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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
This.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/44758/corruption-system#latest
Ah, alright. I hadn't read that up until now, I'm not advocating for preferential treatment or anything that would make any player immune past the starting zone, just to be clear.
Here's the deal, like it or not.
Intrepid have laid out the initial idea for the corruption system. We've all read it, we all have a basic understanding of it.
Until they are able to see it in action, there is nothing more Intrepid can really add to that, nor anything they should add to that (when you consider they have said they will be monitoring it ducing alpha and beta).
All of this was outlined years ago, and players like myself and @Nagash, @George Black, @Wandering Mist, @unknownsystemerror, as well as many, many others have thrashed out the specifics of the system for years, coming up with as many potential exploits to the system as we can collectively think of. We did this to an exhausting level - which is why any post in regards to corruption absolutely will get a reply similar to that from Nagash in this thread.
The fact that you will get such a reply is no reason to not start a thread like this though - as you were not a part of the initial discussions. However, the fact that you were not a part of the initial dicussions and would like to know some of these things is also no reason for people that were involved in those discussions to not reply in the manner that they have.
In the discussions we had, literally every potential exploit we found was either already accounted for in various systems, or was a very easy fix to make. There were no exploits that had us stumpped at all.
However, you won't hear any of that from Intrepid, as until they have a full testing phase with the corruption system in place, they have nothing more at all that they can say.
The develoeprs have seen all the threads on this in the past, and they would be aware of all the potential exploits that we have found, as well as the easy fixes we were able to come up with for them - but again, until they see it tested out, there is nothing for them to say on the matter.
Due to this, there is no point you saying "I see this exploit here, what do Intrepid have to say about it?", because Intrepid have nothing to say about it until it is tested.
The issue there is you are asking the wrong people. What you should be doing is saying "I can see this potential issue in the corruption system, what do you other posters think?". If we are able to come up with a very easy way to prevent such an exploit, then you probably should assume that experienced developers that care about the game they are developing will also be able to come up with a solution.
The way you are phrasing it - whether you realize it or not - is that you are saying you don't trust Intrepid to be half way decent game developers.
Now, if you are able to come up with any other potential exploits that you can see in the corruption system, I'd be happy to reply to you with a very easy work around to it. It may not be what Intrepid do, but again, until they test the system, they have nothing more to say on the matter.
What you have to do is assume that if we can find an easy solution, they can too.
Here's the thing, I've been following the game since 2017, I followed the Kickstarter. I participated in Alpha 0 and I've been keeping up with probably about 60-70% of all the news regarding the game. You telling me I wasn't around for the 'Initial Discussions' doesn't matter, and it doesn't matter that you have spoken about it. This is a completely open format and everyone is allowed to post their ideas, start discussions and talk about the game however they please and I'll continue to do that. Using this logic, you may aswell stop talking about the systems entirely because as far as tangible gameplay of the systems goes, the amount of this we've had access to hasn't honestly changed that dramatically because non of it is honestly close to completion. Why don't they just shut down the forums until the next Alpha phase initiates in this case.
It's not my fault you are perceiving my thread in a certain way no matter how many times I explained that it wasn't me shitting on the systems or not having faith in Intrepid, instead of trying to read intent over text why don't you sit back and listen? I began the thread to just talk about the system with people who are interested in the game because I, like many others are eager for it.
If you're exhausted, that's fine. But that doesn't give you a special right to act like a warm glow shines out of your asses because you don't want to talk about a specific subject anymore, constructively build on the post, share your knowledge or don't post instead of telling people there's no point in trying to start a discussion.
Even better, if you have spoken about this in detail and have covered these exploits and thought of work-arounds then why don't you literally just share that information and your ideas instead of talking to someone who genuinely just wanted an active conversation about this system like they've done something wrong.
There is definitely a reason to not respond in the manner that some people have, you saying everything you have is as useful as this thread is from your perspective. It's actually pretty off putting to see that some of the people who have been on the forums for a long time are such demoralising purists.
Once more, especially for you, I have full faith in Intrepid, I trust their vision and I believe they will do it right. I believe they will find a solution.
In fact, here are a few snippets from what I said above
So, not only did I not say you shouldn't post a thread like this, I actually SPECIFICALLY said you should, I even said that if you had potential exploits you are worried about, I'll let you know what the solution the previous discussion on this topic here came up with.
You should perhaps take back literally that entire post above this one. There is an edit button right there.
I hope you're joking. This is you directly telling me there wasn't any point in making the thread because the thread is literally entirely based on this topic you're saying there's no point in talking about. You literally contradicted yourself in your post so which one is it.
Right back at you, actually ridiculous.
More to the point, asking for quotes from Intrepid on this spoic is pointless right now.
Again, I specifically said there is a point in talking about it, between us posters. Intrepid have nothing to add to the discussion until they have tested corruption.
With the exception of one double-negative, this should all be quite obvious.
Can't remember when I actually ever directed this at Intrepid. Last time I checked the initial post is directed at the other people browsing and commenting to start an open discussion, yet you seem to have convinced yourself otherwise so I went with it for the sake of simplifying things.
I gave you the benefit of the doubt that you just misspoke but in this case, what is the point of your spiel because you're contradicting yourself once more.
This is me, talking about it. So I'll just leave this here for you to read again:
Yes, I'm worried.
Waiting to learn more, and especially to see the system in action first though.
One thing that alleviates my concern is that I don't think corruption will be nearly as common as people think, because you only get it if they don't fight back, and if they don't fight back the victim stands to lose twice as much (harsher penalties) than if they did fight back. This gives a strong incentive for people to engage in the conflict rather than just ignore it.
That is specifically what I was referring to when I said Intrepid have nothing at all to say past outlining the corruption system basics. Of the people that were involved in the original discussions, I am the only one that is still willing to actually and actively participate in discussions like this still.
That is why I said this... If I was not happy to participate in this discussion, I wouldn't have outright said that I will participate in the discussion. I *literally* said that is what I will do.
I posted exactly this in relation to the potential exploits you had in the OP right here.
And then later on I said that if you have any more potential exploits, I am happy to do the same again.
Ok good to know that atleast one player has the same concern I do, also sorry if I burn anyones eyes rn im too lazy to format.
Sorry for the late reply. Had to get some sleep time in.
Experience debt doesn't come from corruptio, it comes for dying.
Experience debt is relevant even on max level because the more exp debt you accummulate by dying the weaker your character becomes. It's not just locking out experience so you can't progress with your leveling, you also get a debuf that makes you weaker/less effective in combat.
And here comes the a tradeoff players will have to decide on. If someone attacks you they become a combatant, if you do not attack back and get killed you get a certain amount of EXP DEBT. If, however you do respond and hit back, you become a combatant too, in which case if you die you only get 50% of the EXP debt.
The difference being that in 1 case your attacker will become red in the first scenario and get corruption and suffer no corruption in the second one. The positive for you is that you get less exp debt in the event that you die.
You could make the loot dropped from a coorrupted player to limit that though.
No, but this only really works with a small amount of corruption, enough to zero out after one kill.
This is because players killed with corruption respawning somewhat randomly, meaning there is no way to be even remotely sure you will get back to a friendly player before being killed again.
In terms of small amounts of corruption, it is the other penalties associated with corruption are more of a deterrent. The thing there is, with small amounts of corruption, you don't drop gear - chances are the gear dropping potential kicks in about the same level of corruption as needing multiple deaths to zero out the corruption you have.
So, really, we are only talking about people killing one person, and then having their friend kill them to zero off the corruption.
The first thing there is that this player will still respawn in a random location. Not a big deal, but a factor.
The second thing is that the player was still actually killed - and there are actual penalties for death in Ashes.
The next thing is that those death penalties apply four times as much if you are killed while corrupted.
What this means is that if I kill you and gain corruption, then a friend comes and kills me to zero out my corruption, I get four times the penalties that I inflicted on you.
These penalties are not that light, either. The first is gear durability - if you lose 2% by me killing you, I lose 8% when my friend kills me.
Then there is experience debt. The thing with experience debt is that it lowers all your stats and skills. This is similar to how corruption lowers your stats, except corruption only applies it's stat loss in PvP combat, whereas stat loss from experience debt is applied across the board.
If me killing you gives you experience debt that will take you 25 equal level mobs to work off, that means I need to kill 100 equal level mobs to work off the experience debt that I gained.
This is a real deterrent. No one that is just trying to farm people for salt will carry on if they know they are getting 4 times the penalties they are inflicting.
If you hear of griefing and people abusing this system as mentioned and do nothing, then you're responsible for the threads on forum after live release of people saying x or y about corrupt players etc.
Why does the system have to hold your hand THAT much in a PvX title.
It is likely that you won't be able to trade if you are corrupt - thus the gear you gain corruption in is the gear you stand to lose. This one thing gets rid of the first and third issue in the nearly quoted post (not that the third one would ever be an issue).
For the second one, there are some reasonable death penalties in this game in general, and dying while corrupt means they apply at 4 times the rate. If a player gains corruption to the point where a friend needs to kill them over and over again in order to zero out that corruption, that character that just had all of those deaths would have days of work before they are able to function in equal level content again due to experience debt and its associated stat reduction. They will also have a far greater repair bill than all the players they killed combined. And that is even assuming the friend was able to find the corrupt player after respawning in a random location - which is what happens when you are killed while corrupt.
You just like to create drama don't you? If you don't and you genuinely are this jaded, look at the top of the page and read the post of @noaani. And you will see I am not the only one that judges your line of inquiry as problematic.
Also, if you're so worried, i don't mind you not playing the game. In fact, I believe it would be a nicer experience without passive aggressive hyper casuals, that try to bombard everything that isn't their opinion.
Those things can't happen, though. The corruption system doesn't work that way.
1. No. They can't. There's talk of not even being able to unequip or trade items while corrupted.
2. Again, they can't do that. There is durability, XP debt and a PvP debuff. Simply killing someone only removes corruption, they still have to repair things (costly) and work off their xp debt to return their character to full strength (this takes a lot of time)
3. Group PvP isn't an issue it's ... a huge part of the game that the game is being built and marketed on. If someone manages to trade stolen goods to players who are unflagged, you can kill them and take some back, either they do not fight back and suffer harsher (x2) penalties because of it or they do fight back and suffer less penalties, but you might get your stuff back and you don't get any penalties yourself.
On top of that, killing a corrupted player means they have to respawn somewhere in the HUGE world, at random. A huge world with no fast travel.
The system isn't perfect yet, obviously because it needs to be tested before it can be changed and tweaked .. the important thing is to look at the intention and design of the system. It's there to stop griefing, not non-consensual PvP (which isn't griefing).. If it's failing in it's role to stop griefing, it will be adjusted. Additionally it has multiple aspects to it for the explicit reason to prevent people from 'gaming' it with their friends and just avoiding punishment. You may find a way to avoid one aspect, like a friend being the one to kill you so that you don't lose gear .. but you're still forced into the more inconvenient aspects of it (XP debt, durability, random respawn).
There is a difference between understanding a thing and having an opinion on that understanding - and not understanding a thing and still having an opinion.
The thing is, no one here is disagreeing with your opinion, we are simply attempting to make sure you have the correct facts so you can form a proper opinion. If you listen to and understand these facts, your opinion will change - not necessarily to be the same as anyone else's, but definitely to something other than what it is now.
Some people though, seem quite content with forming a factless opinion, and then refusing to listen to facts. Not saying that is you, yet, but it is some people over the last few days.
The main problem I see is the wiki not holding all information (Not that a player made site should be held to such standards). The issues have been repeated so much I've aligned to being a Bounty Hunter.
If you believe Corrupted will be superior to Bounty Hunter tactics, you'd be wrong. Jedi of all grades were much stronger than Bounty Hunters in SWG, yet, Bounty Hunters worked together for the Bounties.
You can't take a static position because the situation isn't static at all. News will spread of grouped griefers, just like the Wild West Posses will form to eradicate the threat.
Until you have tested the corruption system in-game, you can't say it is flawed. You can say you have concerns (I've stated concerns myself) but to demand a change to a system from the outside, when the inside could be acceptable, is mere folly. If the system was exploitable, the system wouldn't be present. The system wasn't exploitable in L2 and the system has been refined in Ashes. The fact we have Bounty Hunters at all is a miracle. The fact that a griefer on rampage loses ALL PvP viability after enough kills will deter massed griefing.
The corrupted players might have a fetish for killing Bounty Hunters, the system makes the combat fair between Bounty Hunters and Corrupted Players (Not like SWG). Yet, the threat turns to the Bounty Hunters, not average joe wandering through the forest.
When a Green Player sees a corrupted player, kill the corrupted player, don't allow the corrupted player to gank you. The corrupted player will not be at optimal levels for PvP. I do not understand the concerns some people have over being ganked. If you are low level and being ganked then Bounty Hunters will assist in such circumstance. If you believe in spreading corruption, you can't then complain corruption is occuring.
We still don't know what it will be like in the corrupted players point of view. Remember, corruption is part of the lore where its not some 'title' its actually being consumed by corruption which is a force. this could in turn, make it so the gear you have on you becomes corrupted and making it untradeable - which also gives it that debuff which can be dropped on death if that makes sense?
So many possibilities but we just don't know until we have it in our hands to test it. But i agree, this forum is to discus potential issues and foresee things like this and fix them early IF they are an issue or even keep it as a precaution / to be kept in mind once the system is out and we can test it.
I think both sides here need to chill a bit and remember that these discussions are for the best intention for the game and the more ideas, arguments and debates; the more sources the devs have and beta/alpha testers have to refer to when testing specifics.
Corruption wont prevent some players to ruin other player gameplay, even if needed for them to re-create new character and to do the same thing.
One more thing, AoC will be so anti streaming/streamer game.
I can already see stream sniping (even with stream delay) and ganking just to ruin their 'life', killing their mount (it might be ok killing mount for first or second time, but after that they'll just leave game or play it only off stream sometimes), and so on...
If one streams delicate interactions, then what would one expect? I have no sympathies for streamers. If a streamer is silly enough to stream live action events (Sieges, Raids etc) that will enable some people to cheat, I'd kick the streamer from the raids all together. There is nothing stopping people recording incidents and uploading it later.
If a streamer expects extra protections it is not acceptable. A streamer won't just be at risk. Anyone with the streamer will also be at risk. I appreciate this issue of streamers didn't appear in UO and DAoC. Battle tactics would have been a god damn nightmare.
You didn't even read the information I posted
It's been explained so many times why that is not true. Please stop spreading misinformation.