You may have scanned over some posts but you clearly have not read everything. I respect your reply but to be an actual voice in this conversation then please read up on everything
I mean I'm just here to see how much you trip up with your story which you do alot.
How can you mess up so bad and actually believe people don't see it? First you directly respond to me with caravans and now lecturing oyu on how wrong it is, somehow I don't have the full picture.
Have fun justifying being a negative influence.
Sometimes it seems people are intentionally overmisunderstanding peoples ideas and thoughts on the game, not everyone has time to read through all posts in the forum and neither do I, but the default attitude that people have the best intentions and are trying to voice their thoughts and concerns should be maintained. Pettiness should not
When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about being an assassin or mercenary, perhaps a full fledged red guild that hires itself to do caravan raiding or node sieging.
As typical, it turned into a justified griefing thread. I get griefing, I've done it. But, in all reality, griefing only ruins a community and game. Please go back to kicking kittens and beating up third graders.
When I look at this proposed PVP system, the color codes/flags/benefits/penalties, I'm taken back to my time in Ultima Online, which had a similar system Red(accumulated short and long term murders)/Blue(normal)/Grey(recently attacked a blue/grey player). I would imagine the OP is thinking more along the lines of the UO system where being the "bad guy" or a murderer had different implications than this system will have. This system doesn't seem one that really allows for you to pursue that path, because the penalty that goes along with it - is actually a huge bane to continuing to fight people(or seems at least).
Ultima in lieu of corruption had something called murder counts, short and long term - you got them for killing blue players(non combatants), I can't remember the exact durations but if you had 4 or more long term murders you turned Red basically, which meant you couldn't set foot in most major cities - and if you did players could simply say "guards" and you would be struck down dead from a bolt of lightning, give or take. Murder counts only cleared based on elapsed time, long term was like 1-2 hours I think per count, and they expired one at a time. So players who wanted to keep their murder counts low - could, but if you wanted to forsake access to towns and conventional social settings, you could be permanently red.
Anyone could attack you - and suffer no penalty, and often probably similar to this system, there were a lot of rewards for killing the player(outside of the ffa/full loot system in place already). There were also specifically designated revive points(wandering red healers) for Red players, and a city or two(a pirate themed one), where Red players could still interact with certain shops and other things. It was a lifestyle choice, rather than a system to necessarily game with penalties/etc. I don't really see a similar spirit in this system, here it seems very cut and dry that Red(corrupted) is not a lifestyle choice, just a penalty, and one you will invariably get rid of, and if it's something within the players immediate control and ability to influence (like dying/other mechanics), they'll likely be aiming not to stay that way very long.
I could be wrong, but I think that's the dichotomy between what this system is, and perhaps something in the spirit of what the OP is discussing. I was personally a fan of UO's method, and being able to be a player killer as a lifestyle choice, once a character was at a point that most conventional social/town settings weren't as necessary. Also(in my case) I was Red, but strictly killed other Red players, it was just due to certain scenarios with non reds assisting red players, that one might end up becoming Red anyway, Blue players healing Reds, or doing other things to influence a fight in a support capacity. In any event, old school nostalgia, I at least like that this game has some kind of nuanced system to begin with, even if something in the past has done it more to my personal preferences, and again possibly in the spirit of the OP's thoughts there.
Edit: Just to note, this is purely hypothetical, since I haven't seen this games actual system at work, and I don't know how it will play out, just speculating so I could be misunderstanding the variables, and the practical application entirely.
I have mentioned UO a few times but I completely understand that will NEVER happen in here if you read everything in this evolving thread you'll see we are trying to think of new ways using the mechanics of the game already in-game, but thank you for your reply and yellow fellow UO player!
Yeah by no means am I advocating for UO's pvp system, - although I honestly think the least amount of griefing I've ever seen in a game is UO - where players were free to do anything they wanted, and there were a lot of upsides to killing people, and risks associated, versus a game like WoW - where people are very tightly constrained, but because of the lack of choice due to factions - it just ends up being in "many cases" see horde - > kill horde. Players in an FFA setting tend to sort themselves, the more civilized people tend to band together, or that was at least my experience there, granted UO did take an easy way out to a degree with Trammel and Felucca and segregating things, but giving more rewards and different zones to Felucca certainly was a good thing.
UO was just the closest thing I could relate to a similar pvp system where being a murderer was a lifestyle - with penalties, but also still a functional choice, and I wasn't thinking this system was aiming to be "that" specifically. The PVP system is on a long list of things I think that game did phenomenally that very few if any games have even tried to scratch the surface of since then. In game player housing/real estate market, entirely player driven economies, huge emphasis on crafting as an actual point of power/reknown and meaningful game additives, rather than something like WoW where it's just supplemental/minor bonus, and insignificant after awhile.
To the developers credit here, I've heard a lot of good things in regards to some of those subjects from the AMA and other stuff I've listened to, so, hopefully they deliver on the ambition As far as suggestions for the pvp system, I think until I actually got a chance to play, it'd be difficult to give meaningful feedback. Either way, hopefully everyone has a productive dialogue .
I just don't understand Intrepids philosophy on PvP.
If the corruption system is set up in place to deter players from killing other players unjustifiably, then what use is allowing PvP at all? It doesn't only deter players from killing low level players, it also deters players from killing other players, ANY player in the open world.
And if the entire PvP is revolving around flagging systems, then it's no different from a PvE game. The caravans feel like a mini-game in which you're allowed to kill other players.
I'm still hopeful that one day I'll enter a guild that's dedicated to flagging every other guild for war, so we'll be able to go around the whole corruption bs that's dampening the skills until you can't fight at all. lol.
This is why we voice our opinions in hopes a dev will see this and continue explaining the systems and continue updating them based on the community feedback form both the testers and those of us in the forums and the ones participating in the Q&A.
The main thing is that the game isn't out and it isn't finished so a lot or worries or concerns or even a lot of the facts are not really set in stone because launch day hasn't happened and even then the game will continue to grow and change. Luckily the devs on this game do seem way more interested in having fun and creating a new'ish unique game that tries to do everything and they seem very passionate. I personally doubt we will be disappointed even if we don't agree with everything.
When I read the title of this thread, I thought it was going to be about being an assassin or mercenary, perhaps a full fledged red guild that hires itself to do caravan raiding or node sieging.
As typical, it turned into a justified griefing thread. I get griefing, I've done it. But, in all reality, griefing only ruins a community and game. Please go back to kicking kittens and beating up third graders.
This good sir/madam is not a thread on griefing. I do wish you would read it. I have not gone over red guilds because that is a very far stretch and considering the things in the game already that I have brought up with some hypothetically twist like the bounty system vs corrupted players or religious diety questing for bad players vs a good diety has been met with such backlash that there is sadly little to be gained from even grander ideas like red guilds.
I do appreciate your input but you would, unfortunately have to read this entire thread to see how it has evolved to understand the conversation. I have brought up some ideas on way to be an assassin within city walls in a back alley as a potential are to accept shady quests for slightly more reward that are open flag zones, and a few others ideas of which are not griefing and have not been griefing focused.
Yeah by no means am I advocating for UO's pvp system, - although I honestly think the least amount of griefing I've ever seen in a game is UO - where players were free to do anything they wanted, and there were a lot of upsides to killing people, and risks associated, versus a game like WoW - where people are very tightly constrained, but because of the lack of choice due to factions - it just ends up being in "many cases" see horde - > kill horde. Players in an FFA setting tend to sort themselves, the more civilized people tend to band together, or that was at least my experience there, granted UO did take an easy way out to a degree with Trammel and Felucca and segregating things, but giving more rewards and different zones to Felucca certainly was a good thing.
UO was just the closest thing I could relate to a similar pvp system where being a murderer was a lifestyle - with penalties, but also still a functional choice, and I wasn't thinking this system was aiming to be "that" specifically. The PVP system is on a long list of things I think that game did phenomenally that very few if any games have even tried to scratch the surface of since then. In game player housing/real estate market, entirely player driven economies, huge emphasis on crafting as an actual point of power/reknown and meaningful game additives, rather than something like WoW where it's just supplemental/minor bonus, and insignificant after awhile.
To the developers credit here, I've heard a lot of good things in regards to some of those subjects from the AMA and other stuff I've listened to, so, hopefully they deliver on the ambition As far as suggestions for the pvp system, I think until I actually got a chance to play, it'd be difficult to give meaningful feedback. Either way, hopefully everyone has a productive dialogue .
Very good points and yes UO was so unique and odd. It is funny to talk to people and tell them that you can choose to be an outright murderer and yet also say the game was highly balanced and fun. UO was a beast in its day with the economy and player housing and a truly open world pvp system that balanced itself. The players themselves balanced the system. I loved the roleplaying Orc and Undead guilds that popped up on every server and they were the real life players that acted as npc murder hoards and yet plenty of blue guilds enjoyed protecting farming nodes and spawns. The game was amazing but what eventually brought it down was the new items and stats and people started getting specialized gear that made people more hesitant to pvp unless it was blessed. I do miss just having levels of gear with stat tiers that were not months of grinding to get, so you could focus on the content itself and the pvp aspect vs the neverending gear grind EVERY game turns out being in the modern gaming world.
To the developers credit here, I've heard a lot of good things in regards to some of those subjects from the AMA and other stuff I've listened to, so, hopefully they deliver on the ambition As far as suggestions for the pvp system, I think until I actually got a chance to play, it'd be difficult to give meaningful feedback. Either way, hopefully everyone has a productive dialogue .
We are just looking for a good conversation about things we would like to see and not be told that it doesn't fit the game's intent over and over. Just some ideas about ways to be bad that are not promoting griefing or unfair pk'ing on any kind. I think some good things have come up if you actually read through.
To the developers credit here, I've heard a lot of good things in regards to some of those subjects from the AMA and other stuff I've listened to, so, hopefully they deliver on the ambition As far as suggestions for the pvp system, I think until I actually got a chance to play, it'd be difficult to give meaningful feedback. Either way, hopefully everyone has a productive dialogue .
We are just looking for a good conversation about things we would like to see and not be told that it doesn't fit the game's intent over and over. Just some ideas about ways to be bad that are not promoting griefing or unfair pk'ing on any kind. I think some good things have come up if you actually read through.
I don't think it's that it doesn't fit, but I feel it's like Intrepid is saying:
I'm still hopeful that one day I'll enter a guild that's dedicated to flagging every other guild for war, so we'll be able to go around the whole corruption bs that's dampening the skills until you can't fight at all. lol.
OMG, IS please put a stop to this immediately. Eve Online redux. This is the most abused system in Eve, their are a handful of corporations that this is all they do. They war dec. 1000's of smaller corps every week, they even war dec large null sec. corps who very rarely even enter high sec just for a target rich environment. Then they sit at choke point jump gates to kill everyone that passes thru. If you're lucky enough to pass thru the gate and not be red to them, expect to be war dec'ed next week. Eve has tried several things to cut down this cheese of the system with very litt;e success. The only way to control the above mentality is to allow a guild to war dec one maybe two other guilds at a time.
If something like this pops up on a server it will be empty in two weeks, it is so effective in Eve because there is no option to move to another server. You have two choices if you are small, new players corp., either log out until the war dec ends or sit in a station for the duration.
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Intreprid wants to allow players to attack others that they have a problem with. That is it. There is a potential reward in crafting material drops from attacking non-combatants, but the reward does not go farther than that unless you count the benefit of getting additional PVP against bounty hunters without gaining corruption.
Thank you for your feedback good sir but again I state that this thread isn't completely focused on player killing. Yes part of doing bad guy things is killing people and it is allowed and you are punished for it and it would be cool for players who constantly play this game with corruption to have some sort of acknowledgment if you are going out of your way to do so as part of a quest to prove how much of a bad guy your character is that leads towards something AND the potential for having a guild that perhaps does fight bounty hunters as a good vs bad in the eyes of society is fun but again good will always win do to corruption and that is fine but there are other things that make you a bad guy.
Intreprid is giving us the caravan system that allows some level of being a bad guy and that is awesome but.. . obviously bad guys want more right? So I can only hope a dev comes across this with more detailed information on some long term mechanics or a system that player may partake in that can reward that path to counterbalance the good guys.
I will also state one more time, I am not asking to be rewarded strictly for being a player killer.
The corruption system is designed to punish being a player killer. If you combine the corruption system with a reward system, then players are simply motivated to find how to game the system to receive rewards. This will invariably benefit PKers.
I'm still hopeful that one day I'll enter a guild that's dedicated to flagging every other guild for war, so we'll be able to go around the whole corruption bs that's dampening the skills until you can't fight at all. lol.
OMG, IS please put a stop to this immediately. Eve Online redux. This is the most abused system in Eve, their are a handful of corporations that this is all they do. They war dec. 1000's of smaller corps every week, they even war dec large null sec. corps who very rarely even enter high sec just for a target rich environment. Then they sit at choke point jump gates to kill everyone that passes thru. If you're lucky enough to pass thru the gate and not be red to them, expect to be war dec'ed next week. Eve has tried several things to cut down this cheese of the system with very litt;e success. The only way to control the above mentality is to allow a guild to war dec one maybe two other guilds at a time.
If something like this pops up on a server it will be empty in two weeks, it is so effective in Eve because there is no option to move to another server. You have two choices if you are small, new players corp., either log out until the war dec ends or sit in a station for the duration.
Another option is, dont force players into forming such guilds in first place.
Tsk. I sound like a terrorist.
Corrupted players suffer plenty as is without dampening their skills to make them easy to kill.
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
@FuryBladeborne where did he say a corruption system should be married with a reward system?
Sorry, there is actually multiple related posts being referred to. That is the original poster. In the OP, one of the suggestions made was to have bounty hunters drop gear if killed by a corrupted player they are hunting. This is essentially a reward system for corruption. It encourages players to kill green names, get corruption and trap bounty hunters to collect their gear. A corrupted teaming with their guild to ambush a bounty hunter is one option that comes to mind.
Anyway, I pointed out that a reward system is unlikely to be added to the corruption system, he responded, and the post that you responded to was my further response.
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
people seems to be forgetting that that bounty hunters are being implemented into the game.
Everyone keeps telling that corruption should not be rewarded and only be punished..
bounty hunters get rewarded... so should corrupted players in a mild form..
Example:
A corrupted player should get some reward by killing a bounty hunter imo..
if none goes corrupted, the bounty system will not work.
People will become corrupted simply because they want to PK. If you don't already know this, then browse through this thread. There are many people describing how much they want to be corrupted. The bounty hunter option is part of the system in place to keep these people in check so that they don't wreck the game for everyone else.
I've seen Steven say that the game will be able to track a great many things and provides for things like leader boards and achievement titles. The examples given on wiki is a title like server first for a world boss. But it would be a great add for the game to have hundreds of titles for the Good, the Bad, and the Ugly.
Example titles that your character can get stuck with and/or be proud to have (a title can be a bad thing too!)
Specifically kills that are Corruption causing, lawful kills would not count! - Cowardly or Pathetic = Kill ## people who are a level 80% below yours in a week (i set a time limit such a week because if it's a never ending running tally then most any 10 year veteran would have this title eventually, but if you do this many in 1 week then clearly you are a douche bag worthy of this title, and the title is stuck above your head for all to see even when your shopping in town, all will know your shame! You can't toggle the title off!) - Dishonorable = Kill ## people who are a level 40% below yours in a week - Annoying = Kill ## Merchant/Vendor NPCs in a week
The above would be title most would hate having shown above their name, but tough, you earned it and now you dont have the option to turn off the title, for a set time or until maybe you do a quest to clean yourself you will walk around as "Drago the Pathetic" and everyone will know you got that title by ganking noobs. - Malicious = Kill ## of player mounts (horses, turtles, stuffington, etc) in a week - Outcast = Join and leave ## of Nodes or Guilds in a month
Some title are more elite, and require both a hgh level of karma as well as high fame, i.e. it's easy to be "bad" but to be "evil" means killing a whole nation. Or it's easy to get the title "Kind" but to be "Angelic" means saving a world from a demon lord. - Glorious = During the life of your character be a general for ### successful node sieges - Dread Lord = During the life of your character complete ### religious based quests that were defined as "evil" types of quests, kill this NPC, kill this religious leader, complete a quest to find and destroy a mythic ruby that held in it the power and love of the goddess of nature... etc, it would be a long list with high requirements. - Wicked = Destroy ### of relgious artifacts that are catagorized as "good" religions - Angelic = During the life of your character complete ### religious based quests that the devs have defined as good. - Dark or Demon Lord = As a monster during a Monster Coin Event kill ### people
And of course we need lots of good titles: - Kind = Complete ## bulletin board tasks in a week that involves saving animals - Upstanding = Donate ### gold/embers to a religion or node construction project in a week - Industrious = Complete ## construction projects at your node and Freehold - Distinguished Lord = Complete a large number of multiple different types of Node objectives, donating to religions, providing mats in constructon projects, complete merchant quests, voting (more people vote when there's rewards for doing it, real life proves that!) - Renaissance man or lady = Master multiple trade skills - Socialite = Talk to ### different NPCs in multiple different Nodes
Man this is fun, I could go on for hours making up titles and requirements.
Oh we should even have polls in our node for titles to give to our node Mayor, the titles could be ones pre-picked by the devs to avoid non RP friendly titles. But perhaps once a month the Mayor has a poll automatically generated at the town hall that asks citizens to vote on what title the mayor has earned and it would range from (Infamous or Dastardly to Upstanding and Illustrious) thus if a Castle Monarch or Node Mayor leaves taxes at a very high rate for months and the citizens don't feel the taxes are just then they may vote him the title of "Wretched" or "Greedy" Or if the Mayor sets up a horrible caravan trade with another node to trade 1 diamond for 1 egg, either because he's that stupid or he was talked into doing it to make the female ruler of that node happy with him, then his citizens (just before voting him out for good) give him the title of "weak minded / feeble minded"
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FuryBladeborneMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
Corrupted players suffer plenty as is without dampening their skills to make them easy to kill.
It seems apparent that the point of dampening skills until the PKer is PVP ineffective is to stop the PKer from murdering green names constantly. If nothing else will stop the player from abusing others to such an extent, then being PVP ineffective will at least for a time.
people seems to be forgetting that that bounty hunters are being implemented into the game.
Everyone keeps telling that corruption should not be rewarded and only be punished..
bounty hunters get rewarded... so should corrupted players in a mild form..
Example:
A corrupted player should get some reward by killing a bounty hunter imo..
if none goes corrupted, the bounty system will not work.
People will become corrupted simply because they want to PK. If you don't already know this, then browse through this thread. There are many people describing how much they want to be corrupted. The bounty hunter option is part of the system in place to keep these people in check so that they don't wreck the game for everyone else.
You know, although I want to be corrupted, I have 0 interest in killing low level players who are the new seeds that will populate the game even more.
If you take a look at the corruption system you fill find out that it's based around "the corrupted player has to die."
Why are we playing this prolonged game of bullshit. Just outright kill the player the moment they become corrupted, you dont need bounty hunters. I find the whole dampening of skills plain ridiculous. That's the only thing that bothers me.
I'm still hopeful that one day I'll enter a guild that's dedicated to flagging every other guild for war, so we'll be able to go around the whole corruption bs that's dampening the skills until you can't fight at all. lol.
OMG, IS please put a stop to this immediately. Eve Online redux. This is the most abused system in Eve, their are a handful of corporations that this is all they do. They war dec. 1000's of smaller corps every week, they even war dec large null sec. corps who very rarely even enter high sec just for a target rich environment. Then they sit at choke point jump gates to kill everyone that passes thru. If you're lucky enough to pass thru the gate and not be red to them, expect to be war dec'ed next week. Eve has tried several things to cut down this cheese of the system with very litt;e success. The only way to control the above mentality is to allow a guild to war dec one maybe two other guilds at a time.
If something like this pops up on a server it will be empty in two weeks, it is so effective in Eve because there is no option to move to another server. You have two choices if you are small, new players corp., either log out until the war dec ends or sit in a station for the duration.
No, no and no. I do plan on making my own guild hellbent on world domination. That means either subjugating other guilds or at constant war with them. Sieging other nodes as often as possible, destroying them then appoing one of my guild's members as a person in charge of that node. And so on and so on, untill all of the 100+ nodes are directly or indirectly under my rule. Kapish ?
people seems to be forgetting that that bounty hunters are being implemented into the game.
Everyone keeps telling that corruption should not be rewarded and only be punished..
bounty hunters get rewarded... so should corrupted players in a mild form..
Example:
A corrupted player should get some reward by killing a bounty hunter imo..
if none goes corrupted, the bounty system will not work.
People will become corrupted simply because they want to PK. If you don't already know this, then browse through this thread. There are many people describing how much they want to be corrupted. The bounty hunter option is part of the system in place to keep these people in check so that they don't wreck the game for everyone else.
You know, although I want to be corrupted, I have 0 interest in killing low level players who are the new seeds that will populate the game even more.
If you take a look at the corruption system you fill find out that it's based around "the corrupted player has to die."
Why are we playing this prolonged game of bullshit. Just outright kill the player the moment they become corrupted, you dont need bounty hunters. I find the whole dampening of skills plain ridiculous. That's the only thing that bothers me.
Ya, I think it sucks to kill players to a point that your PVP ineffective. On the other hand, people have been describing it as mainly (or only, I think) impacting players that kill green names in non-consensual PVP. It tends to just be PKers that should get stat reduction; and, that stat reduction apparently only culminates in being PVP ineffective after killing many green names. As a way of finally stopping such abusive behaviors, I suppose that it is acceptable.
I think I have read enough of this thread to get some idea of what you maybe are trying to say.
You want there to be OTHER ways to earn Corruption and through those means perhaps an unknown underground faction may become available where you can gain access to titles, Cosmetics to adorn your character and possibly cosmetic spell/abilities that would separate you from the masses as someone who is/has been corrupted for some length of time.
These things would not exclusively require you to PK. Perhaps there would be missions like Assassinating a Mayor or Guild Leader of a Castle or high level cleric of a religion, which would be reasonable expectations as they would be legitimate issues to deal with and make those roles a little more interesting. Yes it's a PK, but if you accept the responsibility of the role you accept the danger, much like running a caravan.
You would still get corruption, but as a mission type, you would also earn corruption points you would not get just killing random players for corruption, so the motivation for random PKing is further decreased.
Of course this would have to be a secret in the game until a player earned enough corruption and survived long enough to unlock some hidden dungeon or some such to unlock the Corrupted "religion" and build it up from there.
You could then apply the points you earn from the other means of earning corruption to buy cosmetics and level up within the ranks. You wouldn't gain access to any new skills, but maybe your spells/abilities have a more corrupted look to them.
Additional to the idea: I don't think metropolis can form in the underground nodes. So maybe there could a chance for a node to form a black market type town where corrupted wouldn't be auto attacked by guards.
But I digress........I tried skimming through all the posts and didn't see anyone mention the one thing that I feel being a corrupt player should be about......the challenge. If you can take on bounty hunters, and kill combatants while fighting at diminished fighting ability, that will be a bad a**ed player indeed and what you should be striving for as a 'bad guy', not ganking non-combatants.
I will also say that terms like, "I don't want to just be a griefing player killer" bother me because that right there tells me you do indeed plan on being a griefer. Being an a**hole only occasionally doesn't really make your argument any better imho.
You hit a great point with being corrupted and still fighting the bounty hunters, and should you choose to become corrupted and you survived waves of bounty hunters who choose to come at you and you survive then why not be rewarded with a cool hard to get title?
As for the griefing stuff, you can get any vibe you get and I have no control of it but I feel like if you read everything vs scanning it as you admitted then you would see the scenario-based things presented that is not griefing. I have come up with several player choice-based options for a potential way to be a good player vs a bad player, a player vs player, and not a person killing an unwilling person.
And yes this game has siege wars, and guild wars and I will take part in them but there is a difference that takes away from the individual experience. There could and is already some smaller-scale things and we are simply discussing the potential for more
If it's a title you want, I'm all for that. I would even support a whole slew of titles that can only be gotten through corruption, maybe even a hat or something I will not however support things like reverse bounty systems that reward players in a real monetary way. That goes beyond a minor incentive.
And I admitted to skimming the THREAD, I thoroughly read the original post.
that system that punishes you for being bad by basically making you completely useless after so long so that you are no longer a threat to even a level 1 critter.
I dislike PKers, specially griefers, but I must agree this is bad game design. Punish reds in as many ways as possible if you want to, make them lose gear on death, shine a red dot on the World Map, but don't turn them into harmless things. Unless the game is able to detect someone who's just a griefer trying to make other people's experiences miserable, I think a debuff is unnecessary.
that system that punishes you for being bad by basically making you completely useless after so long so that you are no longer a threat to even a level 1 critter.
I dislike PKers, specially griefers, but I must agree this is bad game design. Punish reds in as many ways as possible if you want to, make them lose gear on death, shine a red dot on the World Map, but don't turn them into harmless things.
Why not? Making them unable to continue griefing seems perfectly fair if they’ve shown they can’t be trusted not to grief.
Don’t forget Corruption-based stat damps ONLY apply to PvP
@SSRogue There are open 'battlefields', caravans, raids, sieges, nodes wars, that all allow for non corruption pvp. This is part of the risk and reward system. So highway robbery and bandits can definitely be a thing.
Also, there is a thieves guild that will provide storyline, and they have discussed allowing players to go 'darker paths' regarding religious storyline. The wiki pages goes into more depth about the nuances and how and where corruption is a thing. (You can also look up factions for info about theives guild, scholars academy and trade company? Not sure on the name. Also more in depth look at religions).
Basically you can be a 'combatant' and not get corrupted. But you can't attack 'non-combantents' without getting corruption. However, if its an open battlefield, everyone's immediately a combatant, and you won't get corruption for pvp. The corruption system is more geared to prevent bullying. There's a lot of systems that allow active healthy pvp. Happy hunting 😁
I'm playing archeage unchanged on the fresh start server and after 2 months many guilds quit and most of my neighbors are gone. When there's no crime balance you have a world of murderous players. Typically these types of players will quickly gear up and go after easy targets, and mostly kill them for no other reason than to laugh about it. I find it humorous they cry about any realism that would occur for their actions in game. I hope all future games will bring a realist crime punishment system into action. How can you expect to do whatever you want without any consequences? My advice for you types, go play those dying games or ones just for mindless killing. Your play style is cancer for MMOs and only make up a very small percentage of the player base.
As an analyst, it comes down to crime balance and law structure for continuous healthy player growth.
Comments
Sometimes it seems people are intentionally overmisunderstanding peoples ideas and thoughts on the game, not everyone has time to read through all posts in the forum and neither do I, but the default attitude that people have the best intentions and are trying to voice their thoughts and concerns should be maintained. Pettiness should not
As typical, it turned into a justified griefing thread. I get griefing, I've done it. But, in all reality, griefing only ruins a community and game. Please go back to kicking kittens and beating up third graders.
Yeah by no means am I advocating for UO's pvp system, - although I honestly think the least amount of griefing I've ever seen in a game is UO - where players were free to do anything they wanted, and there were a lot of upsides to killing people, and risks associated, versus a game like WoW - where people are very tightly constrained, but because of the lack of choice due to factions - it just ends up being in "many cases" see horde - > kill horde. Players in an FFA setting tend to sort themselves, the more civilized people tend to band together, or that was at least my experience there, granted UO did take an easy way out to a degree with Trammel and Felucca and segregating things, but giving more rewards and different zones to Felucca certainly was a good thing.
UO was just the closest thing I could relate to a similar pvp system where being a murderer was a lifestyle - with penalties, but also still a functional choice, and I wasn't thinking this system was aiming to be "that" specifically. The PVP system is on a long list of things I think that game did phenomenally that very few if any games have even tried to scratch the surface of since then. In game player housing/real estate market, entirely player driven economies, huge emphasis on crafting as an actual point of power/reknown and meaningful game additives, rather than something like WoW where it's just supplemental/minor bonus, and insignificant after awhile.
To the developers credit here, I've heard a lot of good things in regards to some of those subjects from the AMA and other stuff I've listened to, so, hopefully they deliver on the ambition
This is why we voice our opinions in hopes a dev will see this and continue explaining the systems and continue updating them based on the community feedback form both the testers and those of us in the forums and the ones participating in the Q&A.
The main thing is that the game isn't out and it isn't finished so a lot or worries or concerns or even a lot of the facts are not really set in stone because launch day hasn't happened and even then the game will continue to grow and change. Luckily the devs on this game do seem way more interested in having fun and creating a new'ish unique game that tries to do everything and they seem very passionate. I personally doubt we will be disappointed even if we don't agree with everything.
This good sir/madam is not a thread on griefing. I do wish you would read it. I have not gone over red guilds because that is a very far stretch and considering the things in the game already that I have brought up with some hypothetically twist like the bounty system vs corrupted players or religious diety questing for bad players vs a good diety has been met with such backlash that there is sadly little to be gained from even grander ideas like red guilds.
I do appreciate your input but you would, unfortunately have to read this entire thread to see how it has evolved to understand the conversation. I have brought up some ideas on way to be an assassin within city walls in a back alley as a potential are to accept shady quests for slightly more reward that are open flag zones, and a few others ideas of which are not griefing and have not been griefing focused.
Very good points and yes UO was so unique and odd. It is funny to talk to people and tell them that you can choose to be an outright murderer and yet also say the game was highly balanced and fun. UO was a beast in its day with the economy and player housing and a truly open world pvp system that balanced itself. The players themselves balanced the system. I loved the roleplaying Orc and Undead guilds that popped up on every server and they were the real life players that acted as npc murder hoards and yet plenty of blue guilds enjoyed protecting farming nodes and spawns. The game was amazing but what eventually brought it down was the new items and stats and people started getting specialized gear that made people more hesitant to pvp unless it was blessed. I do miss just having levels of gear with stat tiers that were not months of grinding to get, so you could focus on the content itself and the pvp aspect vs the neverending gear grind EVERY game turns out being in the modern gaming world.
We are just looking for a good conversation about things we would like to see and not be told that it doesn't fit the game's intent over and over. Just some ideas about ways to be bad that are not promoting griefing or unfair pk'ing on any kind. I think some good things have come up if you actually read through.
I don't think it's that it doesn't fit, but I feel it's like Intrepid is saying:
"we're making the best car ever!"
and then people suggest
"but why don't you make a truck, it's bigger"
OMG, IS please put a stop to this immediately. Eve Online redux. This is the most abused system in Eve, their are a handful of corporations that this is all they do. They war dec. 1000's of smaller corps every week, they even war dec large null sec. corps who very rarely even enter high sec just for a target rich environment. Then they sit at choke point jump gates to kill everyone that passes thru. If you're lucky enough to pass thru the gate and not be red to them, expect to be war dec'ed next week. Eve has tried several things to cut down this cheese of the system with very litt;e success. The only way to control the above mentality is to allow a guild to war dec one maybe two other guilds at a time.
If something like this pops up on a server it will be empty in two weeks, it is so effective in Eve because there is no option to move to another server. You have two choices if you are small, new players corp., either log out until the war dec ends or sit in a station for the duration.
The corruption system is designed to punish being a player killer. If you combine the corruption system with a reward system, then players are simply motivated to find how to game the system to receive rewards. This will invariably benefit PKers.
I have no real interest in engaging in the delusions going on in this thread, but this sums up how I feel about the whole thing.
Everyone keeps telling that corruption should not be rewarded and only be punished..
bounty hunters get rewarded... so should corrupted players in a mild form..
Example:
A corrupted player should get some reward by killing a bounty hunter imo..
if none goes corrupted, the bounty system will not work.
Which is it? Are you holier than us or aren't ya? ;D
Another option is, dont force players into forming such guilds in first place.
Tsk. I sound like a terrorist.
Corrupted players suffer plenty as is without dampening their skills to make them easy to kill.
Sorry, there is actually multiple related posts being referred to. That is the original poster. In the OP, one of the suggestions made was to have bounty hunters drop gear if killed by a corrupted player they are hunting. This is essentially a reward system for corruption. It encourages players to kill green names, get corruption and trap bounty hunters to collect their gear. A corrupted teaming with their guild to ambush a bounty hunter is one option that comes to mind.
Anyway, I pointed out that a reward system is unlikely to be added to the corruption system, he responded, and the post that you responded to was my further response.
People will become corrupted simply because they want to PK. If you don't already know this, then browse through this thread. There are many people describing how much they want to be corrupted. The bounty hunter option is part of the system in place to keep these people in check so that they don't wreck the game for everyone else.
Example titles that your character can get stuck with and/or be proud to have (a title can be a bad thing too!)
Specifically kills that are Corruption causing, lawful kills would not count!
- Cowardly or Pathetic = Kill ## people who are a level 80% below yours in a week (i set a time limit such a week because if it's a never ending running tally then most any 10 year veteran would have this title eventually, but if you do this many in 1 week then clearly you are a douche bag worthy of this title, and the title is stuck above your head for all to see even when your shopping in town, all will know your shame! You can't toggle the title off!)
- Dishonorable = Kill ## people who are a level 40% below yours in a week
- Annoying = Kill ## Merchant/Vendor NPCs in a week
The above would be title most would hate having shown above their name, but tough, you earned it and now you dont have the option to turn off the title, for a set time or until maybe you do a quest to clean yourself you will walk around as "Drago the Pathetic" and everyone will know you got that title by ganking noobs.
- Malicious = Kill ## of player mounts (horses, turtles, stuffington, etc) in a week
- Outcast = Join and leave ## of Nodes or Guilds in a month
Some title are more elite, and require both a hgh level of karma as well as high fame, i.e. it's easy to be "bad" but to be "evil" means killing a whole nation. Or it's easy to get the title "Kind" but to be "Angelic" means saving a world from a demon lord.
- Glorious = During the life of your character be a general for ### successful node sieges
- Dread Lord = During the life of your character complete ### religious based quests that were defined as "evil" types of quests, kill this NPC, kill this religious leader, complete a quest to find and destroy a mythic ruby that held in it the power and love of the goddess of nature... etc, it would be a long list with high requirements.
- Wicked = Destroy ### of relgious artifacts that are catagorized as "good" religions
- Angelic = During the life of your character complete ### religious based quests that the devs have defined as good.
- Dark or Demon Lord = As a monster during a Monster Coin Event kill ### people
And of course we need lots of good titles:
- Kind = Complete ## bulletin board tasks in a week that involves saving animals
- Upstanding = Donate ### gold/embers to a religion or node construction project in a week
- Industrious = Complete ## construction projects at your node and Freehold
- Distinguished Lord = Complete a large number of multiple different types of Node objectives, donating to religions, providing mats in constructon projects, complete merchant quests, voting (more people vote when there's rewards for doing it, real life proves that!)
- Renaissance man or lady = Master multiple trade skills
- Socialite = Talk to ### different NPCs in multiple different Nodes
Man this is fun, I could go on for hours making up titles and requirements.
Oh we should even have polls in our node for titles to give to our node Mayor, the titles could be ones pre-picked by the devs to avoid non RP friendly titles. But perhaps once a month the Mayor has a poll automatically generated at the town hall that asks citizens to vote on what title the mayor has earned and it would range from (Infamous or Dastardly to Upstanding and Illustrious) thus if a Castle Monarch or Node Mayor leaves taxes at a very high rate for months and the citizens don't feel the taxes are just then they may vote him the title of "Wretched" or "Greedy" Or if the Mayor sets up a horrible caravan trade with another node to trade 1 diamond for 1 egg, either because he's that stupid or he was talked into doing it to make the female ruler of that node happy with him, then his citizens (just before voting him out for good) give him the title of "weak minded / feeble minded"
You know, although I want to be corrupted, I have 0 interest in killing low level players who are the new seeds that will populate the game even more.
If you take a look at the corruption system you fill find out that it's based around "the corrupted player has to die."
Why are we playing this prolonged game of bullshit. Just outright kill the player the moment they become corrupted, you dont need bounty hunters. I find the whole dampening of skills plain ridiculous. That's the only thing that bothers me.
No, no and no. I do plan on making my own guild hellbent on world domination. That means either subjugating other guilds or at constant war with them. Sieging other nodes as often as possible, destroying them then appoing one of my guild's members as a person in charge of that node. And so on and so on, untill all of the 100+ nodes are directly or indirectly under my rule. Kapish ?
M-Master... I will fight for your dream!
Ya, I think it sucks to kill players to a point that your PVP ineffective. On the other hand, people have been describing it as mainly (or only, I think) impacting players that kill green names in non-consensual PVP. It tends to just be PKers that should get stat reduction; and, that stat reduction apparently only culminates in being PVP ineffective after killing many green names. As a way of finally stopping such abusive behaviors, I suppose that it is acceptable.
I think I have read enough of this thread to get some idea of what you maybe are trying to say.
You want there to be OTHER ways to earn Corruption and through those means perhaps an unknown underground faction may become available where you can gain access to titles, Cosmetics to adorn your character and possibly cosmetic spell/abilities that would separate you from the masses as someone who is/has been corrupted for some length of time.
These things would not exclusively require you to PK. Perhaps there would be missions like Assassinating a Mayor or Guild Leader of a Castle or high level cleric of a religion, which would be reasonable expectations as they would be legitimate issues to deal with and make those roles a little more interesting. Yes it's a PK, but if you accept the responsibility of the role you accept the danger, much like running a caravan.
You would still get corruption, but as a mission type, you would also earn corruption points you would not get just killing random players for corruption, so the motivation for random PKing is further decreased.
Of course this would have to be a secret in the game until a player earned enough corruption and survived long enough to unlock some hidden dungeon or some such to unlock the Corrupted "religion" and build it up from there.
You could then apply the points you earn from the other means of earning corruption to buy cosmetics and level up within the ranks. You wouldn't gain access to any new skills, but maybe your spells/abilities have a more corrupted look to them.
Additional to the idea: I don't think metropolis can form in the underground nodes. So maybe there could a chance for a node to form a black market type town where corrupted wouldn't be auto attacked by guards.
Love a good story and lore.
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I dislike PKers, specially griefers, but I must agree this is bad game design. Punish reds in as many ways as possible if you want to, make them lose gear on death, shine a red dot on the World Map, but don't turn them into harmless things. Unless the game is able to detect someone who's just a griefer trying to make other people's experiences miserable, I think a debuff is unnecessary.
Why not? Making them unable to continue griefing seems perfectly fair if they’ve shown they can’t be trusted not to grief.
Don’t forget Corruption-based stat damps ONLY apply to PvP
Also, there is a thieves guild that will provide storyline, and they have discussed allowing players to go 'darker paths' regarding religious storyline. The wiki pages goes into more depth about the nuances and how and where corruption is a thing. (You can also look up factions for info about theives guild, scholars academy and trade company? Not sure on the name. Also more in depth look at religions).
Basically you can be a 'combatant' and not get corrupted. But you can't attack 'non-combantents' without getting corruption. However, if its an open battlefield, everyone's immediately a combatant, and you won't get corruption for pvp. The corruption system is more geared to prevent bullying. There's a lot of systems that allow active healthy pvp. Happy hunting 😁
As an analyst, it comes down to crime balance and law structure for continuous healthy player growth.