Glorious Alpha Two Testers!
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Alpha Two Realms are now unlocked for Phase II testing!
For our initial launch, testing will begin on Friday, December 20, 2024, at 10 AM Pacific and continue uninterrupted until Monday, January 6, 2025, at 10 AM Pacific. After January 6th, we’ll transition to a schedule of five-day-per-week access for the remainder of Phase II.
You can download the game launcher here and we encourage you to join us on our for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
No thanks. Same thing, different label.
So make it even more inconvenient for players who can't play/put hours in everyday?
I've had many lessons in marketing and business economics
Login rewards work short term in F2P games designed around a cash shop. These are often mobile games where you only need to login and play a few minutes at a time, but I know many MMOs use them too. They try to get people hooked on that little dopamine rush.
AOC isn't that kind of game. They get their subscription money whether or nor players log in every day or not. What matters is if the gameplay is good. That's it. Nothing else will matter long term in an MMORPG of this type. Daily login rewards will actually, IMO, be detrimental long term, for reasons many have already posted in this thread. It's a cheap, manipulative tactic that players see right through, and it changes the login process from a fun thing where players are excited to play the game (otherwise they wouldn't log in), into a chore where players feel they have to log in, even if they don't have the time or desire to play the game, or they will be punished by not getting the daily shiny. That's the psychological reality of daily login rewards, unless they are so worthless they are just an annoying waste of time and space.
Now, Steven has said he is deliberately using FOMO tactics in the cash shop, to help pay for expansions. He's using other words, but it boils down to using FOMO tactics:
Personally I absolutely hate this decision, because the studies on FOMO are pretty clear: It causes mental health issues in people, and I am absolutely convinced it is going to negatively affect AOC, because a majority of people dislike it.
Even worse is if Intrepid implements daily login rewards as a way to aggressively promote the ingame cash shop, as if AOC was a F2P mobile game. They would rightfully get a major backlash from their player base. Players pay a subscription to avoid that BS completely.
I know they aren't going to change this now, but man oh man do I wish they dropped the cash shop entirely and just upped the monthly fee if necessary. 20, 25, 30 bucks, whatever.
Edit: I like to back up claims with studies, so here's one: A threat to loyalty: Fear of missing out (FOMO) leads to reluctance to repeat current experiences.
Just make it so we can log in randomly and still get some pretty things every now and then, and whatever we get is a bonus!
Wow you just suggested every manipulative system that players hate!
No, we are aware login rewards are there to boost metrics, not reward us.
We are aware metrics are used to fill pocketbooks, not show actual game health.
We are aware RNG causes addictive tendencies that keep players coming back.
We hate login rewards and other "daily" nonsense because we don't see our fellow players like resources to be exploited for profit, and that's all those time-crunch, pressuring systems do, exploit human psychology for money.
You realize that the game needs to make money to run well and to pay the people they need to build and grow the game, right?
The game designers are clearly looking for ways to bring in that money without ruining game balance.
All marketing is “manipulation”. Every sale sign, every cgi ad video, every email, every subscription plan, every content creator program, every greeter at a storefront is “manipulative”. Just because you forgot to cancel your Netflix subscription doesn’t make Netflix evil because they charged you on auto renew.
I agree that the login rewards and rng boxes are toxic when they have an impact on actual game balance, but not all “FOMO” is the same. There is a huge “FOMO” difference between missing out on a economy breaking login reward equal to dozens of hours of in game high end farming, like in BDO and ESO, a limited time chance of getting your ultra-rare higher dps (distubingly) lolli waifu in Genshin Impact, and getting an item like hat with a feather in it, or a different looking saddle for your freaking Thundercat mount.
Not everyone needs to have “everything”. Having things that are rare and special, but don’t give you an actual advantage economically, or make you stronger in pve or pvp are a great way to create a feeling of recognition and appreciation for those who have put time and support into the game.
I mean I’m sorry, but if you weren’t at the concert, then you shouldn’t be complaining that you didn’t get a T-shirt, and shame on you for complaining about the people who are wearing them, or the band that sold them.
That’s why there’s a subscription, will be a cash shop on top, and currently they’re selling monthly cosmetic packages. Do you need someone to lift the rock you’ve been living under?
Yeah, we already have that in the form of monthly cosmetic packages right now. And I don’t think anyone in this thread is against exclusive “this month only!” Cosmetics being on the cash shop after release for example. But taking the “this month only” and making it “this month only, IF you log in every day, or every other day” is the problem.
Rude. Just because the company is planning on collecting a sub fee and selling cosmetics doesn’t mean they have “everything they need” financially to provide us with a great experience.
I’d like to remind you that it was the company itself that created this discussion, not me. Common sense should tell you that they probably had a reason to.
Maybe instead of personally attacking me for expressing an opinion different than yours in this discussion, you should do something constructive, like making a wiki page referencing every time one of the devs says something along the lines of “we’d like to do that, but aren’t sure we can afford it.”
Good games don’t struggle out of a lack of monetization. Even games with all the shitty gimmicks you think are “good ideas” aren’t struggling because of lack of funds or unethical monetization schemes. They struggle because CEOs and parent companies take too much money for their private vacations instead of investing into proper game improvements.
They made this discussion because there was a multiple page thread created by the playerbase which was pretty much unanimous in its dislike for login rewards, and because from out of that thread, somebody asked about it in the Q&A section of the previous stream. It wasn't directly from the company itself.
1- You take it as a personal attack that someone on the internet said you live under a rock? Lmao
2- they absolutely have/will have what they need or else they’re doing something very wrong.
3- you’re right, the company started the discussion but it was you who came on here acting like you’re defending all the practices that gamers hate, so it’s that which I’m taking issue with.
I don't like daily log-in rewards, generally. But, I'm not upset at the idea of cosmetic rewards in the future, as long as it's not tied in to game-time (For example: Logging in for at least an hour vs. just logging on.)
I don't mind the concept of "rested" experience, where you gain experience at an increased-rate if you are logged-out in an inn for a period of time: which is essentially a log-in reward/catch-up mechanic. But, there's an argument to be made against it, too.
However, since there are currently cosmetics for sale for real-world money, I don't understand why the need to have log-in rewards for any reason, unless it's an independent, in-game-only cosmetic shop. (i.e. - You wouldn't be able to purchase cash-item-shop rewards with the same tokens.) But even then, players might do the math and just point out the people who play the game too much.
If it's to "give back" to the players, then I guess it counts as a "log-in reward", even though it's not a "daily" log-in reward.
If it something that is implemented some leniency would be nice such as rather daily login rewards, weekly login rewards or other ideas suggested from others.
I didnt read through all the posts because I couldnt fathom why anyone would not like the system other than it being a "p2w" thing and that seems far-fetched.
I have played BDO since Headstart.
Most of the time the DLR are minimal and sometimes insulting, however there are special times when they are desired.
I also think its a good gauge for player attentiveness
I am uncertain if anyone has made this point yet but I think being able to tell someones level of activity, or guild averages could add to threat dynamics. Imagine a guild of 200 thinking a guild of 100 is easy prey only to notice an astonishing 99 percent average daily sign on vs there meager 45.
So go nuts, i like Stevens coin idea, but why not open up status indicators and badges based on last x days for guild fun.
You could do a system of where you work at it through your own pace and once the reward let's say 30 days log in is hit that reward for that character/account is done.
You could have a maximum of 90 days rewards, and then have a bonus 30-day rewards using the total number of logins system when new content is released (mid patches), You could then have a different set of rewards that could appear on new expansions.
You can also theme these based on real-life events such as Christmas for example or in-game events they can also not just be limited to 30 days you could have a 7-day build-up event or 14 days?
Or even 12 days of Christmas as the above example!
It should not feel like you are forced to login and people should be able to go on holiday without feeling like they will lose out.
You could add a certain amount of tasks that are linked to the mobile app to allow the person to count a day towards the login if they are not able to reach a computer on a specific day giving them multiple options and then they do not lose out.
The key to this is to make this a feel-good factor where that people appreciate that can promote in-game or real-life events as opposed to a chore that real-life players resent.
Maybe something like daily login rewards during specific holidays, for unique cosmetics? I think the reptetiviness definitely kills it for some games.
Though I can see why people have favourable opinions of login rewards in the first place.
Login rewards and daily quests are not necessary if the game is good. Sure I'll take the cosmetic if it comes, but I won't pay a sub for it.
Make it a 10 logins over 30 days so casuals are not left behind if you really want to. Hardcore players will still end up getting the rare in-game ones.
Daily quest becomes a chore because it hinders you everyday from doing what you wanted do in the first place. A weekly or monthly quest would be a more acceptable feature for me since I can decide on my own when I should do this particular task.
All in all, players tend to eventually dislike these things when it becomes a chore that hinders their enthusiasm on things that they want to do when logging in.
I would not like to see them be a 30 of 30 days logged in thing however. I think a grace period is a more friendly and less punishing type of plan like login 20 of 30 days and if a player misses a few days they can use the other 10 days as a catch up mechanic that way they can still garner the full reward and still feel like they have a life.
So in short I am for them, I am for any reward I can get as a player in the realm I call home lol
-Mr. Sam Walton