The problem with having “Tank” as a class name

Hello all, I believe this discussion may have come up before, but I really would like Steven and friends to reconsider the name “Tank”. Overall, they have done a good job at naming the other classes and subclasses, but they ruin the immersion of the game by using the class name “tank”. Tank was a code name given to military vehicles being created in 1915. It has been a slang term for classes and archetypes in many video games given to the role that is used to absorb/mitigate or “tank” damage. Having a class name feels very uncharacteristic compared to the other class names. It’s like naming your cat “Cat”. It’s cute and punny, but is that what they really want for their game? What class do you play? Oh, I play a tank! Yea, but like what class? TANK!! *insert meme of a tank with a face on it... drooling*

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Maciej

Sathrago wrote: »

This is why you have no argument. We don't know the lore yet. We have a teeny tiny bit of it. The fact that you can claim it is immersion breaking without knowing the lore of the tank archetype in AoC is silly.

I will bet money that there is no in-lore etymology of Tank. It is technically a possibility, but so is you being a horse typing that nonsense on the keyboard with your hooves since I have no proof you are, in fact, a human.

Noaani

Maciej wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

This is why you have no argument. We don't know the lore yet. We have a teeny tiny bit of it. The fact that you can claim it is immersion breaking without knowing the lore of the tank archetype in AoC is silly.

I will bet money that there is no in-lore etymology of Tank. It is technically a possibility, but so is you being a horse typing that nonsense on the keyboard with your hooves since I have no proof you are, in fact, a human.

I would say it's 50/50.

Steven does read these forums - much more than his post count would indicate. He is also quite keen on keeping the names as they are now. Additionally, he also isn't above tasking a junior writer with adding in some text in an obscure book or from some random NPC based on a forum thread (or several forum threads).

What won't happen though, is we won't have it plastered all over the game on launch day.

Maciej

Noaani wrote: »

I would say it's 50/50.

Steven does read these forums - much more than his post count would indicate. He is also quite keen on keeping the names as they are now. Additionally, he also isn't above tasking a junior writer with adding in some text in an obscure book or from some random NPC based on a forum thread (or several forum threads).

100 EUR bet that there won't be one, are you up @Noaani?

Noaani wrote: »

What won't happen though, is we won't have it plastered all over the game on launch day.

Right, people should like the name because there is an explanation, but the explanation won't be revealed to us, because the etymology of a common word that supposedly every person in the world knows is a deep and mysterious secret of the universe? Come on.

Edit: and just so we are clear:

People who have a visceral reaction to the name are not wrong for having it, just as people who don't like guns in fantasy settings are not wrong for not liking them, despite the fact that explaining guns is trivial.

We can argue whether people not liking it is reason enough to change it, but arguing that people should like something they don't is full on autistic.

Atama

Noaani wrote: »

Sholer wrote: »

Sathrago wrote: »

Sholer wrote: »

lol I didn't know my thread was going to piss off so many people

I mean, this is why everyone called you a troll initially. This argument has been around a while.

It wasn't my intention to get people angry, just really think "Tank" is a name for a rol, not for a class.

But whatever I think the mayority don't want to change the name so I think the best option here is let the thread just die.

To be fair, tank isn't a class name in Ashes. It is an archetype name.

Two archetypes make up your class, which has it's own name.

To be fair, that is meaningless doublespeak. Just because Intrepid calls a class "archetype" doesn't make it so. Going by that logic, for many levels you have no class, right? Wrong, BS. We could call it a "frogball" and it doesn't make a difference. It's your class whatever they call it. More Intrepid ridiculousness.

Yeah, Steven and Intrepid can make mistakes. That's why I still stick around and support the project and look forward to the game and participate in testing even when they do stupid things and make bad decisions. Because the good doesn't outweigh the bad. But there are bad things, objectively bad things, that hopefully they have time to change between now and then.

And I will never let this die for as long as this stupidity continues. I will call out Intrepid for their mistakes.

Noaani

Maciej wrote: »

We can argue whether people not liking it is reason enough to change it, but arguing that people should like something they don't is full on autistic.

I've never argued people should like it, and to be fair, I don't at all care if they do or not.

My argument is that until we know more about the game, there is no place to say whether the name fits the setting or not.

Further, my argument is that no matter what Intrepid calls the class, players will call it "tank".

Maciej wrote: »

100 EUR bet that there won't be one, are you up Noaani?

Based on history - specifically me telling Steven he can fuck off (even if passing that message on from others) - I don't think this would be a wise bet for me to accept.

While I wouldn't put it past him to assign a task like this to someone, I also wouldn't put it past him to see that him not doing that would cost me €100, and so decide to not do that.

Clearly, that wouldn't be a smart bet on my part.

Noaani

Atama wrote: »

I will call out Intrepid for their mistakes.

As you no doubt know, so will I.

I just don't consider this to be a mistake.

Maciej

Here is another thing I can bet money on: excluding everyone who is indifferent or likes Tank but wouldn't mind it to change, there is more people who would like it changed than there is people who want the name to remain in the target audience for Ashes of Creation.

If someone can prove me wrong on this with reasonably done polling till let's say the end of Alpha 1, I'll donate 1000 EUR to that person's charity of choice. Otherwise I'll donate 1000 EUR to any charity of choice designated by the first Intrepid employee who cares to name one.

Edit: Ante up, if I'm right about the above, and if Intrepid changes the name to "Defender" or another name accepted by the community, I'll up my donation to their charity of choice to 10k EUR total. That's how much it fucking bothers me.

daveywavey

Maciej wrote: »

Here is another thing I can bet money on: excluding everyone who is indifferent or likes Tank but wouldn't mind it to change, there is more people who would like it changed than there is people who want the name to remain in the target audience for Ashes of Creation.

If someone can prove me wrong on this with reasonably done polling till let's say the end of Alpha 1, I'll donate 1000 EUR to that person's charity of choice. Otherwise I'll donate 1000 EUR to any charity of choice designated by the first Intrepid employee who cares to name one.

Edit: Ante up, if I'm right about the above, and if Intrepid changes the name to "Defender" or another name accepted by the community, I'll up my donation to their charity of choice to 10k EUR total. That's how much it fucking bothers me.

https://strawpoll.com/qrb93f6v7

Maciej

daveywavey wrote: »

https://strawpoll.com/qrb93f6v7

I'd have preferred something that's not easily manipulated, but options are fine so let's see where this goes.

daveywavey

Maciej wrote: »

daveywavey wrote: »

https://strawpoll.com/qrb93f6v7

I'd have preferred something that's not easily manipulated, but options are fine so let's see where this goes.

It's got IP checking, so hopefully that's enough to weed out repeat voters.

rikardp98

Sathrago wrote: »

rikardp98 wrote: »

Isn't cleric a priest that is heavily connect to holy power or the light. So all other healing powers that exist will not be used, meaning that cleric is, from my understanding of the word (english is not my first language), pretty narrow when it comes to magic usages.

So I went to see if I missed anything on lore for the cleric and discriptions. Surprisingly the excerpt on the wiki does not even mention the gods. Which I find odd, so perhaps they are taking a fresh perspective on the "cleric" and changing what it would normally mean. This might sound odd but read this and you will hopefully get what im trying to say.

In a world often fraught with peril, a Cleric is never wanting for friends. They can protect their allies in a number of ways, and when necessary, snuff the life out of others. As masters over the very essence of vitality, they can sense the broken and corrupted... The strands of this essence connect everything and everyone. Clerics find themselves particularly attuned to the threads that channel life and motive energy. By reinforcing these tendrils, they can heal and even resurrect those that have been wounded. By tearing them, they can steal energy from their foes, turning their enemies’ powers against them amid the frenzied heat of battle.

This would explain why all clerics can heal, but leaves room for clerics to branch out from said healing into other forms of magic and might.

Yeah that sounds good, Thanks for the information!

I think I need to go back and read through the archetypes again, been A while since I did.

Nerror

First, I don't really care about this. It's an archetype, not the name for an actual class. To me it's "whatevs".

That said, why not go German and opt for Panzer? At least that means armored/a coat of mail. Or the old French word Pancier?

Or call it Coconut. If you're a bloodthirsty Ancient boss you can cut off the head, put in a straw (plastic, because they want to corrupt nature) and drink the insides, while holding the hard shell.

Gizban

Sathrago wrote: »

Marcet wrote: »

If they leave it like that people will laugh at it forever, now and 10 years after the game is released.
It makes no sense to anyone, it's not the end of the world, but it's a thing too dumb to let it pass with the seriousness this project has.

Trust me 10 years after game release people will still ridicule and ask why "tank" is an archetype name.

It boggles my mind that you cannot accept calling the archetype tank when you will be calling the class "tank" the entire time you play the game.

But if they spec damage, they aren't a tank. You would shackle a double wielding man-child with such shame?

Adhonis

kill wrote: »

Tank is a role.
DPS is a role
Healer is a role

Tank is not a class in the same way that DPS and Healer are not classes. Tank/DPS/Healer define the specific role of other classes given the situation the solo player or group is in but they are not classes themselves.

Not sure why this is so difficult for folks to grasp lol.

Hit the nail on the head. This really doesn't require any further explanation.

Noaani wrote: »

Tank as a class name is perfect fine, if we are given an in game reason as to where the name came from. This need be nothing more than someone thousands of years earlier looking at someone in full plate armor and commenting that they look like a metal water tank, and that name just sticking.

I disagree entirely and I think your solution to justify the name is laughable at best. A lack of context isn't the issue. We all know why Intrepid is using the name Tank and some half-assed lore isn't going to change that.

Maciej wrote: »

@Noaani good god man, that was painful to read. Have a nice day.

It's glaringly apparent that this person loves to hear themselves talk. Honestly, their condescending nature in this thread is just gross. @Noaani - Get over yourself.

Regarding the name change, I don't think it's a massive issue but I certainly understand why it should happen.

Noaani

Adhonis wrote: »

I disagree entirely and I think your solution to justify the name is laughable at best. A lack of context isn't the issue. We all know why Intrepid is using the name Tank and some half-assed lore isn't going to change that.

Yeah, we all know they called it that because that is what players are going to call the class regardless. This is the number one reason why players straight up shouldn't have an issue with the name.

As I've said a few times in this thread though, different people have different issues with the name.

If your issue is that you find the name immersion breaking, then all Intrepid need to do is provide an in game rationalization for that name. I have provided one possible rationalization they could use, if they wanted.

On the other hand, if that is not your issue with the name, then obviously you aren't going to care if they rationalize it in game or not. As such, that suggestion is not aimed at you.

Suggesting that the issue YOU have with it is the only issue ANYONE has with it (as you are doing here) is a fairly clear sign of a superiority complex.

Songcaller

Adhonis wrote: »

It's glaringly apparent that this person loves to hear themselves talk. Honestly, their condescending nature in this thread is just gross. @Noaani - Get over yourself.

Remind me not to hunt with you Adhonis. I'm not favoured by Aphrodite.

Adhonis

Noaani wrote: »

Suggesting that the issue YOU have with it is the only issue ANYONE has with it (as you are doing here) is a fairly clear sign of a superiority complex.

If that isn't blatantly projecting I don't know what is.

Blund

kill wrote: »

Tank is a role.
DPS is a role
Healer is a role

Tank is not a class in the same way that DPS and Healer are not classes. Tank/DPS/Healer define the specific role of other classes given the situation the solo player or group is in but they are not classes themselves.

Not sure why this is so difficult for folks to grasp lol.

I fully agree with this, Guardian/Defender/Protector or why not "Lethargiam "!

Songcaller

In 5 years people will say 'What was Alpha like?'
I will reply 'Tank was in peril: Tank took it for the team but the team didn't like Tank.'

WhitneyHagasMatsumoto

I've been quiet, but I'm going to express my opinion clearly.

What disturbs me more than anything is the endless verbal chess going on in this forum where there are so many people with passion for the game.

This is a loss to the game's growing appeal, wouldn't you say?
You should put your passion into more useful discussions.

Let's moderate the discussion and leave it to the IntrepidStudios folks to decide.

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