were allowed to lets say go to siege weapons and wait a little bit until the event starts then he could let other players know position is already taken.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
During a siege, the direction people arrive in are in constant flux - based on the video we've seen before.
Instructions are given by voice; not by typing.
Which is to be expected. Most people in a siege, trying to coordinate, will probably do so via Discord.
During a siege, the direction people arrive in are in constant flux - based on the video we've seen before.
Instructions are given by voice; not by typing.
Which is to be expected. Most people in a siege, trying to coordinate, will probably do so via Discord.
Already explained this but things like discord will not work too well cuase you will not be doing open world events with yout guild mates you will be doing them with strangers from your node. Unless the all agree to go into a specific voice channel then discord will not work.}
I took the wrong appoach in explaining this by emphazising the number of people. It is the number people plus the random nature of the event. Already went into great detail explaining do not see how i could be any clearer. But it will be like lets all the people that show up to a kill a world boss and trying to get them all into one chat channel.
So for Open world pvp events in which you do not choose your team mates discord will not work. Matter of fact discord will not work for even an 8 man dungeon if you do not get to pick people that you play with. You can find 7 people willing to be in discord to do a dungeoun. But if there 7 people out side dungeoun not of your choosing getting all 7 of them into your discord. You could go with other people to do that dungeoun with you thing No such choice exists in Open World PvP events in Ashes of Creation.
Actually I do not use voice chat for large open world events cause feel no need just know were to go....so how are you and other people like me that do not use voice into your discord. Remember you cannot remove me from the event. Answer is you cannot so voice chat will not work for the Opne world PvP events in Ashes of Creation with the exeption fo guild wars or guild related pvp events cause guild leader requires guild members to be in voice chat or else will not participate.
It is the random nature of the event. Not so much the number of people number of people just makes problem work. Yes I know that discord works in games like Eve online were people make huge groups thin no one will be making huge groups just put into a group for event huge difference.
Already explained this but things like discord will not work too well cuase you will not be doing open world events with yout guild mates you will be doing them with strangers from your node. Unless the all agree to go into a specific voice channel then discord will not work.
We've been over this a few times, but I'll list it for you to make it simple.
Sieges - join Discord and listen for instructions or be a near useless auxiliary.
Guild wars - join Discord or look for another guild.
Node wars - join Discord and listen for instructions or be a near useless auxiliary.
Caravans - small scale content that doesn't need that level of communication.
Monster coin events - larger scale content that doesn't need that level of communication.
Bosses - join Discord or look for another guild.
That literally covers every type of content that is larger than a single group.
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DygzMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@consultant
I don't understand why you think Discord would be limited to guildmates.
Also, I don't understand why you think the people in my Node would be strangers.
There will be server discord channels and Node discord channels.
Most likely the people showing up to work together to kill a world boss will be in a discord channel together.
Or, they could be on Twitch together with the raid leader giving commands being the twitch host.
I would say that chat bubbles will not work well in open world PvP combat because I will not be paying attention to chat bubbles in the midst of battle and Vhaeyne and several others here say the first thing they do is turn off chat bubbles.
There are not many PvP combat events that are random. Most of them are on a schedule.
The people I'm counting on to guard my caravan will be in voice chat...and I will not be communicating via text with other players while I'm trying to guard my caravan.
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bloodprophetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
So for Open world pvp events in which you do not choose your team mates discord will not work. Matter of fact discord will not work for even an 8 man dungeon if you do not get to pick people that you play with. You can find 7 people willing to be in discord to do a dungeoun. But if there 7 people out side dungeoun not of your choosing getting all 7 of them into your discord. You could go with other people to do that dungeoun with you thing No such choice exists in Open World PvP events in Ashes of Creation.
As there are no group finders you DO have full control who is in your group. You or the group leader has control over this stuff. However the only time I have ever been in VC during a dungeon run was hanging with friends and talking about random stuff. Typing in the groups channel was more then enough. This is smaller group stuff raids are different.
Actually I do not use voice chat for large open world events cause feel no need just know were to go....so how are you and other people like me that do not use voice into your discord. Remember you cannot remove me from the event. Answer is you cannot so voice chat will not work for the Opne world PvP events in Ashes of Creation with the exeption fo guild wars or guild related pvp events cause guild leader requires guild members to be in voice chat or else will not participate.
Your right. These large events will draw a lot of various people. The ability to communicate through VC is faster and easier then typing it out. But adding more complexity to it. We also have people from all over the world speaking various languages trying to communicate using these two systems. How do you fix that concern?
Communication is very important. You keep coming back to this idea you can't force people into VC and your right. Typing in chat channels is not as effective as VC again you are right. So no what?
What answers do you propose or see as a viable way to make communication better between the players?
Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
I think you guys are missing the point. Just go to any open world event and start telling people what to do and see what happens. Group Leader????? Sincee when do people just accept group leaders in open world events. Group???? There is no group finders but you cannot contgrol who is going to play with you that is the point. I do not understand why you guys do not get this. It it very similar to a random Que but instead it poeple just so happen to show up. Technically you will be in a group but you do have any control who is going to be in that group for Open world pvp (exception is guild wars obviously). So whaty250 people show up for lets say node vs node defense and then some oneis going to give voice chat infrormation and the majority of them are just going to going into voice chat and on top of all that they are just going to accept you as your leader???
Schedule???? so what?? How does that get people that are strangers in voice chat even if you tell them in advance they will not join voice. The random nature is not the time it is that you cannot control the people that you are going to
Discord limited to Guildmates??? Voice chat is limited to the people that do not want to in it.
You guys are not getting point. see you can make a group of 250 and it works. But what you guys are not getting that your are acting as a filter only the people that 1) want to be in voice chat will be in that 250 group and 2) the person that started will be the accepted leader of the group. With out those 2 elements then voice chat is useless. And those elements are not present in Open world PvP.
Just to be clear in the example about finding 7 people to do a dingeoun with out a group finder the point is if you go ot a dungeoun entrance and find seven people jsut so happen to be outside the dungeouns. and tell them thay all have to be in voice chat to do a the dungeoun that will not work.
Voice chat works like this guys. You put a message that says Looking for people to do a dungeoun discord required and then out of the hundreds of people that get that message some of them respond most like people that already have discord and since you started that group then you are their accepted leader.
And that is the way voice chat works. Number of people not really importatnt.
But if there are seven people out side a dungeoun and you start telling them they need to be in your voice chat channel and you are going to be their group leader they most likely put you on ignore. So unless there is the 2 elements that i described Voice chat is useless.
I just do not understand why people imply that voice chat will work for Open world PvP events in which you have no control who you are going play with.
As far as ideas for cummications for Opne world PvP i have one or two more ideas but in this forums I cannot get passed the. Well just use discord.
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Rift zone events are a good example here. People just run into the zone get a pop up to join a group or not and start doing their thing. No VC required.
How to force people into VC. As you said simple you can't.
Why worry about it? They don't want to join VC, Move along and do your thing. They don't join your group and don't benefit from it. Maybe they do ok maybe they just get wiped over and over.
I'm still unsure what events it is you are talking about here.
As I said earlier, sieges, guild wars and node wars will be organized (or premade groups, to use terms you understand). A number of people will that along that are not a part of that core, but they will be insignificant to the outcome.
I'm unsure what these 250 vs 250 events you are talking about are.
Open world is the Opposite of premade and instance pvp.
Battlegrounds are Open world Node vs Node is Open Node(1000 people and surrounding area. Guild wars will be structured cause of guilds.
In Node vs Node no one will picking who will participate. So Not a premade. Do you understand that. In a Node vs Node there will be a 3 day notice and the people that want too not the people that get picked will participate. There is a huge difference. In a premade the group leader decides who is going to participate in non premade the people decide if they are going to paritcipate regardless of weather or not they use voice chat or not.
Here is something from Ashes WIKI.
Battlegrounds are where PvP battles occur in the open world.[1] These are open world PvP zones that flag players as Combatants (purple).[2]
Caravans.[1]
Node sieges.[1]
Castle sieges (potentially).[3][1]
Objective based guild wars.[4]
I do not think you understand the definition of OPEN WORLD do not see how i could put it any clearer.
You might get some of the people in voice chat but not all the participants so voice chat will not work.
Matter of Fact have not heard any thing about instanced PvP other than Arenas.
Have not heard anything about premade pvp other than areas.
Obviously there will some organization but no one will be there say if you are not in voice chat you cannot play so voice chat will not work for ALL participants in these events with the exception of guild wars. I really do not see how I could explain it any clearer than that.
Same mechanics as a Open World Raid Boss. You and your guildies can group up and go to Raid Boss but you will not be able to get other people already there or that show up at the same time as you in your voice chat.
Thing is if to many people are in one area sometimes servers crash.
What I think you do not get is that those people - people that are likely to include you - are inconsequential to the outcome.
Caravans are small scale - they will most likely only ever be 8 - 10 people per side. Your points make no real sense here.
Sieges and guild wars are going to have people planning and running them, and everyone of worth will be in on the plan. There will be random additional people, but those people do not matter - they can do as they please, join the chat or not, follow others or not, no one cares. If the people organizing the siege or guild war attempted to use the resources they have on hand to try and bring those players in to the fold, they would lose effectiveness, not gain it.
Node wars are likely to follow a similar pattern. Nodes will have a leadership structure, and most large nodes will likely have their own discord server and such as well. When a war is declared on a node, most players present will fall in behind perhaps two or three guilds, and those guilds are likely to work together for the period of the war.
You are right that no one will be there to say if you are not in voice chat you are not welcome. You are wrong that this is an issue.
People show up to an open world pvp event and don't join someone's Discord or in game VC.
Not seeing the problem here.
Is Node/zone chat enough?
Most likely these small group/solo players will show up have fun and leave. I am not seeing a problem here.
Are you asking for a way to FORCE people into voice chat some how?
Yes there is gong to be structure obviosly but voice not really beneficial to that structures. You guys were talking about how it was going work like Eve on line were voice chat is used for Large scale events. Not so in Ashes of creation. You were implicating that All the structure that was needed was voice chat, that could not be further from the truth.
See now you are agreeing with me that there would have to be other forms of sttructure so voice chat is not neccesarilhyy not an issue.
Here is another one see if you have a large scale pvp map or event then you could use a staging areas. For example let say a map has three PvP control points Red, Blue and Green lets say is a 100 vs 100 event. So 33 (34 in one)people could lets say get in Red Circle or Blue Circle or Green Circle if you were to mouse over the areas you could get the composition see how many healers tanks ans dps ther are. Very Quick and easy way to see were peoppel are going
But you guys were saying Hey Why not just use voice chat like in Eve online.
What you were implicating that All the structure that Ashes of Creation is going to put in for these events t could be replaced by voice chat.
So all your statements about Structure are good but previosuly you were implicating Who needs Structure?????? Just use voice Chat.
So now we finally agree that Voice chat cannot be used for Open World Events.
Right??????? I am very sure that the Devs at Intrepid Studios can make the events work a in an orderly manner with smart Game Mechanis. With out voice chat. That is a no brainer.
So no it is not going to work like Eve Online. Right?? Go back and read some the posts about that.
This is the limit of MMO communication
and we must go...
even further...
BEYOND
Yup during a war try to type shoutcalls in ingame chat, no one will see and everyone will wipe because you are typing...
Node Sieges - we don't have to be in formal raids. We don't have to listen to the Mayor.
I think we will already have our own sub-Node Discord groups based on the citizens who tend to be on when we play. Most likely there will also be a Node Discord channel, so...
While we don't have to formally join the raid, many will probably drop into the Node vs during a siege.
Castle Sieges - each Monarch can choose how they wish to manage communication with the defenders.
My guild plans on using Discord to do everything organized but if we were unable to use in game chat, it would actually be less social. I don't want 100 people in the channel having conversations that can be typed. I'm hoping to be able to create our own channels for loot distribution information if possible.
People who say they don't read chat and only use voice chat......what? You are incapable of reading quickly? I understand the perspective but that is ridiculous.
For the largest scale events, there will be a host of things to defend and things to destroy. These should feel CHAOTIC. Obviously if you can get people into a discord, you will be able to organize better but for the most part, people who participate are going to either be there to dominate or be there to goof around. Most will know the goals and execute them, some will throw the fight and cause the loss. It's our job to organize these events in any way we can (including in game chat for those who won't join voice coms).
What people are attempting to tell people that are in the same boat as you is this: If players want to have better coordination/communication they will create a system that fulfills that role. However, if your node is just a bunch of rabble that don't even try to organize for large scale sieges and such beforehand then you deserve the reduced chance of winning.
Why should Ashes of Creation waste time on building a whole structure for something people in most cases will not use? Have you ever heard of anyone using the World of Warcraft in-game voice chat system? I have not and I played that thing since Vanilla.
I agree with you here can't force people into VC so then what? Chat channels are all that is left. If your group is not going to oginize and find a better way then that is a choice and choices have consequences.
Maouw I agree we need better ways to communicate. Chat channels are basic and work VC better. We need telepathy to really speed this up or maybe nueralink gets to get on the ball and make this stuff work so we can communicate faster.
I have organized a lot of world pvp through in game chat and sometimes we destroyed the enemy and sometimes we lost. In WOW, I often had to type in battlegrounds to organize people on where to go. Half the time people were brain dead but we still won. I played a hunter at the time and consistently maintained top kills and top damage while still typing directions.
I think the issue here is people are just lazy. The people who complain about typing chat option in game are going to be the ones who just aren't good in AoC. It's quite possible these players don't grasp the magnitude of community vs guild size This game is going to be different than other games we have played. It is going to require us as a community to heavily focus on organization or fail miserably. We will ALL be able to organize amongst our guilds but those who organize the community with every possible tool available will be the ones who truly succeed both from a gaming perspective as well as a social one.
Forcing people into voice coms is just going to isolate those who simply do not wish to join them.
I think we sometimes used the guild chat in-game channel for the one or two people that didn't want to use voice chat.
I'm expecting the defense objectives during sieges to be fairly static rather than highly chaotic.
There will likely also be patrols to alert when someone blows a hole in wall across town - that report should be able to come through voice chat as well.
But...we have to play to know.
My expectation is that people will generally be in sub-channels.
For a siege, they might jump into the Node channel.
When I jump into Ashes Discord voice channels, I never hear people idly talking or talking negatively about other players. It's typically one person talking at a time, with an occasional bout of over-talking as a couple people are vying for the mic.
It's pretty common for people to mute their mics until they need to say something - especially if they have music playing. You can usually figure out who that is based on the active mic indicator.
So you are comparing an battleground where you have Standart objectives from wow with organized Open world pvp with guilds and alliances involved?
I advice you to maybe try Albion online or in a more casual vibe, gw2 wvwvw, you have situations if you act with 2 sec delay from shoutcaller is a guild wipe.... Now imagine typing and 500 people stop to read what they need to do.... You need to remember you Will have people with brains in other side, there is consequence to a Lost, isn't an walk in the Park like Wow battlegrounds here the majority are just farming honor...
Filter it better.
If you are in a raid and you dont have a chat tab dedicated to raid chat, you are raiding wrong.
Even in guilds where everyone is using voice chat, you still have a tab specifically for raid chat.
If 95% of what is in your raid chat is stuff you have no interested in, why are you in that raid?
I did not type that maybe it was a typo pls fix.
I am guessing you are talking about using game typing in chat channels like right before the event to get organized. People may not be inclined to respong to like if you ask if any one wants to go to a certain pvp control even if they are going they might not respond or be paying attention or be talking to another person.
But could work fairly way prior ot event if poeple could go to there areas before event stars them people could ask for more people to certain areas adn the like
Still working to understand what your proposing.
If VOIP won't work and in game chat channels are not good enough what are you proposing we use to oran
Not proposing anything just saying the a text channel can be useful prior to the game or in a map that is not combat intensive with non combat periods so you have time to type.
Text channels usually do not work to well cause to busy fighting to stop and type something. But can work good if players are not all bunched up in one areas prior to game. If players were allowed to lets say go to siege weapons and wait a little bit until the event starts then he could let other players know position is already taken.
Instructions are given by voice; not by typing.
Which is to be expected. Most people in a siege, trying to coordinate, will probably do so via Discord.
Already explained this but things like discord will not work too well cuase you will not be doing open world events with yout guild mates you will be doing them with strangers from your node. Unless the all agree to go into a specific voice channel then discord will not work.}
I took the wrong appoach in explaining this by emphazising the number of people. It is the number people plus the random nature of the event. Already went into great detail explaining do not see how i could be any clearer. But it will be like lets all the people that show up to a kill a world boss and trying to get them all into one chat channel.
So for Open world pvp events in which you do not choose your team mates discord will not work. Matter of fact discord will not work for even an 8 man dungeon if you do not get to pick people that you play with. You can find 7 people willing to be in discord to do a dungeoun. But if there 7 people out side dungeoun not of your choosing getting all 7 of them into your discord. You could go with other people to do that dungeoun with you thing No such choice exists in Open World PvP events in Ashes of Creation.
Actually I do not use voice chat for large open world events cause feel no need just know were to go....so how are you and other people like me that do not use voice into your discord. Remember you cannot remove me from the event. Answer is you cannot so voice chat will not work for the Opne world PvP events in Ashes of Creation with the exeption fo guild wars or guild related pvp events cause guild leader requires guild members to be in voice chat or else will not participate.
It is the random nature of the event. Not so much the number of people number of people just makes problem work. Yes I know that discord works in games like Eve online were people make huge groups thin no one will be making huge groups just put into a group for event huge difference.
Sieges - join Discord and listen for instructions or be a near useless auxiliary.
Guild wars - join Discord or look for another guild.
Node wars - join Discord and listen for instructions or be a near useless auxiliary.
Caravans - small scale content that doesn't need that level of communication.
Monster coin events - larger scale content that doesn't need that level of communication.
Bosses - join Discord or look for another guild.
That literally covers every type of content that is larger than a single group.
I don't understand why you think Discord would be limited to guildmates.
Also, I don't understand why you think the people in my Node would be strangers.
There will be server discord channels and Node discord channels.
Most likely the people showing up to work together to kill a world boss will be in a discord channel together.
Or, they could be on Twitch together with the raid leader giving commands being the twitch host.
I would say that chat bubbles will not work well in open world PvP combat because I will not be paying attention to chat bubbles in the midst of battle and Vhaeyne and several others here say the first thing they do is turn off chat bubbles.
There are not many PvP combat events that are random. Most of them are on a schedule.
The people I'm counting on to guard my caravan will be in voice chat...and I will not be communicating via text with other players while I'm trying to guard my caravan.
So for Open world pvp events in which you do not choose your team mates discord will not work. Matter of fact discord will not work for even an 8 man dungeon if you do not get to pick people that you play with. You can find 7 people willing to be in discord to do a dungeoun. But if there 7 people out side dungeoun not of your choosing getting all 7 of them into your discord. You could go with other people to do that dungeoun with you thing No such choice exists in Open World PvP events in Ashes of Creation.
As there are no group finders you DO have full control who is in your group. You or the group leader has control over this stuff. However the only time I have ever been in VC during a dungeon run was hanging with friends and talking about random stuff. Typing in the groups channel was more then enough. This is smaller group stuff raids are different.
Actually I do not use voice chat for large open world events cause feel no need just know were to go....so how are you and other people like me that do not use voice into your discord. Remember you cannot remove me from the event. Answer is you cannot so voice chat will not work for the Opne world PvP events in Ashes of Creation with the exeption fo guild wars or guild related pvp events cause guild leader requires guild members to be in voice chat or else will not participate.
Your right. These large events will draw a lot of various people. The ability to communicate through VC is faster and easier then typing it out. But adding more complexity to it. We also have people from all over the world speaking various languages trying to communicate using these two systems. How do you fix that concern?
Communication is very important. You keep coming back to this idea you can't force people into VC and your right. Typing in chat channels is not as effective as VC again you are right. So no what?
What answers do you propose or see as a viable way to make communication better between the players?
Schedule???? so what?? How does that get people that are strangers in voice chat even if you tell them in advance they will not join voice. The random nature is not the time it is that you cannot control the people that you are going to
Discord limited to Guildmates??? Voice chat is limited to the people that do not want to in it.
You guys are not getting point. see you can make a group of 250 and it works. But what you guys are not getting that your are acting as a filter only the people that 1) want to be in voice chat will be in that 250 group and 2) the person that started will be the accepted leader of the group. With out those 2 elements then voice chat is useless. And those elements are not present in Open world PvP.
Just to be clear in the example about finding 7 people to do a dingeoun with out a group finder the point is if you go ot a dungeoun entrance and find seven people jsut so happen to be outside the dungeouns. and tell them thay all have to be in voice chat to do a the dungeoun that will not work.
Voice chat works like this guys. You put a message that says Looking for people to do a dungeoun discord required and then out of the hundreds of people that get that message some of them respond most like people that already have discord and since you started that group then you are their accepted leader.
And that is the way voice chat works. Number of people not really importatnt.
But if there are seven people out side a dungeoun and you start telling them they need to be in your voice chat channel and you are going to be their group leader they most likely put you on ignore. So unless there is the 2 elements that i described Voice chat is useless.
I just do not understand why people imply that voice chat will work for Open world PvP events in which you have no control who you are going play with.
As far as ideas for cummications for Opne world PvP i have one or two more ideas but in this forums I cannot get passed the. Well just use discord.