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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
I can somewhat understand the appeal but it's so niche that it's hard to get a decent playerbase together to make it work.
Agreed. This is the main problem.
PvP tend to bring out the most immature man children in games.
New World still has PvP...
The PVP is scheduled from what I've gathered from their official channels.
So there will be a set time to start and time to stop those PVP events.
Also, you shouldn't view PVP as negative. It builds character and adds to the flavor of world-building IMO.
New world will still have PvP but the hardocore PvP rules (full loot + free PvP) has removed.
Evaluation of New World's PvP: https://newworld.com/en-us/news/articles/the-evolution-of-new-worlds-pvp
This is incorrect as there are several games with persistent server worlds full pvp full drop items. Though it is very fair to say these are niche titles with much smaller audiences in the later life of the games.
There's usually quite an active community on release, but it's almost always in your best intrest to eliminate other groups who could be a threat, so you start seeing dead servers or zones, where one group is on top and noone has any chance to retaliate (ie play the game
I think as long as Ashes team enforce and ban any all hack user and very strict on this. Because any game with is player vs player.... call of duty, battlefront star wars, division....
Will always be some player trying cheat system and hack.
Enforcement need to be very strong and swift and not fall for " false positive " lies
I agree that full loot PvP games are a niche but I guess some games does that better than others. Albion Online is a good example when something has done well, at least if we examine the popularity. Fractured has also a good potential to cater hardcore PvP and PvE centric players in the same concept. I understand Amazon's struggle with the full loot and how it caused too much toxicity. If I compare New World and Albion, in Albion there is also lower level PvE zones so people are at least in some cases safe, and in addition, Albion is more group oriented than New World what it comes to open world activities.
Name one.
EvE doesn't have full loot, nor full PvP - there are more safe areas in EvE than in Ashes. Also, with how large the world is, PvP is far from a given - it happens every few months, but when it does, it happens on a large scale.
Albion Online doesn't have full loot or full PvP (more often than not, a PvP "death" isn't even a death).
Darkfall is a mess.
What else is there?
The question was about full PvP full loot.
Neither game has that.
No game will ever have that.
Albion Online does have full PvP Full loot if i remember correctly.
Atlas, Ark, Rust, Conan Exiles, Contaminated, most recently there's Last Oasis. There are a few others too. It's a pretty common genre actually. With a community that jumps between games as they fall out of populatity.
Albion Online has full PvP full loot drop in certain zones. From what I understand when New World had full PvP full loot drop they did it for literally the entire world. The devs were then surprised that higher level players were spawn-camping newbies in the starting zones......
As Noaani said, there is no game that has had full PvP full loot drop everywhere and survived to prosper.
Eh, I think you two are trying to morph your argument.
It looks like you were agreeing that full loot pvp was too niche and when ferryman pointed out some games that had it you, changed to no game can have full loot pvp everywhere. I don't see this distinction being made earlier and find it kind of knit picky.
*shrugs* Nobody clarified what "full loot pvp" meant so technically we aren't morphing anything. You assumed we meant the same as you did, but we didn't.
Can you blame a developer for striving for a bigger audience? Like I said before full drop loot pvp is very niche and if a developer doesn't think they can draw in enough players to keep the game running they will change things.
The only titles (including the ones you listed in an earlier post) are all self styled survival games.
A survival game is not an MMORPG. They are different in terms of genre in the same way MOBA's are a different genre to RTS games.
Atlas is currently the only survival game I know of that is branding itself as both a survival game and an MMORPG, and it is losing players faster than it is gaining them - and it has not even launched yet.
That game is a perfect example of why a game can't be both an MMO and a survival game at the same time - they are different audiences. Eventually, every game will need to decide if it want's to be a survival game or an MMORPG.
If people want a survival game, there are plenty of them out there.
Ashes is not a survival game, nor has it ever claimed to be one.
As it has been said, i don't think it's as niche as you think. We have MMOs that have full loot. Survival games have decent audience and they are basically one persistent server away from being an MMO.
We will have to see how it pans out but I can see a risk with the move. Instead of going for an under-served audience, they are going for the audience that current MMOs cater to and if there is one thing we have learned, it's hard to get people to leave their MMOs. They will have to provide a very unique gaming experience to get people to move. They are also doing this with a new IP so they can't crutch on fans from previous media.
We will have to see. I just hope they did the move because they thought it would be better for the game and not because they think it would get them more money.
I don't think anyone is asking for Ashes to become a survival game or implement full loot, at least in this thread.
Just because a feature can work in a MMO doesn't mean ashes needs/should incorporate it.
@Wandering Mist Oh 100% no, PVE will aways net a bigger haul. It's their game to develop as they feel fit after all.
@mcstackerson Oh i don't think anyone here is wanting that. I'd love to have weather effects have some bearing on combat, or our stats, but going the full food, water dealy just ends up being tedious, or ignored.
Local server mode
100 player per server limit
Dev kit inclusion.
I consider each of these things individually to exclude a game from being an MMO if any one is present.
Every game you listed contained at least one of these - except Atlas.
I fully agree with you that Atlas will launch. Consoles are not going to save it though, as it is already on consoles, and players (at least Xbox players) are leaving the game even faster than PC players as they are at a massive disadvantage (control issues, render issues, communication issues).
So, the game will launch, but I give it 18 months before it has either closed it's servers (potentially leaving the game open for local server play), or has drastically rebranded itself similar to how Archeage rebranded itself.
It won't turn a profit in it's current state though.
This has been my argument right from the start (well before this thread started).
If PvP is left unchecked in any game where the developers have a desire for players to exist that are not solely PvP focused (ie, any game with complex PvE), then the game will not be a success in that state.
Either the PvP needs to be given focus, or the PvE needs to be given focus. Both can not exist. Again, this is if PvP is left unchecked (aka, full PvP).
100% agree with this statement.
Tell that to Epic.
PvE will net a bigger haul in a persistent world. PvP will net a bigger haul in a non-persistent world.
All niche games because who wants to invest multiple hours of effort only to have a group of players kill you and strip your lifeless corpse of all your effort? It's been a while since I have played a full loot pvp mmo and probably will never get around to it since it requires so much time investment. You harvest, craft and just when you're ready to go out and hunt other players a zerg rolls over you and takes everything. Escape from Tarkov comes to mind and I played it for a day and decided it wasn't the game for me. ArcheAge, however, was actually extremely fun when stealing trade packs from other players (faction or same faction) and had a decent karma system in place but the jail time really wasn't a big factor in choosing to flag or not. Heck, sometimes you could talk or pay your way out of your trial and get a clean slate. Best system I have seen in an MMO thus far though.
Here is a link to a reddit post of just a few games with full loot (and full-ish). Only full loot games I can think of are Rust, Last Oasis and Ark.
Full loot is not a great concept because time and effort are something most players think about when it comes to the system.
The first is that there are a few isometric MMO's in there. These games are made by very small teams in comparison to a full scale, full 3D MMO, and require less infrastructure to run. They can afford to have a smaller playerbase than a AAA MMO. I've not looked any deeper in to any of these games, as just knowing the game is being developed on such a skeleton crew is enough to put me off.
Next there are games that claim to have full PvP, but have systems in place similar to that of Ashes. Profane is a good example here, if you consider that game to have full PvP, then so does Ashes (not sure about full loot with Profane as yet though, I assume it will be higher than Ashes, but not by much).
Then there are games where the only way to survive is to join a mega guild. These are the games that have attempted to hold on to too much of the MMO genre while making a survival game, and are the ones that simply will not last as they are now.
They are the example to hold up when saying full PvP full loot can not work in a persistent game world.
Edit to add; in regards to Archeage, I spent 3 years as the only full time pirate on my server, spending most of my time farming land in Auroria. To me, scrubs fighting over packs on the two main continents were exactly that, scrubs fighting over packs (no offense).
Fighting on the main continent meant you always had safety only a few minutes away. Farming on Auroria though, it means everyone knew where I would be, that I would be alone and without backup (literally only person in my faction) and that I had no safe areas. Even when Trion made players own land safe for them, it didn't apply in Auroria.
The crime point system in Archeage was good, but not perfect. Being able to talk/bribe your way out of a jail sentence was good, but the system had one major flaw. The game needed to make guards attack players with a high crime point total (100 would be where I would have put it). This would have meant there were real consequences to gaining crime points, rather than just a slap on the wrist. It would have meant that players would have often looked at potential packs they could steal and decide they were not worth the cost, whereas the way Archeage was set up, it was always worth the time to at least attempt to take people on that had packs - there were no substantive negatives.
This is where Ashes is improving on the system. You could look at corruption as replacing crime points, and dropping the trial/jail aspect of it and replacing it with potential item drops and inability to access essential services in towns. Now, I personally would like to see a trial/jail system added on top of that as well, but that is just me.