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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
And I'm sure plenty of other people do enough reading at work and school.
If you make reading quests mandatory, might as well slap and "Educational" sticker on the games rating too.
Sorry but if you seriously think having to use a little bit of brainpower will ruin your experience, it’s not an issue with the game, it’s an issue with you.
If people don't like reading quests, why would they play a role playing game? Being able to just blindly click on things to accomplish enhancement of your character is kind of like cheating. You are not putting the time into your character, but getting the benefit. Why not just play a MOBA, FPS, or single player game?
For those people, just clicking on the quest would give the experience. But that just seems silly.
If there are going to be some generic quests - kill X - gather X etc - then the area breadcrumbs is good enough as well.
Generally more generic and just boring quests create the need to have breadcrumbs - hard to tell if the game needs more or less breadcrumbs when we have so little to look at
― Plato
With that being said, as a veteran of MMO's who really wants to be immersed in a world, I would very much appreciate an option to turning each settings I do not want off. I love exploring a world but seeing a giant minimap with a disgusting amount of bubbles everywhere is very jarring (for me). Id much prefer one of those compasses which just indicates a direction. That is very minimal and out of my way. (Its also great when you can just say ENEMY RAID PARTY AT 70) indicating a direction on the compass like what is in apocalypse.
WHATEVER YOU DO, DO NOT HAVE AUTO PATHING PLEASE. FOR THE LOVE OF ALL THAT IS GOOD IN AN MMO. AUTO PATHING RUINS GAMES!
What I would really love to see are quests that you get just by strolling around. Example: I am in the woods collecting herbs and I get a notification that some strange sound comes from the west. So I go investigate and find a wolfs den that I have to take down. Something along these lines. That makes exploration more interesting.
Also I liked the idea from the last Pathfinders Podcast: do breadcrumbs, but scale the "intensity" to the quest level. So harder quests should have lesser breadcrumbs.
If you have to do quest pickup, why not 'bounty boards' in nodes? Only hand ins would have to go to the actual NPC, but it makes sense people in this setting would post jobs on a board rather than wait for people just to walk by.
I'd also like to see quests that you don't have to 'hand in'. Basically the blacksmith isn't some task giving overlord, they just gave you information. The reward is out in the world, you just got started with a lead. Obviously not applicable for gather X and get it back here type quests.
I think if you read a little bit in this dev discussion u will find out that u are absolutely not in the minority.
One other thing I want to say is a toggle function for marks is a terrible idea just cuz it is.
What I feel is NOT okay is WoW's current system that gives u a full layout on the map of exactly where everything could EVER be and its really detracting from the actual experience of the game IMHO.
Maybe a quest Arrow to show u a direction, or a zone highlight without exact details of how to complete the quest and where? I enjoy the fact of mystery and discovery inside the games VS just being told EXACTLY where EVERYTHING is. 0 challenge, 0 brainpower expended.
For traditional quests, I think EverQuest got it right; there is no tracking of quests, they are repeatable, and you have to seek them out by conversing with people or figuring out what to do with an item you found. There is no state of being "on" a quest, the quest is just a series of interactions that can happen. Similarly, there are no breadcrumbs to follow. Before all the knowledge has been catalogued in spoiler sites, the discovery fosters social interaction as players figure it out. This is a thing to engage explorer-type players. Once all the knowledge is in the spoiler sites, that goes away, but at least it was there for a while. At this point people can read up how to do it and don't have to puzzle everything out on their own, but they do still have to engage with the community somewhat to learn this. I'm not suggesting that spoiler sites be mandatory to figure out what spells do, but if quests aren't the main source of XP and are just interesting things in the world, they should require discovery.
I feel that WoW got quests very wrong, but set the standard for so many other games that it is the de-facto design. Collecting 12 bandit haunches (noting that only "bandit enforcers" have haunches) that only spawn at this one camp is the exact opposite of a quest that feels worth doing. It is a chore. And once done I can't do it again--but that other player standing next to me can do it. None of this makes any sense--when I get 10 punches on my loyalty card at the local Mexican place I get a free meal, then I get to repeat that quest with a fresh card; why are bandit haunches any different? This design is anti-immersion and counterproductive in a social setting. In WoW, killing things to level is, by design, slow, and these one-time quests supplement that progression, but the limited availability of quests forces players to move around the world to complete enough to level. These quests have to be mostly soloable because, if I already did it once, I'm not going to be inclined to want to help you do it since I won't get a reward. This is very much not the design AoC claims to want--the idea that the world is large and travel difficult and time consuming is directly at odds with the theme park model that forces players to move around to find enough quests to grind. In this case you're just doing quests on your own to grind away levels, and they don't serve a social purpose, so breadcrumb away. Make it abundantly clear that only the gazelles on the plateau poop, only the wolves by the lake have skins, and only bandits with pink dresses and tambourines drop some NPC's wife's severed head. And don't ask me to find Mankrik's wife; the occasional exploration quest is a dissonant design in the context of a quest system that is designed to force players to pre-defined areas. That many people couldn't handle it reinforces the notion that there are different types of players and you have to be really careful when content for one group is presented through the mechanics that cater to a different group.
GW2, however, had the most potential of any quest system I've seen. I feel it fell far short of its potential, but is still the best I've seen. Quests are just things happening in the world. The centaur are launching raids and might capture a city. Somebody needs an escort. A powerful monster is in the area. In this case, knowing where they are happening is key, but once you know where, what to do should be painfully obvious. Knowing where is important because these are opportunities to draw players together to create social interactions.
Then there is also the possibility of player-created quests. I'd love to see a percentage of XP earned within a node put in a bank that can be given as rewards to players for contributing materials to construction projects, for clearing monster dens that (allegedly) threaten the town, for supplying the militia with weapons and armor, and so forth. For those sorts a general direction should suffice when there is an objective location, but the quest-giver should be a well-established system, like a noticeboard or a building site. Again, point me towards where things are happening, but I should be able to figure it out from there.
Since people don't have to quest to level(you can just grind) I think it's ok to let people discover the quest by talking to wandering NPCs, it adds a level of discovery and immersion. If the objectives are written decently it shouldn't be hard to figure out how to complete the quest either(no giant circles on the world map).
For example, "Go to the Mines of Despair and bring me the ring of the boss named Greenthumb and I'll reward you" or "Go North, cross 2 mountains, then you'll see a giant blue tree, then go a little East a bit and bring me 10 boar pelts"....etc..
Furthermore doing it this way just finding the NPCs is like a quest/accomplishment system in itself while completing their task is another quest. 2 quests for the price of 1. Also, you can bet that everybody will talk to every NPC to read every bit of lore and dialog they have to say at least once which is kinda nice for a change(again, they could choose to grind instead it's up to the player, choice is good).
For example, npc says: "I meet this merchant in Crescentia town near the mark's forge" or "I dont remember where i have encountered those wolves but i remember seeing this village between two mountains from there" or "those plants grow near the river but I when i go there i usually hear something, maybe a waterfall is nearby".
I am usually overwhelmed by the amount of quest icons and markings in MMORPGs, which makes me want to clean them up as fast as possible as a result i skip the reading of the quests. So I prefer any quest breadcrumbs to be kept at minimum to induce the communicating between players about locations and the exploration.
Beginner: Full Breadcrumbs, icons etc
Experienced: Partial Breadcrumbs, no icons
Diehard fans of questing: Nothing
Immersion is much higher when quest givers actually talk.
Personally I like the sense of accomplishment and discovery which can come from finding secret/hidden things in games like this. While I think it would be helpful to have your usual breadcrumb quests I'd really love to see some hidden discoveries that one might find only through reading random lore drops, like an old journal in a ruined home - but gaining no quest makers or updates from reading it. The player would have to take it upon themselves to find these discoveries.
2) For quest turn in or pickup, no indicator would lead to more confusion that it is probably worth. One of the pain points for some MMOs is the lack of grace in which they've implemented quests indicators to the point they become eye sores. I've appreciated the ones that use audio queues, such as the NPC whispering, "Hey kid, over here..." for some of the less savory quests.
3) Some of the decision comes down to how many quests one can expect to be collecting or turning in at any time and how much chaining is a factor. Once you're on a chain, quest text once again can be a fair enough guide. If you're typically only working on 3-5 quests at a time, maybe you could indicate a particular quest for tracking and that one could provide a subtle, elegant visual for the turn-in.
4) Having a handful of quests that have no indicator as all, perhaps optional in nature or as reward for those players that are fully immersing themselves, would be a fair balance. That way you have a foundation for newer players and a reward system for those going above and beyond in their interactions. There's something to be said for hearing the conversation of two NPCs, picking up on a detail, looking into it, and finding it was legit and now you're on a new quest from being observant. It also adds to the feeling of a living world where things are in fact connected.
Think Icons over npc heads are kind of tacky and take of away from the role playing value of the game. You could be in a really immersive zone and then you have an npc with quest icon over head. Would be better if maybe they wore tabbards or large medallion. Could have same type of tabbard but recolors for differetn areas.
Think if the player cannot find the quest givers then they should be able to click on the quest for more particular information with name of quest giver plus general location and a portrait of the quest giver.
well have to go now will finish post later.
I do really like to know where I'm going when I do a quest as well. I rarely read what a quest says to do unless it's important to the story but I highly doubt others even read those at times. Something on your screen that is short and sweet of what to do, with some sort of arrow in the direction of where to go with the location being highlighted really helps.
It certainly changes how I play the game, when I can see there is X amount of quest present in an area, I tend to mow them down to complete an area and move on to the next area. It's not the most immersive choice but it is certainly a choice. Going the "Skyrim Route" will be far more immersive but for the love of the gods, there has to be a very clear "type of quest" on the journal so I don't spend 3 hours completing daily/repeatable quest and then realize I did nothing towards the story or a faction I would like to join.
Finding a main story quest should always be easy/automatic while everything else should be left to our exploration and word of mouth. I still remember the rush of hearing a rumor of a kid up in Windhelm summoning some assassins and forgetting everything else.
A sort of Quest hubs in taverns please? Best place to find quest. always.
- Frufire
We'll see ya for our next Dev Discussion on immersion!