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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
On top of all this, there would also be the occasional world bosses that would take an entire army to destroy in an Open World setting.
The reason your good time isn't important is because it takes away from the open world nature of the game.
Not in any meaningful way.
Again, we are talking about three encounters - in a game that will be 20% instanced. That is very much needle in a haystack type ratios.
In your opinion it doesn't and in my opinion it does.
You could take that same month and a half of attempts on a boss and add in losing the boss to another guild, going to war with other guilds, diplomacy with other guilds etc all surrounding the same boss. All on top of the attempts and dying. See how that would add to the open world and not take away?
The people arguing for harder PvE content just want to make sure the quality of a raid dungeon isn't diminished. There's nothing wrong with that.
BUT
The reason ^these^ people are under fire is because the concerns raised have been:
Sure, that's what Lineage 2 did. But why are you freaking out about a hypothetical when we haven't even seen an AoC raid and its difficulty? You've only seen pre-alpha footage where combat hasn't even been finalized yet. On top of that, Steven has already discussed dynamic difficulty for raids. Please wait and see what they'll show us.
This isn't even a problem in AoC yet and the OP of this thread is trying to point out that open world bosses are really important to this game and instancing isn't part (almost against) the game's design philosophy.
Again, this is a problem that is yet to exist, and you are implying that PvP is detrimental to the PvE experience ---> and by extension you are implying that PvE and PvP need to be separated ---> which is also almost against the design philosophy of AoC that wants PvX <--- which Steven has said is the intermingling and interdependency of PvP and PvE NOT separation. The whole point is that the raid should be nigh impossible to do, and if you can't handle that, get rich and BUY the gear off someone who can.
Now im confused, sry i dont get it here. What means "pvx"? For me theres either pvp or pve. Either you compete against environment or versus players. So if you compete against other players its stays at pvp for me. So thats maybe a bit confusing.
This is the problem right here. A majority of these people arguing for instances don't understand that PvP and PvE aren't gonna be separated in this game. You will be PvPing and PvEing through the day all day in Ashes of Creation. Do you want to grind a dungeon to get a recipe to drop that your crafter really needs? Better defend your room of the dungeon from enemy players in between mob pulls. Uh oh, one of your guilds scouts found a boss up? Better get everybody there as fast as we can to get it. Another guild showed up to steal your boss? Better cut a deal or flag up on them. This is all the stuff that makes open world games fun.
You need to have success in both PvP and PvE in order to progress your character in Ashes. You can't just grind arenas and instances all day to get top end gear.
even if you beat all other guilds who are in the dungeon (win PvP) you can still die from facing the Boss (PvE)
AND
even if your guild knows how to beat the boss (PvE) you can still die from other guilds in the dungeon (PvP)
This means either everyone in your guild does both PvE and PvP
OR
Half of your guild are PvPers who defend the PvE ers while they fight the Boss
Yea i get that but i have to ask google what in hell means pvx then. He better call it a pvp game then next time so everybody knows what he gets!
nice evening everybody!
He calls it a PvX game because that's what it is.
Well thats a horrible defintion of pve then^^. But ok i got that too, for me its then still a pvp game. I could like it, we will see how this will impact...
@anotherone
I just wanted to try and reassure you if you are worried or whatever. You really shouldn't worry about it as much as some people are. I shouldn't have said you WILL be PvPing all day. There is a possibility for you to PvP in mostly everything you will be doing is what I should have said. You might go long periods of time without PvPing at all. It's going to be a very large map with plenty of places to tuck yourself away, and not every boss kill in Lineage 2 had a massive fight over it. Not every day there was an enemy gank squad sweeping through your particular dungeon. Maybe you join a very neutral guild on the server who everybody loves? Who knows.
It could be an item that you have to wear to fight the boss, or an entrance that only x number of people can enter - and this will affect how much PvP will be in the Boss Fight.
From what I know, at least one of Lineage 2's bosses was in the world, but really far away, so people could see the fight, but they couldn't attack people who had "claimed" the boss - which is pretty close to instancing but better.
Except it's not. It's pvp with sprinkles
No I'm sorry that's just your opinion. All the end game gear comes from bosses and crafting.
https://knightsofember.com/forums/members/winner909098.54
Please try to understand that a pure PvP person also has little interest in Raids, they find them boring.
If you're a pure PvE person, find those people and guild with them. They scratch your back, you scratch theirs.
Ya, PvX is another one of these new and confusing terms, Intrepid is working on.
It just means; while you are chasing that carrot, your experience can be influence by other players.
Does this mean ganking? Sure, that's one feature. There are many more too. Wars, alliances, market competition, trade wars, politics, etc.
AoC is a MMORPG. That means people, and that means interaction, wether peaceful or not.
Anyone can comp stomp. PvP adds an element the AI can not replicate (eg. haggle).
Don't get scared by the PvP talk, it's in their nature. If the is no PVE, there will be no backbone for the PvP, hence PvX. 😁
Pvx is player against x (x stands for anything and everything). There shouldnt be such thing as pve players or pve players. There will be no progresion without either, so players should be prepared for both if they are to play this game.
Yes sir, it's gonna be the complete package. The best MMO to come out in a long time is what Ashes is shaping up to be. Just because for example my guild is focused on PvP doesn't mean you won't find us in dungeons and killing bosses, we are gonna need to do it all. It just means I'm not so willing to turn to diplomacy and peaceful resolution. The beauty of PvX.
or we simply go for 0 items per week, the same way we don't give gear progression to instanced PvP gameplay.
If you are taking on an open world boss, you get two pulls - maybe three if you are lucky.
6 weeks of that is at best 18 pulls.
One nights raiding in attempting to take on this encounter will be 50+.
6 weeks will be 300 pulls.
What stings more, losing something that you spent 18 pulls on, or losing something that you spent 300 pulls on?
Or even better, as per my suggestion, we could have both.
All progression in Ashes is created via PvE.
All progression in Ashes is subject to be lost via PvP.
Instanced content as per the suggestion being made fits in to this perfectly - progression being created via PvE, and subject to being lost via PvP.
I do want good PVE, but I disagree that it should be easily accessible to all. A handful of high level players shouldn't be guaranteed to kill anything without putting some work in. Even then, I think certain world spawns should try to actually run away when they're being killed, maybe back to a randomly set 'roost' or what not. Make the fight feel like a fight, not some queue'd up grind.
The difference is it's a super rich guy who loves MMOs funding his dream game and he's not beholden to any bigwigs. That's why I'm having a little faith right now.
I agree with this, but from what I have seen he is also someonoe that thinks he knows more than he does, and often isn't willing to listen to those he has hired to actually make the game for him.
There are some truely odd decisions in this game - a simple example of this is the family summons.
In a game where almost everything you do can be taken off you by another player, where location of players and materials actualyl matters, where people can attack you at literally any time (even in town) for no reason, where people can literally destroy your home and everything you ahve built, there are not going to be large numbers of casual players with limited time to play in the game.
Casual players with limited time to play are exactly who the family summons is aimed at.
It is out of sync with the game design as a whole - and is easily abused by others.
The entire system came at us as if it was something Steven made up on the spot and stated as if it were already decided to be in the game. It absolutely did not get put past his senior staff before he told us about it - and that kind of thing has me worried for the game.
@Noaani
I completely agree with you on this. Steven did however say, that he is willing to test the system in the Alphas to fix all potential abuses the Playerbase comes up with through limitations to the system. It was announced, that they might even consider scrapping it completely, if we find abuses that go against the core game design, but can't be fixed through limitations.
I'm still questioning it right now. The limitations he set already just don't seem to make much sense. I very much like this limitation (and i think it is absolutely necessary), however -
the fact, that you can't teleport with resources in your inventory seems rather iffy to me. It was designed for casuals. You think casuals will take their time to return to the city and empty their inventory so they can teleport around when they log-in the next time? Hell, no.
They play with their friends somewhere in the wilderness, log out and return whenever they feel like it. Which results in them not being able to utilize the family summon the next time they log in. While necessary as a restriction, it essentially also inhibits the use it was originally designed for.