Poll + Bonus Dev Discussion - Multiboxing

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Comments

  • I accept it because I don't have a problem with it; I say the devs can't do anything about because they literally can't. They can catch the obvious botters that are already not allowed, but that won't work on someone manually running few account.

    Let's be real, this hate against multiboxers is nothing more than envy.

    I wouldn't call anything in the development world impossible and Steven said in his AMA stream it would just be hard to do. Hard and impossible aren't the same.

    Also, I can assure you I don't hate anybody.

    I can play on a second computer on a second $20 feed and they will never know.

    Envy isn't hate and it wasn't directed at you or every person against multiboxing.
  • papabear2009papabear2009 Member
    edited July 29


    P2W devs design their games to give an advantage to those who pay and generally intentionally inconvenience those who don't. Multiboxing is not designed to inconvenience those who don't do it and reasonable steps are taken to ensure that is don't get out of hand..

    I can play on a second computer on a second $20 feed and they will never know.

    Envy isn't hate and it wasn't directed at you or every person against multiboxing.


    It seems like your idea P2W is very personalized to yourself with it being when a game is designed to encourage a player to spend money.

    Pay to win/pay for convenience is just an act of a player spending money to gain an advantage. Multi-boxers are paying to gain an advantage over others. Also, another good way to make sure multi-boxing doesn't get out of hand is to just not allow it.

    Also just because they might not catch you doesn't mean it shouldn't be against terms of service. I know there are a lot of well-scripted bots out there that haven't been caught.

    Its like J-walking laws, its there to discourage the act but very few people will get punished for it.

  • I Don't have that strong of an opinion one way or another, that being said, I have used "multiboxing" to run around on my character along with my wife's character tagging along when she can't play. I get that this is not what the topic is heavily hitting on, but that IS an example and it would be a bummer if that was not allowed. If resources in world are not mutli-tappable (each person withing a certain amount of time can collect from it), then it doesn't matter as much imo, seeing as how thats what I consider the biggest impact with multiboxing.
  • Tiberious wrote: »
    I Don't have that strong of an opinion one way or another, that being said, I have used "multiboxing" to run around on my character along with my wife's character tagging along when she can't play. I get that this is not what the topic is heavily hitting on, but that IS an example and it would be a bummer if that was not allowed. If resources in world are not mutli-tappable (each person withing a certain amount of time can collect from it), then it doesn't matter as much imo, seeing as how thats what I consider the biggest impact with multiboxing.

    But there are some special nodes that will be mutli-tappable.
  • YodamooYodamoo Member
    When it comes right down to it, it doesn't matter what people are allowed to do. You can't do IP tracking effectively due to families and room mates playing together and there are so many ways to run multiple accounts on multiple PCs or Virtual machines without being detected.

    The only way this can be handled properly is visually. Take WoW for example....You see 10 druids flying together, landing together, attacking with the same abilities together...so obviously all being controlled at once by one key stroke, they should be insta permabanned!!! Sadly the only way to "Detect" this is to see it with your eyes. If GMs are going to be watching for this then great, no problem!

    Aside from this, I am fine with people having multiple accounts that they have to control separately as long as there is a way to ensure that's how it's being done!
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • YodamooYodamoo Member
    Tiberious wrote: »
    I Don't have that strong of an opinion one way or another, that being said, I have used "multiboxing" to run around on my character along with my wife's character tagging along when she can't play. I get that this is not what the topic is heavily hitting on, but that IS an example and it would be a bummer if that was not allowed. If resources in world are not mutli-tappable (each person withing a certain amount of time can collect from it), then it doesn't matter as much imo, seeing as how thats what I consider the biggest impact with multiboxing.

    I agree that nodes should not be multi use...once the ore is gone it should be gone. Or at least put a limit on how much can come from it.

    I do not agree with you playing your wifes account because she is busy and unable to....She should not be able to advance in the game without advancing in the game herself. She is gaining an advantage that she did not earn by having you do the work for her. I get that life happens and games are often not a priority, but there is no reason she should be able to advance without doing the work herself. imo
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • TremTrem Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    "I agree with Intrepid's decision to allow multiboxing from separate computers without automated/macro or keystroke mimicking software."

    This is not even multiboxing. It is just having more separate accounts on more separate computers.

    This should be totally allowed. If someone is able to play the game on more separate accounts and computers manually without the help of botting softwares, then I don't see the issue. It is the same as playing with your partner or family members on more accounts and softwares.

    I would even go as far to say that playing on the same computer with different accounts should be allowed, as long as there are no extra softwares involved. Alt-Tabbing is a bitch, but as long as you play with both accounts manually then why not?
  • YodamooYodamoo Member
    Trem wrote: »
    "I agree with Intrepid's decision to allow multiboxing from separate computers without automated/macro or keystroke mimicking software."

    This is not even multiboxing. It is just having more separate accounts on more separate computers.

    This should be totally allowed. If someone is able to play the game on more separate accounts and computers manually without the help of botting softwares, then I don't see the issue. It is the same as playing with your partner or family members on more accounts and softwares.

    I would even go as far to say that playing on the same computer with different accounts should be allowed, as long as there are no extra softwares involved. Alt-Tabbing is a bitch, but as long as you play with both accounts manually then why not?

    100% this! Too many people bickering about the definition of multiboxing....People who are complaining about multiboxing are almost all talking about the bad kind that used software to essentially bot. People blabbing about the definition of multiboxing are not helping anything.

    I can't see why anyone would have a problem with anyone having multiple account that they have to use separately. There is very little advantage to something like that except maybe exploiting the family travel thing, but even that would be dealt with fairly easily I think.
    NEVER GIVE UP, NEVER SURRENDER!!!
  • hkkhkk Member
    if the game doesn't have the following command, so the player needs to manually move two characters which are impossible without 3rd party software I am okay with it.

    the player will need to make effort to level the atl profession and sometimes it is not smart to have all the professions, wasting time on doing it from ground zero, while would it be much easier to buy the mat and sell the final product for less profit but saving the most important thing (Time).

    for me with Multiboxing I just don't want to see someone running and behind him multiple alts following him with buffs.

    this game also doesn't have labor like AA so for me i see alts are not that useful ( from an economic point of view where buying mats better than gathering them on an alt )

    for the freehold is a bit of a problem, i am not sure at what level u can place a freehold because if someone wants to place multiple freeholds from multiple accounts, if there is like 15 days of content play requirements then he won't be able to be faster from everyone and place two or more.


  • TheLegend27TheLegend27 Member
    edited July 29
    Yeah, I don't get it why are people asking others to provide solutions to stop multi-boxing. How the hell are we supposed to know, we're not developers but that doesn't mean you can't point out the problems of letting people multi-box.

    Because if we (the community) probably can't find a way to stop this "problem", chances are the devs can't either... probably because it's something that will ALWAYS have a circumvention. So, it's not worth the devs time in providing a "flimsy" solution or selling us a dream that "multiboxing will be impossible". I completely respect Intrepid's stance.

    P.S. As a Software Engineer, I can comfortably say (multi-pc) multiboxing will exist, regardless of whatever barriers you put into place to contain it. IP Ban? They'll use a VPN. Account Ban? Buy another Sub on a new account. The list goes on.
    For AoC, this is not worth the energy.
  • miaomiaomiaomiao Member, Braver of Worlds
    It's hard to prevent people from just buying a second account and computer, it's possible to restrict multiboxing further but could create conflict with other people playing in the same house. I'm content with the current stance from Intrepid there is not much else you can do without creating conflict.
  • DierseusDierseus Member
    Seems like many people will be satisfied if you just come out and say that multiboxing will be banned but enforcing it will be difficult, similar to your Gold selling stance. I know it isnt a perfect comparison because on the other side of multiboxing is shared household players, but, even if people will still sell gold you wouldnt say it is allowed because you cant completely stop it.

    I feel like if I really wanted to I (which I dont, it sounds really tedious) and many others could get around any restrictions you put in place, but by "allowing" it you give people the green light to think it is okay and almost tacitly encourage them. Use your rules to shape the behaviour which our community deems acceptable even if it may be difficult to enforce and some multiboxers still get through due to also making room for people playing in the same household. I see it going something like this "My friend is multiboxing, seeing more success and intrepid dont seem to care so I might as well do it to get maximum benefits" whereas what you really want is "So and so is multiboxing which is kind of shitty and is running the risk of getting banned so fuck risking that".
  • SandmanSandman Member
    I'm ok with a different computer running it, the subscription alone will help deter this. However there will still be people who try to abuse it, but this is where your active GM and the community can instantly be effective. If a players has someone following him ok no big deal maybe his brother is afk farming for him, hard to prove. If we see 5 players that look a like and are all following 1 person that's obvioulsy a red flag.

    From what I have heard you backend monitoring of unusal activity, along with active GM's and a supportiive community help solve this issue.
  • I disagree with the decision to allow multiboxing, but I don't have any creative solutions on how you'd police it when multiple people play from the same location, or even legitimately from the same computer, such as in a house that only has one computer that everyone in the family uses.

    Without considering the possible implications on the in-game economy, my concern is actually just that people will evade bans and other punishments for poor behaviour if their effort is spread among multiple accounts because they stand to loose less from having one of them banned as they would if all of their effort was on one account. So whatever punishments you have in place for certain offences will be less of a disincentive for these people.

    I also think it's important to be able to block players you don't like from contacting you again, and a multiboxer can just harass you on different accounts. I'd like to imagine that when I need to block someone, I'm actually not going to hear from them again.
  • RovinRovin Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    As long as they are not multiboxing on the same pc or using a Virtual Machine to multibox on the same pc i dont see a problem with it.
  • grisugrisu Member
    I voted, sure allow it the way Intrepid defined it cause in the end I don't care as long as it isn't automated in any way, shape, form or extend. I never multi boxed and could afford any and all vanity/gold sink/ utility/prestige items in any game I played. There was a time in WoW where I supplied our 25man 3 days a week raid with all foods/flasks/pots just because I could without even taking a dip in my hoard.
    I don't need it, but if someone wants to horde gold for x reasons or support their guild more by exchanging their rl time and money then that's how it is.

    I can be a life fulfilling dream. Grisu
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    Tsukasa wrote: »
    ...Do you see that, Intrepid?
    People don't care about whether or not it's good for the game, they only think about themselves ...
    grisu wrote: »
    I don't care
    grisu wrote: »
    if someone wants to horde gold by exchanging their rl time and money then that's how it is.

    Well that is taking other peoples comments somewhat out of context...
  • grisugrisu Member
    tenor.gif

    Yeah that's typical of @Tsukasa ripping shit out of context. Not like I said I don't care under these conditions which aligns with what I voted for.
    Multiboxing doesn't get you skill,
    multiboxing doesn't get you better items then other people have.
    Multiboxing won't make you progress faster.
    If you feel the need tomultibox because you can't handle logistic on one account then you are just not good enough.
    If you need 2 personal freeholds because you have no guild or friends that can offer crafting stations that you have in cities too then I guess you can supplement it with an additional 15€ to even out those disadvantages.
    And if you feel like you can't compete with that, then again you simply aren't good enough.

    Okay I'm starting to get mean so I'll just stop and be on my way of not caring enough aside of getting a giggle out of it.
    I can be a life fulfilling dream. Grisu
    I can be a life devouring nightmare. Zekece#1819
  • After reading all of these posts I believe there are a significant amount of respondents who all have different definition of multiboxing.

    If you changed the question to "Should people be allowed to buy multiple accounts, but are only allowed to play them one at a time? I have a feeling you would get a lot different response.

    With the statement that "No macros/scripts, must interact one at a time" effectively it really becomes a question should people be allowed to have/pay for multiple accounts, it is no longer a question about "true multiboxing".
  • mrwafflesmrwaffles Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
    ODXTIcI.png

    The fact you are having to go to this length is absurd. The real root / problem people want to avoid is Bots. I'm a solo player. I HATE joining guilds. I love the open world and that there are others in it but I like to unwind and just go kill mobs. I have always multi boxed to buff or heal my self. I do not need to do this in all games but some times it's nice. I end up doing a butt ton of work to lvl up the other account. It's twice the effort and I'm willing to do this.

    I'm a developer IRL and for everyone out there I can tell you I have made software to get around every single anti cheat I have ever played. I almost always post my findings to the forums and submit bug tickets. AutoIt will let you emulate mouse and keyboard and makes it hard to even detect that there is software doing this (it's in VB so i dont use it often).

    Final point, If the community is trying to avoid Bots then stopping multi boxing is not going to stop that. Hinder it yes, but not stop it. You'll only end up hurting AOC revenue and annoying people like me who just want to play by them selves.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member
    grisu wrote: »
    Multiboxing doesn't get you skill,
    multiboxing doesn't get you better items then other people have.
    Multiboxing won't make you progress faster.
    If you feel the need tomultibox because you can't handle logistic on one account then you are just not good enough.
    If you need 2 personal freeholds because you have no guild or friends that can offer crafting stations that you have in cities too then I guess you can supplement it with an additional 15€ to even out those disadvantages.
    And if you feel like you can't compete with that, then again you simply aren't good enough.
    Probably the best description as to why I don't get why people are against it.

    To me, multiboxing is a thing I do if I enjoy the game in general, and have friends there, but find that when I am unable to group up with people I like there is no challenging content.

    Multiboxing is the only thing I have found to fill that content gap, and it actually takes a lot of time to master (though I like to think I have mastered it by now), and tends to cost more in both in game currency and time than the "rewards" you get out of it are worth.
  • Geez, seeing the poll results this will continue to be a heated discussion.
    Since it's 58/42 split on Allow/Ban (currently) I would suggest going one step further with the poll and ask the "I would be fine if it's allowed" crowd if they would also be fine with it being banned.
    I, for example, am perfectly fine with it being allowed between multiple devices or even on one device as long as the usage of scripts etc. is turned down a lot.

    For example, if someone wants to be a spy and gather intel and uses 3-4 accounts with Rogues on them, which he will place all around the map in hiding to spy on other guilds/nodes, I would be fine with that.
    Yes, it is an advantage but you can achieve that with multiple players (which you should be doing anyway in an MMO) as well.
    I doubt anyone would actually do this without multiboxing in the first place.

    What I wouldn't like to see are the type of multiboxers who run around in one place with all their characters and who can execute multiple commands on all accounts at once.
  • I believe Current Intrepid stance on multiboxing is correct and reasonable, wasting time/effort dealing with mere non-automated multiboxing instead of true evil like RMTs, Bots and Exploiters would be unreasonable.
  • pls dont allow any sort of multiboxing.. weither you set restrictions on it or not... people will exploit it with the benefits to gain gold/materials or what so ever ingame..

    and the multiboxers will exploit it to his finest...



  • WMC51WMC51 Member
    pls dont allow any sort of multiboxing.. weither you set restrictions on it or not... people will exploit it with the benefits to gain gold/materials or what so ever ingame..

    and the multiboxers will exploit it to his finest...



    Impossible to stop multiboxing.
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