What worries you the most about the project?

Even if we are a small minority of the future playerbase, maybe we can give some insight on what worries us. In this way, atleast we made our voices heard so the devs can consider our concerns. I'll start:

1. Im afraid the game will feel shallow and the progression too linear because the IS are stressed to finish the progress and won't have time to make it gameplay deep. interesting and engaging.

2. Im afraid the classes will be to similar in an impossible persuit of balance. I don't want every class/spec to have a stun, an AOE heal, a cleance ability. I want unique toolkits and diverse classes. Even if the cost is slight imbalance.

3. Im afraid PvP and PVE gear will be RNG based. I love working hard in PVP to earn/craft/purchase my gear pieces one by one. Working hard for a month to finaly earn/craft/purchase that staff feels amazing. Randomly getting it after 1 day or 1 year from pure casino RNG feels like utter dogshit.

4. Im afraid crafted gear will be obsolete and useless in comparison to gear you get from bosses. Crafted gear should have the potential to be just as good as any other top tier gear.

5. Im very afraid a stale meta will form, full of cookie cutter builds that are superior to other builds. For example a two-handed fighter/rogue being statisticly and numericly superior in almost everyway over a fighter/mage.

What are you worried about?

Find more posts tagged with

Comments

Corpier

I think a lot of what concerns OP isn't likely to be an issue.
In response:
1. I doubt that will be a problem since Intrepid has shown no past history of rushing to meet deadlines. In fact, there is a precedent of delays and setting later deadlines in order to ensure a quality product.

2. Fair. With a number as large as 64 for classes and a vast selection of augments I could see some of the modifiers being effectively similar and therefore less meaningful. I hope at least the 8 base archtypes will have unique toolkits that feel and play differently, and that Intrepid will ensure modifiers like secondary class and augments have a quality that feels impactful instead of pushing for quantity to meet quotas. Hopefully each modification of a base archtypes will make it more unique instead of every class having the same options. If every class gets different augments this could be avoided, but not if they all get the same options it could lead to homogenization not just within classes but between them when min/maxing if everyone chooses things like taking the stuns and self heals for pvp and extra damage buffs for pve.

3. Don't quote me, but I believe I've seen it said before that Steven prefers for things to be effort based rather than rng based. Iirc, which I might not be correctly recalling, an example given was something like a guild mount or legendary weapon that could be crafted or earned based on cumulative effort of a guild and not simply by lucking into it.

4. I don't know for sure. I'm sure someone will pull some quote from the wiki if I'm wrong, but from what I understand, even if some super rare boss dropped gear was better than crafted gear, player crafters will be able to deconstruct the dropped gear, gain a blueprint, and then start making just as good crafted gear with the right materials.

5. Every game has a meta and best in slot. Whether the meta will become stale depends on how often Intrepid patches the game, releases new content, and whether that patch or content changes the meta. While not all content update are guaranteed to change the meta, I think Intrepid has previously said they plan to release new content quarterly after launch. If I'm being honest, I would be more skeptical about a meta changing too often than not often enough. If meta becomes stale, players just take a break until it changes. I've played games where the meta changed drastically every 3 months and all the work done to gear up and perfect a build could get wiped out by a balance change barely after a build was finished, which can result in rage quits if players don't want to start from scratch repeatedly and often. It also depends on the meta. A bad meta can become unwelcome on patch day, while a good meta can go 6+ months with the majority of players being content with it.

Personally, regarding bis/cookie cutter builds, I don't mind there being an optimal way of doing things. Just because there is a best doesn't mean other things can't be strong. Cookie cutter metas can be mitigated by fluid balance from things like rock/paper/scissors dynamics that create relative bests, and having the 2nd best option be not far behind the best in effectiveness. Which coupled with having a situational best can create situations where what is best against one enemy might be 3rd best or worse against another.

As for what concerns me, I'm concerned that the node system will encourage players to settle and stay in a small area of the world, while indirectly discouraging players from participating in content elsewhere in the world due to missing out on the benefits from investing in a home node. Also, I'm concerned about how a constantly changing world could end up feeling very repetitive or similar due to the difficulty that would be involved in creating complex and interesting scenarios/quests/encounters for a multitude of locations and world states.

George_Black

I am afraid that Dual Wield will not be a true option. Last time I enjoyed DW was LineAge2 and Tera Online. Since then, many mmorpgs didnt even have DW skill lines or classes, or 2h was always better than DW. By far.

grisu

No API support and no damage meter.
I want my fun macros and text macros for rp, i want customizable visuals of the ui and I want to have fun with stats.
Having a complex stat system as well as compelling hardcore raiding without any data collection options does not go hand in hand for me. WoW had it's flaws and balance issues, but every class had at least one build that was in similar strength to the others, so raiding was always an option with everyone and it was always a compelling difficulty that pushed you to become better as a certain class and crank out a little more of yourself.

I am not convinced that they can achieve that borderline level of balance with what they propose to do. Customized skill sets, multitude of augments(including 2ndary class choice), multitude of stat combinations as well as who knows how many different stats they want to introduce in the first place to accommodate all the materials introduced for crafters to play with and so on.

I would like them to prove me wrong, but I don't think that every single company up till now failed at it just because they are to lazy to do it and a lot of them are far far simpler than what Ashes proposes. Math is hard and with more complexity comes a power of added difficulty.

I am not convinced.

Wong

Marzzo wrote: »

Even if we are a small minority of the future playerbase, maybe we can give some insight on what worries us. In this way, atleast we made our voices heard so the devs can consider our concerns. I'll start:

1. Im afraid the game will feel shallow and the progression too linear because the IS are stressed to finish the progress and won't have time to make it gameplay deep. interesting and engaging.

2. Im afraid the classes will be to similar in an impossible persuit of balance. I don't want every class/spec to have a stun, an AOE heal, a cleance ability. I want unique toolkits and diverse classes. Even if the cost is slight imbalance.

3. Im afraid PvP and PVE gear will be RNG based. I love working hard in PVP to earn/craft/purchase my gear pieces one by one. Working hard for a month to finaly earn/craft/purchase that staff feels amazing. Randomly getting it after 1 day or 1 year from pure casino RNG feels like utter dogshit.

4. Im afraid crafted gear will be obsolete and useless in comparison to gear you get from bosses. Crafted gear should have the potential to be just as good as any other top tier gear.

5. Im very afraid a stale meta will form, full of cookie cutter builds that are superior to other builds. For example a two-handed fighter/rogue being statisticly and numericly superior in almost everyway over a fighter/mage.

What are you worried about?

1. I don't see how progression will be linear with all that is going on with the main systems. Now regarding it being interesting and engaging, that remains to be seen, but i've been hearing very good things about the PI tests.
2. I don't see how classes become too similar unless the archetypes are designed to be similar (tank being similar to summoner, which sounds ridiculous). Augments give flavor/horizontal progression to players, not extra skills from the secondary class.
3. There is no PvP gear specifically better when used in PvP. I am a bit confused as to what you mean by RNG.. If you get that staff drop from a dungeon of the first try then you are lucky. Personally, i have 0 luck with drops in other games.
4. Crafting, gathering and processing are one of the main systems that drive the game. If they are obsolete then so will a big part of the game, which i don't think IS will let happen. Steven has previously said that crafted gear is going to be on par with top tier gear. That being said, you'd need to find that high level tier sword recipe to be able to craft it, you can't just buy it from a vendor for 15 shekels.
5. They addressed that on one of the recent streams. There will be metas, but they are highly situational. Characters being able to use any weapon and armor provides a lot of flexibility as well - remember, weapons have weapon skill tree lines, so the more you use it, the more you specialize and better you become with it. Now, whether the final game has a variety of different dungeons that don't just require a tank to taunt the boss, that remains to be seen, but until we see a fuller version of the game there is really no grounds to suggest that. Again, secondary classes only provide horizontal progression in the form of skill augments, they don't give you extra stats, extra critical hit chance, extra damage or extra skills.

Nagash

The lack of playable undead has me really worried to be honest. I mean I sent them the tip months ago and I have had no news yet

Jamation

Corpier wrote: »

As for what concerns me, I'm concerned that the node system will encourage players to settle and stay in a small area of the world, while indirectly discouraging players from participating in content elsewhere in the world due to missing out on the benefits from investing in a home node.

I've been a little worried about this too. Since most of us on the forums will probably be playing at the start of the game, many of us will be investing our time and energy into cultivating a node for capture so that we can purchase land and such in that city for the prospect of it growing into a metropolis. But I know they've mentioned that mobs will scale so if these cities are near starting zones, as they naturally would most likely be, how far away would a person need to travel to find content for their level? Within their node? A few nodes away? How far from home would I have to travel on a regular basis? Eventually I feel like I'd either feel like I'm away from the node too much and feel forced into residency at a smaller further node, losing my claim to rewards from being one of the beginners in the formation of the big city. Or I'd stop traveling out so far and feel constricted to a certain region of the map in order to maintain a reasonable distance from my node in case of an attack, to visit home, or drop off supplies, etc.

But I haven't been in the game and haven't seen how this'll work yet so who knows. Maybe it'll work out.

Grimthar

I worry...

1) the combat system won't be fun
2) each settlement node will feel like all the others
3) pvp gets in the way of playing pve
4) classes aren't fun to experience or play.

toshito

Even though I know most of the mechanics that Steven, Margaret and Jeff presented, just like the caravans system, the 5 metropolis nodes, the castle nodes (for guilds), all that stuff. I still can't get around my head, wich mechanics prevents if a whole server decides to make just one super node. Perhaps its a very extreme idea, but still, there should be some mechanics in place to avoid that from happening no? Perhaps I am missinformed, something is lacking in my knowledge.

Marzzo

toshito wrote: »

Even though I know most of the mechanics that Steven, Margaret and Jeff presented, just like the caravans system, the 5 metropolis nodes, the castle nodes (for guilds), all that stuff. I still can't get around my head, wich mechanics prevents if a whole server decides to make just one super node. Perhaps its a very extreme idea, but still, there should be some mechanics in place to avoid that from happening no? Perhaps I am missinformed, something is lacking in my knowledge.

By super node do you mean like a level 5 metropolis city node? Then what?
I want a PVP node
You want a science node
My friend wants a trading node

People are different and there is not even 0.1% a server will agree on going all in on a node.
Someone guild will want power and make his own node.

When the leaders of that super node do a mistake, others will quickly leave the node for another one.

Marzzo

Nagash wrote: »

The lack of playable undead has me really worried to be honest. I mean I sent them the tip months ago and I have had no news yet

Worst case youw will have to settle for skins

Nagash

Marzzo wrote: »

Nagash wrote: »

The lack of playable undead has me really worried to be honest. I mean I sent them the tip months ago and I have had no news yet

Worst case youw will have to settle for skins

just the feeling of skin being wrapped around my bones *shudders*

unknown

This content has been removed.

Noaani

Tsukasa wrote: »

Time To Kill & Combat

In last livestream they've mentioned that glass cannon builds could get you killed in one shot.
Knowing the majority are going to max out their DPS because it's their role to do damage.

Where is the challenge in that? I want to do combos and utilize iframes and superarmors!!!

As a lifelong DPS player, it is our role to do as much DPS as possible.

However, I find I am always able to do more DPS while alive than while dead, so ensuring I am able to survive at least a few hits is all a part of a good DPS build - though this does depend on your specific situation and goals.

As for iframes and superarmor, that shit should stay in Capcom games. Fastest way to get the MMO crowd to leave an MMO is by dumbing it down to that level.

unknown

This content has been removed.

Noaani

Tsukasa wrote: »

I am sorry but you have to keep your mouth shut sometimes and not refute something without experience, you don't have to comment. It's frustrating already that no one has ever even talked about these values. They are meant for action combat so I assume it's too early right now.

They are meant for a specific type of action combat - not for all action combat.

They wouldn't work in a hybrid system. At all.

Varkun

My only real fear is that Intrepid will change their mind and not have OCE servers.

George_Black

Tsukasa wrote: »

Time To Kill & Combat

In last livestream they've mentioned that glass cannon builds could get you killed in one shot.
Knowing the majority are going to max out their DPS because it's their role to do damage.

Where is the challenge in that? I want to do combos and utilize iframes and superarmors!!!

This is the instanced mmorpg mentality, with dungeon runs and pvp allowed zones via group finder.

In an open world (PvX) there is no such thing as dps. You are a DD (damage dealer). You need to realize that you are not in a sterilized environment such as a dungeon run. You need to spec for the possibility of PvP during PvE.
If you dont change your way of playing, and you stick with the glass cannon which will yield you diminishing returns in terms of progressing faster with better dps, you will find yourself not necessarily 1shoted, but not geared to perform in an open world mmorpg.

1 tank + 1 support + 6 nukers may progress faster in theory, but
1 tank + healer + support + some brawlers and some nukers will manage to protect themselves or dispatch other players during leveling up, raiding, looking for gear materials or questing.

Ravudha

The chance (even though the devs are tackling it) we end up with a lack of gear diversity and few BIS items that everyone goes for.

Wandering Mist

In the Ashes Pathfinders podcast we discussed quite a few potential pitfalls that the game might have with certain mechanics, such as the caravans and player housing. Steven was hanging out in the chat and said they are aware of the pitfalls that could occur and that they will be looking carefully at the systems at play.

The main concern I have is actually with the 8-man groups.

Noaani

Wandering Mist wrote: »

The main concern I have is actually with the 8-man groups.

This is actually quite fair.

8 man groups will either be the best thing about Ashes, or the worst.

Thing is, this is mostly up to us players to make work, imo.

Child Item