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Racial benefits

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Comments

  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited January 2021
    akabear wrote: »
    Ok, well continuing the side diversion.
    @Atama Does Atama have another meaning other than "Head"?

    Not as far as I know, my name IRL is Head hence my username. It was also my high school nickname from Japanese studies.
     
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  • akabearakabear Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    When I make a character I choose a character I find visually appealing and can fulfill the kind of playstyle I anticipate I would enjoy within the game and the choice is a careful balance between the two.

    I have played games where the visual style of a particular racial type was to me so disinteresting that although the playstyle of the racial classes associated appeared interesting/fun, I could just not see myself enjoying it.

    ESO - Khajiit, Aragonian, Orc never appealed
    Actually, ESO was grossly disappointing at first with the character customization, was just ordinary.

    So if classes were limited to particular race types, then I would almost definitely not test/try certain types.

  • WarthWarth Member, Alpha Two
    @Asgerr Racial Choices won't affect professions. That much has been confirmed.
  • TragnarTragnar Member
    edited January 2021
    I admit that I've been called a crazy person for rerolling the same class just with better racial where once on one server I ended up with 3 characters of the same class, just because I wanted better racial. The first one had no racial for performance and I chose it purely for the looks and said to myself "I don't care about power from racials" - then I got raid geared and got pretty pissed, because the other racial helps me go an extra mile just because the racial was on use ability that increased your attack power. The third character I created was just because I found that it scaled better with better gear than the previous one.

    I tried several times to not care about little things in my builds and in my performances, but every time I get to a point where it just bugs me to no end and the whole joy from enjoying my character is gone.

    This is not about being the best, but about giving my best so I can be proud of my character and be able to say: "I've done my best to make this character the best that it can be"
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
  • ArkethosArkethos Member, Alpha Two
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Arkethos wrote: »
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?

    Elves: -50 Social Interactions
    Humans: -25 to everything
    Dwarves: -200 Jump Distance
    Orcs: -25 Intelligence
    Tulnar: -3000 Intelligence, -3000 Social Interactions, -2000 to everything else
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • ArkethosArkethos Member, Alpha Two
    edited January 2021
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Arkethos wrote: »
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?

    Elves: -50 Social Interactions
    Humans: -25 to everything
    Dwarves: -200 Jump Distance
    Orcs: -25 Intelligence
    Tulnar: -3000 Intelligence, -3000 Social Interactions, -2000 to everything else

    More along the lines of:

    Berserker: Increases damage dealt by 20% and attack speed by 10% for X seconds. Also increases damage received by 30% while active.

    Stone Skin: Reduces all incoming damage by 75% for 5 seconds. Reduces movement speed by 75% while active.

    Passive Trait: Underdark Vision - Can see in total darkness, however vision is highly susceptible to blinding spell effects.
  • Those are kinda PvP downsides only
    “Ignorance, the root and stem of all evil.”

    ― Plato
  • Tragnar wrote: »
    Those are kinda PvP downsides only

    To be fair, the only way I can think of something not being viable in PvE is when it unnecessarely reduces your DPS or if it can kill you. Am I missing something ?
  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Arkethos wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Arkethos wrote: »
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?

    Elves: -50 Social Interactions
    Humans: -25 to everything
    Dwarves: -200 Jump Distance
    Orcs: -25 Intelligence
    Tulnar: -3000 Intelligence, -3000 Social Interactions, -2000 to everything else

    More along the lines of:

    Berserker: Increases damage dealt by 20% and attack speed by 10% for X seconds. Also increases damage received by 30% while active.

    Stone Skin: Reduces all incoming damage by 75% for 5 seconds. Reduces movement speed by 75% while active.

    Passive Trait: Underdark Vision - Can see in total darkness, however vision is highly susceptible to blinding spell effects.

    I prefer mine......
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • PlagueMonkPlagueMonk Member
    edited January 2021
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Arkethos wrote: »
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Arkethos wrote: »
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?

    Elves: -50 Social Interactions
    Humans: -25 to everything
    Dwarves: -200 Jump Distance
    Orcs: -25 Intelligence
    Tulnar: -3000 Intelligence, -3000 Social Interactions, -2000 to everything else

    More along the lines of:

    Berserker: Increases damage dealt by 20% and attack speed by 10% for X seconds. Also increases damage received by 30% while active.

    Stone Skin: Reduces all incoming damage by 75% for 5 seconds. Reduces movement speed by 75% while active.

    Passive Trait: Underdark Vision - Can see in total darkness, however vision is highly susceptible to blinding spell effects.

    I prefer mine......

    little known fact, the programmed counter only goes to -1000. After that the numbers roll over into the positive, so thanks for the HUGE BUFF! /flex

    and you can have it your way. We will just put you on your own server with your own special rules and you can dominate it all alone (Nagash might prefer that?!)

    @daveywavey why DO you hate the Tulnar so much? The race hasn't even been revealed yet so why all this latent hostility? Do you not like races that tend to live in the dark/underground? Hate anthropomorphic animal races? what?I Inquiring minds wanna know.
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    PlagueMonk wrote: »
    @daveywavey why DO you hate the Tulnar so much? The race hasn't even been revealed yet so why all this latent hostility? Do you not like races that tend to live in the dark/underground? Hate anthropomorphic animal races? what?I Inquiring minds wanna know.

    *shrugs*
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Arkethos wrote: »
    Are the thoughts around racial bonuses mainly buffs? Is anyone considering negative racial attributes?

    Also, is there a preference towards passive stats vs active abilities, or a combination of the two?

    Elves: -50 Social Interactions
    Humans: -25 to everything
    Dwarves: -200 Jump Distance
    Orcs: -25 Intelligence
    Tulnar: -3000 Intelligence, -3000 Social Interactions, -2000 to everything else

    You DO need the handicap to compete with Tulnar thats right.... Should be fairer for you if we had these debuffs.
  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    @PlagueMonk He is just jelly how we are the better rodent in my opinion.
    Looks like a major inferiority complex to me.
  • Damokles wrote: »
    @PlagueMonk He is just jelly how we are the better rodent in my opinion.
    Looks like a major inferiority complex to me.

    You are most likely right. I was trying to be the *ahem* bigger rodent and extend an olive branch of sorts to which I get back a /shrug? So be it! Let the overt hostilities re-commence!

    Show no mercy to the weaker pirate rodent >:)
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  • The ongoing belief that everything must be equalized between races and classes is what ruined Elder Scrolls Online for me. It got to the point that it did not really matter what race or class you took, they could all tank, they could all heal, they could all buff, they could all crowd control. Racial bonuses allow races to be special rather than humans with extra bits - and I think it should and must stay this way otherwise everything is just a cosmetic and what race and class you play really doesn't matter.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    I do not like class/race locks though. If you make the contrasts too extensive then you make cookie cutters and free agency can be harmed. It is nice to have a complimentary race and class but must we make a situation in which some races are stronger in min/max than others?

    Edit: I appreciate the Racial Augments. It will add Racial Flavour without making class/race conjunctions based on raw stats.
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  • Sum12hateSum12hate Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    Wait.. since tulnar have been on vera this entire time do you think they will get magic buffs? I mean they are the only ones who had access to magic
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    I would expect Tulnar to have magic resistance rather than buffs to magic. In terms of evolution and the like. I don't agree with such racial traits though. I dislike the WoW approach to racial traits.
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  • DamoklesDamokles Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    I do not like class/race locks though. If you make the contrasts too extensive then you make cookie cutters and free agency can be harmed. It is nice to have a complimentary race and class but must we make a situation in which some races are stronger in min/max than others?

    Edit: I appreciate the Racial Augments. It will add Racial Flavour without making class/race conjunctions based on raw stats.

    What do you mean with race/class locks? That you wont be able to change your race/class mid game or that you cant choose specific class/race combos?

    Because i dont know ANY game where a midgame race change makes sense (especially a RPG), while race/class combo locks are not a thing thankfully. I could though see certain races play different playstile of the same class.
    A elf fighter could go into dex and magic, which would lend itself to a fighter/mage, while a orc fighter could be a better fit for a strength constitution build fighter/tank.

    Dont forget: races seed starting stats.
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    No mate, I meant where only some races can be some classes (Age of Conan). Though Age of Conan didn't have racial traits beyond which class a race can play. I'm aware races seed starting stats (Ashes) which is why I have no clue what race I will be playing until A2, B1 or B2. I dislike Gender Locks and Racial Locks in any MMO. I do not mind base stats/stats being applied for races (SWG), it is when it becomes cookie cutter/restrictive I have a problem.

    I believe the racial augments will limit the restrictive nature/cookie cutter build mentalities though.
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  • You definitely should not be able to change your race at whim. The only reason you should be allowed to is if your race receives a huge nerf, destroying your character. But that won't happen, will it...?
  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    I don't want race changes or gender changes. When I mention locks it is where a Class can only be played on a stated Race, rather than on any race. The term is Race Lock.
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  • MennisMennis Member, Alpha Two
    Neurath wrote: »
    I don't want race changes or gender changes. When I mention locks it is where a Class can only be played on a stated Race, rather than on any race. The term is Race Lock.

    It's already stated that there are no gender or class locks for any race. So dont have to worry about that.

    I like the idea especially when it's done with the stats. I think it makes sense that a dwarf is gonna have higher strength so a fighter of that class gonna hit a little bit harder, while the elven one is gonna be swifter with attacks. Maybe also minor buffs as passives but nothing stronger.

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    Yeah man, I bought in because of no race and gender locks. I'm not sure how robust augments will be for each race though. There could be reduced cast time for Elves, but, I wonder how the rest of the races would be dealt with. It is difficult to balance such stark differences.

    I thought the base stats would be different but quite small in the parameters: i.e. +10 Strength, +10 Intelligence etc. I do not know the parameters and protocols to theory craft effectively in this theory. I'm not sure how else racial augments can work unless the racial augments only change the skill effects.

    I would suspect that attack speed would be inherent in the weapons passives. I hope attack speed is inherent in the weapon passives because the skills we've seen are rather slow and need to be sped up.

    Edit: Even +10 to strength etc can be overpowered if the max stat pool is 100 or less. It is difficult to state specific numbers but I think you get the general idea.
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  • AsgerrAsgerr Member, Alpha Two
    What I believe @Neurath meant is that if one particular race is clearly better at tanking or magic casting because of racial benefits; then you are pretty much locked into having to pick that race if you want to be able to perform at high level. And that sucks.

    Because I should be able to play an Empyrean Tank just as well as a Dunir Tank etc. Otherwise you end up with what is essentially a class/race lock, if the enemies in PVP are always going to be better than you, for having picked the minmax option.

    I think that perhaps racial benefits should affect different things like:
    - HP recovery outside of combat
    - EXP gained from crafting
    - Resource gathering speed in certain areas
    - Animal husbandry benefits

    etc
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  • daveywaveydaveywavey Member, Alpha Two
    Without different racial traits, we're all just the same with a different cosmetic skin. And, what's the point in that?

    However, as your Tank, you might want the added strength of the Ren'kai, the armour bonus of the Dunir, the dodge chance of the Py'rai, etc.

    Let's not all be cookie-cutters of the same build.
    This link may help you: https://ashesofcreation.wiki/


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  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It's a double edge sword. Because Cookie Cutters all end up the same Race/Class combinations. Min/Max requires specific Races to be matched with specific Classes if the Racials provide substantial combat boosts.

    The Vek are stated as having Naval Racial Traits at the moment, not sure if it will change. If the Racial Augments change skill effects then all races will be unique irrespective of Racial Attributes. We know Racial Attributes will provide base stats, we just do not know what base stats refer to.
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  • MennisMennis Member, Alpha Two
    edited February 2021
    daveywavey wrote: »
    Without different racial traits, we're all just the same with a different cosmetic skin. And, what's the point in that?

    However, as your Tank, you might want the added strength of the Ren'kai, the armour bonus of the Dunir, the dodge chance of the Py'rai, etc.

    Let's not all be cookie-cutters of the same build.

    Exactly, I dont want to see only specific classes, with specific races, this game goes for diversity. I hate meta builds in games, play what you want and enjoy it.

    Still you can be the best class at your race with that minor disadvantage you have from racial benefits, if you cannot look over that fact than yes go with the specific class. Saying this as much as we know about builds I dont think these benefits would kill your goal of being the best.

  • SongcallerSongcaller Member, Alpha One, Alpha Two, Early Alpha Two
    It makes no sense for all 9 Races to have stat attributes for each class. That would make 9 Race Attributes per class which is unheard of. The most racial attributes I've see have totalled 5 per race. 72 Racial attributes seem insane to me, which is what you will have if Races are pigeon holed into class roles. The races should synergise with multiple-builds if there are 64 Classes in total. The secondary class doesn't even add base stats. I believe the racial attributes will be Strength, Dexterity, Intelligence etc or not relate to combat at all. The reason for this suspicion is because you must seed 64 potential builds with only 9 races.

    I don't mind Negative Racial Attributes but I'd rather see positive racial attributes.
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