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Pure PvE Server IDEA!

The Issue:

PvP is fun, but the option to just chill and not worry about other players ganking you is always a PLUS!

The Proposal:

Pure PvE Server

How:

Instead of players attacking nodes every so often, you have Open World Bosses attacking nodes that players will have to fight. Each level of node having a stronger World Boss or Bosses or Boss with minions to fight and a larger group of players required to defend?

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Comments

  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    This has been asked for before, and the answer was a resounding no.

    Rather than being an incidental aspect of Ashes, PvP is a core component. Sieges are one aspect in which it is important, but so are caravans, node and guild wars and even corruption based PvP.

    PvP is where the developers are adding most of the risk that players will face in regard to the risk vs reward mantra that most MMO's go for.

    On the other hand, there are already plans for world bosses to attack nodes - though even then, if a player is around that meets the requirements, they can take over the boss mob if they wish.
  • They've said there will be no PvE servers because PvP is a vital part of the game.
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    Eyeyamabe2 wrote: »
    Instead of players attacking nodes every so often, you have Open World Bosses attacking nodes that players will have to fight. Each level of node having a stronger World Boss or Bosses or Boss with minions to fight and a larger group of players required to defend?

    Already have that. The Invasion system. Like the one you saw on New World but open world. The PvE mobs were said to be able to delevel the node that they attacked but now they can only damage the node. They won't be able to delevel or destroy the node anymore.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Not going to happen. PVP is so built into most of the systems in the game that they are not going to change.
  • no, the game is made by pvp. it would get boring without any distinct way to destroy metropolises
  • Eyeyamabe2 wrote: »
    PvP is fun, but the option to just chill and not worry about other players ganking you is always a PLUS!

    Then you should likely look into other games less focused on risk vs. reward gameplay.

    You're asking for the dedication of a sizable amount of development time into something that a lot of the following of this game, as well as, it seems, the developers themselves, have very little if any interest in.

  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    You want to just chill out, go to your Freehold and relax. Do some gardening. Breed some animals. Should be relaxing enough.
  • I think people just get worried by the potential of PvP. If you're doing safe chill things I very much doubt you will experience PvP, unless something nuts goes down in which case ... That's exciting and a part of the game, and will likely be rare enough to not bother you.
  • No.
    Game is PvP.
    Honestly, you need to read about the game. If you take PvP out of the way, the game just breaks.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    No.
    Game is PvP.
    Honestly, you need to read about the game. If you take PvP out of the way, the game just breaks.

    While I am sure they won't they could change open world pvp to a flag method while leaving in seiges and transports and arenas and other types without changing much at all
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Suuuuure. And have you taken a look at the wiki? You will notice that the risk vs reward is all through the build. Take one pillar out and the whole thing comes crashing down.
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    No.
    Game is PvP.
    Honestly, you need to read about the game. If you take PvP out of the way, the game just breaks.

    While I am sure they won't they could change open world pvp to a flag method while leaving in seiges and transports and arenas and other types without changing much at all

    Why would you want this? What is the point?
    Where does the conflict come from?
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    BlackBrony wrote: »
    No.
    Game is PvP.
    Honestly, you need to read about the game. If you take PvP out of the way, the game just breaks.

    While I am sure they won't they could change open world pvp to a flag method while leaving in seiges and transports and arenas and other types without changing much at all

    Why would you want this? What is the point?
    Where does the conflict come from?

    I didn't say I wanted it, I said while it won't happen its fairly simple to do as someone said it would be impossible without redoing everything
  • BobbyBickBobbyBick Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Hard no, sorry. Expending dev time to try to implement PvE replacements for all the systems PvP covers would be a massive endeavor. At it's core, this is a PvP game with PvE elements, not the other way around.
  • JubilumJubilum Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    edited July 2020
    I'm not sure why everyone is so against having a couple servers out of several dozen with open world/non-consensual pvp turned off. I'm in no way suggesting eliminating meaningful pvp, like node sieges, guild v guild, castle sieges, battle grounds, arenas, even caravans.. I myself would not even play on a server without the meaningful pvp, it would get stale and boring very fast.

    It would be as simple as an on/off toggle at server end, or a flagging toggle at client end. This is what concerns me about this game the way people want to force people into a situation they have no interest in, just so they can have easy targets to get their jollies. This is not my idea of fun.
  • RahkstarRPGRahkstarRPG Member
    edited July 2020
    jubilum wrote: »
    I'm not sure why everyone is so against having a couple servers out of several dozen with open world/non-consensual pvp turned off. I'm in no way suggesting eliminating meaningful pvp, like node sieges, guild v guild, castle sieges, battle grounds, arenas, even caravans.. I myself would not even play on a server without the meaningful pvp, it would get stale and boring very fast.

    It would be as simple as an on/off toggle at server end, or a flagging toggle at client end. This is what concerns me about this game the way people want to force people into a situation they have no interest in, just so they can have easy targets to get their jollies. This is not my idea of fun.

    This isn't what OP suggested.

    OP suggested a server where PvP sieges were replaced by massive PvE content sieges.

    As I said, this would take away development time from the real game.

    I wouldn't really care about flagless servers, but it would likely result in complaints about balance and content not being focused towards them. Again, taking development time away from the real game.

    Lets actually finish the game the devs want to make before we start asking for that, if we really have to, please.
  • edited July 2020
    jubilum wrote: »
    I'm not sure why everyone is so against having a couple servers out of several dozen with open world/non-consensual pvp turned off. I'm in no way suggesting eliminating meaningful pvp, like node sieges, guild v guild, castle sieges, battle grounds, arenas, even caravans.. It would be as simple as an on/off toggle at server end, or a flagging toggle at client end. This is what concerns me about this game the way people want to force people into a situation they have no interest in, just so they can have easy targets to get their jollies. This is not my idea of fun.

    It's not that they're against it or that they want to force you to do anything or that they want easy targets.

    It's that the game is designed, specifically, around PvP and PvE because it is a PvX game. So removing those PvP systems unbalances the entire game to a point where it just wouldn't be playable.

    That's not to say that down the track, after launch, they find a way to make PvE servers (as well as PvP servers where there is no corruption)... But as far as development goes, the chances atm seem to be at 0, and it would only slow down the development of the game. It isn't as simple as on/off switch for PvP.

    "We like to really refer to ourselves as a PvX game, because in those systems of PvP, PvE, crafting they're all intertwined: They're interdependent on each other... Our system of development really requires some interdependence there between those things. You're going to need a crafter to give you the best items. You're going to need PvPers to secure cities and castles. You're gonna need PvErs to take down those world bosses for those materials to craft." - Steven Sharif

    "We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay." – Steven Sharif

    We can see by the way Steven describes the intertwined systems, that PvP and PvE are balanced around each other and are vital components of the game itself. I would even say that mingling of PvE and PvP is the game.
  • JubilumJubilum Member, Pioneer, Kickstarter
    Just to clarity I am in no suggesting that the core pvp mechanics be eliminated or modified in any way. Only that the open world/non-consensual pvp be turned off on a couple (2-3) servers out of the hundreds that will be active at launch.

    At this time I will not play the game without this option. Even though I tossed them a few bucks at kickstart, with the hope that they would eventually realize this is a good idea to attract a larger player base. But now we are 3 years in and they are still resisting. But I will continue to push this point until launch day and if there is not this option I will not play or recommend the game to anyone.
  • It just doesn't seem possible, and I'm sorry to hear you won't play without that option.
    I really urge you to reconsider and try anyway, and I really look forward to seeing you in game. My group of MMO-friends would gladly accept a purely PvE interested player, if you're ever (however unlikely) playing on OCE server.
  • CaerylCaeryl Member
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended
  • palabanapalabana Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    jubilum wrote: »
    Just to clarity I am in no suggesting that the core pvp mechanics be eliminated or modified in any way. Only that the open world/non-consensual pvp be turned off on a couple (2-3) servers out of the hundreds that will be active at launch.

    At this time I will not play the game without this option. Even though I tossed them a few bucks at kickstart, with the hope that they would eventually realize this is a good idea to attract a larger player base. But now we are 3 years in and they are still resisting. But I will continue to push this point until launch day and if there is not this option I will not play or recommend the game to anyone.

    They are resisting because that is not how they want the game to be played. As they said themselves, if you don't like it, this game is not for you.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    jubilum wrote: »
    Just to clarity I am in no suggesting that the core pvp mechanics be eliminated or modified in any way. Only that the open world/non-consensual pvp be turned off on a couple (2-3) servers out of the hundreds that will be active at launch.
    Exactly what is it you fear will happen if you play the game without them doing this?
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended

    Just to clarify on most games that offer both types of serverrs usually pve servers outnumber pvp servers almost 10:1 so it would not be a couple servers
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended

    Just to clarify on most games that offer both types of serverrs usually pve servers outnumber pvp servers almost 10:1 so it would not be a couple servers

    That's because a separation between the PvP and PvE aspects can be made without breaking the core mechanics of the game. This can't really be done here.
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended

    Just to clarify on most games that offer both types of serverrs usually pve servers outnumber pvp servers almost 10:1 so it would not be a couple servers

    This isn't World of Warcraft, though.
  • AardvarkAardvark Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited July 2020
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended

    Just to clarify on most games that offer both types of serverrs usually pve servers outnumber pvp servers almost 10:1 so it would not be a couple servers

    This isn't World of Warcraft, though.

    1 I don’t want it to be wow there already is one or well 2 if you count classic
    2 I think I actually like the pvp server better for this game. Was just pointing out there are tons of pve players
    3 while I do want the pvp server in this game the anti Griefing mechanic still has 2 major holes that need to be addressed
  • DartanDartan Member
    I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
    I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
    But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP
  • Aardvark wrote: »
    Aardvark wrote: »
    Caeryl wrote: »
    Ashes is not and won’t be a PvE only game. They’re not going to dedicate development time to give the game an entire overhaul for a couple server that don’t want to play the game as intended

    Just to clarify on most games that offer both types of serverrs usually pve servers outnumber pvp servers almost 10:1 so it would not be a couple servers

    This isn't World of Warcraft, though.

    1 I don’t want it to be wow there already is one or well 2 if you count classic
    2 I think I actually like the pvp server better for this game. Was just pointing out there are tons of pve players
    3 while I do want the pvp server in this game the anti Griefing mechanic still has 2 major holes that need to be addressed

    1. Sorry, I didn't say it just to be snarky at you. I will explain in further detail what I meant. WoW is a type of game where a PvE server is totally fine and the game can function entirely normally being PvE only. AoC is not, it is a PvX game where the PvP aspect of the game is a key component of how everything works. Making a PvE only server would be impossible without huge modifications to the game, which at this stage of development would only take time and resources away from the actual game the devs want to make for the players that want to play it. So unfortunately, there won't be 10:1 ratio here because there can't be. Everyone has to play PvX, no one can play just PvP or PvE.

    Here is a quote to help explain, from the creator of the game.

    "We like to really refer to ourselves as a PvX game, because in those systems of PvP, PvE, crafting they're all intertwined: They're interdependent on each other... Our system of development really requires some interdependence there between those things. You're going to need a crafter to give you the best items. You're going to need PvPers to secure cities and castles. You're gonna need PvErs to take down those world bosses for those materials to craft."Steven Sharif

    And here is one more

    "We're very clear with our objective and philosophy on the game and we understand that they may not appeal to everybody. But you know it is an important reciprocal relationship between the content that's related to PvE and the content that's related to PvP and they feed off of each other. They're catalysts for change: Their progression, their development. It's things that people can value when they see something earned and they see something lost. That elicits an emotional response from the player: That they've invested time in to either succeed or fail; and PvP allows for that element to be introduced into gameplay. And we're very clear that is our objective: That risk versus reward relationship, that achievement-based mentality. Not everybody's going to be a winner and that's okay."Steven Sharif

    2. I agree. I'd like a PvP server too one day. That seems a lot simpler because you would just remove corruption system and there it is, but I am perfectly happy if that never happens, and even if it did... It would still be a PvX server because we can't remove PvE from the game, nor should we! It's awesome.

    3. I can't recall what holes those are, but I believe you. There's probably going to be a lot of holes in it, but that's not really something that can be fixed until there's a game to be play-tested. The mechanic will be adjusted as needed.
  • Dartan wrote: »
    I like PVP too but not when trying to quest, or gather.
    I would be up for the PVP flag system, where you cant be attacked unless you want too.
    But have it that if you join in a siege/ caravan etc you are automatically flagged for PVP

    but that ruins the game...
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