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Amazon Game Studios - New World = Learning opportunity

MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
in General Discussion
New world shares a lot of similarities with the Ashes of creation vision. In my opinion, AoC has a lot more potential but New World can still be seen as an amazing learning opportunity.

Intrepid studios, please, watch the community feedback on New World when it comes out. Learn from their mistakes and especially from their future succeses.
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Comments

  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Care to elaborate on what mistakes you think New World have made so far? I haven't really paid much attention to it so I know very little about it.
  • mcstackersonmcstackerson Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    They are talking about when it's released.

    Hard to judge something that isn't even out yet.
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    mcstackerson wrote: »
    They are talking about when it's released.

    Hard to judge something that isn't even out yet.

    And yet so many people do just that...
  • SarevokSarevok Member, Alpha Two
    I heard they gutted the PvP in it. Once i heard that I stopped caring.
  • JahlonJahlon Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    New world shares a lot of similarities with the Ashes of creation vision. In my opinion, AoC has a lot more potential but New World can still be seen as an amazing learning opportunity.

    Intrepid studios, please, watch the community feedback on New World when it comes out. Learn from their mistakes and especially from their future succeses.

    New World is basically lifting good ideas from Ashes. What New World was last year and what it is now are 2 drastically different products. There is a reason why the Ashes community calls New World "Ashes Lite"

    The two systems are so drastically different that complaints about New World won't really be relevant to Ashes of Creation because Ashes is doing things in a different and better way.

    hpsmlCJ.jpg
    Make sure to check out Ashes 101
    Ashes 101 on YouTube
  • MakinojiMakinoji Member, Warrior of Old, Kickstarter, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jahlon wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    New world shares a lot of similarities with the Ashes of creation vision. In my opinion, AoC has a lot more potential but New World can still be seen as an amazing learning opportunity.

    Intrepid studios, please, watch the community feedback on New World when it comes out. Learn from their mistakes and especially from their future succeses.

    New World is basically lifting good ideas from Ashes. What New World was last year and what it is now are 2 drastically different products. There is a reason why the Ashes community calls New World "Ashes Lite"

    The two systems are so drastically different that complaints about New World won't really be relevant to Ashes of Creation because Ashes is doing things in a different and better way.

    I was just thinking of this as well.

    They are even calling the sickness on their planet "corruption"....smh...amazon has the money so I doubt they will let NW fail but it's already telling when they back down from their promised PVP system.

    What else should you expect from a huge corporation who lets its employees work during a pandemic?
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Wandering Mist wrote: »
    Care to elaborate on what mistakes you think New World have made so far? I haven't really paid much attention to it so I know very little about it.

    It comes out soon in may or maybe 1 more month, This will give us tons of valuable feedback.
  • MarzzoMarzzo Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Jahlon wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    New world shares a lot of similarities with the Ashes of creation vision. In my opinion, AoC has a lot more potential but New World can still be seen as an amazing learning opportunity.

    Intrepid studios, please, watch the community feedback on New World when it comes out. Learn from their mistakes and especially from their future succeses.

    New World is basically lifting good ideas from Ashes. What New World was last year and what it is now are 2 drastically different products. There is a reason why the Ashes community calls New World "Ashes Lite"

    The two systems are so drastically different that complaints about New World won't really be relevant to Ashes of Creation because Ashes is doing things in a different and better way.

    True. But if some similar systems turn out to be steaming pile of turds maybe we should note that and adapt!
  • VentharienVentharien Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »

    True. But if some similar systems turn out to be steaming pile of turds maybe we should note that and adapt!
    It's difficult to tell. After all, two very similar systems implemented in different ways can have very different outcomes.

  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    do we have any info on the amount it took to make new world?
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited March 2020
    New World looks kind of interesting concept and perhaps something what I can concider to test out. I have not followed closely the development, but I guess I am going now on. The era looks like placing to the 17th century which is nice and fresh even I am usually more interested of the Middle Ages. I have to say that I have not seen much similarities with New World and AoC, but in other hand, my knowledge of the New World is quite limited though. Those who accuse Amazon of borrowing ideas from IS, could you open up a little bit what are these features or mechanics you are referring to?
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Makinoji wrote: »
    Jahlon wrote: »
    Marzzo wrote: »
    New world shares a lot of similarities with the Ashes of creation vision. In my opinion, AoC has a lot more potential but New World can still be seen as an amazing learning opportunity.

    Intrepid studios, please, watch the community feedback on New World when it comes out. Learn from their mistakes and especially from their future succeses.

    New World is basically lifting good ideas from Ashes. What New World was last year and what it is now are 2 drastically different products. There is a reason why the Ashes community calls New World "Ashes Lite"

    The two systems are so drastically different that complaints about New World won't really be relevant to Ashes of Creation because Ashes is doing things in a different and better way.
    What else should you expect from a huge corporation who lets its employees work during a pandemic?

    Most of the corporations are still working even we have this global corona pandemic.The whole world does not need to stop completely, the working habits just need some new kind of procedures if possible. Moreover, if we think Amazon's actions in general, they focus to ship medical products and basic household needs to help with the crisis. And if you referred to the game development that is something what can easily be done from home as well, as applicaple of course.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • DusknoirDusknoir Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I was in the NDA alpha for New World. I see it as 100% a learning opportunity. The game itself was NOT good in my opinion, however I do believe that it will eventually spark a good thing. I believe amazon game studios is a great thing to have as extra competition for the industry.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    PracticalChip wrote: »
    I was in the NDA alpha for New World. I see it as 100% a learning opportunity. The game itself was NOT good in my opinion, however I do believe that it will eventually spark a good thing. I believe amazon game studios is a great thing to have as extra competition for the industry.

    I hope that New World helps Amazon to develop a ground breaking Lord of the Rings MMO.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • darthadendarthaden Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Marzzo wrote: »
    Wandering Mist wrote: »
    Care to elaborate on what mistakes you think New World have made so far? I haven't really paid much attention to it so I know very little about it.

    It comes out soon in may or maybe 1 more month, This will give us tons of valuable feedback.

    May 28th is the exact date with Beta sometime in April (no exact date given yet so probably end of April). I ordered it figuring It'll hopefully get me through for a few months anyway. Ill probably bounce from that to Wow classic TBC when it comes.....hopefully by the time I'm sick of TBC Ashes will be in continuous alpha-beta
  • NodoffNodoff Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    The two games have VERY little in common, so I don't see much in the way of useful info they could glean from NW.
    11wn1c3qmy20.gif
  • SarevokSarevok Member, Alpha Two
    Nodoff wrote: »
    The two games have VERY little in common, so I don't see much in the way of useful info they could glean from NW.

    I actually prefer a classless system more but at the end of the day all games are all similar in most ways.
  • rodzorrodzor Member, Braver of Worlds, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Combat looks fun but if the PvP isnt there im gone fast.
  • voidshadowvoidshadow Member
    ferryman wrote: »
    PracticalChip wrote: »
    I was in the NDA alpha for New World. I see it as 100% a learning opportunity. The game itself was NOT good in my opinion, however I do believe that it will eventually spark a good thing. I believe amazon game studios is a great thing to have as extra competition for the industry.

    I hope that New World helps Amazon to develop a ground breaking Lord of the Rings MMO.

    I feel as if that is the goal. New world is a test run for lotr. I expect a lot of reused assets but a much more polished game for when the lotr mmo is a thing. Also i get the feeling they're pretty well of with the lotr mmo already. Might try releasing it in tandem to the tv show
    Where there is light, there is shadow. I am the shadow without the light. The shadow of nothingness. The VoidShadow
  • WololoWololo Member, Phoenix Initiative, Hero of the People, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    played new world under nda. you can see they did put alot of money and time in that game when it comes to graphic design and performance optimizations. however, at no point it feld like playing a mmo but more like a online survival game. the worse imo is the messed up pvp which feels unsalvageable.
  • NagashNagash Member, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Wololo wrote: »
    played new world under nda. you can see they did put alot of money and time in that game when it comes to graphic design and performance optimizations. however, at no point it feld like playing a mmo but more like a online survival game. the worse imo is the messed up pvp which feels unsalvageable.

    I'm just going to play it for a few weeks before I pass judgment but a lot if people have shared the same view as you.
    nJ0vUSm.gif

    The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    From what i have seen until now, it looks as if it was just a testbed for the combat and PvP setting in the LotR game.
    I still dont believe that a MMORPG without dungeons or raids will ever be my cup of tea tbh. (That was also the reason, why i dint play BDO for any amount of time)
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Wololo wrote: »
    played new world under nda. you can see they did put alot of money and time in that game when it comes to graphic design and performance optimizations. however, at no point it feld like playing a mmo but more like a online survival game. the worse imo is the messed up pvp which feels unsalvageable.

    I am not a big fan of survival games and this is my fear as well. However, I have tried to dig some information, and it seams there will be quite interesting features when the game is ready for launch. I hope the settlement with playerhousing, factions and town project-progression system helps with the survival feeling. Furthermore, I am interested see how the corrupted breaches and fort defences works out. What it comes to PvP I really want se how the war system works and how interesting those missions will be. Even the free open world PVP was removed and it was replaced with a flag system, perhaps those PvP missions which automatically flags players will lead to interesting open world PvP action.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Damokles wrote: »
    I still dont believe that a MMORPG without dungeons or raids will ever be my cup of tea tbh. (That was also the reason, why i dint play BDO for any amount of time)

    I have also wondered that will those corrupted breaches, world bosses and fort defences be enough for PvE end-game content. If something more is planned for the future that would be nice and maybe even needed.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    voidshadow wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    PracticalChip wrote: »
    I was in the NDA alpha for New World. I see it as 100% a learning opportunity. The game itself was NOT good in my opinion, however I do believe that it will eventually spark a good thing. I believe amazon game studios is a great thing to have as extra competition for the industry.

    I hope that New World helps Amazon to develop a ground breaking Lord of the Rings MMO.

    Also i get the feeling they're pretty well of with the lotr mmo already. Might try releasing it in tandem to the tv show

    Those two projects will support each other for sure and I have personally really high hopes from both of them.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • George_BlackGeorge_Black Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Sarevok wrote: »
    I heard they gutted the PvP in it. Once i heard that I stopped caring.

    Same
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    edited April 2020
    I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.

    "One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."

    Here is the whole explanation from devs behalf: https://newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
  • Wandering MistWandering Mist Member, Founder, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited April 2020
    ferryman wrote: »
    I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.

    "One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."

    Here is the whole explanation from devs behalf: https://newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp

    I honestly can't believe the devs were so naive to think this wouldn't happen. It's like they have never played an open world PvP game before (which they probably haven't). Reading the article there are a few other things that stand out, like this line:
    To be specific, by PvP we mean, fair fights that are organized, skill based, and opted into by all participants.

    Since when has open world PvP ever been fair? Cmon guys, you cannot be this clueless. If you wanted fair, organised, skill based PvP why are you making an open world PvP-focused game with a full loot drop system? That is the opposite of fair and organised.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    ferryman wrote: »
    I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.

    "One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."

    Here is the whole explanation from devs behalf: https://newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp

    This is why no game with a persistent world with full loot PvP has ever existed nor will ever exist.

    I really don't understand players that want this.

    Any time you see a game claiming to have this, you just know it is either never going to be released, or will be changed within weeks of the first PvP play test.
  • FerrymanFerryman Member
    Wandering Mist wrote: »
    ferryman wrote: »
    I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.

    "One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."

    Here is the whole explanation from devs behalf: https://newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp

    I honestly can't believe the devs were so naive to think this wouldn't happen. It's like they have never played an open world PvP game before (which they probably haven't). Reading the article there are a few other things that stand out, like this line:
    To be specific, by PvP we mean, fair fights that are organized, skill based, and opted into by all participants.

    Since when has open world PvP ever been fair? Cmon guys, you cannot be this clueless. If you wanted fair, organised, skill based PvP why are you making an open world PvP-focused game with a full loot drop system? That is the opposite of fair and organised.

    I guess the amount of toxicity that the open world PvP caused in their product, came them as surprise and not the behaviour in general. They wanted to do a open world PvP game with full loot but they were not satisfied with the results. I do not see anything special there.

    With the fairness I got the feeling they refer more to their new PvP definition rather than the old full loot version.

    I tried to analyze a little bit the situation and end up with following conclusions. Developers wanted to create a full loot PvP game and I think they were awere of the risks what this may cause. However, it seams they were surprised how much toxic behaviour they encountered and especially the systematic killing of lower level players. If I compare the situation with Albion Online, what I have played before, there players are closer as equal because of the power gap between players is smaller. At least I predict so because in Albion there is no character levels. There is obviously something more involved, and most likely one reason is that the playerbase will be larger with the new PvP rules and will appeal for wider audience. It is not hard to predict that this change ensures brighter future of the game.
    Do you need a ride to the Underworld?
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