I believe we have already established that no one else speaks with their wallet.
I don't recall this being established.
I am paying Intrepid to develop an MMO to the best of their ability. This means hiring professional, experienced MMO developers with decades of experience. People that have earned the right to be called experts in their particular field.
Should Intrepid ignore those in house experts, and instead listen to the whims of any non-expert, non-professional bystander just because they pay Intrepid a paltry $15 a month (note; this group includes myself), then I will cease paying Intrepid, as they are no longer developing an MMO to the best of their ability.
I actually hate the corruption system AoC is putting in place but that's just me. This could be the BDO mentality in me or I'm just an ass but in BDO if I was grinding a rotation and someone came along I gave them 1 chance to move along since I asked them politely to relocate. If I saw them again in my rotation, they were dead or I was. The problem with BDO's system is that people could just respawn, run back and die to me over and over increasing my karma. This was "karma bombing." Eventually, I would have to waste declaring war on the guild (if they were eligible) and once it was fair game they'd finally leave.
My guild left war decs up for a while when this happened so there was that.
When it comes to full loot as long as it doesn't take me hours or days to reach a fully decked out suit of armor + weapon only to die in the matter of a few seconds and lose it all I can deal with full loot.
I dont know exactly how intrepid servers will work when it is live, but in this situation if you beat the other player or they killed you, one of you should be seamlessly moved to another server/channel for a set period of time so they can not just come back at you repeatedly, I feel like that would be a good solution, also this would be only for open-world pvp in highly contested farming spots.
I dont know exactly how intrepid servers will work when it is live, but in this situation if you beat the other player or they killed you, one of you should be seamlessly moved to another server/channel for a set period of time so they can not just come back at you repeatedly, I feel like that would be a good solution, also this would be only for open-world pvp in highly contested farming spots.
The servers are all seperate, though there's infrastructure from what they've revealed that has handshake protocols passing characters between smaller server groups. This seems to be based on distance and position, not instancing on the same spot, or 'Shards'. though i could seem them possibly using systems like these during peace time city or metro life. Also there won't be highly contested farming spots like you see in other games. Just because you found x material in one spot in the woods, doesnt mean you'll find that material in that spot the next day. Resources are finite, and move.
0
Options
NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I believe we have already established that no one else speaks with their wallet.
I don't recall this being established.
Then you should keep up. That was the point that started this whole bit - that deciding not to do business with a company who consistently cannot keep their promises is somehow other than a failure on the part of the company in question.
I've ignored the rest of your post given that it is little more than taking something out of context and using it to lob aspersions.
New World will flop. LOTR stands a chance given the terms of licensing assure compliance with both theme and content parameters (for design).
We'll see if AGS can manage to stand apart from its parent company but I"m not holding my breath.
boycott don't work in gaming and if they did companies like EA and Activision would be bankrupt
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
I believe we have already established that no one else speaks with their wallet.
I don't recall this being established.
Then you should keep up. That was the point that started this whole bit - that deciding not to do business with a company who consistently cannot keep their promises is somehow other than a failure on the part of the company in question.
Walking away from a company that doesn't keep their promises is not the same as no one else speaking with their wallet.
I am more than happy for companies to change things if they see fit. If a company says something, but then later on says that the thing they previously said turned out to not work as they wanted, then that's cool. As long as the product they are making is still going to be a quality product, that's fine.
If a company has to make changes to the initial plan for a product and someone walks away from that company as a result, that isn't "talking with your wallet", that is sulking like an 8 year old.
Walking away from a game because you don't like the changes they had to make is also fine - it is no longer a product for you. However, walking away from the entire company as you claimed to do is, once again, sulking like an 8 year old.
I have clearly pointed out situations in which I will "talk with my wallet" in this thread, so claiming that no one else is is just blatantly false. it's just that no one else will under the circumstances that you will, because the rest of us are older than 8.
0
Options
NodoffMember, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
The two games have VERY little in common, so I don't see much in the way of useful info they could glean from NW.
I actually prefer a classless system more but at the end of the day all games are all similar in most ways.
Sure, I guess, if you mean they are both video games, with enemies you kill, a leveling system, items to collect, and stat points....
Otherwise, no they have very little in common.
I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.
"One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."
If a company has to make changes to the initial plan for a product and someone walks away from that company as a result, that isn't "talking with your wallet", that is sulking like an 8 year old.
Walking away from a game because you don't like the changes they had to make is also fine - it is no longer a product for you. However, walking away from the entire company as you claimed to do is, once again, sulking like an 8 year old.
I have clearly pointed out situations in which I will "talk with my wallet" in this thread, so claiming that no one else is is just blatantly false. it's just that no one else will under the circumstances that you will, because the rest of us are older than 8.
Ah, I see... you point out someone's difference of opinion, repeatedly call them immature, and somehow, do not realize the only one acting like an 8-year old.... is you.
Enjoy that. /salute
You realize I'm not the one that literally said "do what I want or I'll run away!", right?
You can claim I'm being immature all you want. I don't care. I don't even overly disagree. At the end of the day though, I am not immature enough to say "do what I want or I'll run away!". So, regardless of how immature you think I am, your actions have proven you to be more so.
Oh, and to be perfectly fair, I didn't call you immature, I called your actions (sulking) immature.
But then, only mature people would understand the difference.
(by the way, the above line inferred you were immature, though it still isn't calling you immature).
Oh boy. You entered into this conversation upon the statement that you had ceased to have anything to do with Amazon, with the express reason that you had pulled from the NDA since you felt they were not 'Following the data'. You then attempted to included current events to question their character as a company (which is not relevant to any discussion here actually) to make your claim appear to have some moral backing, and less a bratty statement several people here mocked.
When at first @Lalli Made the mild statement that your decision as stated, seemed to be a little extreme, you made several comments that culminated in you insinuating no one else but you speaks with their wallet, then even referred back to it as if you had established it as a fact.
Not only have you railroaded the conversation of it's original, pertinent subject, you've been continually snobby, confrontational, and insulting. You have kept trying to get the last word in with end statements sounding like you are closing the subject, apparently oblivious that everyone now is just being amused by your antics (i should have brought popcorn for lunch).
@noaani attempted to educate you on the differences between, saying someone is acting in a certain way, and saying that person IS that way, but you didn't seem to grasp that so i'll be super clear. Not only have you represented yourself as a entitled, brat, but i would go so far to say that your snobbery, sarcasm, and sulking are character traits you should work on, and personally, i hope i never have you in the same server, or actual gaming group.
Shhh, don't simplify it for them! The best arguments to watch are ones where neither can walk away realizing they will never get through to the other person or will never have the last word. I had popcorn and was waiting to see how long this could go.
Oh look, the bandwagon has arrived. How utterly usual.
I do so love how people try to pretend what they read into a sentence is the same as what the sentence actually says.
It's hard to shut a discussion when there's no discussion happening, but I'm flattered you think I have that capability, but I don't need it, as you'll see.
We don't really do bandwagons on these forums, everyone is too busy playing their own tune to be able to form a cohesive band.
This is a good thing, imo.
Also, it isn't you they think will keep the conversation going - those that have been around these forums long enough know full well that I will. So don't flatter yourself with that one.
As @Ventharien stated a few posts up, you entered this thread with quite some force, coming in telling us all how you aren't giving any more money to Amazon in any form - not just the game studio - all because they won't listen to you.
You literally said that you are no longer giving money to one the the biggest companies on the planet, because one of their more insignificant divisions won't listen to what you have to say about one of their products.
Now you are just trying to make yourself look like less of a child by saying events that happened after you made that call are also a part of the reason.
Transparent as glass, my friend.
The reasonable response for you to make two weeks ago when asked if your reaction wasn't perhaps a bit over the top would be to just say that yes it was, we are all susceptible to a bit of hyperbole on occasion, and this was your occasion. We would have all laughed and carried on with our day.
Now though, the best thing for you to do would be to apologize and say that your account must have somehow got hacked.
The only reason this is an issue - or more a source of entertainment for several people - is because you doubled down on the statement, and also essentially mocked others for not having the same stance as you. You can't go back on that now, or provide "other reasons" for your stance now (especially not ones that happened after you said it).
All you can do is take your own statement of "I am not giving any of Amazon any more of my money because they - as one of the largest companies on the planet - wouldn't listen to me" and either double down again (triple down?) that this is your stance, immaturity of it and all. Either that, or you can say that this isn't your stance, and you yourself were mistaken and perhaps had a two week long period of hyperbole (or an account hack). Either way, it is too late to attempt to introduce other potential reasons for your stance in to the discussion - and again, especially ones that happened after you made the statement.
The main 'learning' that can be had from NW is to not promote a certain kind of game, and even let people playtest it, then profoundly change things... and expect people to be sane and measured about it. That's not to say the changes NW is working on aren't right / don't make sense / etc. To the PvP crowd, the sky is falling but, in truth, the PvP crowd thinks the sky is falling anytime they can't murder randoms and steal all their stuff so, you know, aren't always balanced people to debate with anyway. But the fact remains, NW said it was one thing, then declared it was something very different. And people didn't like that. There's a learning there, yes.
Best comment yet, I particularly love the delicious, salty tears of PK players..
I'm glad someone caught the remark. I've got no beef with PvP games (I'll probably go and play some War Thunder after writing this), or PvP elements within MMOs, but it's the way the PvP (and generally yes, the PK crowd), approach the topic. It actually becomes very funny and cliche at times. Kinda along the lines of:
Developer: Our game is a co-operative farming simulator roughly based on 19th century France.
Passing PK: Where's the full-loot? Can I kill anyone? No? Well your game SUCKS.
Developer: Er, that's not what the game is about.
Passing PK: Well it SHOULD BE! You have no idea what people want! Add it to the game or I WON'T PLAY*!
(*And by "play", they mean dabble with the game for two months, slagging it off the whole time, until the next big shiny appears on the horizon and they leave, never to return. Like they were never there at all, actually.)
1
Options
NagashMember, Leader of Men, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I'm sorry but I don't understand your point anymore, this seems more like you venting that making sense about ashes
The dead do not squabble as this land’s rulers do. The dead have no desires, petty jealousies or ambitions. A world of the dead is a world at peace
Why do PKers still act like they have no gaming choices? Being the niche of the niche of already fast withering origin, they're like b-tier marketshare pretending they can pass as 'gold' market if they're loud enough.
Yup, and not only that... it's indiscriminate. They're in every forum of every MMO under development, pushing their case. Whether the game in question would really suit their demands or not. That's the part that always gets me, and which I was poking a bit of fun at in my little role-play. It's like it doesn't matter what the game itself is about, there's just this non-stop vibe of, I-wanna-kill-people-and-if-you-don't-let-me-then-you-and-your-game-suck!
@Sarevok the game punish you more if you don't fight back. If you kill someone who didn't fight back they actually drop more mats and you become corrupt.
It could be possible people try to *trick* you into killing them while not having any mats, not sure what happens then.
But you forget that traveling is a thing in AoC. No teleports or things like that. So if you're farming in a far away spot and you engaged someone else on PVP because they want your mobs, they have all the reasons to fight back.
They could not, giving you corruption, but they also lose time/materials.
Also, the way you present your idea of PvP is not very good. You want to kill people without consequences. Even if society would allow that, there's always Eye for an eye.
So yeah, Intrepid is actually making you accountable for your actions, which I find it's great.
@Sarevok the game punish you more if you don't fight back. If you kill someone who didn't fight back they actually drop more mats and you become corrupt.
If I'm willing to die rather than fight, I shouldn't be punished for that.
It makes no sense. Under no circumstance people would refuse to fight. You have to protect yourself.
People keep making this huge deal about gankers when they're not a reality. They will be there, but there will be also bounty hunters.
If someone is red, they get corruption, bounty hunters, drop their gear.
They're losing equal or even more gear/time than you do.
Without PvP there will be no conflict.
I just don't get why people can't accept that this is a PvP game, and keep trying to force their way of playing. Thank god Steven is out keeping his word.
You want PvE? There are other games that have that.
Those games are themeparks, the story is laid out for you and you're just a passive agent that consumes such story.
AoC is a living world, the story created by its player.
You telling me you got ganked and lost that extremely rare material?
That is enough reason for your guild to declare war and start harassing the other guild.
It's all about risk vs reward.
Your guildies want that sweet xp farming spot? You better fight for it.
If I'm willing to die rather than fight, I shouldn't be punished for that. I do not exist in this game to satisfy someone else's ambitions to war. If I can make an enjoyable time out of remaining utterly in town at all times, I'll be here. If not, well, duh.
That isn't how game design works.
Intrepid have an action they desire you to take, but they do not wish to force you to take that activity.
As such, they set up a basic penalty/reward structure to encourage the action they want you to take, but without forcing the issue.
This is good game design.
If you do not wish to play a game where players can attack you, and you choosing to not fight back will result in greater penalties for yourself, then Ashes isn't for you.
I personally understand developers choise to leave full loot PvP rules out of the game. It can cause serious problems even in some games it would work just fine.
"One of the problems we observed with this system was that some high level players were killing low level players, A LOT. Sometimes exclusively. This often led to solo or group griefing scenarios that created a toxic environment for many players. To be clear, this behavior was not shown by all PvP players, but enough to cause significant issues."
This is why no game with a persistent world with full loot PvP has ever existed nor will ever exist.
I really don't understand players that want this.
Any time you see a game claiming to have this, you just know it is either never going to be released, or will be changed within weeks of the first PvP play test.
Comments
I am paying Intrepid to develop an MMO to the best of their ability. This means hiring professional, experienced MMO developers with decades of experience. People that have earned the right to be called experts in their particular field.
Should Intrepid ignore those in house experts, and instead listen to the whims of any non-expert, non-professional bystander just because they pay Intrepid a paltry $15 a month (note; this group includes myself), then I will cease paying Intrepid, as they are no longer developing an MMO to the best of their ability.
I dont know exactly how intrepid servers will work when it is live, but in this situation if you beat the other player or they killed you, one of you should be seamlessly moved to another server/channel for a set period of time so they can not just come back at you repeatedly, I feel like that would be a good solution, also this would be only for open-world pvp in highly contested farming spots.
boycott don't work in gaming and if they did companies like EA and Activision would be bankrupt
I am more than happy for companies to change things if they see fit. If a company says something, but then later on says that the thing they previously said turned out to not work as they wanted, then that's cool. As long as the product they are making is still going to be a quality product, that's fine.
If a company has to make changes to the initial plan for a product and someone walks away from that company as a result, that isn't "talking with your wallet", that is sulking like an 8 year old.
Walking away from a game because you don't like the changes they had to make is also fine - it is no longer a product for you. However, walking away from the entire company as you claimed to do is, once again, sulking like an 8 year old.
I have clearly pointed out situations in which I will "talk with my wallet" in this thread, so claiming that no one else is is just blatantly false. it's just that no one else will under the circumstances that you will, because the rest of us are older than 8.
Sure, I guess, if you mean they are both video games, with enemies you kill, a leveling system, items to collect, and stat points....
Otherwise, no they have very little in common.
The game didn't have full loot PVP to begin with, unless you died while flagged a Criminal, Which was the risk of flagging Crim to gank folks.
You only lost what was in your bag, not what was on your character, or on your hotbar.
You realize I'm not the one that literally said "do what I want or I'll run away!", right?
You can claim I'm being immature all you want. I don't care. I don't even overly disagree. At the end of the day though, I am not immature enough to say "do what I want or I'll run away!". So, regardless of how immature you think I am, your actions have proven you to be more so.
Oh, and to be perfectly fair, I didn't call you immature, I called your actions (sulking) immature.
But then, only mature people would understand the difference.
(by the way, the above line inferred you were immature, though it still isn't calling you immature).
Enjoy that. /salute
When at first @Lalli Made the mild statement that your decision as stated, seemed to be a little extreme, you made several comments that culminated in you insinuating no one else but you speaks with their wallet, then even referred back to it as if you had established it as a fact.
Not only have you railroaded the conversation of it's original, pertinent subject, you've been continually snobby, confrontational, and insulting. You have kept trying to get the last word in with end statements sounding like you are closing the subject, apparently oblivious that everyone now is just being amused by your antics (i should have brought popcorn for lunch).
@noaani attempted to educate you on the differences between, saying someone is acting in a certain way, and saying that person IS that way, but you didn't seem to grasp that so i'll be super clear. Not only have you represented yourself as a entitled, brat, but i would go so far to say that your snobbery, sarcasm, and sulking are character traits you should work on, and personally, i hope i never have you in the same server, or actual gaming group.
I guess we're saying enjoy that after things.
This is a good thing, imo.
Also, it isn't you they think will keep the conversation going - those that have been around these forums long enough know full well that I will. So don't flatter yourself with that one.
As @Ventharien stated a few posts up, you entered this thread with quite some force, coming in telling us all how you aren't giving any more money to Amazon in any form - not just the game studio - all because they won't listen to you.
You literally said that you are no longer giving money to one the the biggest companies on the planet, because one of their more insignificant divisions won't listen to what you have to say about one of their products.
Now you are just trying to make yourself look like less of a child by saying events that happened after you made that call are also a part of the reason.
Transparent as glass, my friend.
The reasonable response for you to make two weeks ago when asked if your reaction wasn't perhaps a bit over the top would be to just say that yes it was, we are all susceptible to a bit of hyperbole on occasion, and this was your occasion. We would have all laughed and carried on with our day.
Now though, the best thing for you to do would be to apologize and say that your account must have somehow got hacked.
The only reason this is an issue - or more a source of entertainment for several people - is because you doubled down on the statement, and also essentially mocked others for not having the same stance as you. You can't go back on that now, or provide "other reasons" for your stance now (especially not ones that happened after you said it).
All you can do is take your own statement of "I am not giving any of Amazon any more of my money because they - as one of the largest companies on the planet - wouldn't listen to me" and either double down again (triple down?) that this is your stance, immaturity of it and all. Either that, or you can say that this isn't your stance, and you yourself were mistaken and perhaps had a two week long period of hyperbole (or an account hack). Either way, it is too late to attempt to introduce other potential reasons for your stance in to the discussion - and again, especially ones that happened after you made the statement.
I'm glad someone caught the remark. I've got no beef with PvP games (I'll probably go and play some War Thunder after writing this), or PvP elements within MMOs, but it's the way the PvP (and generally yes, the PK crowd), approach the topic. It actually becomes very funny and cliche at times. Kinda along the lines of:
Developer: Our game is a co-operative farming simulator roughly based on 19th century France.
Passing PK: Where's the full-loot? Can I kill anyone? No? Well your game SUCKS.
Developer: Er, that's not what the game is about.
Passing PK: Well it SHOULD BE! You have no idea what people want! Add it to the game or I WON'T PLAY*!
(*And by "play", they mean dabble with the game for two months, slagging it off the whole time, until the next big shiny appears on the horizon and they leave, never to return. Like they were never there at all, actually.)
Yup, and not only that... it's indiscriminate. They're in every forum of every MMO under development, pushing their case. Whether the game in question would really suit their demands or not. That's the part that always gets me, and which I was poking a bit of fun at in my little role-play. It's like it doesn't matter what the game itself is about, there's just this non-stop vibe of, I-wanna-kill-people-and-if-you-don't-let-me-then-you-and-your-game-suck!
It could be possible people try to *trick* you into killing them while not having any mats, not sure what happens then.
But you forget that traveling is a thing in AoC. No teleports or things like that. So if you're farming in a far away spot and you engaged someone else on PVP because they want your mobs, they have all the reasons to fight back.
They could not, giving you corruption, but they also lose time/materials.
Also, the way you present your idea of PvP is not very good. You want to kill people without consequences. Even if society would allow that, there's always Eye for an eye.
So yeah, Intrepid is actually making you accountable for your actions, which I find it's great.
It makes no sense. Under no circumstance people would refuse to fight. You have to protect yourself.
People keep making this huge deal about gankers when they're not a reality. They will be there, but there will be also bounty hunters.
If someone is red, they get corruption, bounty hunters, drop their gear.
They're losing equal or even more gear/time than you do.
Without PvP there will be no conflict.
I just don't get why people can't accept that this is a PvP game, and keep trying to force their way of playing. Thank god Steven is out keeping his word.
You want PvE? There are other games that have that.
Those games are themeparks, the story is laid out for you and you're just a passive agent that consumes such story.
AoC is a living world, the story created by its player.
You telling me you got ganked and lost that extremely rare material?
That is enough reason for your guild to declare war and start harassing the other guild.
It's all about risk vs reward.
Your guildies want that sweet xp farming spot? You better fight for it.
Intrepid have an action they desire you to take, but they do not wish to force you to take that activity.
As such, they set up a basic penalty/reward structure to encourage the action they want you to take, but without forcing the issue.
This is good game design.
If you do not wish to play a game where players can attack you, and you choosing to not fight back will result in greater penalties for yourself, then Ashes isn't for you.
you never played tibia?
do you intend to play a necromancer?