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The problem with having “Tank” as a class name

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Comments

  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    Noaani wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Second time I see you claiming that "Tank is used for "communication" purposes... And I have already answered you that it makes no sense because "Tank" is totally part of the storytelling as you choose your archetype when creating you character.

    This doesn't make it part of storytelling.

    It becomes a part of storytelling if a character in game refers to your primary archetype by name. Anything short of this, and it isn't a part of the story being presented to you.
    If, as you say, the term was used for communication purposes, it would not even belong in the game. The term would be used in a separate guide (or only the Wiki for example).
    Except it needs to, because that is where players select that archetype kit.

    The developers can't exactly have a website with the abilities of each class kit, put the identifying labels on them on the website, but then leave those identifying labels off of them in game where players have to select one.

    Impossible is possible ;) ! Dozens of MMORPG did it before AOC. With a one hour brainstorming, they can find a much better solution :D
  • AzheraeAzherae Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Second time I see you claiming that "Tank is used for "communication" purposes... And I have already answered you that it makes no sense because "Tank" is totally part of the storytelling as you choose your archetype when creating you character.

    This doesn't make it part of storytelling.

    It becomes a part of storytelling if a character in game refers to your primary archetype by name. Anything short of this, and it isn't a part of the story being presented to you.
    If, as you say, the term was used for communication purposes, it would not even belong in the game. The term would be used in a separate guide (or only the Wiki for example).
    Except it needs to, because that is where players select that archetype kit.

    The developers can't exactly have a website with the abilities of each class kit, put the identifying labels on them on the website, but then leave those identifying labels off of them in game where players have to select one.

    Impossible is possible ;) ! Dozens of MMORPG did it before AOC. With a one hour brainstorming, they can find a much better solution :D

    In case it's relevant to Intrepid, this would mean that people are going to be upset about the old Sarge since one of the direct answers to his question, in game, given by/to your character is "I'm a Tank".

    Please avoid further controversy (no sarc) by changing this, as I don't think the other two options actually even WERE 'I'm a Mage' and 'I'm a Cleric'.

    Some long-overdue feedback on Alpha-1, I guess...

    More seriously, @Noaani, they MIGHT actually have thought that was okay... and therefore actually DO intend to use 'Tank' as a term in game. It's probably as you expect, it was Alpha-1 after all, but at the moment, it might not be utterly crazy to take that interaction (and I think one other, actually, but I don't remember where, maybe Ellyon) and its 'actual use of the word Tank' to mean that they intend to use it 'as is'.
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  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Myosotys wrote: »
    Impossible is possible ;) ! Dozens of MMORPG did it before AOC. With a one hour brainstorming, they can find a much better solution :D
    The term "tank" fits the archetype in Ashes better than any other term. If you wish to compare this to other MMO's from the past, then all we can say is that Ashes is doing this specific aspect better than them.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Azherae wrote: »
    More seriously, Noaani, they MIGHT actually have thought that was okay... and therefore actually DO intend to use 'Tank' as a term in game. It's probably as you expect
    If it turns out to be other than I expect, then I will obviously reconsider my position.

    However, I have no reason to expect it to be anything other than what I expect it to be.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I love how this comes up every couple of months
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Wait...
    I've just read that 'tank' has actually had a videogame definition added to it's list of meanings...
    So now this is more viable right?

    I mean is definition 8... But it's there

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tank
  • LudulluLudullu Member, Alpha Two
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    I've just read that 'tank' has actually had a videogame definition added to it's list of meanings...
    So now this is more viable right?

    I mean is definition 8... But it's there

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tank
    Yeah, it's as if language is constantly evolving. Except people don't seem to care about that in this case.
  • Mag7spyMag7spy Member, Alpha Two
    NiKr wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    I've just read that 'tank' has actually had a videogame definition added to it's list of meanings...
    So now this is more viable right?

    I mean is definition 8... But it's there

    https://www.dictionary.com/browse/tank
    Yeah, it's as if language is constantly evolving. Except people don't seem to care about that in this case.

    No tank can only mean military vehicles even if no one ever talks about those anymore oya5e6dtxbyl.png
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZfqaW5klpg
  • SathragoSathrago Member, Alpha Two
    I know how to fix all the turmoil. Give me a few weeks and I'll get Chat GPT to rewrite The Hobbit books so that they use tank in reference to various characters (like people use ranger in this very same fantasy.) Since you could argue that the term "ranger" mostly became a fantasy term due to this book.
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  • SolvrynSolvryn Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Shield Smash Guy

    There you go, I fixed it.



  • MyosotysMyosotys Member
    Sathrago wrote: »
    I know how to fix all the turmoil. Give me a few weeks and I'll get Chat GPT to rewrite The Hobbit books so that they use tank in reference to various characters (like people use ranger in this very same fantasy.) Since you could argue that the term "ranger" mostly became a fantasy term due to this book.

    For the moment Chat GPT refers to "Tank classes" of other video games. Whatever the language is evoluting, we are still free to use the words we want to express ourselves.

    m5rvoo4zj2dk.png


    Tank is ridiculous (according to me) so I will simply not use this archetype period :D.
  • Arya_YesheArya_Yeshe Member
    edited March 2023
    Tank name is bad, period... could itbe knight? paladin? guardian? could be something new

    vote now, on your phones
    PvE means: A handful of coins and a bag of boredom.
  • RazThemunRazThemun Member, Alpha Two
    No, you call yourself a Guardian, a Paladin, a Spell Shield.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Arya_Yeshe wrote: »
    Tank name is bad, period... could itbe knight? paladin? guardian? could be something new

    you can call it knight, king, helicopter, myself and most players will just call it a tank like in every other mmorpg lol

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  • SolmyrSolmyr Member
    Cons:
    • It's an explicitly modern term.
    • It's out of place in what is otherwise an immersive fantasy setting.
    • It clashes thematically with the other archetype names.

    Pros:
    • It's useful to convey the role of the archetype.
    • Everyone understands it at a glance.
    • This thread is hilarious.
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    mcstackerson wrote: »
    How is this any different to names like summoner or fighter? Yes, those names have been used for classes in the past but isn't it a similar situation where a fighter is someone who fights and a summoner is someone who summoners?

    That's because Summoner is a class and not a role. I have never played a game that has a class called Tank. It would be like if Cleric was called Healer instead. Tanks aren't a class they are a role. That's the issue people have with it.
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    CaptnChuck wrote: »
    Cripsus wrote: »
    Hello all, I believe this discussion may have come up before, but I really would like Steven and friends to reconsider the name “Tank”. Overall, they have done a good job at naming the other classes and subclasses, but they completely ruin the immersion of the game by using the class name “tank”. Tank was a code name given to military vehicles being created in 1915. It has been a slang term for classes and archetypes in many video games given to the role that is used to absorb/mitigate or “tank” damage. Having a class name as tank ruins the immersion. It’s like naming your cat “Cat”. It’s cute and puny, but is that what they really want for their game? What class do you play? Oh, I play a tank! Yea, but like what class? TANK!! *insert meme of a tank with a face on it... drooling*

    Really? Do you really think that every other name has been named well? Guess I'm the only one that sees the words shadow and sword being repeated a billion times across the class list.

    I think they have been named better than tank but could have had better names.
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    BaSkA_9x2 wrote: »
    I also agree Tank is a bad name for the archetype, unless it has a cannon and is made of steel. I would prefer if it was Guardian, Warden, Protector or forgive me for I will sin: Warrior. It would be cool to make a poll about this imho!

    I mean same. If it doesn't get changed I'll still play the game but its still a terrible name for a class. I have to agree what someone else said about it being tacky.
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    Evyx wrote: »
    People in my opinion are far too quick to dismiss this argument.

    There is a problem with stating you have a trinity and there being HEALER, DPS and TANK roles. The issue is you literally have a class called tank. Most players who are brand new and have absolutely no idea how this game works in depth flat out will just see the name "Tank" and be like "Ohhhh okay so that is the tank I see I see :):):):)"

    Then they see a summoner who has tank secondary and is a brood warden (who I presume is a valid tank capable of tanking content) and they are like "THIS ISN'T A TANK. HOW DARE YOU BRING THIS, YOU LITERALLY AREN'T A TANK LEAVEEE".

    Sadly I'd say that people wouldn't just do that but I've played long enough to know that the naming of particular things does trickle. Reputations are built sometimes off the dumbest things.

    Thank you this is the other issue I have. If you have certain Archetypes that aren't a tank but can tank this would cause confusion for people. Not only that it limits who can tank and who can't. So do we have to come up with new jargon for tank because they decided to make a class that?
  • Sybil_LanelSybil_Lanel Member, Alpha Two
    winner909098 wrote: »
    Sylvanar wrote: »
    I agree, though I would like to nominate two more classes:
    - Ranger
    - Fighter

    Class name should imply the role of the class and not be the role itself.
    I mean all the classes will have fighting capability and I doubt mage & other healers will have melee option.

    ranger is a d&d class, as is fighter

    lol thanks I was about to go off. Ranger and Fighter are indeed D&D classes
  • BirthdayBirthday Member
    Why is this thread still alive?

    Don't you guys think it's very petty to be concerned about this?

    Let's look at it realistically. The only time when your class will actually be called Tank is pre-choosing secondary class. After that you become warden or guardian etc. So it's just in the early game.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Birthday wrote: »
    Why is this thread still alive?

    Don't you guys think it's very petty to be concerned about this?

    Let's look at it realistically. The only time when your class will actually be called Tank is pre-choosing secondary class. After that you become warden or guardian etc. So it's just in the early game.

    That's assuming people even take the time to really learn all 64 classes and don't just refer to the primary archetypes at all times... And that is exactly what people will do if the effect of your secondary on the primary isn't that great...
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.

    Why would Ashes be the opposite to all other games?

    In other games, a class called a Guardian just gets called "tank".

    In fact, all classes that can tank in other games are just called "tank".
  • DygzDygz Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited March 2023
    Because, as usual, you have poor reading comprehension and failed to understand what I actually wrote.
    You choose to disagree just because you love to agrue.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    Dygz wrote: »
    Because, as usual, you have poor reading comprehension and failed to understand what I actually wrote.
    You choose to disagree just because you love to agrue.

    No, I understood fully what you said, I just disagree with it.

    You may well opt to call tanks "guardians", but that does not constitute "lots of people".

    In the context of the population of Ashes - there will not be "lots of people" that call the tank archetype "guardian".
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.

    Why would Ashes be the opposite to all other games?

    In other games, a class called a Guardian just gets called "tank".

    In fact, all classes that can tank in other games are just called "tank".

    You're right, players just say tank, healz, and DPS
    So if all classes that heal get called healz... Why does cleric get a name that's not it's role? While tank just gets tank.

    I fully acknowledge that if it's official name got switched from tank to guardian everyone's still going to call it tank, just like most people will call a cleric primary heals anyways...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.

    Why would Ashes be the opposite to all other games?

    In other games, a class called a Guardian just gets called "tank".

    In fact, all classes that can tank in other games are just called "tank".

    You're right, players just say tank, healz, and DPS
    So if all classes that heal get called healz... Why does cleric get a name that's not it's role? While tank just gets tank.
    My assumption is because bards will also be able to heal, and in some situations may be able to be the only/main healer in a group.

    Whereas a tank will be the only class able to tank.
  • SirChancelotSirChancelot Member, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Noaani wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.

    Why would Ashes be the opposite to all other games?

    In other games, a class called a Guardian just gets called "tank".

    In fact, all classes that can tank in other games are just called "tank".

    You're right, players just say tank, healz, and DPS
    So if all classes that heal get called healz... Why does cleric get a name that's not it's role? While tank just gets tank.
    My assumption is because bards will also be able to heal, and in some situations may be able to be the only/main healer in a group.

    Whereas a tank will be the only class able to tank.

    Eh
    That may be true, and if it is then sure...

    But if bards can heal, as in fill The role of a healer and party content. Then I seriously hope other archetypes will be able to fill the role of tank if they take the tank secondary and build their character as one...
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack, Alpha Two
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    SirChancelot wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Dygz wrote: »
    I am quite sure that people will refer to Necromancers as Necromancers. And Paladins as Paladins.
    And... if Tank is actually official at launch - lots of people will prefer to say Guardian, rather than Tank.
    Slang happens.

    Why would Ashes be the opposite to all other games?

    In other games, a class called a Guardian just gets called "tank".

    In fact, all classes that can tank in other games are just called "tank".

    You're right, players just say tank, healz, and DPS
    So if all classes that heal get called healz... Why does cleric get a name that's not it's role? While tank just gets tank.
    My assumption is because bards will also be able to heal, and in some situations may be able to be the only/main healer in a group.

    Whereas a tank will be the only class able to tank.

    Eh
    That may be true, and if it is then sure...

    But if bards can heal, as in fill The role of a healer and party content. Then I seriously hope other archetypes will be able to fill the role of tank if they take the tank secondary and build their character as one...

    I fully expect a summoner/tank to be able to tank.

    However, keep in mind that Bard is a support class, and so is cleric. As primary archetypes, support is what they do.

    Tank is the only tank archetype.
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