As I'm sure others in the thread have already said, I think each individual aspect of breadcrumbs, such as highlights, icons, paths, or markers should be an option that the players can toggle. I can't think of a good reason that all this *must* be standardized.
Well I see it like this. We've been spoilt over the past 15 years. We've had the direction we need to head in given to us in every MMO that's been made. To be honest, I don't mind quest icons. By all means make it obvious that "Fred" is the person you need to be talking to. I think this is especially so for the general run of the mill quests; the "tasks" of the game. The way I see it is that for these tasks you are going to be given a specific set of instructions and you're free to ask where you're going and how to get there. So give us a path and a highlighted quest giver. These are progress quests to help us level, so what is the harm in having some guidance?
Now we come to events. These, I understand, are the result of us levelling in the world and are the direct consequences of that levelling. These should be more down to the player. By all means give us some general guidance, but don't make it obvious who you need to talk to or exactly where they are. Let the player do some work. Perhaps there could be a new symbol above heads for the events. Not an exclamation mark to denote that they have a quest, but a question mark to show that they are an interesting person in the world and that speaking to them might herald results.
As an example, say a node is being progressed to the Town stage. A new resources expedition group sas arrived in the town and wants someone to scout the wilderness and find for them the best sources of a specific resource. You are asked to scout around the town as well, to see if you can't hear gossip of treasures in them thar hills. Check the tavern, they say. So you speak to people in the tavern and it will direct you to another place. There's no definitive quest markers, just the interesting person marker.
You might then be asked to head in to the hills and try to find signs of this resource; a camp perhaps. You won't be given a map path for this, but interesting person markers are evident.
And finally, narrative quests. These I want to be the epic quests of Ashes. Quests where you are given little to no guidance and you have to find the path or the people. Interesting people markers might help you, and NPCs will give you clues, but there are no map directions and no glowing arrows that tell you a particular NPC is who you want.
I suppose there could be simple narrative quests and more grandiose narrative quests, but I really want to see a return to the types of quests Everquest had. These weren't quests you did to level up, because most of them gave little to no experience. What they did give you was a weapon or piece of armour that you'd cherish.
Many years ago, in Norrath, I undertook a quest to find the Paw of Opolla; the forearm of a mysterious gnoll shaman, I believe. It was a long time ago, so bear with me on this. I will admit I cheated a bit, because Alakhazam was a thing back then, but that quest still took me all over the world. It still required me to visit dangerous places and to kill powerful mobs. At the end of it I got this great wisdom item that I cherished. I cherished it because of the work that went in to getting it.
Then there was my epics. Epic quests were a right of passage in Everquest. For my ranger epic swords I had to brave the wilds of Kunark, enter the City of Mist and slay dangerous mobs, defeat the powerful Iksar necromancer Venril Sathir, journey to the homes of the Gods to forge a blade and raid the home of the evil God Innoruuk. At the end of it I was able to stand proud with Swiftwind and Earthcaller in my hands.
Not actually me back then - just an image
Questing should mean something. I would like to see some quest rewards - not all, just some - be as good as crafted gear. You should be able to cherish quested items, and perhaps even upgrade them via crafters or through bonus quests. For exmaple, I walk in to a tavern in a new node and a mysterious stranger in the corner notices that I have a quested dagger. He starts me on a new quest to find a ring made from the gem that used to be on the hilt of my dagger. I can then re-set the gem and improve the dagger.
I realise, too, that we're in a different age for MMOs. As I said at the start of this post, we've all been spoilt by mysterious glowing lines in the air that lead right to a quest giver. I see no reason to take that away for the simplest tasks. The last thing you want to do after collecting 25 bear intestines is to spend ages trying to find the dwarf you need to hand it in to. It might be reassuring to hear the same thing over and over again...
Canloe Nusback says, 'Then serve you shall. Let your training begin on the battlefields of Faydwer. Seek out and destroy all [Crushbone orcs]. Return their belts to me. I shall also reward you for every two orc legionnaire shoulder pads returned. A warrior great enough to slay one legionnaire shall surely have no problem with another. Go, and let the cleansing of Faydwer begin.'
...but we all want to ding as soon as possible. I don't necessarily mean glowing lines in the air, but markers on a map and a quest symbol I do not see the harm of for basic tasks.
It's a game at the end of the day, and most of us have other things to do. Getting your orc belts back to Canloe fast is helpful. If you know where he is, because he's amrked on your map, then you can still spend time with the wife and kids.
When you come to the more extensive quests, however, why not make people work for the items that might see them through their 30s? Experience a quest that you will remember for years. A quest that in 20 years time you will write down on a forum for a new MMO and say:
Kid, this is how it was done in my day. You've got a lot of learning to do, but this quest will get you there.
-Quest markers above heads, I believe you should definitely have them in game but allow a toggle so players who like immersion may be able to play without them.
-Breadcrumbs or arrows guiding the way to quests... I think this is more of an efficiency thing that min/maxers want so they can finish the quest ASAP and move on to continue leveling. That being said, as long as each quest is engaging and actually fun to do, why not have the player read through things and learn about the game? Most players wont ever play through the same content again with the way things are looking, so it shouldn't even be a problem as far as keeping quests fresh for players. You could make this a toggle as well but honestly most players will turn it on just to rush through content and keep up with min/maxers.
-Maybe toss incentives to read through things like bonus objectives that aren't able to be considered unless you are reading through the text. Maybe reading through the quest tells about a shortcut not listed in the breadcrumbs so reading the story allows you to find easier paths while also learning things. Maybe not skipping through everything can give slight reward boosts.
-Factor in decision making so people have to read things through if they don't want a negative outcome.
All of this being said, it wont matter what route you will go because not everyone will be happy with the decision regardless of which you choose. Pick whichever would make the game as a whole more enjoyable, regardless of a players playstyle.
Generally I'd rather overhear that an NPC needs help than keep looking for exclamation points above their heads, but I know there not voice acting in the cards for AoC as it stands, so punctuation it must be I suppose.
For quest leading, I really enjoy what the most recent Assassin's Creed does with its quests. If the NPC tells you exacts, you get exacts, if they tell you "west" or "near that landmark" or "in this town" then the leads would be more vague. I prefer more vague in general, where you have to actually think about what you're doing while pursuing an objective. Having to wander and talk to NPC for more information is a good thing. I get really exhausted playing Connect the Dots during questing, it's so lifeless.
If quests could be given a context that has lore buildup telling you vaguely where to go, then it's good. If you have a skill where you need to explore that finds the quest location, even better. Icons would be good if it's distant, then as you get closer disappear to make exploration a thing. Please, no dotted lines or guide lines. ALso, if you do put in a lot of icons, it would be cool if that could be toggled off.
I think Steven has a bit of "inspiration" conflict here as Lineage2 didn't have arrows or held your hand in questing. They did however have ! marks on NPC but those NPC were kinda spread across various locations nicely so they were not one next to the other.
On the other hand, Archeage held your hand with exact locations, however no auto pathing like in BDO.
I prefer the Lineage2 option but unfortunately you had to google a lot of information and plan ahead as very rarely you knew the available quests as they required a minimum level to start so you would go into a city and have 2 quests but only 10 levels later to discover you actually now have 20 more that you didn't know about.
I think for me, the best way would be to have like a journal of already discovered NPC and Locations and not have your locations marked on map, unless already discovered.
So for example, you get a quest that says kill 10 boars and tells you they can be found south west of X. If you get there and discover the boars, then sure add some sort of markers over their head as I might have multiple quests involving them so I know when I'm done with that zone.
Same goes with NPCs. If I discovered this Chad Warrior NPC, then show me in my journal what types of quests he can give me depending on certain requirements so I do not have to learn all the game from a shady website filled with ads.
Also, what I would love to see is profession quests like in Lineage2; so when I get to level x and I can add my second class, before I can do that, make the player do a long questline (Like a 20-30h long quest meant to traverse various zones) where parts of that questline is shared between different subclass. So let's say all 8x ranger subclass share the same first questline, then 4 out of the 8th share the second quest and only combination of class x specific subclass share the last questline (eg. all classes that want to add a mage subclass share the final part). In Lineage 2 you would make a lot of friends this way, as many players had to share the same questline and often formed parties to make the grind and time pass easier.
Breadcrumps or not, I think the more important aspect is the reason and story behind that quest. If you tell me I have to kill 10 boars cause the NPC needs some meat then it's a shitty quest. However, if you tell me something like... we used to have a ranger in this town but he got an arrow to the knee and now we need to keep the population of bears under control, where let's say this quest let's you kill 5000 bears for rewards every 4h but it is shared between all players in that location, then I would surely do it cause then I have the pressure over my shoulders where I know that I will have to come back at a later date if I do not finish it.
On the other hand, I think the worst experience would be something like a mobile quest line where you auto path from one zone to another and so the entire quest becomes nothing more than a chore where you watch the game rather than play it.
My personal experience says a huge big ícone on essentials quest gonna make the game very comfortable for casually players and the others quests who gonna give stuff and others things don't need that, the importance of quest need the same nivel of icone, if the quest don't impact much on gameplay they don't really need any icone
For me the golden middle would be customization.
Dividing quests into groups - example: lore quests/ event quests/ work related/ hunting etc. and after incorporating filters on the map menu that can be toggled on/off for each group!
I hate spending time on reading quests ( ya mom of 2, if i have 1-2h of play i don't want to lose 50% of that time reading quests) for just killing 10 rats - i just take the quest and then with some moderate indication of general location ( place name/ direction or map highlight) i go and do it. Only quests that for me are worth the reading time are lore related. Anyhow allowing ppl to toggle visibility/map indications of quest giving npc/ finding the good spot for the monsters/items collection is imho satisfying since everyone could set it up to their liking.
And also will save us from having tons of ppl not reading the chat but then asking in it for the location for the same monster/source like 15 times in row (general observation- ppl are lazy, those who like challenge tend to stay unnoticed, the rest spam the chats non-stop with "where is X/Y stuff)...
When the flame of life glimmers in the wind, my hand shall guard it
When the weak waver on their path, my spirit shall be their guide
When the strong fall to darkness, my heart shall be their beacon
I think the focus of game should be on player interaction with other players not with NPCs. So quest breadcrumbs should be a must, it should be fun to make quest not frustrating that you don't find a mob which is right by the corner.
The interaction with NPCS in my opinion should be very user friendly and focus on player to player interaction - in this way you attract all kind of players soft and hardcore, if the interaction with NPCS/quests is not user friendly soft players will not play the game cuz is frustrating (if you play 1-2 hours per day and you lose 2 hours just to find a mob is not fun , so you will lose all these players).
A mix would be great. For Simple Quest breadcrumbs are nice. But i dont like the Red circle that mark the Quest area. A Quest text quote like "Rumors say they were seen North of ... Should be enough and add a lot to the Gameplay. Marks just let to "players dont enjoy the World and Rush". Since Ashes seems to slow down and let Players enjoy the Magic of MMOs again. Let them Read or investigate for Most quest. But not every. A Guard that gives you a clear description of your next quest step might give you a mark on the map. But a more adventure like quest should never be clear.
Look at "The secret World" they had a great mix of Adventure quest that made you deep dive into the lore and world. And they had simple solution if the NPC already told you where to go.
Write the necessary quest information down in the quest log and let us fight for ourselves.
Mark NPC's with quests though, no one wants to waste 30min just to FIND a quest xD
I think having quest giver icons is better for newer players but i think secret quests should exist for rare or powerfull gear with a long quest chain attached, also maybe you can add clue's to quests to "unlock" the quest area on the map by talking to other npcs to gather information or find tracks out in the world.
I would say for basic quest (Fetching basic items, hunting common monster, etc) and the early level missions you should give plenty of information and indicators. The easier the quest and fulfillment requirements should have plenty of breadcrumbs. These quest should have basic rewards.
If the quest is just talking to people, please just give me a clear indicator. It can get really tiring pathing through a city just to talk to one npc and to be sent to another back n forth with no clear indicator. So if possible I'd prefer an autopathing function if you plan to implement those sort of quest (but only for talking quest if you decide to even have those type)
But as quest get harder/longer and give greater rewards I feel like its justified to provide less concrete information and make the player have to explore or investigate to get the quest done. Especially if the game plans to have quest that give extremely powerful or bountiful rewards. The player should have to put 2 and 2 together them self without being shown the path with map indicators and trails.
Overall to sum up my opinion. Breadcrumbs that hold your hand are fine if used for basic quest that are meant for learning/teaching you mechanics and what not are fine. But make the quest that will give greater rewards require more effort and thinking from the player in order to complete.
If legendary quest are something you plan to make, require the player to put in an equal amount of effort to qualify for something worthy as a "legendary quest"
A quest's difficulty should be equal to its reward. So the harder a player has to think and perform the greater their reward for their efforts should be.
After played MMO for 15 years, i saw that this last years MMOs turns into a mechanical experience instead a "journey experience" (target locations highlighted, quest givers with icons above their heads, etc).
The point of why people played MMOs for so long was because in that games, you are not limited by the developers path (shooter game where you got a small "arena" with no escape, MOBAs like LoL with limited map, etc...). The open world concept is not only about making a massive map. A massive map just means you only need to walk to explore the map, but, does not this make a game boring ?.
I remember back in 2006 when i started to play WoW and there were no web pages with information, the "exploration feeling" were huge. You not only had to explore the map, but also find out where there were missions.
Right now you just look at the map, see where the quest is, not even need to read the description (what I consider a contempt for the people of the company that wrote them), just look at the place of the quest and do what the "5 words *TODO" said.
In my opinion, a world where, even to find a quest you need to interact to other players or take your time looking for the right NPCs is more enjoyable. This system gives you the possibility to hide items, quest or easter eggs for players who really enjoy discovering things, and introduce in the game not only the map, or quest system, but the *secrets* system.
The only thing I doubt about is: Should a new player be helped to foind out how this quest system works or should learn it by himself ?
Ty for the hardwork dev team !. Don't forget to comment the code
I feel like this is definitely a subjective question and that for many people it will be different. Some people really enjoy hunting down clues and solving hints about where things might be while others are more there for the combat or life skill side of things. I would say that a happy medium is to have some quests that do not display locations or names aside from what is in the dialogue and possibly even have the tracker (if there is one) to be obscured until the quest has some progress on it.
As far as the repeatable, main, or primary quests go I really think there should be an indicator at least on the minimap. There have definitely been some less polished MMOs I have played where I spent as much or more of my early level experience looking for quest NPCs rather than actually doing the quests. And they weren't designed around being an "Oh, this person may be tricky to find" quest. They were often a breadcrumb to lead you to someone that would then give you a decent quest. But the directions would be like "They are in the northwestern section of this *insert city section*". These directions are so vague that with a large area to search you could spend a solid 10-15 minutes just looking for this NPC. And it's not like the other NPCs in the area would be like "Oh yeah, he's over by _____ I've known him for years....".
I think a dialogue only system could be really good, but it would require so much effort by you guys as developers to actually write out good accurate directions for every quest and providing NPCs near the target with hints that I don't think it would be a good use of your time. I think it would be really fun to have some "Story" or "Exploration" flagged quests done this way, but as a general rule a compass pointer and a vague map outline or minimap zone would be non intrusive and enough information for most quests. Some kind of guidance system for the majority of quests is really needed to avoid players getting frustrated and breaking immersion to look at a website. Is it more immersive to be "realistic" where players are just going to alt+tab and look at forums for everything or to have lines pointing at quest objectives but players are actually staying in-game the entire time? I would say it's more immersive to keep the players in the game.
I prefer to have a good system for knowing where everything is. A quest log, icons indicating available quests/completed quests on NPCs along with shaded areas of the map, arrows on the ground pointing in the direction of the quest, and an auto-run feature using those arrows. It can get tedious if you have to aimlessly run around trying to find everything without missing anything.
I prefer to have a good system for knowing where everything is. A quest log, icons indicating available quests/completed quests on NPCs along with shaded areas of the map, arrows on the ground pointing in the direction of the quest, and an auto-run feature using those arrows. It can get tedious if you have to aimlessly run around trying to find everything without missing anything.
Here's the thing: Breadcrumbs are great when done right. While I hated GW2 endgame and didn't play it long, one of the best experiences about the world in that game is that it started to really come alive when you were told: "Okay go." and you got to just run around experiencing what the world had to offer. The problem with this? The second time through was boring as hell if you did everything already on your main. And the third experience? Even freakin worse. Breadcrumbs are great to fill gaps, and they're great to provide a structure to the levelling experience, but they really should just be breadcrumbs. But there's nothing quite like exploring a zone and coming up on an unmarked city on the map or little village in need of help and you get to explore it and maybe you're the first one there, maybe only a handful of people know about it. Who knows, but that feels quite epic.
If the content is just filler and the point of it is just to take up time, then load up some breadcrumbs so I can turn my brain off. But if the game has engaging content that I'll enjoy paying attention to, then leave me to do most of the work.
Please do not add:
arrows on the ground that show me where to go.
auto pathing.
giant highlighted areas on my map to show the boundary of quest objectives.
Please consider:
quest givers need some sign/symbol to alert players.
idk if anything else is needed tbh
At the end of the day, this is a hard question that each individual player will have small differences in their list of what to add in or leave out. And on top of that, the player isn't always right but hopefully this pool of responses pushes the decision making in a general direction.
I prefer to have a good system for knowing where everything is. A quest log, icons indicating available quests/completed quests on NPCs along with shaded areas of the map, arrows on the ground pointing in the direction of the quest, and an auto-run feature using those arrows. It can get tedious if you have to aimlessly run around trying to find everything without missing anything.
The TLDR version of this: I look at Ashes of Creation as a game that gets as close to reality as possible while maintaining a fantasy environment and making every class and profession relevant and necessary for the growth of other classes and professions. We all have to work together. When I think of this game, I think of actually having myself get lost in this world of fantasy and feeling as though I really am part of it through my avatar. I personally wouldn't enjoy seeing another game with !'s and ?'s and a huge quest log on the side of my screen, but that's just me. Some people prefer the ease of completing their quests. I'm totally against any form of autopathing or arrows on the ground/in the air, et cetera, myself because I feel like it ruins my immersion. However, I totally understand that other people enjoy those features because, quite frankly, they already find quests to be tiresome. Thus, I feel that all of these choices should have the option to be turned on or off, with the default being off. Now, given that my TLDR version was that long, you're probably fearing how long my not-shortened version is.
Much like many people here, most likely, and even Mr. Steven himself, I have been a gamer for over 20 years. I've played many of the games out there, some for just a little while, some for a long time, and at least one or two from every type of genre. I love games, and I'm absolutely thrilled to see a game with a creative director who is so passionate about them and willing to spend his wealth to create the ideal game for all of us.
That being said, quests are something that are present in the majority of games but are also one of the most highly criticized features of every game. I won't be the first, nor the last, to say that I'm tired of the typical "go kill this", " go collect that" type of quests that are out there. I'm the type I want to jump in to the action, I want to play the game how I want to and not worry about a bunch of mind-numbing repetitious quests that I've seen a hundred times in a hundred different games.
Let's be creative! A unique game like Ashes of Creation that is finally combing all the best features of all the games needs to be just that: unique. Now all system from other games are the best, and quest systems are definitely no exception. So, not only do I feel that breadcrumbs should be optional from very minimal to hold-my-hand easy, I also feel that the quest system in Ashes of Creation has the opportunity to be very different.
Here is what I suggest, broken down:
Have three types of quests: Main Story, Class/Profession, and Scribe.
Main Story: Quests that are to be completed to go through the main lore/story of the game. These are the pretty self-explanatory quests that you would see in every game, designed to introduce the lore/progress as the player progresses. Optional, but highly recommended. Rewards could be cosmetic, so that there's no pressure to actually get through them quickly.
Class/Profession: Quests that could give equipment, tools, exp boosts, recipes, et cetera towards the class or profession to which it relates. Optional, but again highly recommended. These rewards would be more tangible and actually helpful to the class or profession, but not so much so that a player is forced to do them, but not so little that there's no point. Find the middle ground in there.
Scribe: This is where things get fun. I read about the Scribe profession and how it creates scrolls or books of information and works with the Library. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the game already had the most important foundation to my thoughts on the quest system.
In my opinion, unless you are a Scribe, the only quests you should ever be directly exposed to are your Class/Profession and Main Story quests. I believe that any and all other quests should be initiated by a Scribe. I think the Library should function not only as a place for information to be stored, but also as a quest hub for Scribes. There should be a Quest Board in the Library, which everyone can view (not only Scribes), and as a Node advances the quests would evolve as well. The Library would be the controlling factor for information, including the Map used by any players who are a resident of that Node. So imagine this scenario:
Player 1, a miner, is out in the world hacking away at some rocks and gathering his ore. He stumbles upon the entrance to a cave. This creates a unique trigger for Player 1 as a discoverer of a "Mysterious Cave". Now, at this point, nothing has actually happened, other than for Player 1 he now has a notification that he discovered the "Mysterious Cave". When Player 1 returns to his resident Node, he has the option to head over to the Library and speak to an NPC. At this point, the unique trigger is activated for Player 1 and he ends up turning over the information about the Mysterious Cave to the NPC and gaining a small reward for doing so. Now, the Library issues a quest on the Quest Board for that Node. Since anyone can see this Quest Board, let's say Player 2, a Fighter, who was browsing information in the Library sees a new quest pop up for "Investigate the Mysterious Cave". Now, the Fighter doesn't happen to be a Scribe, but let's say he knows one. Now we introduce Player 3, the Scribe. Player 2 is interested in the cave, because it possibly has some monsters in it that he hasn't killed before or it just seems like fun. So, the fighter calls over to Player 3, the Scribe, and tells him about this quest. The Scribe goes to the library and accepts the quest and teams up with the Fighter. Now, a marker is set on the map for the Scribe so that he knows where to find the cave entrance, and the Fighter has to follow the Scribe to the location. Once they get there, they can go inside and explore the cave and decide what they want to do. It might be nothing but an empty cave, it may have some treasure, or it may be the entrance to a dungeon, who knows. Once they've entered the cave and found out what it holds within, the Scribe's quest has been completed, but the information must now be delivered to the Library. So, the Scribe and the Fighter return to the Node village and the Scribe submits the information to the Library. Now, as a result of those actions, suddenly the information about the cave is added not only to the Library, but there is also an updated marker on every players Map that is part of the Node. Any players who click on that map marker or go to the Library will be able to see details of that location, as well as the Scribe who submitted the information.
Now, let's think of another scenario. I'll keep this one shorter. Let's say you've got a freehold and a farm. Suddenly, some weird rodents start attacking your farm and eating some of your crops, causing you to get less when harvested. At first, you're not going to be able to do anything about these weird rodents. You'll end up with a unique trigger which causes you to go to the Library. If the Library already contains information on that rodent, then great! You'll be able to find out what method you need to use to get rid of the rodents. However, if the rodents are not part of the Library for that Node, then the Library will put out a quest. A Scribe will then need to be required to take up the quest, go investigate the rodents, and report back to the Library before you, the farmer, can find out the method to get rid of them.
If you have a little bit of imagination, I think you can see there are hundreds, even thousands, of possible triggers to create a random quest for a Scribe to pick up. Some of them could be very mild, some of them could be very dangerous (for instance, getting a quest to investigate a dragon's lair). If you died between investigating and returning to the Library, you would lose the information and thus have to redo the quest altogether.
This would make the Scribe a very, very important part of the professions. Without the Scribe's, everyone who is a resident of that Node would have a very crappy Map that didn't have a lot of markers on it, and when unique triggers come up for different professions they would have no information on how to fix the problem, because that Nodes Library would be very basic. Every quest a Scribe would do, would influence the information that all the other professions and classes had access to, directly affecting the speed of advancement for those adventurers and professions. The rewards for the Scribes would be that their prestige goes up. Perhaps, to take it even further, the Scribe would advance in its own profession simply by the amount of information it had provided to the Library and the scale of difficulty of that information. For instance, a Novice Scribe might be someone who did the simple rodent investigation, while a Master Scribe would be someone who would see the quest to investigate the dragon's lair. The higher the difficulty of quests you partake in, the greater the rewards.
The idea behind all of this is that: There will be people who absolutely love doing quests, especially when doing them has an immediate effect on all the players belonging to the Node in which they report the information. There are also going to be people who despise quests and just want to play the game how they want without being told to play it in a certain way by following a bunch of quest progression. I say..... Make all of the quests optional. Leave it in the players hands to decide whether they want to do quests or not. This game focuses, from what I can see, on the player and social aspect of the game and being able to play it your way. Why have everyone get the same quests? With the Scribe system, you have the perfect opportunity to make questing a specialized profession which has a real feeling of accomplishment that benefits all players in a Node. In fact, I've spoken so much about this, that even as die-hard a combat oriented fan as I am, I would be a Scribe in this system because I could combine my Adventuring with Quests from the Library. I could explore and kill all I want while collecting information to take back to the Library. It would be quite thrilling.
I prefer to have a good system for knowing where everything is. A quest log, icons indicating available quests/completed quests on NPCs along with shaded areas of the map, arrows on the ground pointing in the direction of the quest, and an auto-run feature using those arrows. It can get tedious if you have to aimlessly run around trying to find everything without missing anything.
Name checks out, can’t bot if you have to use your brain to quest
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RpgFanatic96Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
To be honest, a little bit of both is best for an MMO in my opinion, especially when there is a large open world structure. The 'breadcrumbs' are incredibly useful in providing a sense of direction and purpose, - especially to new players used to single player games - however it is important to recognise that the size of the map and the uniqueness of gameplay can keep people playing any game long after the introduction of new technologies. Personally, I prefer having smallest amount of breadcrumbs as a guide to gameplay and other more 'hidden questlines/gameplay' as a type of reward for the players who fully immerse themselves in the game lore. Intellectually however, I understand that a little bit of structure is necessary in any game.
Short answer; 'breadcrumbs' are important but not as a sole focus.
I like a system where it rewards players for taking time to read what the NPC wants instead just skipping dialogue. But there are also some people that want to skip everything and just complete the task to get the exp points and go next.
So maybe have a form of hidden quests that if a player clears conditions or find clues about it in the dialogue, they can pursue that quest by saying a specific line or maybe giving a certain item found during another quest can trigger it. An example could be during a gather quest to help a gardener, he could say "I've gotten into gardening more ever since I saw this beautiful blue flower up North. It was in a small cave and I couldn't bear to pick it up from its root. How I wish to see it once more. Can you help gather some materials for me to use as fertilizer?"
The players who skip and go next then gather the materials will get their exp but those who are invested can travel north and search for said flower and hand it to the gardener, they will unlock either a hidden quest, clear some conditions for a future hidden quest, or get bonus experience for taking time to help the NPC.
For me it depends on how good the content actually is.
If the quests are going to be the same generic brain-dead content every other mmorpg uses, such as go kill x amount of mobs in this area then go talk to npc z, then I want breadcrumbs so I don't have to waste my energy on something so boring. Just having to find where something is doesn't make content good or entertaining.
If the quests are actually going to have some depth to them and not be like every other mmorpg i've played then I wouldn't mind having to figure it out on my own. So long as doing so is actually rewarding and teaches me something about the world.
Honestly if the quests aren't entertaining i'd rather just have a game without quests. I know that's not going to happen for AOC but that's my opinion on quests in mmorpgs. I'd prefer to just go explore the world and kill mobs, do dungeons, gather resources to get the exp. If there are quests that will open up new and exciting resources - such as giving us a puzzle to solve to figure out how to open a dungeon door, then that would be interesting and worth my time.
Honestly just thinking about this has made me realize how many braincells I feel like i'm losing doing quests on BDO. Give us some thought-filled content please!
I would like some visual indicator on where to go if i need to find a specific person. As others have said, I don't want to open a dialog with 10 NPCs before i find the person i want. If you give very detailed explications and well marked places / landmarks to reference, that could also be enough. I also don't want people to be glowing bright gold or have huge markers over their heads. That breaks my immersion. It might not be so bad if the NPCs have distinctive features or a slight shimmer / outline
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akabearMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
As a kid, part of the joy playing RGP games was they often did not have much in the way of help in quests. It was up to you to keep a solid memory of everywhere you went and everyone you met and a keep a running notepad to help along the way. There was no internet walkthrough to help you find the correct way, you just had to work it out.
Nowadays, it is way to easy to not even bother with any level of effort, and just look up what someone else did and copy that. You don`t even have to think too much as it is video not text.
So my take on that is that a lot has been lost over the years and I would like to see a little come back.
As a suggestions to explain my thoughts, but not as THE solution, tie some quests into the very dynamic of the individual, the clan they are part of, the town they are active in and move around the placeholders, objectives such that the quest actually has to be worked out from the breadcrumbs.
Now some quests can be fully laid out and the rewards ordinary. Some quests more complicated or longer and the reward increased and put some quests out there that are cryptic and if solved well the individual that is fortunate to have worked it out gets well remunerated.
What I don`t want to see is the Dragon Age approach whereby quest breadcrumbs were strategically placed at long distances apart for no other reason than to drag out the players play time. Give a purpose and meaning always!
Best quests to date within games, from my experience, stem from the witcher series and kingdom come deliverance. As well as the older Baldur`s Gate series..
Comments
Now we come to events. These, I understand, are the result of us levelling in the world and are the direct consequences of that levelling. These should be more down to the player. By all means give us some general guidance, but don't make it obvious who you need to talk to or exactly where they are. Let the player do some work. Perhaps there could be a new symbol above heads for the events. Not an exclamation mark to denote that they have a quest, but a question mark to show that they are an interesting person in the world and that speaking to them might herald results.
As an example, say a node is being progressed to the Town stage. A new resources expedition group sas arrived in the town and wants someone to scout the wilderness and find for them the best sources of a specific resource. You are asked to scout around the town as well, to see if you can't hear gossip of treasures in them thar hills. Check the tavern, they say. So you speak to people in the tavern and it will direct you to another place. There's no definitive quest markers, just the interesting person marker.
You might then be asked to head in to the hills and try to find signs of this resource; a camp perhaps. You won't be given a map path for this, but interesting person markers are evident.
And finally, narrative quests. These I want to be the epic quests of Ashes. Quests where you are given little to no guidance and you have to find the path or the people. Interesting people markers might help you, and NPCs will give you clues, but there are no map directions and no glowing arrows that tell you a particular NPC is who you want.
I suppose there could be simple narrative quests and more grandiose narrative quests, but I really want to see a return to the types of quests Everquest had. These weren't quests you did to level up, because most of them gave little to no experience. What they did give you was a weapon or piece of armour that you'd cherish.
Many years ago, in Norrath, I undertook a quest to find the Paw of Opolla; the forearm of a mysterious gnoll shaman, I believe. It was a long time ago, so bear with me on this. I will admit I cheated a bit, because Alakhazam was a thing back then, but that quest still took me all over the world. It still required me to visit dangerous places and to kill powerful mobs. At the end of it I got this great wisdom item that I cherished. I cherished it because of the work that went in to getting it.
Then there was my epics. Epic quests were a right of passage in Everquest. For my ranger epic swords I had to brave the wilds of Kunark, enter the City of Mist and slay dangerous mobs, defeat the powerful Iksar necromancer Venril Sathir, journey to the homes of the Gods to forge a blade and raid the home of the evil God Innoruuk. At the end of it I was able to stand proud with Swiftwind and Earthcaller in my hands.
Not actually me back then - just an image
Questing should mean something. I would like to see some quest rewards - not all, just some - be as good as crafted gear. You should be able to cherish quested items, and perhaps even upgrade them via crafters or through bonus quests. For exmaple, I walk in to a tavern in a new node and a mysterious stranger in the corner notices that I have a quested dagger. He starts me on a new quest to find a ring made from the gem that used to be on the hilt of my dagger. I can then re-set the gem and improve the dagger.
I realise, too, that we're in a different age for MMOs. As I said at the start of this post, we've all been spoilt by mysterious glowing lines in the air that lead right to a quest giver. I see no reason to take that away for the simplest tasks. The last thing you want to do after collecting 25 bear intestines is to spend ages trying to find the dwarf you need to hand it in to. It might be reassuring to hear the same thing over and over again...
...but we all want to ding as soon as possible. I don't necessarily mean glowing lines in the air, but markers on a map and a quest symbol I do not see the harm of for basic tasks.
It's a game at the end of the day, and most of us have other things to do. Getting your orc belts back to Canloe fast is helpful. If you know where he is, because he's amrked on your map, then you can still spend time with the wife and kids.
When you come to the more extensive quests, however, why not make people work for the items that might see them through their 30s? Experience a quest that you will remember for years. A quest that in 20 years time you will write down on a forum for a new MMO and say:
-Breadcrumbs or arrows guiding the way to quests... I think this is more of an efficiency thing that min/maxers want so they can finish the quest ASAP and move on to continue leveling. That being said, as long as each quest is engaging and actually fun to do, why not have the player read through things and learn about the game? Most players wont ever play through the same content again with the way things are looking, so it shouldn't even be a problem as far as keeping quests fresh for players. You could make this a toggle as well but honestly most players will turn it on just to rush through content and keep up with min/maxers.
-Maybe toss incentives to read through things like bonus objectives that aren't able to be considered unless you are reading through the text. Maybe reading through the quest tells about a shortcut not listed in the breadcrumbs so reading the story allows you to find easier paths while also learning things. Maybe not skipping through everything can give slight reward boosts.
-Factor in decision making so people have to read things through if they don't want a negative outcome.
All of this being said, it wont matter what route you will go because not everyone will be happy with the decision regardless of which you choose. Pick whichever would make the game as a whole more enjoyable, regardless of a players playstyle.
For quest leading, I really enjoy what the most recent Assassin's Creed does with its quests. If the NPC tells you exacts, you get exacts, if they tell you "west" or "near that landmark" or "in this town" then the leads would be more vague. I prefer more vague in general, where you have to actually think about what you're doing while pursuing an objective. Having to wander and talk to NPC for more information is a good thing. I get really exhausted playing Connect the Dots during questing, it's so lifeless.
On the other hand, Archeage held your hand with exact locations, however no auto pathing like in BDO.
I prefer the Lineage2 option but unfortunately you had to google a lot of information and plan ahead as very rarely you knew the available quests as they required a minimum level to start so you would go into a city and have 2 quests but only 10 levels later to discover you actually now have 20 more that you didn't know about.
I think for me, the best way would be to have like a journal of already discovered NPC and Locations and not have your locations marked on map, unless already discovered.
So for example, you get a quest that says kill 10 boars and tells you they can be found south west of X. If you get there and discover the boars, then sure add some sort of markers over their head as I might have multiple quests involving them so I know when I'm done with that zone.
Same goes with NPCs. If I discovered this Chad Warrior NPC, then show me in my journal what types of quests he can give me depending on certain requirements so I do not have to learn all the game from a shady website filled with ads.
Also, what I would love to see is profession quests like in Lineage2; so when I get to level x and I can add my second class, before I can do that, make the player do a long questline (Like a 20-30h long quest meant to traverse various zones) where parts of that questline is shared between different subclass. So let's say all 8x ranger subclass share the same first questline, then 4 out of the 8th share the second quest and only combination of class x specific subclass share the last questline (eg. all classes that want to add a mage subclass share the final part). In Lineage 2 you would make a lot of friends this way, as many players had to share the same questline and often formed parties to make the grind and time pass easier.
Breadcrumps or not, I think the more important aspect is the reason and story behind that quest. If you tell me I have to kill 10 boars cause the NPC needs some meat then it's a shitty quest. However, if you tell me something like... we used to have a ranger in this town but he got an arrow to the knee and now we need to keep the population of bears under control, where let's say this quest let's you kill 5000 bears for rewards every 4h but it is shared between all players in that location, then I would surely do it cause then I have the pressure over my shoulders where I know that I will have to come back at a later date if I do not finish it.
On the other hand, I think the worst experience would be something like a mobile quest line where you auto path from one zone to another and so the entire quest becomes nothing more than a chore where you watch the game rather than play it.
Dividing quests into groups - example: lore quests/ event quests/ work related/ hunting etc. and after incorporating filters on the map menu that can be toggled on/off for each group!
I hate spending time on reading quests ( ya mom of 2, if i have 1-2h of play i don't want to lose 50% of that time reading quests) for just killing 10 rats - i just take the quest and then with some moderate indication of general location ( place name/ direction or map highlight) i go and do it. Only quests that for me are worth the reading time are lore related.
Anyhow allowing ppl to toggle visibility/map indications of quest giving npc/ finding the good spot for the monsters/items collection is imho satisfying since everyone could set it up to their liking.
And also will save us from having tons of ppl not reading the chat but then asking in it for the location for the same monster/source like 15 times in row (general observation- ppl are lazy, those who like challenge tend to stay unnoticed, the rest spam the chats non-stop with "where is X/Y stuff)...
When the weak waver on their path, my spirit shall be their guide
When the strong fall to darkness, my heart shall be their beacon
So quest breadcrumbs should be a must, it should be fun to make quest not frustrating that you don't find a mob which is right by the corner.
The interaction with NPCS in my opinion should be very user friendly and focus on player to player interaction - in this way you attract all kind of players soft and hardcore, if the interaction with NPCS/quests is not user friendly soft players will not play the game cuz is frustrating (if you play 1-2 hours per day and you lose 2 hours just to find a mob is not fun , so you will lose all these players).
BR
Look at "The secret World" they had a great mix of Adventure quest that made you deep dive into the lore and world. And they had simple solution if the NPC already told you where to go.
Enjoy the day
Mara
Mark NPC's with quests though, no one wants to waste 30min just to FIND a quest xD
If the quest is just talking to people, please just give me a clear indicator. It can get really tiring pathing through a city just to talk to one npc and to be sent to another back n forth with no clear indicator. So if possible I'd prefer an autopathing function if you plan to implement those sort of quest (but only for talking quest if you decide to even have those type)
But as quest get harder/longer and give greater rewards I feel like its justified to provide less concrete information and make the player have to explore or investigate to get the quest done. Especially if the game plans to have quest that give extremely powerful or bountiful rewards. The player should have to put 2 and 2 together them self without being shown the path with map indicators and trails.
Overall to sum up my opinion. Breadcrumbs that hold your hand are fine if used for basic quest that are meant for learning/teaching you mechanics and what not are fine. But make the quest that will give greater rewards require more effort and thinking from the player in order to complete.
If legendary quest are something you plan to make, require the player to put in an equal amount of effort to qualify for something worthy as a "legendary quest"
A quest's difficulty should be equal to its reward. So the harder a player has to think and perform the greater their reward for their efforts should be.
South East Asia/Oceania server discord: https://discord.gg/J4Epj77
The point of why people played MMOs for so long was because in that games, you are not limited by the developers path (shooter game where you got a small "arena" with no escape, MOBAs like LoL with limited map, etc...). The open world concept is not only about making a massive map. A massive map just means you only need to walk to explore the map, but, does not this make a game boring ?.
I remember back in 2006 when i started to play WoW and there were no web pages with information, the "exploration feeling" were huge. You not only had to explore the map, but also find out where there were missions.
Right now you just look at the map, see where the quest is, not even need to read the description (what I consider a contempt for the people of the company that wrote them), just look at the place of the quest and do what the "5 words *TODO" said.
In my opinion, a world where, even to find a quest you need to interact to other players or take your time looking for the right NPCs is more enjoyable. This system gives you the possibility to hide items, quest or easter eggs for players who really enjoy discovering things, and introduce in the game not only the map, or quest system, but the *secrets* system.
The only thing I doubt about is: Should a new player be helped to foind out how this quest system works or should learn it by himself ?
Ty for the hardwork dev team !. Don't forget to comment the code
As far as the repeatable, main, or primary quests go I really think there should be an indicator at least on the minimap. There have definitely been some less polished MMOs I have played where I spent as much or more of my early level experience looking for quest NPCs rather than actually doing the quests. And they weren't designed around being an "Oh, this person may be tricky to find" quest. They were often a breadcrumb to lead you to someone that would then give you a decent quest. But the directions would be like "They are in the northwestern section of this *insert city section*". These directions are so vague that with a large area to search you could spend a solid 10-15 minutes just looking for this NPC. And it's not like the other NPCs in the area would be like "Oh yeah, he's over by _____ I've known him for years....".
I think a dialogue only system could be really good, but it would require so much effort by you guys as developers to actually write out good accurate directions for every quest and providing NPCs near the target with hints that I don't think it would be a good use of your time. I think it would be really fun to have some "Story" or "Exploration" flagged quests done this way, but as a general rule a compass pointer and a vague map outline or minimap zone would be non intrusive and enough information for most quests. Some kind of guidance system for the majority of quests is really needed to avoid players getting frustrated and breaking immersion to look at a website. Is it more immersive to be "realistic" where players are just going to alt+tab and look at forums for everything or to have lines pointing at quest objectives but players are actually staying in-game the entire time? I would say it's more immersive to keep the players in the game.
Please do not add:
arrows on the ground that show me where to go.
auto pathing.
giant highlighted areas on my map to show the boundary of quest objectives.
Please consider:
quest givers need some sign/symbol to alert players.
idk if anything else is needed tbh
At the end of the day, this is a hard question that each individual player will have small differences in their list of what to add in or leave out. And on top of that, the player isn't always right but hopefully this pool of responses pushes the decision making in a general direction.
TLDR less breadcrumbs
why not use those.
But plz no obvious things like path markings and marked area etc.
The TLDR version of this: I look at Ashes of Creation as a game that gets as close to reality as possible while maintaining a fantasy environment and making every class and profession relevant and necessary for the growth of other classes and professions. We all have to work together. When I think of this game, I think of actually having myself get lost in this world of fantasy and feeling as though I really am part of it through my avatar. I personally wouldn't enjoy seeing another game with !'s and ?'s and a huge quest log on the side of my screen, but that's just me. Some people prefer the ease of completing their quests. I'm totally against any form of autopathing or arrows on the ground/in the air, et cetera, myself because I feel like it ruins my immersion. However, I totally understand that other people enjoy those features because, quite frankly, they already find quests to be tiresome. Thus, I feel that all of these choices should have the option to be turned on or off, with the default being off. Now, given that my TLDR version was that long, you're probably fearing how long my not-shortened version is.
Much like many people here, most likely, and even Mr. Steven himself, I have been a gamer for over 20 years. I've played many of the games out there, some for just a little while, some for a long time, and at least one or two from every type of genre. I love games, and I'm absolutely thrilled to see a game with a creative director who is so passionate about them and willing to spend his wealth to create the ideal game for all of us.
That being said, quests are something that are present in the majority of games but are also one of the most highly criticized features of every game. I won't be the first, nor the last, to say that I'm tired of the typical "go kill this", " go collect that" type of quests that are out there. I'm the type I want to jump in to the action, I want to play the game how I want to and not worry about a bunch of mind-numbing repetitious quests that I've seen a hundred times in a hundred different games.
Let's be creative! A unique game like Ashes of Creation that is finally combing all the best features of all the games needs to be just that: unique. Now all system from other games are the best, and quest systems are definitely no exception. So, not only do I feel that breadcrumbs should be optional from very minimal to hold-my-hand easy, I also feel that the quest system in Ashes of Creation has the opportunity to be very different.
Here is what I suggest, broken down:
Have three types of quests: Main Story, Class/Profession, and Scribe.
Main Story: Quests that are to be completed to go through the main lore/story of the game. These are the pretty self-explanatory quests that you would see in every game, designed to introduce the lore/progress as the player progresses. Optional, but highly recommended. Rewards could be cosmetic, so that there's no pressure to actually get through them quickly.
Class/Profession: Quests that could give equipment, tools, exp boosts, recipes, et cetera towards the class or profession to which it relates. Optional, but again highly recommended. These rewards would be more tangible and actually helpful to the class or profession, but not so much so that a player is forced to do them, but not so little that there's no point. Find the middle ground in there.
Scribe: This is where things get fun. I read about the Scribe profession and how it creates scrolls or books of information and works with the Library. I was pleasantly surprised to see that the game already had the most important foundation to my thoughts on the quest system.
In my opinion, unless you are a Scribe, the only quests you should ever be directly exposed to are your Class/Profession and Main Story quests. I believe that any and all other quests should be initiated by a Scribe. I think the Library should function not only as a place for information to be stored, but also as a quest hub for Scribes. There should be a Quest Board in the Library, which everyone can view (not only Scribes), and as a Node advances the quests would evolve as well. The Library would be the controlling factor for information, including the Map used by any players who are a resident of that Node. So imagine this scenario:
Player 1, a miner, is out in the world hacking away at some rocks and gathering his ore. He stumbles upon the entrance to a cave. This creates a unique trigger for Player 1 as a discoverer of a "Mysterious Cave". Now, at this point, nothing has actually happened, other than for Player 1 he now has a notification that he discovered the "Mysterious Cave". When Player 1 returns to his resident Node, he has the option to head over to the Library and speak to an NPC. At this point, the unique trigger is activated for Player 1 and he ends up turning over the information about the Mysterious Cave to the NPC and gaining a small reward for doing so. Now, the Library issues a quest on the Quest Board for that Node. Since anyone can see this Quest Board, let's say Player 2, a Fighter, who was browsing information in the Library sees a new quest pop up for "Investigate the Mysterious Cave". Now, the Fighter doesn't happen to be a Scribe, but let's say he knows one. Now we introduce Player 3, the Scribe. Player 2 is interested in the cave, because it possibly has some monsters in it that he hasn't killed before or it just seems like fun. So, the fighter calls over to Player 3, the Scribe, and tells him about this quest. The Scribe goes to the library and accepts the quest and teams up with the Fighter. Now, a marker is set on the map for the Scribe so that he knows where to find the cave entrance, and the Fighter has to follow the Scribe to the location. Once they get there, they can go inside and explore the cave and decide what they want to do. It might be nothing but an empty cave, it may have some treasure, or it may be the entrance to a dungeon, who knows. Once they've entered the cave and found out what it holds within, the Scribe's quest has been completed, but the information must now be delivered to the Library. So, the Scribe and the Fighter return to the Node village and the Scribe submits the information to the Library. Now, as a result of those actions, suddenly the information about the cave is added not only to the Library, but there is also an updated marker on every players Map that is part of the Node. Any players who click on that map marker or go to the Library will be able to see details of that location, as well as the Scribe who submitted the information.
Now, let's think of another scenario. I'll keep this one shorter. Let's say you've got a freehold and a farm. Suddenly, some weird rodents start attacking your farm and eating some of your crops, causing you to get less when harvested. At first, you're not going to be able to do anything about these weird rodents. You'll end up with a unique trigger which causes you to go to the Library. If the Library already contains information on that rodent, then great! You'll be able to find out what method you need to use to get rid of the rodents. However, if the rodents are not part of the Library for that Node, then the Library will put out a quest. A Scribe will then need to be required to take up the quest, go investigate the rodents, and report back to the Library before you, the farmer, can find out the method to get rid of them.
If you have a little bit of imagination, I think you can see there are hundreds, even thousands, of possible triggers to create a random quest for a Scribe to pick up. Some of them could be very mild, some of them could be very dangerous (for instance, getting a quest to investigate a dragon's lair). If you died between investigating and returning to the Library, you would lose the information and thus have to redo the quest altogether.
This would make the Scribe a very, very important part of the professions. Without the Scribe's, everyone who is a resident of that Node would have a very crappy Map that didn't have a lot of markers on it, and when unique triggers come up for different professions they would have no information on how to fix the problem, because that Nodes Library would be very basic. Every quest a Scribe would do, would influence the information that all the other professions and classes had access to, directly affecting the speed of advancement for those adventurers and professions. The rewards for the Scribes would be that their prestige goes up. Perhaps, to take it even further, the Scribe would advance in its own profession simply by the amount of information it had provided to the Library and the scale of difficulty of that information. For instance, a Novice Scribe might be someone who did the simple rodent investigation, while a Master Scribe would be someone who would see the quest to investigate the dragon's lair. The higher the difficulty of quests you partake in, the greater the rewards.
The idea behind all of this is that: There will be people who absolutely love doing quests, especially when doing them has an immediate effect on all the players belonging to the Node in which they report the information. There are also going to be people who despise quests and just want to play the game how they want without being told to play it in a certain way by following a bunch of quest progression. I say..... Make all of the quests optional. Leave it in the players hands to decide whether they want to do quests or not. This game focuses, from what I can see, on the player and social aspect of the game and being able to play it your way. Why have everyone get the same quests? With the Scribe system, you have the perfect opportunity to make questing a specialized profession which has a real feeling of accomplishment that benefits all players in a Node. In fact, I've spoken so much about this, that even as die-hard a combat oriented fan as I am, I would be a Scribe in this system because I could combine my Adventuring with Quests from the Library. I could explore and kill all I want while collecting information to take back to the Library. It would be quite thrilling.
Name checks out, can’t bot if you have to use your brain to quest
Short answer; 'breadcrumbs' are important but not as a sole focus.
So maybe have a form of hidden quests that if a player clears conditions or find clues about it in the dialogue, they can pursue that quest by saying a specific line or maybe giving a certain item found during another quest can trigger it. An example could be during a gather quest to help a gardener, he could say "I've gotten into gardening more ever since I saw this beautiful blue flower up North. It was in a small cave and I couldn't bear to pick it up from its root. How I wish to see it once more. Can you help gather some materials for me to use as fertilizer?"
The players who skip and go next then gather the materials will get their exp but those who are invested can travel north and search for said flower and hand it to the gardener, they will unlock either a hidden quest, clear some conditions for a future hidden quest, or get bonus experience for taking time to help the NPC.
If the quests are going to be the same generic brain-dead content every other mmorpg uses, such as go kill x amount of mobs in this area then go talk to npc z, then I want breadcrumbs so I don't have to waste my energy on something so boring. Just having to find where something is doesn't make content good or entertaining.
If the quests are actually going to have some depth to them and not be like every other mmorpg i've played then I wouldn't mind having to figure it out on my own. So long as doing so is actually rewarding and teaches me something about the world.
Honestly if the quests aren't entertaining i'd rather just have a game without quests. I know that's not going to happen for AOC but that's my opinion on quests in mmorpgs. I'd prefer to just go explore the world and kill mobs, do dungeons, gather resources to get the exp. If there are quests that will open up new and exciting resources - such as giving us a puzzle to solve to figure out how to open a dungeon door, then that would be interesting and worth my time.
Honestly just thinking about this has made me realize how many braincells I feel like i'm losing doing quests on BDO. Give us some thought-filled content please!
Nowadays, it is way to easy to not even bother with any level of effort, and just look up what someone else did and copy that. You don`t even have to think too much as it is video not text.
So my take on that is that a lot has been lost over the years and I would like to see a little come back.
As a suggestions to explain my thoughts, but not as THE solution, tie some quests into the very dynamic of the individual, the clan they are part of, the town they are active in and move around the placeholders, objectives such that the quest actually has to be worked out from the breadcrumbs.
Now some quests can be fully laid out and the rewards ordinary. Some quests more complicated or longer and the reward increased and put some quests out there that are cryptic and if solved well the individual that is fortunate to have worked it out gets well remunerated.
What I don`t want to see is the Dragon Age approach whereby quest breadcrumbs were strategically placed at long distances apart for no other reason than to drag out the players play time. Give a purpose and meaning always!
Best quests to date within games, from my experience, stem from the witcher series and kingdom come deliverance. As well as the older Baldur`s Gate series..