The Gift of Life - Cleric Alpha One Preview

Amma

Healing me or my group while doing damage was the most interesting thing for me while playing discipline priest in wow. I like it very much to not just standing around as a healing battery but to be able to be a little bit offensive in the fight, so for me personally what i see is a move in the right direction.
I wonder if every other archetype will get such passive healing abilities for themself through cleric augments in a less effective form.

Warth

spun666 wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

spun666 wrote: »

I just really hope that most of these abilities don't force your character to stop moving. They have such long animations and getting killed in an animation lock is no fun.

Here is how I would see it (Hard cast means having to stand still for the cast and soft cast means being able to move during the cast):
Castigation - instant no root
Judgement - soft cast
Hallowed Ground - hard cast
Exorcism - channel ability with root
Damnation - soft cast
Devotion - instant no root
Divine Censure - long hard cast
Benediction - soft cast
Resurrection - hard cast

yeah, see that doesnt sound awful. My other thought is I really dont like getting locked by an animation, or the allowance of animation canceling (when you can still use the ability).

Allowing us to cancel a spell by moving is really nice and adds a nice skill cap to abilities.

i agree with that. Being rooted in place just feels bad for non-chanelled abilities. I'd much rather habe them auto-cancel hardcast when i move. Rooting just takes away from fluidity and player control.

daveywavey

pyreal wrote: »

2: Some of the spell names are, by a wide margin, in the 'generic catholic trope' category. See Exorcism, Benediction, Hallowed Ground, Damnation.
Divine Censure is a good name, it describes the spell but without making you feel like your watching a horror movie about nuns.

3: Devotion has no bearing on healing, healing quickly, nor describes the action of the spell. Something along the lines of 'Rushed/Hastened Prayer' would be more appropriate.

The terms aren't specifically Christian.
For example - Exorcism isn't purely a Christian thing. Plenty of world religions practise it. Hallowed ground is simply an area of ground that has been blessed. Again, it doesn't specifically relate to Christianity.

I don't mind a healing spell called "Devotion". It could signify the Healer's devotion to their party member, or the Cleric's devotion to a healing god/goddess. My biggest query with it was that, for a "quick heal" spell, it didn't appear to be that quick.

Duckge

The abilities themselves look great and have me excited for augments, but they also spark some questions from a design/pvp perspective.

• I wonder if the ratio of damage to heal abilities fulfill the healer fantasy. It'll probably change as more skills are unlocked, but are these level 1-10 abilities sufficient for the design of the New Player Experience? The low level combat loop seems to focus on damage first and healing second.
  
• I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like Castigation is meant to be the spammed ability for low level Clerics. If that's the case is the design subverting the traditional idea of a caster healer in the back to more of a frontline melee? There are many casted abilities shown, but again I'm thinking of the low level combat loop and what Clerics spam when all the other abilities are on cooldown or when players are flustered.
  
• I wonder why there is a delay (about 1 second maybe?) between finishing the cast of Devotion and the target receiving the heal. Usually low level skills are designed to be more forgiving and it is much less satisfying when there is a delay.
  
• The cast time for Resurrection seems pretty short (about 3 seconds?). I liked how in Archeage, Revive had a 7 second ish cast time which was a decent buffer for enemies to counterplay (gap close + interrupt).
  

I am definitely being overly critical without having firsthand experience, but I hope these points are considered. Many MMOs struggle with their New Player Experience and I hope AOC's NPE is heavily critiqued to facilitate growth after initial release.

(my bad, I didn't see the class discussion topic prior to posting this so I reposted it there. Please delete this post)

Duckge

The abilities themselves look great and have me excited for augments, but they also spark some questions from a design/pvp perspective.

• I wonder if the ratio of damage to heal abilities fulfill the healer fantasy. It'll probably change as more skills are unlocked, but are these level 1-10 abilities sufficient for the design of the New Player Experience? The low level combat loop seems to focus on damage first and healing second.
  
• I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like Castigation is meant to be the spammed ability for low level Clerics. If that's the case is the design subverting the traditional idea of a caster healer in the back to more of a frontline melee? There are many casted abilities shown, but again I'm thinking of the low level combat loop and what Clerics spam when all the other abilities are on cooldown or when players are flustered.
  
• I wonder why there is a delay (about 1 second maybe?) between finishing the cast of Devotion and the target receiving the heal. Usually low level skills are designed to be more forgiving and it is much less satisfying when there is a delay.
  
• The cast time for Resurrection seems pretty short (about 3 seconds?). I liked how in Archeage, Revive had a 7 second ish cast time which was a decent buffer for enemies to counterplay (gap close + interrupt).
  

I am definitely being overly critical without having firsthand experience, but I hope these points are considered. Many MMOs struggle with their New Player Experience and I hope AOC's NPE is heavily critiqued to facilitate growth after initial release.

daveywavey

Gooose wrote: »

[*] I wonder why there is a delay (about 1 second maybe?) between finishing the cast of Devotion and the target receiving the heal. Usually low level skills are designed to be more forgiving and it is much less satisfying when there is a delay.

Yeah, it's labelled as a "swift act". It didn't seem very swift, to me.

WolfKnowsAll

Always loved playing any type of healer class's so it will most likely become my main, no idea why just like keeping friends/guild members alive.

Damokles

spun666 wrote: »

Damokles wrote: »

spun666 wrote: »

I just really hope that most of these abilities don't force your character to stop moving. They have such long animations and getting killed in an animation lock is no fun.

Here is how I would see it (Hard cast means having to stand still for the cast and soft cast means being able to move during the cast):
Castigation - instant no root
Judgement - soft cast
Hallowed Ground - hard cast
Exorcism - channel ability with root
Damnation - soft cast
Devotion - instant no root
Divine Censure - long hard cast
Benediction - soft cast
Resurrection - hard cast

yeah, see that doesnt sound awful. My other thought is I really dont like getting locked by an animation, or the allowance of animation canceling (when you can still use the ability).

Allowing us to cancel a spell by moving is really nice and adds a nice skill cap to abilities.

I remember a Fire Mage in my WoW raid back in Legion, who got the legendary boots that let you move while casting...
He never had them equipped because he could not cancel his casts by moving anymore xD

jorgym123

I though it looked great, can't wait to play when alpha 2 drops. I only had a couple of thoughts when I watched the video. I feel like seeing an ethereal hammer manifesting above someone and then smashing down would be cool.
Also, I've played my fair share of mmos and I feel like resurrection abilities usually look about the same. Actually seeing a vague shape of a humanoid figure (depending on race) being pulled and faded back into the target would give the feel of resurrection. Then having the cleric making motions as if they were actually trying to coax the life energy down from above.
That's my two cents.

Kumary

I like that we can heal and at the same time do some damage, even if it's damage over time. My only concern is the way I see the skills load/channel and also they seem static (unable to move). I may be wrong, but it's what I took from it.

In regards to my concern about the loading/channeling of the skills to complete and comparing them with just the auto-attack from the spear (which is pretty quick) I hope it can balance out in a good way to heal in comparison to the faster-paced weapons....not sure I'm making any sense lol

daveywavey

Kumary wrote: »

In regards to my concern about the loading/channeling of the skills to complete and comparing them with just the auto-attack from the spear (which is pretty quick) I hope it can balance out in a good way to heal in comparison to the faster-paced weapons....not sure I'm making any sense lol

Sounds like you're worried that the damage from weapons will out-pace the healing that can be done? Players/NPCs will be using similar Cast-Time skills against you too, so hopefully they should counter each other nicely.

voidshadow

I hate spiders. I like killing spiders. I saw a spider getting attacked in this vid. I am happy

Kinky

Looking good super excited to play

bloodprophet

[*] I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like Castigation is meant to be the spammed ability for low level Clerics. If that's the case is the design subverting the traditional idea of a caster healer in the back to more of a frontline melee? There are many casted abilities shown, but again I'm thinking of the low level combat loop and what Clerics spam when all the other abilities are on cooldown or when players are flustered.

In one of the early videos they talked about this and making their version of cleric of of an up front in the mix of things play style. So maybe this is an early example of things to come.

bloodprophet

Personally I like what they have shown so far. Looks like it will bwea fun class to play.

Damokles

bloodprophet wrote: »

[*] I could be totally wrong about this, but it seems like Castigation is meant to be the spammed ability for low level Clerics. If that's the case is the design subverting the traditional idea of a caster healer in the back to more of a frontline melee? There are many casted abilities shown, but again I'm thinking of the low level combat loop and what Clerics spam when all the other abilities are on cooldown or when players are flustered.

In one of the early videos they talked about this and making their version of cleric of of an up front in the mix of things play style. So maybe this is an early example of things to come.

I dont think that you want to spam any abilities in Ashes. If you watch closely during the combat videos like the one were Steven etc fought against the Elite NPC bandit, you will notice that they were at 50% mana after 1min of combat.
I think that you want to use the whip only to keep up the buff tbh and use weaponskills as filler.

bloodprophet

Agreed.
I would like to see resource management be a thing again. Thinking ahead and planning how and when to use abilities would be nice. Is kind of a sad state the genre has devolved into when you can spam abilities with out a care and have the same out come and never get close to running out of whatever resource the class uses.

Dr_Agon

My first reaction is that the effects are too bright but I do like them; even the spear. I'm trying to imagine what combat might look like with multiple casters.

Damokles wrote: »

I dont think that you want to spam any abilities in Ashes. If you watch closely during the combat videos like the one were Steven etc...

That would make it a non-issue.

Ireri

For a low level healer, it seemed a little damage heavy honestly. If the point is to have folks group up, then healers should have difficulty soloing just like DPS classes and tanks. Healers will be desired in groups, but healers also need incentive to join groups. Don't let healers be able to solo easily if you want to focus on group content.

When it comes to abilities, if the healer has time to do damage in addition to healing then there aren't enough mobs in camp. If a full group should have a tank, add tank, support, healer and DPS, then have the healer focus on healing. There are literally at least 6 other folks doing damage in a full group. Let a support class be the one to combine DPS and off-heal. Make the healer class meaningful and necessary so folks don't zerg through everything with DPS only.

I agree with the statements about resource management. Please, please let there be thought involved in the class and not spam healing. There is nothing more boring as a healer than spamming heals with no thought given to resources. Make the players weigh their choices; the quicker the cast the higher the resource usage.
* Is there time for the slower, more powerful heal on the tank at the rate they are losing health?
* Is the tank good enough to keep all adds off the DPS so they don't squish while you cast a slower heal?
* Will the squishy DPS last long enough for a moderate heal or should we burn massive resources for a quick heal?
* How many folks are taking damage simultaneously? Is now the time for an AoE heal?
* Will you lose someone in the time it takes to cast the AoE heal?
* Is the tank high enough on health to survive any burst damage so we can top off the squishies?
* Is the add tank good enough at picking up strays that the DPS can survive being at less than full health?

Adding DPS abilities at higher levels when there is specialization makes more sense than at the lower levels. This the the healing class, not a DPS class. Let folks specialize later if their play is more focused on damage with some healing thrown in. There is one Primary healing class as opposed to 6 other Primary classes that do DPS; have healers focus on healing.

Damokles

ireri wrote: »

For a low level healer, it seemed a little damage heavy honestly. If the point is to have folks group up, then healers should have difficulty soloing just like DPS classes and tanks. Healers will be desired in groups, but healers also need incentive to join groups. Don't let healers be able to solo easily if you want to focus on group content.

When it comes to abilities, if the healer has time to do damage in addition to healing then there aren't enough mobs in camp. If a full group should have a tank, add tank, support, healer and DPS, then have the healer focus on healing. There are literally at least 6 other folks doing damage in a full group. Let a support class be the one to combine DPS and off-heal. Make the healer class meaningful and necessary so folks don't zerg through everything with DPS only.

I agree with the statements about resource management. Please, please let there be thought involved in the class and not spam healing. There is nothing more boring as a healer than spamming heals with no thought given to resources. Make the players weigh their choices; the quicker the cast the higher the resource usage.
* Is there time for the slower, more powerful heal on the tank at the rate they are losing health?
* Is the tank good enough to keep all adds off the DPS so they don't squish while you cast a slower heal?
* Will the squishy DPS last long enough for a moderate heal or should we burn massive resources for a quick heal?
* How many folks are taking damage simultaneously? Is now the time for an AoE heal?
* Will you lose someone in the time it takes to cast the AoE heal?
* Is the tank high enough on health to survive any burst damage so we can top off the squishies?
* Is the add tank good enough at picking up strays that the DPS can survive being at less than full health?

Adding DPS abilities at higher levels when there is specialization makes more sense than at the lower levels. This the the healing class, not a DPS class. Let folks specialize later if their play is more focused on damage with some healing thrown in. There is one Primary healing class as opposed to 6 other Primary classes that do DPS; have healers focus on healing.

We currently dont know any damage values for any of the cleric spells though. Remember, they most likely have on op game master equipment for these demonstration videos.

Ehrgeiz

apmax wrote: »

I know they aren't final, but the animations seem relatively over the top and I think it would be better if they were toned down a bit.
It's the fireball problem, jumping in the air and doing a whirlwind every time you cast a relatively common ability is way too silly in actual gameplay.
Especially with the time to kill being 30s to 1 minute, casting one of these over the top jumping animation skills more than once in a fight seems likely and is just conceptually very silly.

this.

That hovering is way over the top and gets annoying very fast. Simple animations for simple skills.

daveywavey

ireri wrote: »

* Is there time for the slower, more powerful heal on the tank at the rate they are losing health?
* Is the tank good enough to keep all adds off the DPS so they don't squish while you cast a slower heal?
* Will the squishy DPS last long enough for a moderate heal or should we burn massive resources for a quick heal?
* How many folks are taking damage simultaneously? Is now the time for an AoE heal?
* Will you lose someone in the time it takes to cast the AoE heal?
* Is the tank high enough on health to survive any burst damage so we can top off the squishies?
* Is the add tank good enough at picking up strays that the DPS can survive being at less than full health?

Ahhhhhh yeah. That's why we like playing the Healer. Excellent summary!

Only addition I'll make is:

* Everyone's health is looking ok, is it time to add to the group DPS?

Nagash

My poor undead are going to suffer because of this

Nagash

So when one of the spells says it does holy damage does that mean that that's flavour text or real holy damage?

bloodprophet

Real question is. Does holy damage do double or triple damage to the flesh impaired?

Keern

I would be interessted how much movement locking you are planning on having and whether abilities that might be movement locked at low level change with higher level becoming not locked any longer. On the same note id be interessted to know if this clas is supposed to be a immobile class or wether its going to get more movement focused abilties. Id love to hear more about what kind of combat you are planning on designing not just how it looks but how it is supposed to feel and work. Maybe i just have to be patient but I feel there hasnt been that much info yet despite being one if not the deciding factor of wether they will play this game for the long term.

Sathrago

Just to dip some context into the conversation, last night steven replied on discord that the inspiration for the spear ability draws from the pathfinder cleric, so if you guys wanna go check that out and look for more similarities go for it.

Clerics in dnd and pathfinder are generally melee oriented casters with life saving tools that require foresight and planning to keep other players alive without wasting your spell slots. From the currently teased abilities I could guess that most of your healing will be passively done via hots or attacking enemies rather than a wow cleric that sits in the back and spams heals 24/7.

Nagash

bloodprophet wrote: »

Real question is. Does holy damage do double or triple damage to the flesh impaired?

lets hope its -1

bloodprophet

The Mage Soul in Rift Chloromancer is much the same. Doing damage to heal the group with few direct heals. It is how ever still a cloth wearer and ranged. Will be a nice change to see one up front and kicking butt.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3dupwQHNyU

Lore Dynamic

I particularly enjoy the sound-effect that accompany the visuals. The sounds of impact are done nicely.

I hope that Intrepid continues to place emphasis on the sounds with all their skills. I would like to "feel" the power of magic not simply through the colors & light, but also the sounds. Like in anime when a ship or mech is firing a laser-canon. You can "feel" the reverberation and get a sense of the power and devastation behind that blast.

Additionally: The subtle rainbow colors in the Resurrection spell was a nice touch.

/thumbs up!