When I was Healing in TSW (The Secret World) there was Blood heals and it had a skill called Linked Veins where you could blast your Target with a linked Heal then there would be an AoE heal on that Target for Friendlies in a vicinity of the Target. They would get "incased" in a Red Bubble that would give a indicator who was being Healed.
I think the Devs should look into TSW's heal system as it was extremely satisfying.
An amazing game and such a great experience.
Sounds much akin to The Blood Mage in Vanguard. Loved The Blood Mage, siphoned health from enemies and distributed health to allies. Was my favourite healing class so far, Celestial from DC Universe Online is my second favourite healer so far.
Edit: Celestial would flip, jump, drop and rotate for heals. Loved the movement and the scope. Celestial was better at healing smaller groups though because of the 6 Person Shield. Would have been a beast if the shield could cover a whole raid in one. I did solo heal in Raids with Celestial though, just wasn't as smooth as group content.
I am assuming I can click on Party/Raid members and select them for certain heal skills?
Will we be able to also click on the individual who isnt in Party/Raid for the same selection?
Yes they'll have standard party frames where you can click on other players. They mentioned this in a recent livestream (I think December where they were doing the dual boss fight). So it'll be standard MMO stuff. In that livestream the function was apparently bugged and they couldn't click people, but they said it was a bug and would be fixed.
I was a healer in another game where we had a Defensive Target as well as an Offensive Target simultaneously.
Will this be a thing in AoC?
Asking for a friend. 😁
They haven't mentioned Defensive/Offensive targets and it's not common so I'm going to assume no. But most games do have a Focus Target feature built into the UI that you can use for a similar purpose.
Hover healing is when a heal is cast on who ever your curser is on in game.
It is worth noting that many heals (not all) will be targeted via action combat mechanics, not tab target mechanics. This means you may have to physically aim them, rather than selecting a character to target them on.
Well this is down to the player. We know Cleric and every other class will have a mix of tab targeted and action combat abilities, and they will be able to slot up to 75% of one type and 25% of another type on their bar. So if OP wants to have 75% of her abilities be tab targeted, she can certainly do that. I imagine the other 25% would be standard AoE heals, buffs, AoE dps, etc. so it could feel like a standard MMO if they wanted to play like that.
I've played games with the "hover" heal thing but still preferred the guarantee of being able to target them manually. Not trying to risk losing a party member because someone decided to dash in front of my mouse.
Only time I've really used that hover thing is when there is an AOE and to reduce time the AOE casts where your mouse is instead of you having to click the skill and then click the AOE placement again.
I completely agree. I've tried briefly hover/mouseover healing and it screwed me up. Not only for the reasons you mentioned but even just the idea of having to keep my mouse hovered over the group frames at all times with a mouse that now has other functions is odd. I tend to like to move my mouse away and do other things with it, even just mindless camera movement or whatever. I like having that free for normal movement but more so than that, as you said, it's nicer to have your target locked on and not worry about accidental switching or other weirdness, and I can be free to heal or do other things as needed. I've done the standard click target, then hotkey to heal thing for so long that it's far faster, accurate, and efficient for me than any other method.
As for your second comment, GW2 had an option in the settings menu for AoE dps/heals to be placed with one click instead of two. I can't imagine why a similar option couldn't be implemented here.
I REALLY hope we are allowed mouse over macro healing since we aren't going to have mods! I don't mind AOE healing to an extent but too much of it makes it really boring and makes zero sense to me. I want to use my reaction/aiming skill to either mouse-over or click a health bar rather than spam AOEs. My 2 cents..
I don't think they're going to have macros so I'm not sure they'll have mouseover healing. I'm not sure if there's a way they can build it into UI or settings menu? Either way, it's not hard to heal without it. More MMO's exist without that functionality than with it and people manage just fine.
I'm also interested to see how healing a 250 v 250 PVP battle is going to be. Is everyone in the same raid group? Am I going to have 250 health bars on my screen as a healer? Or will I have to have 500 nameplates for allies and enemies? Only time will tell I suppose.
I believe the default party size is 8, and it goes up to 40 for a Raid. I don't think we'll have the 250 health bars issue.
Here's the problem with that.... 40 does not go into 250 evenly. You will have 10 members who are not in a raid group. or are in their own raid group that is significantly smaller than the rest. Of course you could have 10 raid groups of 25, but that just seems wrong... I imagine a different system would be implemented than the standard 40 man raid groups for these large scale battles. Personally, I would want raid frames of people who are close enough to be healed and people who are just slightly too far to be healed. Now, maybe I'm thinking too much WoW and not enough ESO. If most of the heals are targeted then, it's probably moot and you just have ally nameplates up with health bars over them.
I doubt you'll have all 250 on your screen at the same time. Back when I played Aion and they had a system for joining multiple full raids of players together, it just amounted to a shared chat channel and a UI to view/manage the connected raids. But all you had on screen was your personal raid group to heal, nobody else. I imagine you'd see the same thing here - you see and heal your raid and other healers are assigned to other raids (and likely in other locations often doing other things anyway).
I remember in Tera, which was heavily focused on action combat:
- Some skills had you click on the target to heal
- Others had you click the ability and the you would hover over multiple targets, which highlighted them as locked on and then the spell was cast
Something like that could be useful, specially if the camera turns with the mouse like an fps. Cause then some party members may end up off screen, but still be targetable.
That was certainly a great game to heal with but I don't get the impression they're going to design heals like that, here for the action combat abilities. I get the impression it's more standard AoE type stuff - PbaoE, GtAoE, cone, TAoE, etc.
Healing in Tera was fun, it had a combination or tab targeted and aoe healing. I hope we are not stuck with mouse over healing, as I prefer action camera combat these days.
I'm sure there will be some kind of HoT mechanics in the game. I think it would be hard not to.
I hope we can keybind the following way for targets in a 40 man raid:
Plain F Numbers. (1-8)
Alt F Numbers (9-16)
Shift F Numbers (17-24)
Control F Numbers (25-32)
Tab F Numbers. (Razer Hypershift) ((33-40))
It would enable us to cover a 40 Man Raid for targeted Heals. I am aware not all heals will be targeted, but, it would be nice if we can cover a 40 Man Raid without having to mouse over.
It would enable us to cover a 40 Man Raid for targeted Heals.
While obviously every game is different, I have never set up a raid where I expect players to heal everyone in the raid.
That said, the game I spent most time playing, healers had buffs and debuffs to keep maintained, as well as cures to deal with. Healing was perhaps half of a healers role, and so they only ever had 5 other players to concern themselves with.
I guess if healers don't have anything to do other than heal, it makes sense that they need more people to heal in order to not be bored.
Basically, what I am saying is that if the game is designed in a way where healers have things to do other tha heal, there shouldn't be a need for healers to have a setup like this - on the other hand if all they do is heal, it would be needed.
In actual fact the method is best when a Healer must damage and heal. It means there is less downtime between damage and heals. It means you can throw a heal to anyone in range at any time between the damage abilities you are undertaking. It is far swift than mousing over to heal those in range, mouse over the target to deal damage, mouse over those who need healing. Basically, it enables free-flow of active abilities without the need for macros.
My request stems from a solo-healer experience but in Ashes you won't be solo healing most likely. I do love to compete for highest heals and also combat for damage (If we had a DPS Meter which we shouldn't have in Ashes). So, the request gives scope for smoothness rather than jagged dispositions.
Edit: The main issue is the fact that I adapted a 24 Man Raid Style into 40 Man Raid Parameters. It means the targets are obviously much larger in scope. It is nothing special to perform like I have stated in a 24 Man Raid. 5 Groups of 8 needed a larger pool of keybinds though.
I hope we can keybind the following way for targets in a 40 man raid:
Plain F Numbers. (1-8)
Alt F Numbers (9-16)
Shift F Numbers (17-24)
Control F Numbers (25-32)
Tab F Numbers. (Razer Hypershift) ((33-40))
It would enable us to cover a 40 Man Raid for targeted Heals. I am aware not all heals will be targeted, but, it would be nice if we can cover a 40 Man Raid without having to mouse over.
Why would you waste 40 keybinds when you can just use your mouse to click a target frame and only worry about keybinding your abilities? It's far faster, easier, and doesn't require 40 keybinds...
Healing in Tera was fun, it had a combination or tab targeted and aoe healing. I hope we are not stuck with mouse over healing, as I prefer action camera combat these days.
I'm sure there will be some kind of HoT mechanics in the game. I think it would be hard not to.
I wouldn't call any of their heals tab targeted. They had lock on heals, but you still aimed at the players to target them, and then hit the ability again to lock onto the target. Lock-on and tab targeting are still very different mechanically.
The point is, instead of panning around to find the person in question, I can simply check they are in range and then target the person. The purpose is to state what I would prefer, and, I would prefer such the style. In actual fact, the binds in question would all be feasible because we have only 10 active abilities in the Hot Bar. It is quite funny that we have open threads requesting a similar disposition for the combat moves but mine is cast aside because it is for support.
If we ran the two systems side-by-side you would see the speed that can be gleaned by keybinds rather than mouse over macros or mouse clicks. The Cleric uses a Heal over Time targeted heal, the faster it can be applied the sooner the heal would be active.
My preferred style is aoe heals anyway, where you don't have to leave the combat target to heal at all. The problem is the basic tools mean we will have to leave the combat target to heal.
The point is, instead of panning around to find the person in question, I can simply check they are in range and then target the person. The purpose is to state what I would prefer, and, I would prefer such the style. In actual fact, the binds in question would all be feasible because we have only 10 active abilities in the Hot Bar. It is quite funny that we have open threads requesting a similar disposition for the combat moves but mine is cast aside because it is for support.
If we ran the two systems side-by-side you would see the speed that can be gleaned by keybinds rather than mouse over macros or mouse clicks. The Cleric uses a Heal over Time targeted heal, the faster it can be applied the sooner the heal would be active.
My preferred style is aoe heals anyway, where you don't have to leave the combat target to heal at all. The problem is the basic tools mean we will have to leave the combat target to heal.
Edit: Spelling mistakes.
I think they've said you can have up to 30 abilities, and multiple hotbars, but it's up to you to decide which ones and how many to spec into. I think the current UI is just placeholder. But my point is it's much easier to just click on nameplates in the raid window in the UI. You don't need to use mouseover targeting or keybinds. It's just a lot easier.
I'm sure you'll be able to keybind whatever you want, though. I believe in a lot of games you can go pretty far with keybinding. I just wouldn't recommend it.
Edit: There are plenty of ways around having to leave the combat target to heal (besides mouseover healing) - focus target, target of target, etc. As a healer it's not really a huge concern unless you're doing a lot of dpsing anyway and those tools allow you to quickly switch back to the combat target when needed.
30 Abilities would be a nice boon. That's a good amount to have but I'd still keybind them 1-10, shift 1-10 and alt 1-10.
It could be my learning disabilities, but, if I am using my mouse to target heal then I can be killed because I'm too busy watching the targets than watching the enemy abilities. I will bow out of Cleric and just run Bard. I believe Bard will have AoE Heals rather than single-target heals. It will be easier for me to play how I want than having to be forced to play the way I struggle with.
Wouldn't a "40 man" raid have more than one healer?
I prefer being able to click on their nametag in party/raid window, I have never bound my keys to player slots or used them.
I also prefer being able to click on their actual character to select them.
Healing PvP is as much my interest as PvE. Being able to select someone not in your party is essential imo.
A game I healed in before also had a TAB-action selector. I could face in the direction of my heal target and hit TAB and they would be selected and then I could hit TAB and cycle through available targets, alternating from selected target to next closest target then next farthest back to first selected. at least thats how it seemed.
This may be the action heals that is spoken of here, but I want to know for sure my target will receive the heals by way of an indicator that they ARE selected.
I have never healed in an action type target system where it comes down to 'cursor to cursor' or should I say 'X to X' type of targeting.
This may be why i seem confused! lol.
Wouldn't a "40 man" raid have more than one healer?
I prefer being able to click on their nametag in party/raid window, I have never bound my keys to player slots or used them.
I also prefer being able to click on their actual character to select them.
Healing PvP is as much my interest as PvE. Being able to select someone not in your party is essential imo.
A game I healed in before also had a TAB-action selector. I could face in the direction of my heal target and hit TAB and they would be selected and then I could hit TAB and cycle through available targets, alternating from selected target to next closest target then next farthest back to first selected. at least thats how it seemed.
This may be the action heals that is spoken of here, but I want to know for sure my target will receive the heals by way of an indicator that they ARE selected.
I have never healed in an action type target system where it comes down to 'cursor to cursor' or should I say 'X to X' type of targeting.
This may be why i seem confused! lol.
This game will have two types of targeting systems - traditional tab target and action, which has a cursor. You can switch between these whenever you want. It's basically just a UI and controls setting. So you can play in whichever mode you find easier to target with.
You can also choose a mix of tab and action based abilities as well to use and spec into, so you can choose the ones you feel most comfortable with there as well.
But my point is it's much easier to just click on nameplates in the raid window in the UI. You don't need to use mouseover targeting or keybinds. It's just a lot easier.
It's much quicker to use the shortcut keybinds. Health-bar of Player 3 in the party drops, you hit [F3], Heal, and your mouse is already still on the enemy to target them again. There's no downtime waiting for mouse movement and the possibility of missing the nameplate while you move, and you engage the enemy again more quickly. Every second counts in high-end raiding.
If my requested key bind additions are granted, I can play Cleric. I'm used to high end raiding and solo healing and I would like to continue my Healer Parameters in Ashes of Creation, but if the options aren't there then I would get frustrated and would then stick with Bard. I'm not sure at what stage I will know about the key bind potentials so I will check in A2, B1 and B2 to make sure my choice isn't one made out of ignorance.
Edit: I understand Tab is a strange addition but it is the better placed option for a fifth group. I can move the 'tab target key bind' to a more obscure location and bind it to my mouse.
I'm more interested in seeing how aoe healing gets handled in Ashes.
I guess I'll comment on some of my experience with aoe heals as priest in wow & scholar in ff14.
- "Auto" target aoe heal (N lowest health targets, e.g. circle of healing)
This kind of heal is the easiest to use, but at the same time the most boring (and tends to get abused). I'd like to see this kind of spells being tied to a high mana cost or a non-trivial cooldown.
- Self centered / target centered aoe heals
IMO this should be the main form of aoe heals. It's powerful, but requires some effort in positioning (by both the party/raid members & the healers) and not brainless (boring) like auto-target heals.
- Party/group aoe heals (e.g. prayer of healing)
I didn't like this kind of heals very much. IMO it depends too much on group assignment and was rarely useful in pug raids. Back in wow, in raid finder, ppl usually still positioned properly as a raid, but the group members were often scattered all over the place. And because of that they rarely required heals at the same time, and were rarely within range of an aoe heal at the same time. Whenever I cast prayer of healing, usually at least half of the output of that spell goes to waste.
From the basic skills we know players will have to stack on the AoE Pulse of Hallowed Ground, we can also chain heal up to 3 targets through Benediction. I don't believe there will be Auto Heals beyond Hallowed Ground which also damages foes. Hallowed Ground will probably be running whenever it can be cast and Benediction (3 targets max) and Devotion (Single target) will be the second and third layers of backup.
I personally don't want heals to only affect a singular group. I believe Raid Wide heals are the better choice. I would even state, heals should be broader than Raid Wide too, in PvP you might have a mix of 2 raids at a choke point and all will need heals. Hallowed Ground would perform for the 2 raids and of course, targeted heals have no raid boundaries either.
It's much quicker to use the shortcut keybinds. Health-bar of Player 3 in the party drops, you hit [F3], Heal, and your mouse is already still on the enemy to target them again. There's no downtime waiting for mouse movement and the possibility of missing the nameplate while you move, and you engage the enemy again more quickly. Every second counts in high-end raiding.
I personally do not have F# keys (compact keyboard), so wouldn't the keybinds for targeting party members be an advantage?
But seriously, I have never tried to use keybinds to target players (like F3), maybe I need to do that when ashes is released. But I feel like I will just end up clicking the UI instead xD
I know it seems ridiculous but short cut from key binds have saved so many more lives than tracking the mouse to frames and back to boss, back to frames, back to boss etc.
It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.
You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.
The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.
I know it seems ridiculous but short cut from key binds have saved so many more lives than tracking the mouse to frames and back to boss, back to frames, back to boss etc.
It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.
You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.
The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.
I do know that keybinds are the way to go when healing, but I like to have all my keybinds close to my wasd position. For me the longest distance I'm comfortable with is the 3 or 4 key.
And if ashes have a boss frame then I can just focus on targeting my party/raid members and still see the boss frame.
"Speeding" healing comes down to how fast you can click yours spells while still being able to move and having an eye on the overall battle. For me the F# keys won't be effective, but I can 100% understand that some people want and need it.
Yes, you speak the truth. We all have different setups. I never click my skills with a mouse. The nominal setup would be based around shift, alt and ctrl + your number of skills divided by 3. So you wouldn't stretch to reach any of them.
The F Numbers are often f1 to f6, alt f1 to f3 and f5 to f7, ctrl f1 to f6 and then shift f1 to f6. But obviously 24 Binds are little use to a 40 man raid. It is true I don't have to stretch for the f numbers either due to my setup, however, setups are built to the way one would play. It is natural for me to play my way just as it is natural for you to play your way.
It is simple when there is One Foe targeted and the rest are allies to heal. It can also be simple if there are multiple targets and multiple allies to heal. I'm more of a PvP Healer but I do also raid. Prior to PvP Armour the best PvP Armour was Raid Armour. I'm pleased Ashes won't have PvP Armour but I digress.
The activation of my request would not limit your way of playing but a denial of my request would limit the way I play. It is normal to have key binds for allies though I just wanted to highlight the request and make the request known.
Yes, you speak the truth. We all have different setups. I never click my skills with a mouse. The nominal setup would be based around shift, alt and ctrl + your number of skills divided by 3. So you wouldn't stretch to reach any of them.
The F Numbers are often f1 to f6, alt f1 to f3 and f5 to f7, ctrl f1 to f6 and then shift f1 to f6. But obviously 24 Binds are little use to a 40 man raid. It is true I don't have to stretch for the f numbers either due to my setup, however, setups are built to the way one would play. It is natural for me to play my way just as it is natural for you to play your way.
It is simple when there is One Foe targeted and the rest are allies to heal. It can also be simple if there are multiple targets and multiple allies to heal. I'm more of a PvP Healer but I do also raid. Prior to PvP Armour the best PvP Armour was Raid Armour. I'm pleased Ashes won't have PvP Armour but I digress.
The activation of my request would not limit your way of playing but a denial of my request would limit the way I play. It is normal to have key binds for allies though I just wanted to highlight the request and make the request known.
To me it sounds reasonable. If we can target party members with keybinds, we also should be able to target 40man raids. We don't know much about the settings or the UI of ashes, so we will just have to wait and see what they will end up doing.
Yeah, all's well and all's good. I appreciate the chance to discuss the situation and the potentials. The Dev team are experienced and I will obviously play the game either way lol.
Yeah, all's well and all's good. I appreciate the chance to discuss the situation and the potentials. The Dev team are experienced and I will obviously play the game either way lol.
I can't help to feel all warm and fluffy inside after having a nice and civil discussion on a forum on the internet.
I know it seems ridiculous but short cut from key binds have saved so many more lives than tracking the mouse to frames and back to boss, back to frames, back to boss etc.
It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.
You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.
The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.
We must have played different games because I've played all the major tab target MMO's and high end healers always use the mouse to target players via the raid frames, either directly via clicking on the nameplate in the raidframe, or via mouseover macros hovering over the nameplate in the raid frames. Then keybinds are reserved for their skills and abilities. Also nobody uses their mouse to re-target the boss. Either they use tab, or click on the target of target frame, or they have the boss focus targeted, etc. The mouse usually stays near the raid frames or somewhere near the middle of the screen.
I don't think allowing people to keybind all or even any of the target frames in raid frames is even a standard feature in most games - in standard groups sure, although few people use it. I don't see any harm in them adding the feature here, but I wouldn't expect it unless you got the attention of someone at Intrepid to make the request.
Comments
I think the Devs should look into TSW's heal system as it was extremely satisfying.
An amazing game and such a great experience.
Edit: Celestial would flip, jump, drop and rotate for heals. Loved the movement and the scope. Celestial was better at healing smaller groups though because of the 6 Person Shield. Would have been a beast if the shield could cover a whole raid in one. I did solo heal in Raids with Celestial though, just wasn't as smooth as group content.
Yes they'll have standard party frames where you can click on other players. They mentioned this in a recent livestream (I think December where they were doing the dual boss fight). So it'll be standard MMO stuff. In that livestream the function was apparently bugged and they couldn't click people, but they said it was a bug and would be fixed.
They haven't mentioned Defensive/Offensive targets and it's not common so I'm going to assume no. But most games do have a Focus Target feature built into the UI that you can use for a similar purpose.
Well this is down to the player. We know Cleric and every other class will have a mix of tab targeted and action combat abilities, and they will be able to slot up to 75% of one type and 25% of another type on their bar. So if OP wants to have 75% of her abilities be tab targeted, she can certainly do that. I imagine the other 25% would be standard AoE heals, buffs, AoE dps, etc. so it could feel like a standard MMO if they wanted to play like that.
I completely agree. I've tried briefly hover/mouseover healing and it screwed me up. Not only for the reasons you mentioned but even just the idea of having to keep my mouse hovered over the group frames at all times with a mouse that now has other functions is odd. I tend to like to move my mouse away and do other things with it, even just mindless camera movement or whatever. I like having that free for normal movement but more so than that, as you said, it's nicer to have your target locked on and not worry about accidental switching or other weirdness, and I can be free to heal or do other things as needed. I've done the standard click target, then hotkey to heal thing for so long that it's far faster, accurate, and efficient for me than any other method.
As for your second comment, GW2 had an option in the settings menu for AoE dps/heals to be placed with one click instead of two. I can't imagine why a similar option couldn't be implemented here.
I don't think they're going to have macros so I'm not sure they'll have mouseover healing. I'm not sure if there's a way they can build it into UI or settings menu? Either way, it's not hard to heal without it. More MMO's exist without that functionality than with it and people manage just fine.
I doubt you'll have all 250 on your screen at the same time. Back when I played Aion and they had a system for joining multiple full raids of players together, it just amounted to a shared chat channel and a UI to view/manage the connected raids. But all you had on screen was your personal raid group to heal, nobody else. I imagine you'd see the same thing here - you see and heal your raid and other healers are assigned to other raids (and likely in other locations often doing other things anyway).
That was certainly a great game to heal with but I don't get the impression they're going to design heals like that, here for the action combat abilities. I get the impression it's more standard AoE type stuff - PbaoE, GtAoE, cone, TAoE, etc.
Recent cleric skill included an AoE HoT
Here are the levels 1-10 skills for a Cleric - https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Cleric
I'm sure there will be some kind of HoT mechanics in the game. I think it would be hard not to.
Plain F Numbers. (1-8)
Alt F Numbers (9-16)
Shift F Numbers (17-24)
Control F Numbers (25-32)
Tab F Numbers. (Razer Hypershift) ((33-40))
It would enable us to cover a 40 Man Raid for targeted Heals. I am aware not all heals will be targeted, but, it would be nice if we can cover a 40 Man Raid without having to mouse over.
While obviously every game is different, I have never set up a raid where I expect players to heal everyone in the raid.
That said, the game I spent most time playing, healers had buffs and debuffs to keep maintained, as well as cures to deal with. Healing was perhaps half of a healers role, and so they only ever had 5 other players to concern themselves with.
I guess if healers don't have anything to do other than heal, it makes sense that they need more people to heal in order to not be bored.
Basically, what I am saying is that if the game is designed in a way where healers have things to do other tha heal, there shouldn't be a need for healers to have a setup like this - on the other hand if all they do is heal, it would be needed.
My request stems from a solo-healer experience but in Ashes you won't be solo healing most likely. I do love to compete for highest heals and also combat for damage (If we had a DPS Meter which we shouldn't have in Ashes). So, the request gives scope for smoothness rather than jagged dispositions.
Edit: The main issue is the fact that I adapted a 24 Man Raid Style into 40 Man Raid Parameters. It means the targets are obviously much larger in scope. It is nothing special to perform like I have stated in a 24 Man Raid. 5 Groups of 8 needed a larger pool of keybinds though.
Why would you waste 40 keybinds when you can just use your mouse to click a target frame and only worry about keybinding your abilities? It's far faster, easier, and doesn't require 40 keybinds...
I wouldn't call any of their heals tab targeted. They had lock on heals, but you still aimed at the players to target them, and then hit the ability again to lock onto the target. Lock-on and tab targeting are still very different mechanically.
If we ran the two systems side-by-side you would see the speed that can be gleaned by keybinds rather than mouse over macros or mouse clicks. The Cleric uses a Heal over Time targeted heal, the faster it can be applied the sooner the heal would be active.
My preferred style is aoe heals anyway, where you don't have to leave the combat target to heal at all. The problem is the basic tools mean we will have to leave the combat target to heal.
Edit: Spelling mistakes.
I think they've said you can have up to 30 abilities, and multiple hotbars, but it's up to you to decide which ones and how many to spec into. I think the current UI is just placeholder. But my point is it's much easier to just click on nameplates in the raid window in the UI. You don't need to use mouseover targeting or keybinds. It's just a lot easier.
I'm sure you'll be able to keybind whatever you want, though. I believe in a lot of games you can go pretty far with keybinding. I just wouldn't recommend it.
Edit: There are plenty of ways around having to leave the combat target to heal (besides mouseover healing) - focus target, target of target, etc. As a healer it's not really a huge concern unless you're doing a lot of dpsing anyway and those tools allow you to quickly switch back to the combat target when needed.
It could be my learning disabilities, but, if I am using my mouse to target heal then I can be killed because I'm too busy watching the targets than watching the enemy abilities. I will bow out of Cleric and just run Bard. I believe Bard will have AoE Heals rather than single-target heals. It will be easier for me to play how I want than having to be forced to play the way I struggle with.
I prefer being able to click on their nametag in party/raid window, I have never bound my keys to player slots or used them.
I also prefer being able to click on their actual character to select them.
Healing PvP is as much my interest as PvE. Being able to select someone not in your party is essential imo.
A game I healed in before also had a TAB-action selector.
I could face in the direction of my heal target and hit TAB and they would be selected and then I could hit TAB and cycle through available targets, alternating from selected target to next closest target then next farthest back to first selected. at least thats how it seemed.
This may be the action heals that is spoken of here, but I want to know for sure my target will receive the heals by way of an indicator that they ARE selected.
I have never healed in an action type target system where it comes down to 'cursor to cursor' or should I say 'X to X' type of targeting.
This may be why i seem confused! lol.
This game will have two types of targeting systems - traditional tab target and action, which has a cursor. You can switch between these whenever you want. It's basically just a UI and controls setting. So you can play in whichever mode you find easier to target with.
You can also choose a mix of tab and action based abilities as well to use and spec into, so you can choose the ones you feel most comfortable with there as well.
Steven previews the hybrid combat and the above two systems here -
It's much quicker to use the shortcut keybinds. Health-bar of Player 3 in the party drops, you hit [F3], Heal, and your mouse is already still on the enemy to target them again. There's no downtime waiting for mouse movement and the possibility of missing the nameplate while you move, and you engage the enemy again more quickly. Every second counts in high-end raiding.
Edit: I understand Tab is a strange addition but it is the better placed option for a fifth group. I can move the 'tab target key bind' to a more obscure location and bind it to my mouse.
I guess I'll comment on some of my experience with aoe heals as priest in wow & scholar in ff14.
- "Auto" target aoe heal (N lowest health targets, e.g. circle of healing)
This kind of heal is the easiest to use, but at the same time the most boring (and tends to get abused). I'd like to see this kind of spells being tied to a high mana cost or a non-trivial cooldown.
- Self centered / target centered aoe heals
IMO this should be the main form of aoe heals. It's powerful, but requires some effort in positioning (by both the party/raid members & the healers) and not brainless (boring) like auto-target heals.
- Party/group aoe heals (e.g. prayer of healing)
I didn't like this kind of heals very much. IMO it depends too much on group assignment and was rarely useful in pug raids. Back in wow, in raid finder, ppl usually still positioned properly as a raid, but the group members were often scattered all over the place. And because of that they rarely required heals at the same time, and were rarely within range of an aoe heal at the same time. Whenever I cast prayer of healing, usually at least half of the output of that spell goes to waste.
I personally don't want heals to only affect a singular group. I believe Raid Wide heals are the better choice. I would even state, heals should be broader than Raid Wide too, in PvP you might have a mix of 2 raids at a choke point and all will need heals. Hallowed Ground would perform for the 2 raids and of course, targeted heals have no raid boundaries either.
I personally do not have F# keys (compact keyboard), so wouldn't the keybinds for targeting party members be an advantage?
But seriously, I have never tried to use keybinds to target players (like F3), maybe I need to do that when ashes is released. But I feel like I will just end up clicking the UI instead xD
It is difficult to explain the nature of the beast but key binds are literally where High End Healers reside for the most part. You should try it one time and you will understand the request. Speed healing really is speed healing with key binds.
You can use key binds to heal and key binds to target foes. You can then reserve the mouse for movement. People are adamant Macros won't be allowed and Macros aren't required, just the full suite of potential key binds will provide so much extra head room for the hardest tier of PvE and in PvP too.
The only issue is the fact the raids are 40 Person and not 24 Person or I wouldn't have felt the need to add my request to cover all 40 People because 24 are often accounted for in key bind potentials.
I do know that keybinds are the way to go when healing, but I like to have all my keybinds close to my wasd position. For me the longest distance I'm comfortable with is the 3 or 4 key.
And if ashes have a boss frame then I can just focus on targeting my party/raid members and still see the boss frame.
"Speeding" healing comes down to how fast you can click yours spells while still being able to move and having an eye on the overall battle. For me the F# keys won't be effective, but I can 100% understand that some people want and need it.
The F Numbers are often f1 to f6, alt f1 to f3 and f5 to f7, ctrl f1 to f6 and then shift f1 to f6. But obviously 24 Binds are little use to a 40 man raid. It is true I don't have to stretch for the f numbers either due to my setup, however, setups are built to the way one would play. It is natural for me to play my way just as it is natural for you to play your way.
It is simple when there is One Foe targeted and the rest are allies to heal. It can also be simple if there are multiple targets and multiple allies to heal. I'm more of a PvP Healer but I do also raid. Prior to PvP Armour the best PvP Armour was Raid Armour. I'm pleased Ashes won't have PvP Armour but I digress.
The activation of my request would not limit your way of playing but a denial of my request would limit the way I play. It is normal to have key binds for allies though I just wanted to highlight the request and make the request known.
To me it sounds reasonable. If we can target party members with keybinds, we also should be able to target 40man raids. We don't know much about the settings or the UI of ashes, so we will just have to wait and see what they will end up doing.
I can't help to feel all warm and fluffy inside after having a nice and civil discussion on a forum on the internet.
We must have played different games because I've played all the major tab target MMO's and high end healers always use the mouse to target players via the raid frames, either directly via clicking on the nameplate in the raidframe, or via mouseover macros hovering over the nameplate in the raid frames. Then keybinds are reserved for their skills and abilities. Also nobody uses their mouse to re-target the boss. Either they use tab, or click on the target of target frame, or they have the boss focus targeted, etc. The mouse usually stays near the raid frames or somewhere near the middle of the screen.
I don't think allowing people to keybind all or even any of the target frames in raid frames is even a standard feature in most games - in standard groups sure, although few people use it. I don't see any harm in them adding the feature here, but I wouldn't expect it unless you got the attention of someone at Intrepid to make the request.