Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
Have mercy on them man... you’re snapping on them too hard with such clear and reasonable arguments.
All they want is safer and more interesting PvE because a birdy whispered to them and told them that for whatever reason AoC’s current game design won’t allow for that.
You make too much sense. I’m not sure they can handle it.
I think it's important to point out, there IS a valid point in this part of your argument, a fatal flaw of Archage's system is that there was too FEW territory to be held. Which does cause the problem of only a few guilds holding stuff forever. It is important that there are LOTS of nodes in ashes so that it is similar to eve's territory map. If there are only a dozen or so nodes you can run into problems of a handful of guilds controlling everything.
In concultion moar nodes plz.
I heard a bird ♫
Not at all we just don’t want pve to be a joke. Look at arch age unchained the whole server sits there waiting for spawn then it’s a pvp dps race... the boss is nothing more than a loot pinyata that any group could kill with ease. That’s not a pve boss that’s a pvp spawn event lol
Well, i didnt want to trigger you. Bricktops alt was a joke.
So just to make it clear, im no pve hiding instance fanboy or whatever you "tryhard keyboardwarrior" think im interested in.
This is an early state of the game and things are going to change and whats interests me the most is what kind of content will be enjoyable to spend money for. All the games with this kind of payment method failed so its quite interesting what they have in their hands for the crowd to keep this game alive.
Attention im kiddin now, you could buy multiple accounts to compensate the lack of players and buy multiple cash shop items to keep the servers payed and in good health (performance).
But jokes aside, i still hope this will be a game for pvp and pve people! My other half isnt just good in pvp.
So long, have a nice day!
You are using one example of open world bosses and then acting like that's all an open world boss can be. That's like me doing an easy entry-level dungeon and acting like that's all an instanced boss can be.
There are some games that have open world bosses with good mechanics and I don't think it's that hard to imagine more.
From what we know, the design goal is to have these bosses in the open world and saying you can't do that doesn't help. It's like someone saying they want to make an FPS in medieval times with bows and a bunch of COD players saying that's impossible, there needs to be guns.
If you are really passionate about having challenging pve content then recommend mechanics that could exist in the open world and help.
Examples of mechanics that make deaths penalize the encounter, limit dps in some way, or force the raid to perform some kind of action that is independent of something like damage.
Saying this is impossible and they need to do it the same way as everyone else isn't helping or original for that matter. You do realize you are saying that something is not possible and all it takes is someone to do it to prove it's possible?
Its so lazy development and boring content.
0dbea148-8cb8-4711-ba90-eb0864e93b5f
Dear sir I do believe you are mistaken. That of course would indeed be my fault. Allow me to pontificate.
I would like both Mythic+™️ and Arenas™️ at the EXACT SAME TIME.
@forkbomb
Again, incorrect. I clearly mentioned, that we need to "bridge" the gap. Open world PvE content can never be as hard as instanced content, in terms of actual PvE difficulty. That's because you can design the content to be hard, medium, or difficult for a fixed number of players. And guess what? It doesn't have to be as hard as instanced content, but it can get close and that's what matters.
To come out with a post saying that people want Mythic+ dungeons like in WoW, shows that you clearly did not understand the points made by said people/posts. We only want the content to be difficult. Plain and simple. We don't want it to emulate WoW in any fashion. Re-read the posts in question again.
As such, it is hard to take that comment about instances being used for story content as saying definitavely that there will not be instanced raid content in Ashes.
I'm still confused by the notion that people don't want this - I understand that it is content that some people won't want to run themselves, but that is not the point.
PvP players in a PvP game need targets. If the targets in that game are all other PvP players, that game will have a short life.
There need to be people that play the game to do thing other than PvP, and then those PvP players have actual targets for their PvP.
Ashes has crafting (via caravans) as a singular source of PvP from non PvP activities. As Archeage proved, this is not enough.
All adding instances will do (assuming a small number of single encounter instances that reset weekly) is allow another group of players to make Ashes their primary MMO. These people will then run this content, which adds in mroe targets for productive and profitable PvP.
Basically, adding a small number of instances means more people for crafters to sell gear to, and more people for PvP players to kill. Without it, these two groups of players will be the only players that play Ashes for more than a few months - with it, there will be at least one more group.
Again, this is nothing but good for the game (again, assuming these instances don't take people out of the game world for too long). It adds something to the game play of literally everyone in the game, even if they do not take on the content in question themselves. It increases the viability of the game as a commercial product.
All of this, and the only argument against it is "it doesn't fit in with Ashes" - a game we already know will have around 20% instanced content. The claim that a small amount of instanced content doesn't fit in a game that will have 20% instanced content is just odd, no matter the spin people try and put on it.
If you are reading this in to the points being made, that is your pre-concieved opinions on players that enjoy PvE content coming through, it is not coming from the arguments being made.
Leave your pre-concieved, prejudicial accusations at the door please.
The problem with this is that is not how territory in Ashes works.
If you are a citizen of a node, and I walk across the map and walk in to your town, nothing happens to me.
If you attack me and a guard in your node sees you attack, the guard will fight you (as far as we know). The only real way there would be any exception to this is if your node was at war with my node - and node wars are a temporary situation.
On top of that, if I wanted to, I could simply become a citizen of your node. I don't need to leave my guild, I just need to have an apartment or other housing in your node. People in a node have no means of saying who can become a citizen of the node, all they can do is say how much housing there is.
If you are coming to Ashes of Creation to try to find EvE's territory system, you have the wrong game.
Q: What did one wall say to the other?
A: I'll meet you at the corner.
TL;DR
Try reducing your word count by roughly 60-70% and you may see positive results in your arguments made.
😉
If you want to participate in an actual debate on a forum, be prepared to read.
Any discussion that can be reduced to less than 100 words at a time is not worth having.
I agree, your posts are too long to bother reading.
You should try making that point on Twitter. Everybody there is automatically correct.
Oh look I'm being just like you, but with less words.
Most people don't mind some sort of challenging PvE Content in an instanced version at all. They don't want any sort of vertical progression associated to it as that would instantly start taking away from the Open World Nature of the game, the scarcity of resources and the fight for these resources.
These people would complain about vertical progression (PvP Gear) aquired from instanced Arenas as well.
I am personally all for challenging, instanced PvE Content as long as it doesn't affect the vertical strength progression at all. Titles, Cosmetics, Achievements and horizontal PvE enchantements? Sure, go ahead. Make as much instanced PvE content as you want, because ultimately this will give PvE Players an incentive to go out into the open world and participate in the open world content of the game. With challenging (possibly even competitive) PvE Content as their incentive to gear up within the open world.
Also, you are right. Ashes won't be a heavily territorial MMO like Albion, Eve and Crowfall. Going into the game expecting that, or even worse: trying to change the game to be like that is not good at all. However, I didn't find a single thread attempting to do that so far.
Take a look at what I am talking about here - three encounters that can each be killed once a week. If each encounter dropped material to craft 2 items (which is what I would expect), then that means a raid consisting of 640 item slots would get exactly 6 items a week - but only if they managed to kill all three encounters (which should take weeks of work to master). Additionally, all of those items are subject to being lost in PvP in their material form while attempting to traverse back through the dungeon after completing said instance.
Again, so many people here are making assumptions as to how this will ruin the game without actually putting any real thought in to what is being asked for.
Guilds wanting to gear up on raid level PvE content (which is the best way to gear up) would still need to take on open world encounters to be really effective at it, it's just that these instanced encounters give guilds some guaranteed content - leaving them to have to fight for the rest.
The OP of this thread has suggested that they think the game will be territorial like that.
I was simply pointing out to them that it is not.
Six free items a week sounds like a great way to take away from the open world to me. It genuinely isn't important if you have to travel to and from town, because that just isn't risky enough and that's why everybody is fighting you over this. Everybody here is arguing there should be NO guaranteed free loot for ANY guilds on a per week basis. Once the fight is figured out and the content is completely farmable it's 100% free loot, and that process doesn't take long. I know you are going to tell me your opinion that it isn't free loot but it 100% is, and that's why you have hordes of people disagreeing with you. Make fights with lockout mechanics that require 30 mins of PvP to secure the boss for yourself if you want attempts at bosses without anyone ganking you. I see the complaint "I don't want one person being able to wipe my 40 man raid". If you have a guild that's capable of doing 40 man raids you are capable of bringing extra people as scouts and defense. ONE person should never wipe a 40 man raid that's paying attention. If it happens that's on you and your incredibly inattentive guild.
This game certainly has SOME aspects of territory control. (Castles, Dungeon entrances, Caravan routes, etc) I don't think anybody is suggesting that it has as much as EVE though. Not even the OP. And for the people saying "NOBODY was suggesting mythic raids" I have absolutely seen people begging for 100% legitimate instanced raids with multiple bosses inside that drop the best gear possible while admitting they don't like PvP. Maybe YOU aren't asking for that, but some people certainly are.
Just so we have an understanding M-mr. Bricktop, I have always agreed with your point of view.
Hi, there!
maybe you are right, maybe it is the way the game is rollin. But im in fear thats just a few weeks or month of fun here.
Imagine, just for a short time, you are on a server and dominating some territory or whatever. What a pleasure to go inside those dungeons?! But maybe you compete with no other players anymore because everyone knows you are dominating. So instead of having a instanced raid with hard encounters some good old challenging pve. You have neither pvp and pve. you just end up with a pinata. Alone.... Thats my biggest fear here.
And i enjoyed open pvp a lot of. Thats the best experiences i got in mmos. But like i said it last not very long.
The best fights we got were on raid days who we all were prepared for pvp before the raid to get inside and after the raid to get home. But it would be horrible gamedesign and for me just laziness at all, to not seperate it in instances for much more quality (pve and pvp) content.
Pls dont misunderstood, im all with you with open pvp. Its a good thing to have a dominating open pvp world but its just not all im expecting. Especially not for a subscription model.
Drop in player population can happen either way, and instanced pve content will stop being challenging after you do that insurance a couple of times.
I think worst that they can do is starting to implement systems that divide the players. With current promised system, you dont have a choice you play in the same world as everyone else, not use node as hub for surrounding instances.
Guilds absolutely should be able to guarantee one or two days a week where they know they will have some specific content they can take on. It is odd to argue otherwise, as you want more people to be in the game (more PvP targets), and most established guilds will only come to a game if they are able to build a schedule - while caravan runs and such can fill up some of that time, PvE content also needs to fill up that time.
However, the main point that you are making is in regards to the lack of PvP - obviously. The thing is - and this is key, the entrance/exit to this instance will essentially become a PvP hotspot. As guilds defeat the content, they need to zone out - it would be stupid to think that there won't be someone there waiting for them.
Literally all instancing the encounter does in regards to PvP is move the potential point of conflict from being during the encounter, to when the raid exits the instance.
People that are making this complaint to me come across as whining that if they can't attack the raid while it is killing the hardest content in the game, they can't PvP at all.
That may not be your intention, but that is what it comes across as - because it is absolutely rediculous to think that guilds taking on this content won't still be subjected to a large amount of PvP.
If you are taking on actual, proper top end PvP content, the 40 people in the raid don't have the time to pay attention to anything other than that encounter. If you have the ability to even notice a rival, then the encounter is not hard enough.
It isn't a case of the guild being inattentive, it is a case of the content requiring literally 100% of your attention - by design.
And sure, we could all just take additional people along to 40 person content, but then we are taking the rewards from 40 person content and spreading it out over 80 or even 120 people. That doesn't sound like a particularly fun guild to be in. Now, they could just make it so the content rewards are tuned to 80 people, but that completely kills the argument that sometimes you will not have PvP with these fights (which is a dead argument as far as I am concerned anyway).
Dont know how you understand that. I didnt ment to instance the open world, holy ..... not!
You can just divide what is in the game. If there no pve content you have not that players to divide... If this makes sense
And again, the raids, encounters design, whatever, have to be challenging. I played AoC over years and our raid wasnt fully geared from those raids at all. Its a question of design. You dont have to put top gear drops in this raids. Just something everyone needs to have, something you have to keep and bring to a node or somewhere else to get !xyz loot!.
But just have open raids, where you in worst case, havent neither the one or the other is just not worth to spend lifetime in and money for me...
I got your thought correctly, dividing players means, if theres progresion and content in instanced form, more pve centric players will focus on that, while other players will do open world stuff, or even worse, everyone will focus more on instances as its easier. Even if top end loot is not aquired from instances, won make a differences, either way, top end raiding will be accesable to top end players.
So my opinion, tieing any meaningfull progretion to open world forces all kind of players to interact with each other and not dividing them.
No sorry I disagree guilds shouldn't be able to guarantee boss kills and gear. This is called "hand holding" and there are plenty of games you can play for that. Guaranteed boss kills and gear take away from the open world aspect of the game, I'm just gonna keep saying this until I am absolutely blue in the face. I also find it hilarious that your go to defense is to claim everybody is just bad at PvP or wants to gank raiders, and it has nothing to do with the fact that people are begging and pleading with you to stop trying to take away from the open world nature of an open world game.
Killing people zoning out of boss portals on a loading screen is absolutely nobodies idea of a good time in PvP. It would devolve into hopping in and out of the instance during fights and being all around terrible. The less instances of any kind, the less chance of a loading screen. I don't care if it's a .1 second loading screen it's an advantage for the people already in the room or who are waiting outside of the room. Sure you could code things to prevent all of this, but why would they need to? Why don't they just stick the boss in the open world and call it a day instead of coding extra garbage and an extra instanced room just to make the small minority happy.
Again, nobody suggested you bring 120 people. You can bring 10 extra people to scout the area around the boss and watch to make sure nobodies sneaking up on you. Anybody who is in a guild is prepared to do guild activities without the promise of new shiny gear every single time. That's exactly why it's not important if the people who only log in tuesdays and thursdays for their farm content quit the game. They most likely aren't going to enjoy Ashes of Creation anyway where it could take you weeks or months to earn a new piece of gear and you aren't showered with rewards and praise every 5 minutes.
Everybody agrees we all want interesting and challenging PvE content. But when it takes away from the open world scope of the game you are gonna get a bunch of people upset. The devs have stated the game is hard, the game isn't fair, the game isn't for everybody to enjoy, not everybody will have the best gear, not everybody will kill all the bosses, etc. Why do you feel the need to add 6 items per week for all guilds to obtain if the devs have stated this?
Hey, i think its not all black and white, there have to be a sweetspot in my opinion. Only a hardcore open pvp "player driven" world is too short sighted and needs players to work. maybe 20/80 is a good balance but we will see!
I just saw just too many games died with good intensions and bad game design.
One of the very core, basic facts of raid encounters in Ashes is that they will have an amount of randomization to them. An encounter you pull today that does one type of damage may instead do a different type of damage next time.
Since these encounters will need to be highly tuned and highly curated in order to meet the claims Intrepid have made for top end content in Ashes, this randomization will not only make it so that an encounter can never be on farm status, but it also means there will be some instances of encounters that are literally impossible, and even others that are technically possible, but significantly harder and out of the guilds ability.
This is a fundamental of content in Ashes. Maybe I should have mentioned this earlier when it became clear I was talking almost exclusively to people that don't understand top end PvE content, but better late than never.
This one simple fact about the game means no encounter can ever be considered a guaranteed kill - except for open world bosses that will always be killed by which ever group of players lasts the longest. Having someone snipe your entire raid while working on the hardest encounter in the game for the last few hours is also noones idea of a good time.
Why is your "not a good time" more important than mine?
You are forgetting - if you know the boss is up, so does every guild on the server capable of killing it. Boss spawns are known mechanics.
10 people is not going to stop you when you have a few full raids heading to you. 80 likely won't either - but suggesting a need for more than that is absurd.
Spending a month and a half working out how to kill an encounter, to then finally get a spawn that plays in to your guilds strengths on the 6th or 7th attempt, only to then have the rewards from that kill taken from you in PvP on your way home is in no way fair.
This content absolutely fits in to the core concept of this game.