The Corruption System won't be enough to stop Mass Streamer Griefing
CaptnChuck
Member
Watch this video, from 1:49:40 to 1:51:10.
This is what I said before, about how the corruption system won't be sufficient enough to stop heavy griefing for streamers.
There are several ways to abuse this system. Players can create new accounts on the server that the streamer is playing on, and mass grief him/her. There wouldn't be any way to stop this as low levels won't care about dropping their gear. For the PvP dampening effect to take place, it only comes to players that repeatedly kill innocent people. This means that if a 100 trolls were to create a new account on the same server as say, Asmongold, he would have to die over 200 to 300 times before these trolls became combat ineffective. I'm not sure how that would be fun for anyone.
People, back then, told me that it wouldn't be a problem at all. I really hope Steven recognizes this issue and fixes it. There are several ways to do it, such as including the ability to be immune to player damage, for a while, after dying a certain number of times. This effect can be paused when the player enters PvP instances, like caravan PvP, Sieges, Arenas, etc.
What do you guys think?
This is what I said before, about how the corruption system won't be sufficient enough to stop heavy griefing for streamers.
There are several ways to abuse this system. Players can create new accounts on the server that the streamer is playing on, and mass grief him/her. There wouldn't be any way to stop this as low levels won't care about dropping their gear. For the PvP dampening effect to take place, it only comes to players that repeatedly kill innocent people. This means that if a 100 trolls were to create a new account on the same server as say, Asmongold, he would have to die over 200 to 300 times before these trolls became combat ineffective. I'm not sure how that would be fun for anyone.
People, back then, told me that it wouldn't be a problem at all. I really hope Steven recognizes this issue and fixes it. There are several ways to do it, such as including the ability to be immune to player damage, for a while, after dying a certain number of times. This effect can be paused when the player enters PvP instances, like caravan PvP, Sieges, Arenas, etc.
What do you guys think?
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Comments
The question here is not if corruption system is enough to stop griefing, the question is what measures would be enough and if they are worth it. Personally, purely for the growth of the game, i think it would be. Giving streamers special priviliges and protections IN EXCHANGE for limitting some of their impact on the game should probably happen. What i mean is, maybe they should have anti-stream sniping anti griefing extra protections. Maybe killing streamer should be more punishable than other players. Maybe they should have special accounts.
Because its totally true that vieweship decreases a lot when streamer gets camped/underperforms and they tend to quit if game isnt fun. That's the marketting standpoint and there is NO better marketting than having Asmon or Soda or Summit play your game.
But such privilges should come at a cost. Yes, being a streamer fucks people like asmongold over. Yes corruption system would be ineffective. But being a large personality also comes with huge benefits. Such as effectively being able to become mayor of any given scientific node whenever you want at a drop of a hat. Such as easily gathering multiple guilds worth of people to do your bidding. I believe AoC should create special "steamer account" that they give big estabilished content creators that has both bonuses and nerfs on them to balance their existence within a server as well as protect them form unreasonable griefing.
Maybe on servers dedicated to them before, so if you dont like that you can just not play there, and if they dont like being limitted in the benefits, they can just get ganked or not stream. Its a very hard balancing act but i think we need it. Fairness or perfect balance not is not worth it if its at a cost of fun or worse - population
I see no reason why a player that is importing that along with them should be any different.
I heard a bird ♫
Like @noaani said, if people hate the streamer they will have to deal with the issue. That’s something the streamer will have to deal with, and I assume most streamers are used to it because they’ll experience that everywhere already.
You clearly didnt see streamers play mmos with pvp. The "reward" for griefing is "being on the stream". Griefing andy will come and fuck you up. He will run for 2 hours to where you are with boner ripping through his pants and keep trying to ruin your day because he thinks its funny. He will spam N words to try to get streamer banned too, jump around naked, swarm him with others to make viewing experience for chat worse. People like that exist and there are many of them. And that hurts massive free marketting intrepid would be getting. But i agree invulnerabilities are stupid.
I hope you also wont mind streamer comming to your server and warping economy around themselves and then quit and leave everything fucked up then. I mean, if 50-100 thousand viewer streamer wants to do that, we have to deal with consequences of it. Right?
Hardcore PvP People ask for PvP Servers. The answer is NO.
Roleplayers ask for a Roleplayer Server. The Answer is NO.
Streamers ask for a Streamer Server. The answer should be NO.
If you want to stream a PvP Game, then you should expect PvP, you don't request bonuses for PvP if you are a streamer. Then all the PvPers would become streamers. How then would you differentiate who gets the BONUS and who doesn't get the BONUS? Through Streamer Size?
You've not been paying much attention to my general opinion on things if you thought I would answer that any other way.
yea but that would require system in place to make such griefing bannable. And since its a pvp game with corruption system, i dont see why would murdering people all the time be against terms of service. Or swarming them, stealing their stuff, and stream sniping cant be proven. So its not just as easy as "DM attention" especially since many streamers would play this game, and there is no way we will have THAT many dms.
As they progress a little in the game and they become more organized with their followers things get a little more complicated. If you are streaming your dungeon run, people WILL ghost you, and I personally find it the most despicable thing you can do to a streamer. The only things a streamer can do is put on a stream delay, not stream at those times, or work with developers to create an effective solution.
In the late game streamers can become... MASTERS OF THE UNIVERSE!!! This is when those large followings become massive benefits. So many followers will allow streamers to influence nodes across a large portion of the map, and make it difficult for smaller communities to influence the world, and sometimes even participate in late game content (especially with the concept of open world events and dungeons).
Ultimately I think streamers are good for the game, and I hope the developers will work with streamers to prevent ghosting and similar issues. I also hope streamers don't try to dominate entire servers of the game! I didn't address many issues related to streamers, but overall I hope this is what you were looking for.
Edit:
This is an older video that goes into depth on the issues of ghosting from the streamers perspective.
So, if one is a problem, then the opposite is a problem as well. There isn't really any way to deal with people wanting to kill you or protect your life.
Pretty much this, anyone can put a delay on their stream, no one should receive special treatment because they stream, they have their mass of followers to protect them if they are doing something "important". Stream a PvP game expect PvP. Have an issue with someone bothering you? I'm sure you have people you can call on to assist you on combating the griefing just as any other normal person would have to do.
yes i havent. And i had no expectations. One thing however i did see was "if i even play the game" so im not sure how seriously i can take it. But streamers ruining servers and destroying fun for hundreds and thousands of people is a legitimate thing that happened before and is a real concern. And its a concern better adressed before. I mean maybe you think its fine to lose all your shit and have to restart in new server. I think most people would just quit. And population driven game should not just leave that up to, oh well players will deal with it.
Its different as these players bring a TON of new people into your game. Its in your best interest to protect them. Just look at all the popularity increase after Asmongold's interview with Steven.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/44956/streamer-privilege-to-those-that-come-from-twitch
They just have to deal with what you do or do not bring to the game, just like every other player has to deal with what they do or do not bring to the game.
Again, read the forum post I linked above. They won't be able to run around ruining servers like in other games. Even if a server exchange service can be bought in the shop, streamers only go to other servers when they run out of content on their own server, which happens a lot with WoW. It will take a LONG time for that to happen in AoC.
When this does happen, it will most likely be between other servers with streamers. I can expect streamers like Asmongold, Tim, Summit and Shroud to be in servers with other streamers, simply for the content potential of it. And when they run out of it, they will switch to another server with a popular streamer in it. So realistically, you can expect there to be about 3 or 4 "streamer" in NA, that these streamers will keep switching between. As for EU, it will probably be even lesser.
If they don't get bored of the game, their viewers will get bored of it.
No. Do not equate them to normal players. They are content creators, so they will have a MUCH higher amount of people wanting to harass them than an average player. They bring attention to your game, so its your duty to protect them from harassment.
Its important to make changes to the corruption system so that it affects High level griefing significantly, which won't be experienced by 95% of the playerbase.
So I'm not sure this will be a real problem, but perhaps it's something that can be tested in Alpha or Beta, where there's no NDA and streamers will be active.
It is not our duty to protect them, it is our duty to play the game as intended. If the game is shit then people won't play it, if the game is good, people will play it. It makes no difference what a Streamer says because there will be reviews, content creators which aren't streamers, tips and tricks creators, Crafting Guides, Class Guides and countless other guides eventually.
It's no ones duty to protect anyone.
If they go to a game knowing it is PvP, then that is on them.
All they need to do to get around it is to level up while not streaming - but they won't do that because they are not getting paid if they are not streaming.
It will be an issue at all times. Based on what we know about the corruption system, a player won't be HIGHLY corrupted from a single kill. It will take around 2 or 3 kills for a player to be HIGHLY corrupted and suffer from dmg loss and gear loss chance. So a group of 3 people, even at higher levels, can kill him 3 times, with 0 counterplay. Since a player doesn't gain corruption from assists, 1 player can kill him once, with the help of the other 2, then he can resort to using cc and letting the other 2 deal the dmg, then 2 of them can resort to using cc while the final one does the dmg. In this manner, they can kill him 3 times without being corrupted. And obviously, the higher the no. of people that want to do this, the easier it becomes.
But yes, the starting zone will be the most troublesome.
Every kill reduces your gear durabilitiy and increases your death exp. So every death counts. I can't imagine it being fun for anyone to have to repair their gear every day, because they get harassed for having a social following.
It's a natural situation for me: You are famous and powerful. There will be people praising you and there will be people trying to take you down. Deal with it
What do you mean 0 counter play. Why doesn't the streamer have 3+ people with them? They have an audience that will probably allow them to take over whole nodes, why can't they bring those people around?
I don't want the game to change to cater to streamers because they constantly giving away their position. I most definitely don't think they should be able to safely farm locations because they stream.