If its not too difficult you could go with 2 options: Easy (icons on npcs and pathways) and hard (info only on quest description and perhaps a compass indication)
I am in the 'Not a huge amount of visual help' camp.
No need for glowing signs over NPC heads. I like the idea of using the notice boards in taverns which direct you to the area where the quest givers are.
Having a shaded area on the mini map is helpful. Not the exact place of what you need, but a vague area to look in.
Quest Givers and Turn Ins
So, here is my suggestion. All quest giving NPCs should have a name bar that is glowing, this is non-intrusive, but still allows those looking for quests, to find them. There could be an option in the settings to allow players to see quest icons above an NPC's head instead.
Locating Quests and Markers
When a quest giver gives a quest and they know the location of the quest, they can mark it on the players' map. Otherwise, all quests should be exploration based where players must go out and search for the quest location on their own. However, just like quest giving NPCs as mentioned above. Monsters and items found that are related to a quest you have, should have their name bars highlighted when targeted.
Seeing small tips for quest givers are fine but i would like to see game forcing you to read quests. Class based abilities for tracking stuff could be too much for community but i wouldn't mind to experience people hiring other classes to help with their quests like ranger for special animals or cleric for spirits and so on.
I'm an old school lineage 2 player, I hate quest with a passion lol. I'd rather grind out levels in a dungeon someplace with a party of guildmates. I do however like rather large quest for let's say a class change/sub class quest that makes you feel like you've earned that next stage in your characters progression.
That being said, if I must do quest as a main source of xp gain it's nice to have markers on the map atleast. I'm a simple meat head that doesn't like to think to much while running errands for the local NPC's 🙄
Just like a lot of other people i'd prefer if there wasn't a huge question or exclamation mark over quest npc's, however, it would be nice if there was a star or a small shine/ effect next to the npc's name (if they have a quest), for instance, something like Aurora Greatstump * .. So basically an idication but without something that really jumps into your eyes.
As for quest breadcrumbs, my opinion is that you could add a system option within games settings, for example, something called quest tips/help. This could, potentially, satisfy all those people who want to play game hardcore/ roleplay without obvious help and casual players. This setting could contain something like a general indicated area for required mobs/gatherables, point to or give clues to a city you have to get to etc.
I would really, REALLY, like if the games quest information contained the clues/ names you need to finish the quest (after talking to npc, like when opening the list of all your quests) or something like the full conversation you had with the npc etc, because i've had some experience with other MMO'S where after talking with npc and accepting quest, if you didnt pay close attention, the quest description is too vague to progress, there is no clue/ tips on map etc. that would help with completing quest, making it hard to progress as well as making the whole experience annoying and unpleasant.
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NixalMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
In a MMO questing should be as easy accessible as possible. Making quests hard to find / complete will do just one thing, scare away casual players.
Just make breadcrumbs / helpers optional as suggested by a lot of other people.
I'm gonna give an example quest that I enjoy and what I did not enjoy
What I do not enjoy:
Quest markers on top of the NPCs doesn't really matter to me but what matters is how many and how long the quests are. I hate World of warcraft classic quests where you take 10 quests from hub and all are pretty much 5 to 10minutes long. There's WAY too much running around and "kill 10 bears" kinda quests.
Also what difference does it make if I have the quest or not? I'm still killing the damn bears so the quest itself just makes me run back and forth between town to return the quest in order to maximize experience gain.
What I enjoy:
Quests should not give experience at all. This way it doesn't force you to make them every stop of the way. I like Lineage 2 big progression quests even tho the excecution especially in class change quests were lacking. However Subclass quest, Nobless quests are awesome.
In order to access your subclass you have to have 3 quests which all contribute to the final quest.
First NPC of the quest asks you to bring him "inferium ore" and in order to get inferium ore you must do another quests which involves killing mobs ALL OVER the place. This quest just "hangs around" while you kill mobs. The quest items are tradeable so you don't even have to do this quest if you have the money to skip it.
Some players farm these items and make their money by it because they know the good spots.
Once you get the "inferium ore" the quest actually starts and it requires you to kill 3 raidbosses. These 3 raidbosses are usually contested and need group PvP and organization to complete.
The quest has many smaller steps that requires you to get bloody fabric for example which are group mobs only on kinda hard to reach location. These mobs are not otherwise very useful so you have to ask your friends to help you in order to get the fabrics.
At last you have to prove you are worthy of the subclass and have to bring quite expensive weapon and convert it to bettter grade weapon. If you don't need this better grade weapon this also creates trading/haggling if someone else is looking for upgrade.
All in all quest like this might take week or two to complete but at least it has some kind of point in the game. It creates economy, it creates PvP, it creates clan interaction and it creates market.
What you get is not millions of experince but you get access to your subclass. Subclass which starts at lv40 (85 is max) and makes you eligible for Nobless quest which you can start once your subclass reaches lv75.
Let people explore the world, kill mobs for ingredients, loot etc. and don't force them to make quests in order to proceed in the game the most efficient way. Tradeable quest items actually create "quests" so to speak. You can go and kill bears for 1h if you then can sell the bearfurs to other players. Where do you need the quest NPC for?
Quest givers should have icons above their heads, you shouldn't have to search through every single peasant in a town in order to find out whether or not they have any quests you're eligible for. The main problem with no quest giver icons is that if you go through all the NPCs in a given area once and find no quests, and then later they start offering quests because of a certain met requirement, you would never know.
That being said, the quest objectives shouldn't be obvious. I'd prefer having to read quest text and only having that information available but since that isn't preferrable by so many others I'd personally settle for the middle ground of giving the general area of the quest on the map but then you have to figure out yourself what you have to do there.
Nowadays, nobody read quest text, because it's faster to instantly click on "accept quest" and then open the map to see where to go / what to kill.
I'll be honest. This is fast-food garbage binge gaming.
Think of a book or a movie.
Do you think a book would be more interesting to read by skipping chapters ? Most likely, no
Do you think a movie is more interesting to watch at x2 speed ? Most likely, no
Video-games, and especially role-playing games, are also more interesting, committing, immersive,... when you don't skip content.
I feel that it should be a mix of NPC Icons and area quests popups and auto completions
I really liked the event system in Gw2, and heart quests that pop up when you go near an area that just complete when your done. So for minor side quests that wouldn't necessarily hinder you if you skipped them, or daily quests / bosses. But this also encourages map exploration to find those quests.
For the main story line. have icon's on NPC's to gently push you to certain areas (if needed). This can also apply to specific Class quests, profession , religion, or society quests. I do like the option for a toggle able glowy trail for these quests types if i click on the quest.
That would be a good balance imo, without feeling like its an endless loop of clicking on npcs and going back into the city, just to find out you now have a quest to kill the things you just killed.
I totally agree. The GW2 system was great at allowing you to organically find these locations by just exploring, but also providing map completion bonuses/achievements so that you wouldn't want to miss anything either. The best part was as you ventured towards these targeted locations you also ran into events ongoing which you could chose top participate in. The fact that you rarely ever had to talk to an NPC to trigger an event was very fluid and enjoyable.
I want no more then a quest marker on a map. If I start getting glowing trails I get annoyed. I also dont mind quest items sparkling that need to be interacted with. IMO I would like to see breadcrumbs have a toggle to turn them off, as for some, exploring means more then quest completion.
Quest giver icons
Yes please! Definitely include them or at the very least have an option for it. No one wants to run around in a metropolis clicking on every NPC to find out if there is a quest available. It's just not fun. In fact it's the opposite of fun. I don't mind if there are a few "hidden" quests here or there without any markers though.
Target locations and other highlights
This is a bit trickier. On one hand it's not fun to get stuck on a quest if the directions are unclear. This can force people utilize a 3rd party site to figure out where they need to go which is bad imo. The game should provide all the necessary information to complete the quest. On the other hand too may markers, highlights etc. kind of makes you feel like someone's holding your hand.
I think some kind of markers are needed. Some can be exact (position shown on map) while others can be a bit more vague (just show a general area but not the exact location).
How do decide which to use and when? I'd say if it makes sense for the quest giver to know the exact location, you could assume he'd be able to mark it in your map with an X. For example if a local guard wanted you to clear a lighthouse of bad guys, it would make sense for him to know the exact location. If the quest giver is not that familiar with the surroundings (a traveling merchant wants you to find some rare plants for example), maybe a generic area highlight would make more sense in that case.
target locations highlighted - meh
quest givers with icons above their heads - do it
Glowing q items - meh
info about this mob is for q(with q progress) when you hover over/highlight it - do it
I think that quest breadcrumbs should be more immersive than anything. If the quest giver knows the exact location of a certain person you have to kill, then the player should be provided with it. However if the NPC doesn’t then a general area should be provided with as well. Reading through text log is something I’ve enjoyed a lot with WoW Classic, and not having my map cluttered with circles and shades is something I‘ve enjoyed a lot more than I thought I would. For quest givers, the exclamation point always felt childish and ruined the quest giving experience for me, especially in WoW. LotRO on the other hand does a great job of this, showing different colored rings above an NPC’s head to indicate the type of quest. Very quickly it becomes easy to distinguish the type of quest you are about to receive, and the incorporation of rings makes it fit well with the tone and feel of the game, and keeps the immersion in place. One thing I am not too fond of about the shimmering nameplate for quest givers in AoC is that I typically play with floaty names off, because I don’t like to see everyone’s name floating above their heads. It gets too crowded and ruins the experience for me. Another option for quest givers would be good in my opinion for those who do not like floaty names. Imagine being in a metropolis looking for a quest and there are hundreds of names floating, how would anyone be able to pick out the one that is shimmering slightly?
I like the old-school way and hate too many UI elements..
No minimap for me. Use your memory or a sign post to find the way
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ilisfetMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
I hate the UI stuff, but it helps when you get lost. Quests should be designed with no UI handholding in mind: detailed instructions, landmarks, investigative exploration. Then add on some toggleable UI elements to remind the player, e.g. area markers pointing to places they've been before that were mentioned in the quest. Nothing the player wouldn't already know from past experiences.
In games like ESO, Oblivion and Skyrim, it's great to turn off the quest markers and wander the world; listen to instructions, ask for directions, actually pay attention to and appreciate your surroundings instead of staring at a GPS. In all of these games, the quests are designed with this GPS in mind, however. Dialogue often is just "kill the werewolf" but no mention of where the werewolf is -- because the GPS tells you. Turning that off leaves you lost with no clues to work with. There's no one to ask either, because GPS. Morrowind doesn't deal with this because you are given detailed directions to each location. RuneScape has a plethora of great examples of quests with diegetic directions.
I prefer no UI markers at all, but acknowledge they can be a needed bandaid when level design gets confusing. I experienced this recently in DOOM (2016) where collectibles and secrets constantly led me off the beaten track and turned around, disoriented -- I'd be wandering for far longer if not for the compass pin. But with good enough level design and quest writing, these UI elements are unnecessary as the player can navigate with their eyes and ears alone.
Remember the TAVERN that you have put into play. And the War Rooms?
Why not ask around someone in the tavern who has accomplished the quest already? Meet up in the War Room and with that you could get the icons in your map.
Also that Radar feature for NPCs how about that only occurs when you have a Ranger in your party. Who is using some sort of Tracking Feat.
Otherwise, even if the quest has been accomplished many times by many other people it will be the breadcrumbs the first time for anybody or any character.
I also like the option of turning it off. I prefer breadcrumbs but being able to turn them off helps. In todays MMO and gaming world in general anything you can't find will be on youtube or reddit anyway.
I don't really like hand holding when it comes to quests. I like the approach Classic (Vanilla) World of Warcraft handled questing.
Available quests show up in the form of an exclamation above an NPC's head - however upon receiving the quest, all you had to go on was the dialogue. This made players read the quest and potentially pick up on the lore as well as immerse them into the game by using contextual clues and directions from the quest dialogue.
There is no map markers or indicators, no 'breadcrumbs'. I don't really like the idea of it. It's just more clutter in the game world when people could just read.
I prefer as little markers as possible. Good descriptions to refer back to and clues to find are best. Sometimes it can be just a bit tedious but most of the time it feels more rewarding.
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T ElfMember, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
edited August 2020
I don't mind if there is something to indicate there is a quest available.
What I really want/need in the quest journal is who/what I need to interact with and where to find them (names). After some time passes I forget these details.
I like just having a marker at location, and of course general marker to signify something has a quest to begin with. With a bit of an objective tracker to keep track of progress. Thats about it. I dont really need a symbol above the quest monsters or anything, more so like a tooltip if mouse over them to signifiy they are part of the quest. So you'd have to actively check the creature or object without an obnoxious marker over everything if you take multiple quests.
I wouldnt mind quests that leave you with the minimum, for like better quest rewards either.
What I absolutely dont want, is some magical trail leading me to the quest area. All I need is to know where I need to do, and the general area its in, the rest I can deduce myself.
I like when quests aren't blatantly obvious. Hints and riddles or finding something in a marked area can be very fun as long as the quests are good. I'd like all quests to be like that but most players probably don't, so a mix of both might be best. Some of the endgame quests could be more hidden. People who like to autopilot quests likely won't last that long anyways. Maybe display the total amount of quests in a certain area like [15/21]. Then if you miss one you'll at least know the general area it is in.
For example you talk to a random npc and they mention that they saw a strange beast enter a cave near the lake that's south of the village. You find the cave but there doesn't seem to be anything there. Some time later you talk to a farmer npc and they mention that their cabbages get constantly eaten or trampled at night. You go to the cave with cabbages in your inventory and then the beast appears.
This kind of quest rewards players who are immersed in the game and lore. Gives a reason to actually talk to and listen to all npcs, not just those with giant exclamation marks above their head.
I think the key is having enough breadcrumbs so that people don't just google a quest, but few enough that the exploration associated within a quest feels fulfilling. Something that could help with this is very thorough map labeling, so that consulting a quest journal and then the map could help you discover something yourself.
I think having a general questlines indicated for a player is fine. These questlines would be basic path for the players to follow: node, archetype, class or a combination of them would be fine. This keeps new players to MMO's on track for progression. Quest journal is a must imo, you need the journal for reference. However, for the more exp'd player i would like to see immersion type quests or questlines that would require interacting with a NPC that is: crying, waving you down, town crier audibly yelling , a lost child whimpering/timidly looking around, or even you maybe just selling your goods/trash of a particular type for gold might trigger a quest from a vendor. I believe quest objects found in open world can be immersive and of course looted objects as well.
edit grammer
I would like most quests to have some kind of breadcrumb but then also have secrete quests that are only found through an item, object, or NPC with specific dialog. The breadcrumb is for generic quests since you have to have those. This allows doe new players to easily access where to go and what to do. With having some non-breadcrumb stuff, this allows for people who enjoy those aspects to search around, solve them, explore new and hidden areas searching the world for something that isn't indicated to the normal group of players.
I would like general locations markers on a Map. If I access my Map or a Notes tab it could indicate the general location. As I go there and look around, maybe talk to some NPC the indicator grows smaller over time. What I DO NOT WANT is large nor small floating icons over NPC heads. We need people in game or over voice chat asking others and helping each other, this grows a social environment. The Backbone of a good MMO is the interactions of its player base.
Comments
No need for glowing signs over NPC heads. I like the idea of using the notice boards in taverns which direct you to the area where the quest givers are.
Having a shaded area on the mini map is helpful. Not the exact place of what you need, but a vague area to look in.
So, here is my suggestion. All quest giving NPCs should have a name bar that is glowing, this is non-intrusive, but still allows those looking for quests, to find them. There could be an option in the settings to allow players to see quest icons above an NPC's head instead.
Locating Quests and Markers
When a quest giver gives a quest and they know the location of the quest, they can mark it on the players' map. Otherwise, all quests should be exploration based where players must go out and search for the quest location on their own. However, just like quest giving NPCs as mentioned above. Monsters and items found that are related to a quest you have, should have their name bars highlighted when targeted.
That being said, if I must do quest as a main source of xp gain it's nice to have markers on the map atleast. I'm a simple meat head that doesn't like to think to much while running errands for the local NPC's 🙄
As for quest breadcrumbs, my opinion is that you could add a system option within games settings, for example, something called quest tips/help. This could, potentially, satisfy all those people who want to play game hardcore/ roleplay without obvious help and casual players. This setting could contain something like a general indicated area for required mobs/gatherables, point to or give clues to a city you have to get to etc.
I would really, REALLY, like if the games quest information contained the clues/ names you need to finish the quest (after talking to npc, like when opening the list of all your quests) or something like the full conversation you had with the npc etc, because i've had some experience with other MMO'S where after talking with npc and accepting quest, if you didnt pay close attention, the quest description is too vague to progress, there is no clue/ tips on map etc. that would help with completing quest, making it hard to progress as well as making the whole experience annoying and unpleasant.
Just make breadcrumbs / helpers optional as suggested by a lot of other people.
What I do not enjoy:
Quest markers on top of the NPCs doesn't really matter to me but what matters is how many and how long the quests are. I hate World of warcraft classic quests where you take 10 quests from hub and all are pretty much 5 to 10minutes long. There's WAY too much running around and "kill 10 bears" kinda quests.
Also what difference does it make if I have the quest or not? I'm still killing the damn bears so the quest itself just makes me run back and forth between town to return the quest in order to maximize experience gain.
What I enjoy:
Quests should not give experience at all. This way it doesn't force you to make them every stop of the way. I like Lineage 2 big progression quests even tho the excecution especially in class change quests were lacking. However Subclass quest, Nobless quests are awesome.
In order to access your subclass you have to have 3 quests which all contribute to the final quest.
First NPC of the quest asks you to bring him "inferium ore" and in order to get inferium ore you must do another quests which involves killing mobs ALL OVER the place. This quest just "hangs around" while you kill mobs. The quest items are tradeable so you don't even have to do this quest if you have the money to skip it.
Some players farm these items and make their money by it because they know the good spots.
Once you get the "inferium ore" the quest actually starts and it requires you to kill 3 raidbosses. These 3 raidbosses are usually contested and need group PvP and organization to complete.
The quest has many smaller steps that requires you to get bloody fabric for example which are group mobs only on kinda hard to reach location. These mobs are not otherwise very useful so you have to ask your friends to help you in order to get the fabrics.
At last you have to prove you are worthy of the subclass and have to bring quite expensive weapon and convert it to bettter grade weapon. If you don't need this better grade weapon this also creates trading/haggling if someone else is looking for upgrade.
All in all quest like this might take week or two to complete but at least it has some kind of point in the game. It creates economy, it creates PvP, it creates clan interaction and it creates market.
What you get is not millions of experince but you get access to your subclass. Subclass which starts at lv40 (85 is max) and makes you eligible for Nobless quest which you can start once your subclass reaches lv75.
Let people explore the world, kill mobs for ingredients, loot etc. and don't force them to make quests in order to proceed in the game the most efficient way. Tradeable quest items actually create "quests" so to speak. You can go and kill bears for 1h if you then can sell the bearfurs to other players. Where do you need the quest NPC for?
That being said, the quest objectives shouldn't be obvious. I'd prefer having to read quest text and only having that information available but since that isn't preferrable by so many others I'd personally settle for the middle ground of giving the general area of the quest on the map but then you have to figure out yourself what you have to do there.
I'll be honest. This is fast-food garbage binge gaming.
Think of a book or a movie.
Do you think a book would be more interesting to read by skipping chapters ? Most likely, no
Do you think a movie is more interesting to watch at x2 speed ? Most likely, no
Video-games, and especially role-playing games, are also more interesting, committing, immersive,... when you don't skip content.
No more fast-food questing, gaming. Please.
I totally agree. The GW2 system was great at allowing you to organically find these locations by just exploring, but also providing map completion bonuses/achievements so that you wouldn't want to miss anything either. The best part was as you ventured towards these targeted locations you also ran into events ongoing which you could chose top participate in. The fact that you rarely ever had to talk to an NPC to trigger an event was very fluid and enjoyable.
Yes please! Definitely include them or at the very least have an option for it. No one wants to run around in a metropolis clicking on every NPC to find out if there is a quest available. It's just not fun. In fact it's the opposite of fun. I don't mind if there are a few "hidden" quests here or there without any markers though.
Target locations and other highlights
This is a bit trickier. On one hand it's not fun to get stuck on a quest if the directions are unclear. This can force people utilize a 3rd party site to figure out where they need to go which is bad imo. The game should provide all the necessary information to complete the quest. On the other hand too may markers, highlights etc. kind of makes you feel like someone's holding your hand.
I think some kind of markers are needed. Some can be exact (position shown on map) while others can be a bit more vague (just show a general area but not the exact location).
How do decide which to use and when? I'd say if it makes sense for the quest giver to know the exact location, you could assume he'd be able to mark it in your map with an X. For example if a local guard wanted you to clear a lighthouse of bad guys, it would make sense for him to know the exact location. If the quest giver is not that familiar with the surroundings (a traveling merchant wants you to find some rare plants for example), maybe a generic area highlight would make more sense in that case.
quest givers with icons above their heads - do it
Glowing q items - meh
info about this mob is for q(with q progress) when you hover over/highlight it - do it
No minimap for me. Use your memory or a sign post to find the way
In games like ESO, Oblivion and Skyrim, it's great to turn off the quest markers and wander the world; listen to instructions, ask for directions, actually pay attention to and appreciate your surroundings instead of staring at a GPS. In all of these games, the quests are designed with this GPS in mind, however. Dialogue often is just "kill the werewolf" but no mention of where the werewolf is -- because the GPS tells you. Turning that off leaves you lost with no clues to work with. There's no one to ask either, because GPS. Morrowind doesn't deal with this because you are given detailed directions to each location. RuneScape has a plethora of great examples of quests with diegetic directions.
I prefer no UI markers at all, but acknowledge they can be a needed bandaid when level design gets confusing. I experienced this recently in DOOM (2016) where collectibles and secrets constantly led me off the beaten track and turned around, disoriented -- I'd be wandering for far longer if not for the compass pin. But with good enough level design and quest writing, these UI elements are unnecessary as the player can navigate with their eyes and ears alone.
Remember the TAVERN that you have put into play. And the War Rooms?
Why not ask around someone in the tavern who has accomplished the quest already? Meet up in the War Room and with that you could get the icons in your map.
Also that Radar feature for NPCs how about that only occurs when you have a Ranger in your party. Who is using some sort of Tracking Feat.
Otherwise, even if the quest has been accomplished many times by many other people it will be the breadcrumbs the first time for anybody or any character.
Heroes Fade but Legends last forever
Available quests show up in the form of an exclamation above an NPC's head - however upon receiving the quest, all you had to go on was the dialogue. This made players read the quest and potentially pick up on the lore as well as immerse them into the game by using contextual clues and directions from the quest dialogue.
There is no map markers or indicators, no 'breadcrumbs'. I don't really like the idea of it. It's just more clutter in the game world when people could just read.
What I really want/need in the quest journal is who/what I need to interact with and where to find them (names). After some time passes I forget these details.
Formerly T-Elf
I wouldnt mind quests that leave you with the minimum, for like better quest rewards either.
What I absolutely dont want, is some magical trail leading me to the quest area. All I need is to know where I need to do, and the general area its in, the rest I can deduce myself.
For example you talk to a random npc and they mention that they saw a strange beast enter a cave near the lake that's south of the village. You find the cave but there doesn't seem to be anything there. Some time later you talk to a farmer npc and they mention that their cabbages get constantly eaten or trampled at night. You go to the cave with cabbages in your inventory and then the beast appears.
This kind of quest rewards players who are immersed in the game and lore. Gives a reason to actually talk to and listen to all npcs, not just those with giant exclamation marks above their head.
edit grammer