Poll + Bonus Dev Discussion - Multiboxing

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  • DarktideDarktide Member
    edited August 3
    There are good arguments on both sides.

    Truth be told, there are actual companies with the knowledge, resources and infrastructure to infest just about any game with farming techniques. VPN architecture, virtual desktops, IP Spoofing, these are all tactics employed by such "farmers".

    I personally do enjoy running multiple accounts and find it very useful. Usually it's just an alt account that is for example a completely different class that's in high-demand. Or an account to sit around the guild hall and handle administration tasks, building, farming, etc. I don't know how the game will lend to alt usage, but it's typically one of my priorities to figure out how to leverage an alt account to get the most benefit out of it. Ultimately is it worth it? That all depends on the individual and his/her use-case.
  • SSkillaSSkilla Member
    I am a min-max player (opposite of an alt-aholic) meaning I prefer to play on 1 character on 1 account dedicating 100% of my time in 1 character's growth.

    My main question is:

    Will I be significantly at a disadvantage playing this way versus a multi-boxer?

    Could you provide any examples of how long-term differences would exist between a player like me versus a player that multi-boxes say 2 computers (without macros or programs) using only in-game mechanics (follow, keystrokes, etc.)?
  • papabear2009papabear2009 Member
    edited August 3
    SSkilla wrote: »
    I am a min-max player (opposite of an alt-aholic) meaning I prefer to play on 1 character on 1 account dedicating 100% of my time in 1 character's growth.

    My main question is:

    Will I be significantly at a disadvantage playing this way versus a multi-boxer?

    Could you provide any examples of how long-term differences would exist between a player like me versus a player that multi-boxes say 2 computers (without macros or programs) using only in-game mechanics (follow, keystrokes, etc.)?

    Just read old posts, a lot of people have given good examples on how multiboxing gives a P2W advantage.
  • Make it 1 account per person and have these accounts bound/verified by phone number or the like. Implement 3rd program restrictions and allow multiple clients per device/household.

    A subscription fee, a phone number requirement and the necessary program restrictions should dissuade most if not all meaningful multiboxing, while allowing every type of household to attend.
  • Personally i don´t have a problem with multiboxing, so i am fine with allowing it.
  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    Hopefully wrote: »
    Make it 1 account per person and have these accounts bound/verified by phone number or the like. Implement 3rd program restrictions and allow multiple clients per device/household.

    A subscription fee, a phone number requirement and the necessary program restrictions should dissuade most if not all meaningful multiboxing, while allowing every type of household to attend.

    So you want to force me to buy an extra cell phone if I want to play with the kids? They don't have their own phones.
  • Hopefully wrote: »
    Make it 1 account per person and have these accounts bound/verified by phone number or the like. Implement 3rd program restrictions and allow multiple clients per device/household.

    A subscription fee, a phone number requirement and the necessary program restrictions should dissuade most if not all meaningful multiboxing, while allowing every type of household to attend.

    So you want to force me to buy an extra cell phone if I want to play with the kids? They don't have their own phones.

    As mentioned by others before, this is easily fixed by Intrepid setting up a system where parent accounts/phones can host. With some clever set ups this could work without allowing people to abuse the system for multiboxing.
  • zklzkl Member
    A phone number is meaningless and doesn't prevent anything.

    There's services (Android application, free) that will give you a temporary phone number you can use for SMS.

    You could buy a prepaid phone and activate it.

    And if there's a notion of "parent accounts/phone", what stops someone from claiming the accounts are being used by his kids ? Intrepid cannot possibly investigate to find out if a player really has kids or not.

    The only way you can tell if someone is multi boxing is by profiling their behaviors in game as well as their inputs. ( data collection and analysis, based on training data obtained from actual single and multi boxers )

    This can still be faked, but if you use artificial intelligence, you can keep training it with the latest cheat tools. Good luck to multi boxers and cheaters trying to reproduce behavior and inputs that are indistinguishable from real humans playing the game 1 client at a time.

  • Polls are a good thing. Unlike other games which don't care what players think.
  • BoomBoom Member
    edited August 4
    I think multiboxing is absolutely pay to win. If I were able to pay $60 a month to get 4x the HP, 4x the damage, 4x the XP, and 4x the quest rewards, and being able to heal myself while also tanking it would be considered as such. Having a program control four separate accounts is somehow different. This especially goes against what we've been told is the planned culture of the game by the creators which was to encourage community and have players rely on others for professions and progress.

    I would be curious how many players plan to multibox against how many don't. That number would give an idea of how much potential money would be gained by allowing it. I wouldn't think even a full percent would do it myself, but a poll could give an idea of it.
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  • Undead CanuckUndead Canuck Member, Braver of Worlds
    So if paying extra money is so horrible, then what about the referral system?

    I have an account and refer all my friends. 7 of them try the game and love it. Since all 7 now have subs, I am paying $0. If I now create another account and pay for it, I now have 2 accounts but am only paying 1 subscription amount.

    This right here negates all of the arguements about 1 person paying more than $15 (or whatever it ends up being).
  • I'm not entirely sure if we're even operating by the same term of what Multi boxing is. If you aren't playing 2 or more accounts at the same exact time to the same effect you would as playing with an actual player then it's not Multi boxing. It's having 2 accounts you play 1 at a time.

    I specifically only really care if people can play with themselves and not require other players otherwise they glorified mules you are paying extra money for. Still it is pay to win and it was stated there will be none of that.
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  • edited August 5
    Hey. Bittner here.
    This files under the realm of automatic gameplay. Since the multi boxers would only realistically be playing one character with several others be automatic. This is of course a personal opinion but anything like this, or even add ons that are for "convenience" may not be game breaking in low usage, but for example 8 add ons, or extra character in use later can degrade the intended core game play designs.
    However, this is still a business and a muti boxers, especially ones that like their toons to look the same with cosmetic gear, can be huge factors and not to be over looked easily. So I understand.
    Love. Bittner.

    EDIT: After reading more, I have a much better understanding of the teams stance on this and 10000% agree. We will be having many people playing this in my house and for sure do not want there to be hurdles to jump be able to that.
  • Arag0nArag0n Member
    edited August 4
    I personally think it can hurt the economy if things are easily accessible upon creating a new character! For example in many games you have tutorials which give decent rewards to entice players to actually complete them. As long as this game doesn't have this or if it does that these rewards would be bound to account and thus being untradeable rewards, this would prevent players by "farming" rewards by multiboxing.

    As well as that, if events and such also have easy accessible rewards, or rewards which are limited to obtain, for example, and event comes along and everyone gets a free "something good" by just inputting a few minutes, then this can be a huge benefit for multi boxers.

    So in essence I have nothing against multibxing as long as the ingame rewards take effort to obtain and are not limited per account!
  • CalaQuendiRCalaQuendiR Member
    edited August 4
    The way i see it is that "multiboxing" (multiple pcs with the same ip) SHOULD be allowed in every single mmorpg out there and honestly i can't understand why some people just don't get it.There are so many different occasions where more than 2-3 actual human beings play a game together through the same ip, like families/roommates or even a group of friends who decided to get together and play during a big event/siege because it will be a memorable experience for them. How can you say to them "sorry these kinds of things are not allowed" are you nuts ?
    Stop trying to make it so some people won't be allowed to play the game only because it doesn't affect you. Just make sure that the ratio of pc to game client will be 1:1.
    The real subject for discussion should be, how well prepared intrepid will be against the usage of bots, scripts, multiboxing using VM and software of that sort .

    BTW Intrepid if you decide not to remove the family summoning skill, at least increase the cooldown of it to 10-12hours or something, otherwise it can be (and will be) abused with so many ways especially by well organized guilds/parties :pensive:
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  • Aren't understanding what Multi boxing is. It's when 1 guy is controlling all this stuff by himself. Nobody is opposing playing with physical other people.

    It's a huge point that pisses people off because people in WoW Multi box entire dungeon groups by themselves. A lot of stuff in the game is locked behind dungeons so being able to do that by yourself is an advantage that is too great.
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  • I have 3 4k monitors hooked up to my computer, back in L2 days I would have my main char on one, then my Elven Elder (healer) on one and my Prophet (buffer) on the 3rd, all in a group lvling together mostly healing and dpsing on the two... same computer I think should be fine, as long as there are no macros and crap like that.
  • Well hopefully this game is a little more complicated so you can't control 3 characters at once legit. XD
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  • So if paying extra money is so horrible, then what about the referral system?

    I have an account and refer all my friends. 7 of them try the game and love it. Since all 7 now have subs, I am paying $0. If I now create another account and pay for it, I now have 2 accounts but am only paying 1 subscription amount.

    This right here negates all of the arguements about 1 person paying more than $15 (or whatever it ends up being).


    No it doesn't, that point doesn't even make it to the debate floor. Just because it isn't $15 doesn't mean its value is gone. The friend referral has the same value of $15 in this instance and a large player base won't even have 1 friend referral attached on their account.


  • Yuyukoyay wrote: »
    Well hopefully this game is a little more complicated so you can't control 3 characters at once legit. XD

    I mean in pvp, sure... but pve, the group being in a dungeon room where no one moves, and all you do is pull and kill the mob, single target heal with the buff class in the back doing nothing, I mean that's feasible...
  • kuddahkuddah Member
    Shouldn’t allow, game isn’t pay to win. Let’s make it as fair as possible ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
  • I'm not sure why so many people here are trying to change the definition of multiboxing.

    Multiboxing has always been (and will always be) when someone is running around with multiple characters controlling them all simultaneously with linked inputs. Examples of this is people running around with 5 shamans in WoW, they all cast Chain Lightning at the same time and one shot someone. A party of 4 mages and 1 priest running around spamming Arcane Explosion and Holy Nova to easily AoE farm open world areas or dungeons.

    Botting/scripting is when the player does not have to actively input any commands and the game plays itself, you can see examples of this in usually mid-level hunters that mindless grind the same routes to level up, or bots which players run to queue for and play Alterac Valley battlegrounds overnight while they are sleeping. There is even parties of bots which endlessly farm dungeons

    Owning and playing 2 accounts, is just that. Here it is in Steven's own words - https://clips.twitch.tv/AssiduousGracefulCocoaBrainSlug - This is clearly the right mindset, but I'm not sure how limiting a PC to 1 client (posted in News in the discord) goes along with this? Multiboxing is bad and should not be (and isn't) allowed. Botting/scripting is bad and should not be (and isn't) allowed. Owning and playing 2 accounts is neither of those, and is allowed. Why should we need a second gaming rig for that though?
  • I voted for 3rd option,i understand that people should play with their gfs,cousins or roommates in general in the same house and same IP adress,but unlike archeage,there should be restrictions and moderation to avoid other people from buying multiple accounts and just exploit everything including land spots
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      • SorianLoreSorianLore Member
        edited August 4
        burl3yb0y wrote: »
        I'm not sure why so many people here are trying to change the definition of multiboxing.

        Multiboxing has always been (and will always be) when someone is running around with multiple characters controlling them all simultaneously with linked inputs. Examples of this is people running around with 5 shamans in WoW, they all cast Chain Lightning at the same time and one shot someone.

        Not true. Before Wow there was L2, and in that game we multi-boxing meant having multiple clients open yes, but not using linked inputs as you say. that's part of scripting as it would require an external tool (other than the clients) to send inputs to the specific windows/clients.
      • BlackdimaBlackdima Member
        edited August 4
        I don't really like the idea of multiboxing at all. Whether it's used for combat or for utility, playing against (or with) someone that is multiboxing just wouldn't feel good as a player. It would make my own accomplishments feel diminished and create an unfair playing field. In my eyes it skirts the line of P2W, albeit in a roundabout way. People can pay to have an advantage over others, which is basically the definition of P2W. Even if it's just scouting, being a spy, etc.

        Also I feel like the type of people to multibox are the type that will do whatever it takes to get that advantage. They have already taken that extra step past normal gameplay, that downloading a simple keystroke duplicator or similar wouldn't be too far off for them. Macros and duplicators are such a simple and abundant program that I think it would be very hard for anticheat and security teams to detect them consistently.
      • Blackdima wrote: »
        I don't really like the idea of multiboxing at all. Whether it's used for combat or for utility, playing against (or with) someone that is multiboxing just wouldn't feel good as a player. It would make my own accomplishments feel diminished and create an unfair playing field. In my eyes it skirts the line of P2W, albeit in a roundabout way. People can pay to have an advantage over others, which is basically the definition of P2W. Even if it's just scouting, being a spy, etc.

        Also I feel like the type of people to multibox are the type that will do whatever it takes to get that advantage. They have already taken that extra step past normal gameplay, that downloading a simple keystroke duplicator or similar wouldn't be too far off for them. Macros and duplicators are such a simple and abundant program that I think it would be very hard for anticheat and security teams to detect them consistently.

        I disagree that folks who multi box are 1 step away from downloading macro/scripts etc to automate key strokes.

        For example, I play with my oldest son (and by the time the game comes out possibly two of my sons) and yet I want to keep us together in levels, but we won't be playing together all the time. like I work 9-5, he's just got school to worry about lol, also when he goes to bed, I play for another 4-6 hours, so unless we gain the same amount of exp when not playing together, one will get ahead. Now, not saying it would be easy, but being able to sit him down in a corner (and hi I when he's playing without me) while I grind out a dungeon room with some guildies, setting his char on auto follow while we travel, I think is fine. Keep in mind the pvp aspect of the game. dragging around an extra account means that if I can't defeat the enemy solo (am sorry but one can't multi-box pvp lol), then both chars are dead.
      • lokispawnslokispawns Member, Leader of Men, Early Alpha One Tester
        Depending on the pace, coordination, and general upkeep of skills / buffs / attacks rotation, multiboxing may be nigh impossible anyway.. but in relaxed, non pvp, non raid, farming type situations, it can help a person unable to commit to groups / guilds with their time constraints be able to do more in the game than they otherwise would be able to, as well as increase support / income for the development.

        Now when multiboxing is paired with anti-EULA programs like bots that can play a character nearly as well as the average skilled player, is when things get out of hand. It's likely easier for Ashes to prohibit and control multiboxing than it is for them to always seek out the ever-dodging hackers that will cheat at any cost.

        Which is why it's probably (and unfortunately, dare I say) best to severely limit multiboxing to begin with... Unfortunately, becauseI happen to be a fan of running multiple toons and making my own groups like I used to do in Everquest, but then people with MQ2 (cheat bot program) took it to the next, unhealthy, level.. and could dominate group and raid content on their own without the help of others. I'm sure that's never been in the vision of any MMO developers nor myself.
      • Lineage 2 had botting and multi boxing at the same time. People used to run leveling scripts and sell the accounts. It's also why you would die to a rouge archer every now and then with unbelievable gear drops.
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      • DaiskaDaiska Member
        I'm glad this was asked in a poll format. Sometimes people are afraid to post an opinion because some very vocal ones who disagree tend to be confrontational. This applies to so many things, the quiet majority stay quiet.
      • I don't think I'm very scary. I got a fairy in my signature. Better watch out I might hug you.
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