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You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Gauging Community Combat Preference [Tab vs. Action, thoughts on Hybrid]
Nalifi
Member
I was wondering, AoC seems to be appealing to both tab target fans and action combat fans. But I've personally not really met anyone who would choose tab targeting over action combat (and was even of the opinion that action combat is simply a modernized and improved version of the other), even as someone who split my time between WoW/FFXIV and BDO/Tera. For me personally, Tera's combat was the SOLE reason I played the game - literally nothing else, which makes me think that a game with good outside mechanics AND a good combat system is all you need to have the golden MMO.
What does the community here think?
~~Nalifi
What does the community here think?
~~Nalifi
2
Comments
We will have to play to know how hybrid feels.
TLDR: The hybrid combat footage was nice and made many people, including me, more confident that they'll make it work. However, Although I prefer action, I do believe that the hybrid combat will need to feel more fitting for an MMORPG and less of a third person shooter for ranged which is yet to be seen.
I'd pick Gw2. (But get rid of the downed state)
Tab targeting with avoidable skill shots and limited active blocks. Short duration cc that were either skill shots or had obvious tells.
I loved ESO's questing but really didn't enjoy it's sloppy haphazard combat system.
Couldn't really get into ArcheAge was playing BDO at the time and stuck with that.
And it's worth pointing out that even BDO had a soft lock.
And Terra's Archer had to get in close to do it's best damage.
That being said Gw2 relies on the doge roll too much.
So BDO would be a close second. I hated the gender locked class system and didn't like the fighting game approach to doing certain moves, despite growing up on Street Fighter.
Since it's an MMO I don't want 100% intense try hard combat 100% of the time. I've got action games and shooters for that.
Both of them are just solid and you always feel like you are in control and have something to do. You have options and the ability to move while casting leads to intense and skill-based combat, contrasted to the stale combat of immobile, tank and spank games. Plus no global cooldowns is amazing. Global coodowns give an artificial feel.
For those unfamiliar, GW2 is hybrid, leaning towards Tab but functionally entirely action. Wildstar is hybrid leaning towards action and full of telegraphed abilities.
I believe the hybrid combat style Ashes is going for is the best option for nowadays because we have a lot of information from other games about what's good and what's bad combat design. My only worry is that you have to choose 80% of one and 20% of the other.
Regardless, as Steven said in the latest Development Update, if they have to remove hybrid combat they'll go for a high mobility tab target system, which is fine by me since that's my personal preference (as long as it's balanced).
I drew this example before, a tab target stun is always going to be better then skill shot stun, even if the skill shot lasts longer or travels farther, because the reliability of a guaranteed stun is just too good to pass up. It also synergizes well with action combat skills, since once a stun hits, aimed skill shots are all but guaranteed to hit following.
For me Hybrid/Tab feels very weird since I am not traditional mmorpg player. I only have experience of 3-4 years of playing mmorpgs like Bdo, Dragon Nest and Tera. Since I grew up with action combat later I could not get into games that has tab target combat
I mean no offense, as I support everyone having their own opinions and preferable systems and gameplay options, but in what way is this fun or engaging?
Not having any desire to learn how to play a game is a completely alien concept to me. Why are you even playing if you aren't going to learn how to play?
If you're not actually playing, and you're just pressing buttons in order, not even moving around, then you aren't really playing a game imo.
It makes sense if you see combat as just a means to reaching other content like crafting or something, but otherwise this just sounds very stale.
Edit:
This is interesting, because I constantly see people complaining that there is no variety in builds in ESO. Everyone always picks the same setup because there isn't enough variety or usefulness in other setups which stems from so few ability slots.
I am avarge at best at it but i have yet to see a tab target combat that feels truly fluid and immersive.
Gw2 was borderline ok for me but pure oldschool WoW tab target is something i can no longer play with.
I always thought that it was strange that the archer shot at me but the arrow curves to follow me even as i run or roll sideways.
Skill shots in short make the combat experience so much more immersive.
Having to choose ability's as combat progresses rather then doing the same rotation over and over again.
After checking out the last Dev video regarding hybrid combat, i have to say it looks ok.
Not super great as action combat fanatic but not bad either.
Maybe i will see Tab target combat that actually feels like combat rather then just standing still and doing the 1 - 9 rotation on my keyboard.
Steven did say they want to make it fluid and that combat is one if not the most important key stone to an MMO.
That there is no auto attack is already great.
At least your left click spam will be locked to action combat.
The right click to target someone in action combat mode is also a really good idea.
So far it looks promising, just have to wait for Alpha 1 and 2 to confirm this
Not sure what you mean here, because you can do the exact same thing by spamming the auto-attack ability in tab-target camera.
Action combat is good but I don't like it in MMO's. I don't want people soloing bosses at lvl 1 cuz of skill based combat, it should be all stat based.
That's my opinion.
Edit: Hitting AOE with every autoatack seems terrible.
You're also advocating for 0 skill like @jubilum ?
I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt since there's more than one person with this opinion, but I can't think of any boon to having stagnant "guitar-hero"-style combat. Standing still and pressing the same buttons in the same order for every fight, from fighting level 1 mobs to end-level raid bosses, and hoping your dice roll is higher this time sounds extremely boring, stale, and un-engaging.
I guess if you just like dice rolls and have a gambler's persona it makes sense, but outside of that I find it hard to empathize with your mindsets.
You're seriously advocating for a pvp where both players just stand still and cast all their spells in order and whoever crits more wins? That's just unappealing as both a spectator and a participant.
If you can convince me of the benefits of it I'm absolutely willing to listen and consider it, and maybe even convince our friends on this forum too.
do you?
From what i understood, there is not auto attack. (As in you click it once and your character keeps attacking.)
Just your left click spam.
The spam ability for melee chars is an arc attack in front of them depending on the weapon. (Bigger weapon = Bigger arc, smaller weapon = Smaller ark)
Now we don't know how the Left click spam attack is for ranged chars like the archer but i expect a simple arrow straight ahead.
So no auto following attacks like your usual tab target abilitys. Hopefully.
Hi, yes. I like it like this, I play lots of hard-combat and difficult games, but for MMo's I want basic combat, click and not move, maybe in pvp could be bad but yeah, thats what I want. I'ts not rolling a dice, it means you win or lose depending on your strength as a character defined by your stats and gear. Not skill.
What you said: "Standing still and pressing the same buttons in the same order for every fight, from fighting level 1 mobs to end-level raid bosses" thats exactly what I want.
I'm still not sure what you were saying in the comment I quoted. Your basic attack is the same in both modes. There's footage of Steven using a bow and it works just like WoW hunters or any other tab-target bow basic attack. Now, if you can free-fire it in action mode is unclear.
That's not even a video game at that point though. That's literally a simple stat check. At that point what's stopping you from playing a game where you walk up to an enemy, and just click "Attempt to Kill" and with that one press you either die or win depending on if your stats are higher or not.
That's not a game, that's just comparing genitalia sizes.
Brother don't exagerate and try to laugh at other people opinions. I don't think anyone likes that. I stated my opinion and explained because you asked, and yes, a game can be stat-based and not a roll dice.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/45969/combat-and-mechanics-active-vs-passive-combat/p1
I go into detail on a couple specific mechanics but I 100% favor more action combat like @Lfmr mentioned about ESO's.
I could not stand WoW's combat of click and let keybinds do all your work.
So when ESO came out with actual skillful gameplay and a limited bar choice selection so you actually had to make choices in your builds with actual combat movement as a real factor?
Oh man a no brainer, it was like a breath of fresh air from the moldy dark room of WoWs combat, to ESO's vastly more interesting pace and combat choices.
Now for people who are old or disabled I understand why having tab target would be preferable