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Phase I of Alpha Two testing will occur on weekends. Each weekend is scheduled to start on Fridays at 10 AM PT and end on Sundays at 10 PM PT. Find out more here.
Check out Alpha Two Announcements here to see the latest Alpha Two news and update notes.
Our quickest Alpha Two updates are in Discord. Testers with Alpha Two access can chat in Alpha Two channels by connecting your Discord and Intrepid accounts here.
Comments
Possible sub Classes: Tank/Brood Warden, Rogue/Shadowmancer, Cleric/Necromancer or Bard/Enchanter
Race: Dünir or Py'Rai
I hope the summoner will be like the summoner in FFXI, from all MMORPG's in the past, it was the best example how a Summoner should be like. I am very excited how Sub Classes will change the original Summoner
Most of the classes on the Summoner line sound interesting to me, but I feel like most games fall short of the fantasy. In most games (specifically MMO's) the summon is usually just a turret for extra damage, contributing very little other than the damage.
The ideal Summoner, for me, is one that has a library of Summons. Not just one for each role. If you're still doing elemental strengths and weaknesses, leaning into that a bit more can help with that feeling of having a library of summons. It would be nice if the Summoner could take advantage of the number of casting mechanics like the other caster classes from other games, except adapted for Summoners. Like for instance;
-Familiars that are purely support or utility (or a Dancing Lights spells :P) that don't have a max duration (like usually seen in most MMO's).
-Summons with a cast time that explode out in an AOE when they're summoned and “rampage” for a duration until they die or their duration ends, and leave in a similarly explosive way.
-Summons that are near instant to cast, but only do one attack, generally short ranged, and are mana inefficient in terms of raw 'per second' numbers. Maybe give them charges so that they can be used multiple times in a row, but the cooldown increases the longer the combo, up to a max.
-Summons that have a soft duration or soft caps, where they constantly and slowly consume MP while they're out (like Final Fantasy 11, but unlike FF11, they don't rely on a half hour and a 2 hour cooldown to do anything useful), or Summons that reduce the Summoners max MP by a percentage while they're out (Dragon Age “Spell Stance” mechanic).
-Or Summons that work like buffs, where they follow or “haunt” a character and act independently while following that character, whether that's just improving that character or adding addition attacks while stuck to that character (Persona, or mechanically, I guess Zenyatta's orbs from Overwatch. Except they do more than one thing. Guess you can also throw in Jojo's for the reference. :P).
And with the different mechanics, it can help create a feeling of diversity between all the Summoner + Misc archetype combos by having each one specializing in a different mechanic. For example:
-The Summoner + Bard (Enchanter) can focus on the familiars and “haunts” where the familiars have more general buffs as auras, and the “haunts” are for more surgical, impactful buffs with shorter durations.
-The Summoner + Mage (Spellmancer) can focus more on the AOE/duration/rampaging mechanic, where if the Spellmancer casts one summon, then another in an overlapping “territory,” then it creates a third combined new spell effect.
-And the Summoner + Fighter (Wild Blade) can focus on the instant cast/combo summons. With the augments, in addition to whatever you have planned, decreasing the mana cost and cooldowns of these spells to make the more viable as reliable, efficient spells for constant use.
I know some of these suggestions are just aesthetics, but it's really annoying when there's a class that's advertised as being a “Summoner” class that takes advantage of versatility and numbers, but the number advantage is just +0.25, and the versatility is between a tank strictly for the PVE grind, and damage.
Speaking of aesthetics, it would be nice if some of the summons were larger than the character. I'm not expecting towering summons (unless YOU are fine with it XD), but maybe something like 1.25x - 1.5x the average playable characters' size. Maybe 2x, depending on testing.
Guess I'll end the post around here. I also think the entire Rogue line looks appealing. Specifically the Rogue + Mage (Nightspell), as well as the Acolyte (Mage + Cleric) in the mage line, but I've already gushed over the Summoner line quite a bit. :P I ended up focusing on the Summoner line because, in my experience, it's the earliest and most stagnated archetype, especially in MMO's. Most other developers seems to just immediately default to “It's a DOT class with a summon to tank and damage. But the tank summon is near useless except when leveling, and the damage summon barely contributes any damage for balance reasons, since it WILL die early from boss/pvp AOE's. But it 'summons,' therefore, it's a Summoner.”
Aside from the various games noted throughout, I think the primary source of 'Summoner expectations' was an old Gamecube game called “Lost Kingdoms.” It hasn't aged well, but damn, did it provide that summoner fantasy. It still does in my opinion.
Any of the offensive mixes of figther, tank and rogue with control, mobility and skills rewarding good timing and positioning.
Tanks
Mobility that allows me to dictate the pace of the agression and flow of the battle: Being able to take the initiative, charge forward, aoe fear, charge back to help my back-line against a rogue, single target cc, charge to the middle of the fray again.
Slash, shield slam and spread cc until everything around me dies while self-healing and causing caos between the enemy.
Key elements
1) Two gap-closers or mobility skills: Charge/ Heavy charge/Leap for initiating and re-positioning.
2) Aoe fear for zone control/enemy disrupt
3) Single target cc for enemy control/disrupt
4) Self-heal and defensive steroid for the "I can survive 10 men attacking me while spreading fear and slashing right and left" moment.
5) Spell reflect because timing skills is hot
I prefer heavy cavalry over heavy infantry gameplay.
Specialized abilities for Dual classes, Like if you play a "Rogue Cleric" have at least one specific spell/ability that only that combination can have, lots of room for creativity in this realm. I think this would be really cool to have and bring a very very awesome dynamic to choosing your classes. But, if you double class into the same thing ie: "Mage / Mage" still get a class spell that is only unlocked through the dual class commitment.
Thanks for giving me the opportunity to post, this idea is my biggest hope for the game.
For that reason I think Shadowblade/Predator are looking like the two classes I'm initially most interested in.
Back in the old EQ days I use to absolutely love being a Ranger on the PVP servers, using my track to find & slaughter our next victims w/ guildies.
I love summoning the undead and life draining people,
Risk vs reward is something I only recently encountered in MMO but I love it alot.
I love the spell reflect idea. I haven't ever played with that kind of skill before but it sounds badass.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
I think it reward awareness and good timing.
I remember once being a warrior and fighting against 2 rogues, and a warlock who I knew from battle grounds that was impressively geared started casting a damn powerful spell (soul fire) at me almost at point blank and I was "Oh shit oh shit oh shit"
As soon as I got out of the stun and I saw that huge fire ball of doom coming at me I hit spell reflect and the spell bounced back to him and he got hit for like 3/4 of his maximum hp (Boink!) and dropped dead.
It was hilarious.
Agreed. It seems really cool. Orginaly I was thinking of going rogue or ranger but if tanks get some cool skills like this I might end up going tank.
That is not dead which can eternal lie. And with strange aeons even death may die.
Here's hoping that you guys are working on something wonderful for nature-lovers to play, whether they are Py'Rai or otherwise! Always here to chat or brainstorm
I was an enchanter in EQ1. I had mesmerize, stun, mana regen buff, and illusions. Outside of combat, everyone wanted my buff and many wanted my illusions to make them more money. In combat, a good enchanter was god-like for combat control. Between mesmerize, stun, and charm, I controlled what mob could move or fight.
Games have move away from that type of control. Now it's just single target or AoE. Control takes the form of offtank or overwhelming dps. Players focus less on mechanics and more on their rotations. People still react to boss mechanics, but rarely give a second thought to trash mobs. Part of that is on the dev side. Just my rant
It would be cool to see something like that from the bard/x class. Give trash mobs something like a -10% stacking stat debuff and the need for more control would come back to the game :P
Oh that would be cool, something like a pied-piper leading trash mobs away when they spawn (perhaps off a cliff and drown them in a river)
To sum it up. My ideal class is the ability to play whichever class I choose and have viability end game. That's hard to do with 12 classes. I am curious to see how this irons out to 64.
For Scion I'm hoping for lots of wonderful magical modifications i can choose from to control the field my own way from a safe cozy distance.
Like Altering the flaming arrow we've seen to an ice arrow. Freezing on direct hit and leaving behind a slowing mist, or making arrows teleport to target after loosing them.
Ideally I would play Cleric primary, and play around with all of the secondary archetypes. But Cleric might be really terrible on their own. And secondary archetypes might be too tedious to switch.
So I might be forced to play something like Ranger/Cleric, just so I can be flexible in the open world, and kinda-sorta-not-really play a healer in a group.
Real answer/according to the spirit of the question:
I really hope it's more than just "Heal an ally, while stealing health from an enemy" over and over, ad nauseam.
Summoner is a unique class and every mmo I have played does it differently. It also seems like because summoner is so unique it is also the last to get development for over more traditional classes. Given that, to make the summoner more interesting I have some ideas. Some are more crazy than others and some you are already doing.
*Multiple Summons: I like the idea of this because why should a Master Summoner be limited to one summon. Would be a good idea if these worked together somehow. Like depending on which ones you had out could create different attacks. Like water elemental and lighting summon create some kind of special attack together that only they can do.
**Summons that can equip gear: Not sure how this would work in an mmo but would be really cool as the summoner has to also gear up his summons. This increases the fun of playing a summoner and have more interaction with the summons
***Summoners can summon other things besides creatures: items (equipable), food, utility items etc. What if the Summoner could summon a special Fire Axe for the Warrior. Or a special Lightning staff for the Mage. I know this would have huge implications for an mmo but there should be something you can do for this. Maybe just add fire damage and flame effect. Not as cool but easier to implement. Maybe these items are equippable by the summon itself. That may be even cooler.
***Food for the party. consumables
****Want some cool augment effects for the summons.
*****Always like the idea of Elementals being able to be summoned, water, fire, etc. Beings of pure energy. Something to distinguish a Conjurer (someone invested heavily into summoner) from other summoners. Something cool!!
******Fusion Summons: Conjurer has the ability to fuse certain summons together to create more powerful summons. Love this idea. Maybe only stay fused for a short duration.
Having a handful of these things would make for my ideal class. A true and true Summoner!
Difficult to say. Brood Warden sounds interesting by name. In my head you just summon a veritable swarm of insect-type creatures which don't do a lot of damage by themselves, but of course have power in numbers.
It all depends on the implementation. This question should have come later, once we know more about the classes. Because it sort of forces me to go for the safe choice of Rogue/thief the Ashes equivalent of which is yet to be determined I suppose.
You see the problem?
Now, if I can let me fantasy run loose.
Summoner. A lot of summons, which all have a resource upkeep generated by your own spells, which means it'll be ramp-up damage and pre-casting an army of minions would be hard, the secondary class affecting the type of minions summoned in regards to role, and of course the looks of said minions.
For the Rogue archetype. One based on set up, you can steal money/resources etc from npc's in city, and do thievery things. Because you as a base Rogue do not have a lot of combat potential, so you have to carry around a variety of tools, lockpicks, caltrops, cannisters of smoke/poison/elemental stuff, etc
My ideal Strider would be a character who can seamlessly swap between ranged and melee attacks, and set up cool combos doing so. For example: a crippling shot to the leg followed by a flurry of sword strikes. Or a similar scenario in reverse: a parry with your sword, leading into a backwards roll and finally a lethal salvo of arrows to the chest of your target.
A Falconer would have something like the murder of crows ability in WoW, plus a mix of skills like a fly-by talon rake or a disarm mechanic where your avian companion swoops in and attacks the main weapon hand of your opponent.
A Hawkeye would be a very sneaky, very powerful class that could do lots of crit damage from far away. I think they’d have some support abilities centered around reconnaissance, and would be very mobile but fragile.
The Beastmaster would have a ferocious friend to command, like Rexxar and Misha in WoW. I think ranged abilities would actually be sparse, so as not to risk accidentally shooting your animal companion. Skills would include pet commands that varied based on the type of pet you have (bear for tanking, cat for bleeds, wolf direct damage, etc.). Combos where your pet can CC the target while you follow up with ranged or melee strikes would be awesome. It would be really cool as well if, after you apply a bleed to a target, certain types of pets could track the target even if they stealth, for some amount of time.
I'm putting together a recap of your notes for our team now, but please feel free to keep sharing your thoughts!
My Ideal Class
Whenever I play a new game, I always ask my friend: "guess what class I picked?" The answer is always Mage. Although the Mage classes tend to be my go to first pick, they are not necessarily my favorite. The reason for this is normally due to the playstyle of the class depending on each games mechanics. The idea and concept of the mage is one of my favorite class choices, but most games tend to be quite boring when it comes to executing an exciting, fast paced playstyle.
What's attractive about the Mage class? Incinerating mobs with spells like Fireball, Firewall, Meteor Storm, Flamethrower etc... Freezing enemies in place with spells like Frost Nova, Frost Bolt, Blizzard, Cone of Cold. Shocking down crowds of minions with Chain Lightning, Lightning Nova's, Thunder Storm, and more. Short rang Blink/teleport spells to evade those persistent enough to come nose to nose with you. What's not to like?
As as most all RPG's in general, when playing a mage, you may have access to previously said skills. The problem lies with cast times. Common face-roll tactics while waiting on casting times to complete. 1:Fireball, 2:Fireball, 3: Frost nova for root, followed by blink. 4: Fireball. rinse and repeat. This rotation may be over simplified, but the point is the same. Long cast time first for the pull, followed by shorter cast as mob paths towards you. Once in melee range, Freeze target, blink, Cast longest possible cast time within safe parameters. Rinse repeat. This resulting playstyle gets old and boring very quickly. Being Stationary most of your time in combat makes me feel more like a magic turret, than a Mage slinging spells. The fact that you're stationary most of the time, and waiting on cast bar after cast bar just isn't very responsive.
How can the Mage playstyle be improved? Reducing or eliminating most cast times. I know at first this seems impossible, or counter productive to the point of the class. Why not be able to cast spells while moving? Most Archer Classes can shoot arrows on the move. Not every spell needs to be the Hail Mary uber one hit shit. Short cast times, being able to cast while moving, instant cast spells, are all ways to make the Mage more fast paced, and dynamic in combat. Anyone can stand in place while hitting 1 , 2, 3, 4 on their keypad, but that is not how a Battle-Mage should play. Cast times are ok, but on the bigger, more destructive spells, or channeled spells that are viable in PVE Dungeon/ Raid environments. But this type of stand and cast playstyle is clunky and predictable in PvP. Having a Mage in Constant motion, similar to other ranged classes, while throwing spells instead of arrows or bolts from a crossbow, would feel more fluid. A Mage should ALWAYS be on the move, as to avoid any incoming damage. Not just standing on the back line casting over your melee friends, hoping no one gets past your defensive line like the QB in football. (Even the QB has to shuffle and Jive to avoid blitz) But that is who the mage is. The guy in the back row, Barely ever moves, just there to throw the hail Mary. I feel this is an obsolete playstyle for a class that has so much potential limited only by his/her knowledge of the arcane. Thank you for your time.
This seems like the class that would gamble the most, so augments that roll a die on skills for various bonus effects (including effects that backfire) would suit Tricksters well - especially if there are "jackpot" effects that they can roll.
I imagine a warrior with a high expertise in wielding a spear (or glaive) for added distance between me and the enemy, clothed in leather armor for the added maneuverability in and out battle, and not only being good a dealing damage (although not the best) with small self heals, but also having added buffs that can add to damage (primarily), healing, or defense depending on the tool kit needed.
I find this to be the ideal class for me as I am someone who enjoys solo and group play. As a Bladedancer (Fighter/Bard) I can handle myself in most PvE situations without the need of others, but are also a valuable asset to a group for when the opportunity becomes available.
Thanks for taking the time to share your wild and crazy ideas with us like we requested, and we'll see ya for our next topic on hybrid combat! As always, please feel free to keep updating here in the meantime!
Also I would like to have a PvE Tank that tanks the Raid bosses but also is able to do key mechanic with its mobility skills
Reminds me of Freed Justine from Fairy Tail. He used his sword to carve runes with rules
My ideal would be a Summoner who goes deep into necromancy and is able to summon quantity or quality of a wide a range of creatures and undead.
Maybe also further down we get a mad alchemist? I love to look at some D&D spells when I see my necromancer. Everywhere is a price or drawback for the benefits it grants