I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
Indeed.
It is worth noting that for most of the time you are online, most of the people you see will be "on your side", in that you are all working towards leveling and/or maintaining the same cluster of nodes. These are the people you will group with, raid with and trade with, and the number of people that will be in that node cluster will indeed be small enough that people will remember those that that have done wrong by them.
Once the game has settled in, the players that aren't going to stick around past the first month have gone and people start understanding how things are, for players that want to avoid being attacked, if you stick to your general node cluster (which will be around 20% of the game world) and you generally get on with people, you'll maybe find yourself attacked outside of caravan/war/siege systems maybe once a month.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
Indeed.
It is worth noting that for most of the time you are online, most of the people you see will be "on your side", in that you are all working towards leveling and/or maintaining the same cluster of nodes. These are the people you will group with, raid with and trade with, and the number of people that will be in that node cluster will indeed be small enough that people will remember those that that have done wrong by them.
Once the game has settled in, the players that aren't going to stick around past the first month have gone and people start understanding how things are, for players that want to avoid being attacked, if you stick to your general node cluster (which will be around 20% of the game world) and you generally get on with people, you'll maybe find yourself attacked outside of caravan/war/siege systems maybe once a month.
once a month...most open world pvp games have whole zones get locked down every few hours where nothing at all can progress.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
Indeed.
It is worth noting that for most of the time you are online, most of the people you see will be "on your side", in that you are all working towards leveling and/or maintaining the same cluster of nodes. These are the people you will group with, raid with and trade with, and the number of people that will be in that node cluster will indeed be small enough that people will remember those that that have done wrong by them.
Once the game has settled in, the players that aren't going to stick around past the first month have gone and people start understanding how things are, for players that want to avoid being attacked, if you stick to your general node cluster (which will be around 20% of the game world) and you generally get on with people, you'll maybe find yourself attacked outside of caravan/war/siege systems maybe once a month.
once a month...most open world pvp games have whole zones get locked down every few hours where nothing at all can progress.
Some do, not most.
Those games have one of two things in common - either there is a reason for players to do this, or there is no reason for players to not do this.
Ashes doesn't fit either of these.
2
prymortalMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited July 2020
Frankly PVE only server isn't what you should be asking for, it is More or Acceptable protection while doing PVE.
Since PVP'ers claim PVP is its own reward & that they claim they want "Real PVP", a friendly reminder ganking is not real pvp (RIP 2 people already commented here). PVE'ers always first to go, then the gankers who get ganked by slightly larger zergs, then that left over zergs who no body can be bothered playing with goes to the "next big mmo" which turns out to be bless rebranded (don't laugh you know its literally out right now!) I see you guys on these Forums & the Discord! & some stream snipers also some....
Acceptable Protection specifically when not flagged could be a few things but literally the only one to not put PVE'ers off:
- No item loss on death from PVP if you don't flag (This including gathering/fishing & especially at boss drop ganks - depending on how loot is done).
- Just to honestly back this up, this is not just PVE protection its also Side Progression protection & there as are still ways to lose those items with the current doubling down, it's a safe fix as Caravans would still be risk/reward for those items & removes the double down (im)balance
This is the only major protection I can see going off Wiki info that's required to keep the PVE & PVX player base alive. Removes a lot of the "Want/Need" for a PVE server. Outside of RP'ers.....Who will cry & ERP in it anyway.
Keep in mind I have not really followed the development since 2018?, This could already be a thing in game, just the wiki suggests otherwise.
Frankly PVE only server isn't what you should be asking for, it is More or Acceptable protection while doing PVE.
Since PVP'ers claim PVP is its own reward & that they claim they want "Real PVP", a friendly reminder ganking is not real pvp (RIP 2 people already commented here). PVE'ers always first to go, then the gankers who get ganked by slightly larger zergs, then that left over zergs who no body can be bothered playing with goes to the "next big mmo" which turns out to be bless rebranded (don't laugh you know its literally out right now!) I see you guys on these Forums & the Discord! & some stream snipers also 2 known Chinese Script ("Hax") buyers.
Acceptable Protection specifically when not flagged could be a few things but literally the only one to not put PVE'ers off:
- No item loss on death from PVP if you don't flag (This including gathering/fishing & especially at boss drop ganks - depending on how loot is done).
- Just to honestly back this up, this is not just PVE protection its also Side Progression protection & there as are still ways to lose those items with the current doubling down, it's a safe fix as Caravans would still be risk/reward for those items & removes the double down (im)balance
This is the only major protection I can see going off Wiki info that's required to keep the PVE & PVX player base alive. Removes a lot of the "Want/Need" for a PVE server. Outside of RP'ers.....Who will cry & ERP in it anyway.
Keep in mind I have not really followed the development since 2018?, This could already be a thing in game, just the wiki suggests otherwise.
The developers have been very clear, PvP is a part of the game and it is here to stay. Ganking someone, if you mean killing and attacking an innocent person, even if they are outnumbered or weaker, isn't griefing. It's PvP. You're allowed to do it for a reason, and the punishment is cumulative for a reason. That person could harass/troll without flagging, they could be a spy, they could be FULL of mats, etc etc. There's plenty of reasons to kill someone who is seemingly weaker/defenseless at least once, without it being griefing in even the slightest. You didn't do anything with the purpose of upsetting someone and you didn't abuse any game mechanics to do it.
The definition of griefing is "A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
Also your suggestion of no item loss on death for unflagged people is obscenely OP. The game is PvX and designed around risk vs reward. What risk is involved if I go out and farm mats and never flag? No one would ever be able to stop me from doing anything, only temporarily slow me down. I'll just keep getting more and more mats that no one can ever take away from me if I just never flag.
Caravans are chosen activities by the transporter ... So just stockpile mats forever without any risk, and only transport them when you have a huge army defending a caravan.
"We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay." – Steven Sharif
"Since PVP'ers claim PVP is its own reward & that they claim they want "Real PVP", a friendly reminder ganking is not real pvp"
Ganking...by definition is player attacking another player. Or more precisely players attacking player. So seems to fit PvP pretty well. PvE players gank mobs all the time. Being ganked is always a choice that you the player makes. Going out solo for whatever reason almost always means you will be out numbered. So you either create a build with that in mind or you play smart. However people seem to just cry instead.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
but that ruins the game...
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
Yes I agree if you get the correct player base, then the game sounds awesome.
But if you have ever tried to finish an escort quest or mine a node , on a heavy open world PVP server its not fun to get ganked over and over just trying to level your character or proffession.
From the description of the game its a PVX where every part of the game matters, but it seems to be mainly PVP fixated.
If they can get the balance right it will be a game I will play
Frankly PVE only server isn't what you should be asking for, it is More or Acceptable protection while doing PVE.
Since PVP'ers claim PVP is its own reward & that they claim they want "Real PVP", a friendly reminder ganking is not real pvp (RIP 2 people already commented here). PVE'ers always first to go, then the gankers who get ganked by slightly larger zergs, then that left over zergs who no body can be bothered playing with goes to the "next big mmo" which turns out to be bless rebranded (don't laugh you know its literally out right now!) I see you guys on these Forums & the Discord! & some stream snipers also some....
Acceptable Protection specifically when not flagged could be a few things but literally the only one to not put PVE'ers off:
- No item loss on death from PVP if you don't flag (This including gathering/fishing & especially at boss drop ganks - depending on how loot is done).
- Just to honestly back this up, this is not just PVE protection its also Side Progression protection & there as are still ways to lose those items with the current doubling down, it's a safe fix as Caravans would still be risk/reward for those items & removes the double down (im)balance
This is the only major protection I can see going off Wiki info that's required to keep the PVE & PVX player base alive. Removes a lot of the "Want/Need" for a PVE server. Outside of RP'ers.....Who will cry & ERP in it anyway.
Keep in mind I have not really followed the development since 2018?, This could already be a thing in game, just the wiki suggests otherwise.
Here is a snippet of the current corruption system.
A non-combatant (green player) who dies suffers normal penalties, which include:
Experience debt (negative experience).
Skill and stat dampening.
Lower health and mana.
Lower gear proficiency.
Durability loss.
Dropping a percentage of carried raw materials.
This includes a percentage of items carried on the player's mule.
This also includes a percentage of the certificates a player is carrying.
A combatant (purple player) who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the rate of a non-combatant
So, remaining unflagged if someone attacks you, you're actually losing MORE than if you had fought back. This is to prevent people from just never fighting back and invalidating PvP. This smart approach to prevent griefing and also prevent avoiding legit PvP entirely, is what gives me such confidence in Steven's vision.
0
darthadenMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
This game doesnt need a pve only server. If you dont wish to engage in pvp your chances of getting involved in pvp will be very minimal. Aside from the obvious corruption penalties there's another strong deterrent for ganking as long as your not being a jerk. Most player will spend most of their time leveling in their home node since it's in their best interest to contribute xp to their node........its also in their best interest for you to contribute xp to their home node. Killing you keeps you from helping their home node grow.
The last thing an open world pvper wants is a fair fight.
True, I want to be outnumbered and challenge myself. Im not necessarily interested in ganking random pve'ers though.
Ive played both ends of the spectrum in full loot pvp games and I enjoyed anti rpk and protecting noobs etc way more than killing anything that moves.
These systems allow for so much freedom of play when it comes to guilds and their identities.
If you keep wanting PvE server only you don't really understand how the game works and how people work.
People will disagree, create conflict and go to war.
You say you will get ganked while farming. What if you are trying to farm in a PvE server and 20 players come and take all the farming mats? What is your retaliation? Write at them "please go, I was here first" ?
In PvP server you would call your allies and tell them "yo, these people are looting my ground, let's kill them". Suddenly a war started.
If you keep wanting PvE server only you don't really understand how the game works and how people work.
People will disagree, create conflict and go to war.
You say you will get ganked while farming. What if you are trying to farm in a PvE server and 20 players come and take all the farming mats? What is your retaliation? Write at them "please go, I was here first" ?
In PvP server you would call your allies and tell them "yo, these people are looting my ground, let's kill them". Suddenly a war started.
On pve servers you farmed with clases like a druid who could move fast and cc or mage same reason or a hunter and put your pet on the mobs and take the node and leave. The other classes were stuck having to clear the mobs to get the nodes. Or a rogue collects all the mobs drags them into your aoe and drops aggro and poof you have 12 mobs on you while he takes all the nodes.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
This is the single worst way to do PvP systems. Either have PvP on at all times in an MMORPG, or don't have it at all. This half-assed way is a great way to destroy a game.
I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
This is the single worst way to do PvP systems. Either have PvP on at all times in an MMORPG, or don't have it at all. This half-assed way is a great way to destroy a game.
MMO's that remove PvP die. I'll never understand why people sign up for a game that promotes open world pvp and then seriously suggest its removal. . . . . . . .
MMO's that remove PvP die. I'll never understand why people sign up for a game that promotes open world pvp and then seriously suggest its removal. . . . . . . .
Entitlement, and they're used to getting what they want because so far game-devs have proven they value profit over integrity.
MMO's that remove PvP die. I'll never understand why people sign up for a game that promotes open world pvp and then seriously suggest its removal. . . . . . . .
No idea man. All we know is that anti PvPer's exist and they hate PvP and those who enjoy it. Over the next 16 or so months until release they will only arrive more and more and more. Almost all games cave to them.
Comments
My above post is relevant to you too.
Just going from experience on Classic WOW PVP server when P2 hit you couldn't move, unless you went anywhere as a group of 5 or more.
I played Vanilla WOW on a PVP server and it wasn't as bad as it is now, back then you even had the opposite faction help you sometimes.
I think gaming has changed when it comes to PVP , or maybe I'm just getting old ;0
Sorry
It's not your age. I think it's the type of game and the environment the mechanics of that game supports.
I don't see that happening in Ashes because of the content available and the systems put in place to balance that content, as well as corruption.
I'm pretty confident you'll be totally fine, despite not being able to toggle PvP off and on.
Indeed.
It is worth noting that for most of the time you are online, most of the people you see will be "on your side", in that you are all working towards leveling and/or maintaining the same cluster of nodes. These are the people you will group with, raid with and trade with, and the number of people that will be in that node cluster will indeed be small enough that people will remember those that that have done wrong by them.
Once the game has settled in, the players that aren't going to stick around past the first month have gone and people start understanding how things are, for players that want to avoid being attacked, if you stick to your general node cluster (which will be around 20% of the game world) and you generally get on with people, you'll maybe find yourself attacked outside of caravan/war/siege systems maybe once a month.
Full pve game are for wow player.
once a month...most open world pvp games have whole zones get locked down every few hours where nothing at all can progress.
Some do, not most.
Those games have one of two things in common - either there is a reason for players to do this, or there is no reason for players to not do this.
Ashes doesn't fit either of these.
Since PVP'ers claim PVP is its own reward & that they claim they want "Real PVP", a friendly reminder ganking is not real pvp (RIP 2 people already commented here). PVE'ers always first to go, then the gankers who get ganked by slightly larger zergs, then that left over zergs who no body can be bothered playing with goes to the "next big mmo" which turns out to be bless rebranded (don't laugh you know its literally out right now!) I see you guys on these Forums & the Discord! & some stream snipers also some....
Acceptable Protection specifically when not flagged could be a few things but literally the only one to not put PVE'ers off:
- No item loss on death from PVP if you don't flag (This including gathering/fishing & especially at boss drop ganks - depending on how loot is done).
- Just to honestly back this up, this is not just PVE protection its also Side Progression protection & there as are still ways to lose those items with the current doubling down, it's a safe fix as Caravans would still be risk/reward for those items & removes the double down (im)balance
This is the only major protection I can see going off Wiki info that's required to keep the PVE & PVX player base alive. Removes a lot of the "Want/Need" for a PVE server. Outside of RP'ers.....Who will cry & ERP in it anyway.
Keep in mind I have not really followed the development since 2018?, This could already be a thing in game, just the wiki suggests otherwise.
The developers have been very clear, PvP is a part of the game and it is here to stay. Ganking someone, if you mean killing and attacking an innocent person, even if they are outnumbered or weaker, isn't griefing. It's PvP. You're allowed to do it for a reason, and the punishment is cumulative for a reason. That person could harass/troll without flagging, they could be a spy, they could be FULL of mats, etc etc. There's plenty of reasons to kill someone who is seemingly weaker/defenseless at least once, without it being griefing in even the slightest. You didn't do anything with the purpose of upsetting someone and you didn't abuse any game mechanics to do it.
The definition of griefing is "A griefer or bad faith player is a player in a multiplayer video game who deliberately irritates and harasses other players within the game, using aspects of the game in unintended ways."
Also your suggestion of no item loss on death for unflagged people is obscenely OP. The game is PvX and designed around risk vs reward. What risk is involved if I go out and farm mats and never flag? No one would ever be able to stop me from doing anything, only temporarily slow me down. I'll just keep getting more and more mats that no one can ever take away from me if I just never flag.
Caravans are chosen activities by the transporter ... So just stockpile mats forever without any risk, and only transport them when you have a huge army defending a caravan.
"We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay." – Steven Sharif
Ganking...by definition is player attacking another player. Or more precisely players attacking player. So seems to fit PvP pretty well. PvE players gank mobs all the time. Being ganked is always a choice that you the player makes. Going out solo for whatever reason almost always means you will be out numbered. So you either create a build with that in mind or you play smart. However people seem to just cry instead.
Yes, this is true. We like the immersion of the battle in open world. Only an absolute fool would attack an enemy without being confident they'd win.
"Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win." - Sun Tzu
Yes I agree if you get the correct player base, then the game sounds awesome.
But if you have ever tried to finish an escort quest or mine a node , on a heavy open world PVP server its not fun to get ganked over and over just trying to level your character or proffession.
From the description of the game its a PVX where every part of the game matters, but it seems to be mainly PVP fixated.
If they can get the balance right it will be a game I will play
Here is a snippet of the current corruption system.
A non-combatant (green player) who dies suffers normal penalties, which include:
Experience debt (negative experience).
Skill and stat dampening.
Lower health and mana.
Lower gear proficiency.
Durability loss.
Dropping a percentage of carried raw materials.
This includes a percentage of items carried on the player's mule.
This also includes a percentage of the certificates a player is carrying.
A combatant (purple player) who dies suffers these same penalties, but at half the rate of a non-combatant
So, remaining unflagged if someone attacks you, you're actually losing MORE than if you had fought back. This is to prevent people from just never fighting back and invalidating PvP. This smart approach to prevent griefing and also prevent avoiding legit PvP entirely, is what gives me such confidence in Steven's vision.
True, I want to be outnumbered and challenge myself. Im not necessarily interested in ganking random pve'ers though.
Ive played both ends of the spectrum in full loot pvp games and I enjoyed anti rpk and protecting noobs etc way more than killing anything that moves.
These systems allow for so much freedom of play when it comes to guilds and their identities.
People will disagree, create conflict and go to war.
You say you will get ganked while farming. What if you are trying to farm in a PvE server and 20 players come and take all the farming mats? What is your retaliation? Write at them "please go, I was here first" ?
In PvP server you would call your allies and tell them "yo, these people are looting my ground, let's kill them". Suddenly a war started.
On pve servers you farmed with clases like a druid who could move fast and cc or mage same reason or a hunter and put your pet on the mobs and take the node and leave. The other classes were stuck having to clear the mobs to get the nodes. Or a rogue collects all the mobs drags them into your aoe and drops aggro and poof you have 12 mobs on you while he takes all the nodes.
This is the single worst way to do PvP systems. Either have PvP on at all times in an MMORPG, or don't have it at all. This half-assed way is a great way to destroy a game.
TRUTH
Entitlement, and they're used to getting what they want because so far game-devs have proven they value profit over integrity.
No idea man. All we know is that anti PvPer's exist and they hate PvP and those who enjoy it. Over the next 16 or so months until release they will only arrive more and more and more. Almost all games cave to them.
This is true, but the last thing a PvE'er wants is also a fair fight.
Everyone wants the advantage, so no need to hold that against the PvP'ers.
Not ture at all you know why so many pve servers are full of arena players? Yep because tons of pve players want exactly that a fair fight.
It won't happen. The game isn't intended as this. And it would destroy the immersion completely.
Forum version of open world pvp