When "someone else is able to create their character before you" is your biggest worry.. then I think the Devs are doing a great job of keeping P2W away!
I’m sorry but if you think people having access to character creation early is akin to pay to win, then you have CLEARLY never played an MMO with ACTUAL pay to win mechanics.
He likely has that perk already, and he's not complaining about the 'advantage' it gives him.
He's probably being a drama llama so he can set up chars for his multiboxing.
If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.
If you have an issue with this, then you will have an issue with this. If i remember correctly, there was talk of giving people early acces to the give. Nodes wouldn't be able to progress though. I might remember wrong though.
But will it really matter in the long run. Some people just have more time to play, so they will leave you in the dust
If you have an issue with this, then you will have an issue with this. If i remember correctly, there was talk of giving people early acces to the give. Nodes wouldn't be able to progress though. I might remember wrong though.
But will it really matter in the long run. Some people just have more time to play, so they will leave you in the dust
The headstart server is another issue, it used to be a problem, cuz even tho disabling nodes, people still had 2 days advantage they could cross the map and establish themselves within the region they wanted - that was p2w - steven realized that later, however, headstart was promised to backers that bought it.
Steven smashed this issue by saying there will only be 1/2 headstart servers per region launching earlier than others, so people can just pick any other server without headstart to play. Problem solved.
To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.
Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.
To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.
Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.
What are you talking about.... ? Again, someone with little to no knowledge of the project trying to make a point.
You are comparing something that is NECESSARY for the game, Alphas and Betas are part of the DEVELOPMENT they are 100% needed. And Intrepid is aware of the advantage it gives - that's why they are taking measures to avoid this, they will change all the nodes locations for the game launch, they will hide multiple questlines, and information that doesn't require testing.
Now tell me, what is early access character creator necessary for? If intrepid monetizes this they are making money on a convenience, with absolutely no reason or benefit for the game. What is it locking the CC behind a 75$ paywall good for? It goes 100% against their principles of no Pay-to... anything.
To be truthful, if Creating your character before the game releases is suppose to give you a heads starts... then what about all the experience and knowledge that people have gained by playing the Alphas and Betas before release? I think they have a much much higher advantage over just being able to "create" a character. I mean, alpha and beta testers actually "know" the game, the world, the best mechanics, and what will make for the best character creation.... where as the person just joining at release knows only what they have been able to gain from watching videos on the game.
Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.
What are you talking about.... ? Again, someone with little to no knowledge of the project trying to make a point.
You are comparing something that is NECESSARY for the game, Alphas and Betas are part of the DEVELOPMENT they are 100% needed. And Intrepid is aware of the advantage it gives - that's why they are taking measures to avoid this, they will change all the nodes locations for the game launch, they will hide multiple questlines, and information that doesn't require testing.
Now tell me, what is early access character creator necessary for? If intrepid monetizes this they are making money on a convenience, with absolutely no reason or benefit for the game. What is it locking the CC behind a 75$ paywall good for? It goes 100% against their principles of no Pay-to... anything.
Your argument is stupid. Next....
I am afraid you completely misread my post. The entire meaning of that post was in sarcasm of the OPs statement about Early Character Creation being p2w. Of COURSE Alpha and Beta testing is manadatory! That is exactly why I brought it up in order to show just how ridiculous it is to think early Character Creation is p2w.
Also, it is doubtful that they will change everything on release just to keep the testers from knowing things. That is wasteful in effort, not efficient, and impossible to completely negate an entire knowledge base. No matter how much they change, the testers will have an advantage. This however is NOT pay to win, it is simply a matter of benefit of being a tester, having to "pay" to test is something that just started in the past decade or so, but there have always been alpha and beta testers who have had this benefit compared to the people who only see the game at release. The payment part, it strictly for "supporting" the company and helping them get the game started..
Actually, I see that you are the one who actually made the opening comment, so I really didn't need to defend my statement at all.
Also, it is doubtful that they will change everything on release just to keep the testers from knowing things. That is wasteful in effort, not efficient, and impossible to completely negate an entire knowledge base. No matter how much they change, the testers will have an advantage. This however is NOT pay to win, it is simply a matter of benefit of being a tester, having to "pay" to test is something that just started in the past decade or so, but there have always been alpha and beta testers who have had this benefit compared to the people who only see the game at release. The payment part, it strictly for "supporting" the company and helping them get the game started..
If the company is making efforts to change, and remove info on the Alphas, because THEY BELIEVE it would be pay to win and unfair to give that advantage to backers - then IT IS. There's absolutely no argument you can make to say it's not since Intrepid KNOWS IT IS and they will spend resources on minimizing that advantage.
However as I said, it is necessary. If alphas and betas wasn't necessary, and Intrepid still had them and charged for it - that would be 100% Pay to Win thats a fact.
Putting a pay wall on ANYTHING ELSE related to game content, including early access to character creation is 100% NOT necessary. So it is wrong, it is Pay-to-something and should not be a thing.
I think you've mixed the issues up. I have already paid for my package. In my mind access to the character creation is a bonus or extension to my package.
Will access to the character creation early sell more packages? Possibly. Will people buy packages just to access the character creation? I doubt it.
You preach mostly to people who have a package already and try to tell them a potential perk (unseen perk) is immoral because of all those who havent backed the game. The argument stands on a knife edge because those people who havent backed have a reason why they havent backed. They miss out on so much stuff that a character creator is minimal in tow.
If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.
And if he doesn't do that, or if access is also given out to people that purchase subscriptions before the servers go live, will you come to this thread to say you were wrong?
Also, I am still waiting on you providing a screenshot of Steven saying the game would release in December 2020. It's an easy opportunity for you to prove yourself right - and prove me wrong (which is a rarity on these forums, no doubt a number of people would thank you for it).
I mean, it's easy to fond, according to you. You have no real reason not to post a screenshot if the comment, assuming the comment says what you claim it says.
The only real reason you have for not posting it is if it in fact says what I assume it says - in which case I understand you not wanting to post it, as it would prove that I understand it more without having even seen it than you understand with having read it first hand.
I guess I could just @ one of the regular posters here that also use Discord and ask them if they are able to find it, but I am really not one to assume others would want to spend time on a discussion that they are not directly involved in.
Imagine something like "Pay 20 bucks to skip the intro video when launching the game" or "Pay 30 bucks to auto log in so you can save 10 seconds" ( OMG thats so P2W) , this is just too funny to read, like if 2 hours or even 2 days will make a diference on a server that will last for moths or years. I know too much people that paid to play Albion online with 2 days ahead of time and did nothing with that, but also know people that started 3 weeks later and ended up with a top tier guild playing pvp on the black zone. And albion on lauch got a Gold/silver ratio of 1 to 1, two days later it was 300 to 1. If you start 2 days ahead but you are not a good player it does not matter, if you start 3 weeks latter and you are a good player IT DOES NOT MATTER, its a pvp game. Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
The only thing that will give you advantage on launch is knowledge.
...
Also, I am still waiting on you providing a screenshot of Steven saying the game would release in December 2020.
...
Although I think that this point was just a digression from the main discussion and would in no way disprove any of your other relevant points, I do remember having written the Ashes of Creation release date a year ahead of time on my calendar. I had only heard it as "before 2020" from youtube videos. This old post seems the most relevant and places "before 2020" in quotes. https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/35114/information-ashes-of-creation-release-dates
...
Also, I am still waiting on you providing a screenshot of Steven saying the game would release in December 2020.
...
Although I think that this point was just a digression from the main discussion and would in no way disprove any of your other relevant points, I do remember having written the Ashes of Creation release date a year ahead of time on my calendar. I had only heard it as "before 2020" from youtube videos. This old post seems the most relevant and places "before 2020" in quotes. https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/35114/information-ashes-of-creation-release-dates
Actually, what that is showing is the original target dates, it wasnt an official announcement of when the game would launch.
Such an announcement has not been made, as yet.
Also, it is the fact that people were taking their goals and interpreting them as actual release dates that made Intrepid stop talking about their goals at all.
When "someone else is able to create their character before you" is your biggest worry.. then I think the Devs are doing a great job of keeping P2W away!
I’m sorry but if you think people having access to character creation early is akin to pay to win, then you have CLEARLY never played an MMO with ACTUAL pay to win mechanics.
He likely has that perk already, and he's not complaining about the 'advantage' it gives him.
He's probably being a drama llama so he can set up chars for his multiboxing.
If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.
I’m having a good laugh right now at you thinking a feature you can two-click through is a pay for convenience issue
Imagine something like "Pay 20 bucks to skip the intro video when launching the game" or "Pay 30 bucks to auto log in so you can save 10 seconds" ( OMG thats so P2W) , this is just too funny to read, like if 2 hours or even 2 days will make a diference on a server that will last for moths or years. I know too much people that paid to play Albion online with 2 days ahead of time and did nothing with that, but also know people that started 3 weeks later and ended up with a top tier guild playing pvp on the black zone. And albion on lauch got a Gold/silver ratio of 1 to 1, two days later it was 300 to 1. If you start 2 days ahead but you are not a good player it does not matter, if you start 3 weeks latter and you are a good player IT DOES NOT MATTER, its a pvp game. Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
The only thing that will give you advantage on launch is knowledge.
The only real reason you have for not posting it is if it in fact says what I assume it says - in which case I understand you not wanting to post it, as it would prove that I understand it more without having even seen it than you understand with having read it first hand.
Bro, I can't be bothered to waste my time making a research just to prove you wrong... I honestly don't care, everyone that follows the project for a while remembers that... I'd need to go on the wiki or smt and spend time trying to find Steven's letter about this It's just a waste of time...
I'm just gonna post some screenshots of veteran members and content creators on the discord talking about this cuz it's a lot easier to find.
Imagine something like "Pay 20 bucks to skip the intro video when launching the game" or "Pay 30 bucks to auto log in so you can save 10 seconds" ( OMG thats so P2W) , this is just too funny to read, like if 2 hours or even 2 days will make a diference on a server that will last for moths or years. I know too much people that paid to play Albion online with 2 days ahead of time and did nothing with that, but also know people that started 3 weeks later and ended up with a top tier guild playing pvp on the black zone. And albion on lauch got a Gold/silver ratio of 1 to 1, two days later it was 300 to 1. If you start 2 days ahead but you are not a good player it does not matter, if you start 3 weeks latter and you are a good player IT DOES NOT MATTER, its a pvp game. Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
The only thing that will give you advantage on launch is knowledge.
You people's arguments are getting more stupid each day.... oh lord...
P2W is not defined by What you are selling...... it's not about the 10 seconds video skip for 10 bucks..... it's about the company charging you for that.... on your stupid example, all I would say is "Why the f do I need to pay to skip the damn video on a game that the creative director says he's ONLY charging for cosmetics and is against P2W?" You guys keep giving stupid examples yet that's not even the problem, the point is putting a f*** pay wall on shit that ain't necessary. Excuse my french.
Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
I don't play for fun. That's your vision that's your gameplay. And that's ok I'm not saying I hate on casuals, I still like you I'm still your friend, we just have fun in different ways. Ashes will have ranked arenas and seasons, competitive PvP battles, castle and node sieges and mechanics attracting hardcore players as well, I'm only happy if I and my guild is playing 16 hours a day to be in the Top. That's the fun for me. Getting my all my guild 1 hour earlier on launch day will make ALL the difference trust me, especially on a game that has node leveling mechanics based on XP, with limited housing, resources and a LONG way from point's of interest - and this is something only competitive players understand.
Imagine something like "Pay 20 bucks to skip the intro video when launching the game" or "Pay 30 bucks to auto log in so you can save 10 seconds" ( OMG thats so P2W) , this is just too funny to read, like if 2 hours or even 2 days will make a diference on a server that will last for moths or years. I know too much people that paid to play Albion online with 2 days ahead of time and did nothing with that, but also know people that started 3 weeks later and ended up with a top tier guild playing pvp on the black zone. And albion on lauch got a Gold/silver ratio of 1 to 1, two days later it was 300 to 1. If you start 2 days ahead but you are not a good player it does not matter, if you start 3 weeks latter and you are a good player IT DOES NOT MATTER, its a pvp game. Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
The only thing that will give you advantage on launch is knowledge.
You people's arguments are getting more stupid each day.... oh lord...
P2W is not defined by What you are selling...... it's not about the 10 seconds video skip for 10 bucks..... it's about the company charging you for that.... on your stupid example, all I would say is "Why the f do I need to pay to skip the damn video on a game that the creative director says he's ONLY charging for cosmetics and is against P2W?" You guys keep giving stupid examples yet that's not even the problem, the point is putting a f*** pay wall on shit that ain't necessary. Excuse my french.
Just play for fun, thinking that someone has advantage over you just for 2 hours and getting frustrated for that makes no sense.
I don't play for fun. That's your vision that's your gameplay. And that's ok I'm not saying I hate on casuals, I still like you I'm still your friend, we just have fun in different ways. Ashes will have ranked arenas and seasons, competitive PvP battles, castle and node sieges and mechanics attracting hardcore players as well, I'm only happy if I and my guild is playing 16 hours a day to be in the Top. That's the fun for me. Getting my all my guild 1 hour earlier on launch day will make ALL the difference trust me, especially on a game that has node leveling mechanics based on XP, with limited housing, resources and a LONG way from point's of interest - and this is something only competitive players understand.
If that's the only thing you care about, a CC released early wouldn't affect you or your 'hardcore' guild. People like you don't customize your characters, you'll just click create characters, spam next, and then hit enter world. Should we put a timer in so everyone can create characters and log into the server at the same time? That way people who don't care about what their toon looks like and people who do can all hold hands and start the game together.
I find your arguments equally as stupid as you think of everyone's response that doesn't agree with you.
Furthermore, anyone who's participating in the Alphas and Betas will likely have already created their ideal character. They'll know what options to choose, what sliders to adjust, and it won't make any meaningful impact to their character creation. The only people who wouldn't already have a character designed are people who haven't backed the game or pre-ordered. Or those that don't care what their character looks like.
I'm all for adding a Character Creator to play around with before launch, but at the same time that's already going to exist during all the testing leading up to the game.
"Almost dead yesterday, maybe dead tomorrow, but alive, GLORIOUSLY alive, today."
P2W, its literaly PAY TO WIN, and again "TO WIN", i cant see on anyway why a player will be "WINNING" over others only cause of that, if you are bad you will still be bad with that time ahead. I will consider it a pay to win if only the players that paid that can use certain nodes, only them and no one else, that would be pay to win. but even if they take a node first you can destroy them, or even go to that node and take it for yourself, do i need to remind you that science nodes majors are elected? you are looking this game like if you can have YOUR OWN node, and its not like that. you can get your own castle,and there are only 5. Do you want it? take it, you can if you are good enougth.
I don't play for fun. That's your vision that's your gameplay. And that's ok I'm not saying I hate on casuals, I still like you I'm still your friend, we just have fun in different ways. Ashes will have ranked arenas and seasons, competitive PvP battles, castle and node sieges and mechanics attracting hardcore players as well, I'm only happy if I and my guild is playing 16 hours a day to be in the Top. That's the fun for me. Getting my all my guild 1 hour earlier on launch day will make ALL the difference trust me, especially on a game that has node leveling mechanics based on XP, with limited housing, resources and a LONG way from point's of interest - and this is something only competitive players understand.
Just with that i can understand why you cry that much, you are just that kind of players who value time, and just time, and call it hardcore gaming, nha bro, hardcore gamning is when you play a game where you die and drop everything you got on you. You dont need 16 hours a day to be a hardcore gamer, you need skill, enougth skill to engage on a 1 v 3 and win. A harcore gamer is not scared of a guild taking a better spot, you are just making excuses to say that if someone is better than you , is just cause he has advantage.
Everything you say is just so ridiculus that i can only see this post as a huge joke. Talking with you is just a big waste of time since you have your own vision of the game and everything that differs from it is wrong for you. ¿So you wont have fun because your guild cant spend 16 hours a day playing and being the best guild on the server , only because other guild started 2 hours early and just for that they will win for sure if you play vs them? OK dude, if your way of thinking is like that, maybe better dont play an MMO once you get head to head to rusian top tier guilds you will notice there is allways someone better than you.
I will just say it once, and get out of this post cause is a waste of time. If the day of release you dont have the knowledge neded to engage on a guild well managed, with his dedicated gatherers, procesing and crafting players being at least 60% of your guild, and investing time on them to build the core of your guild, providing a sistem to gear up your guild members well, and engaging on politics to manage at least 1 node of each (science, military, economic, and religion) , you can forget on being one of the best guilds. and again a well managed guild is not scared of starting late, eventualy they will destroy everything arround them.
The only real reason you have for not posting it is if it in fact says what I assume it says - in which case I understand you not wanting to post it, as it would prove that I understand it more without having even seen it than you understand with having read it first hand.
Bro, I can't be bothered to waste my time making a research just to prove you wrong... I honestly don't care, everyone that follows the project for a while remembers that... I'd need to go on the wiki or smt and spend time trying to find Steven's letter about this It's just a waste of time...
I'm just gonna post some screenshots of veteran members and content creators on the discord talking about this cuz it's a lot easier to find.
So, you cant find Steven saying release was announced for 2020, just a bunch of people saying that it was the original idea he had, before he actually hired any staff. That is far from 2020 being a promised release date, which is what you said was the case.
That is either disingenuous or dishonest on your part. If you read the actual original comment, you would know that it was not a promise to have a release by 2020.
I mean, people also thought the release was planned for 2018, because that is when the kickstarter said delivery of packages would be by.
Getting my all my guild 1 hour earlier on launch day will make ALL the difference trust me, especially on a game that has node leveling mechanics based on XP, with limited housing, resources and a LONG way from point's of interest - and this is something only competitive players understand.
It won't make a difference because you will still get to the point where you and thousands of others are working towards leveling up nodes so that you can get some higher level content on which to then continue to level up on.
You need high level nodes in order to level up. In order to get high level nodes, actual thousands of people need to work on them. Because of this, that one hour does mean nothing, as you will still face the same leveling wall as everyone else.
This is something only people that know the games mechanics understand.
So, you cant find Steven saying release was announced for 2020, just a bunch of people saying that it was the original idea he had, before he actually hired any staff. That is far from 2020 being a promised release date, which is what you said was the case.
Alright, @Noaani you made me do it, I didn't want to bother but I've found out how to search for Steven's old messages on discord;
And now ill make you feel stupid by proving you wrong, you deserve it, take your time to humble yourself, research more about the game, stop talking shit, and then you come back and say sorry.
Alright, @Noaani you made me do it, I didn't want to bother but I've found out how to search for Steven's old messages on discord;
And now ill make you feel stupid by proving you wrong, you deserve it, take your time to humble yourself, research more about the game, stop talking shit, and then you come back and say sorry.
P2W, its literaly PAY TO WIN, and again "TO WIN", i cant see on anyway why a player will be "WINNING" over others only cause of that, if you are bad you will still be bad with that time ahead. I will consider it a pay to win if only the players that paid that can use certain nodes, only them and no one else, that would be pay to win. but even if they take a node first you can destroy them, or even go to that node and take it for yourself, do i need to remind you that science nodes majors are elected? you are looking this game like if you can have YOUR OWN node, and its not like that. you can get your own castle,and there are only 5. Do you want it? take it, you can if you are good enougth.
Just with that i can understand why you cry that much, you are just that kind of players who value time, and just time, and call it hardcore gaming, nha bro, hardcore gamning is when you play a game where you die and drop everything you got on you. You dont need 16 hours a day to be a hardcore gamer, you need skill, enougth skill to engage on a 1 v 3 and win. A harcore gamer is not scared of a guild taking a better spot, you are just making excuses to say that if someone is better than you , is just cause he has advantage.
Everything you say is just so ridiculus that i can only see this post as a huge joke. Talking with you is just a big waste of time since you have your own vision of the game and everything that differs from it is wrong for you. ¿So you wont have fun because your guild cant spend 16 hours a day playing and being the best guild on the server , only because other guild started 2 hours early and just for that they will win for sure if you play vs them? OK dude, if your way of thinking is like that, maybe better dont play an MMO once you get head to head to rusian top tier guilds you will notice there is allways someone better than you.
I will just say it once, and get out of this post cause is a waste of time. If the day of release you dont have the knowledge neded to engage on a guild well managed, with his dedicated gatherers, procesing and crafting players being at least 60% of your guild, and investing time on them to build the core of your guild, providing a sistem to gear up your guild members well, and engaging on politics to manage at least 1 node of each (science, military, economic, and religion) , you can forget on being one of the best guilds. and again a well managed guild is not scared of starting late, eventualy they will destroy everything arround them.
Bro, I like you, I have nothing against you, but I will literally ignore everything you said and ask you this:
In how many MMORPGs have you at least tried to be the Best player on your server or be Part of the Best guild on your server?
I think we both know the answer.... It's cool to talk about things when the game is offline, but lets have this conversation in 2 or 3 years
For now all we can do is give our feedback and wish for a good game, I'm doing my part, that's all.
Comments
If Steven does the right thing and addresses this, acknowledging that putting a 75$+ pay wall on character creator is indeed Pay-for-Convenience, goes against hes previous vision for the game, and won't be in the game - I will come back to this thread, just to have a good laugh.
But will it really matter in the long run. Some people just have more time to play, so they will leave you in the dust
The headstart server is another issue, it used to be a problem, cuz even tho disabling nodes, people still had 2 days advantage they could cross the map and establish themselves within the region they wanted - that was p2w - steven realized that later, however, headstart was promised to backers that bought it.
Steven smashed this issue by saying there will only be 1/2 headstart servers per region launching earlier than others, so people can just pick any other server without headstart to play. Problem solved.
Should AoC then not allow alpha and beta testers to play the game as soon as it releases? Are they being "p2w" because of that? The whole OP statement is just plain silly.
What are you talking about.... ? Again, someone with little to no knowledge of the project trying to make a point.
You are comparing something that is NECESSARY for the game, Alphas and Betas are part of the DEVELOPMENT they are 100% needed. And Intrepid is aware of the advantage it gives - that's why they are taking measures to avoid this, they will change all the nodes locations for the game launch, they will hide multiple questlines, and information that doesn't require testing.
Now tell me, what is early access character creator necessary for? If intrepid monetizes this they are making money on a convenience, with absolutely no reason or benefit for the game. What is it locking the CC behind a 75$ paywall good for? It goes 100% against their principles of no Pay-to... anything.
Your argument is stupid. Next....
I am afraid you completely misread my post. The entire meaning of that post was in sarcasm of the OPs statement about Early Character Creation being p2w. Of COURSE Alpha and Beta testing is manadatory! That is exactly why I brought it up in order to show just how ridiculous it is to think early Character Creation is p2w.
Also, it is doubtful that they will change everything on release just to keep the testers from knowing things. That is wasteful in effort, not efficient, and impossible to completely negate an entire knowledge base. No matter how much they change, the testers will have an advantage. This however is NOT pay to win, it is simply a matter of benefit of being a tester, having to "pay" to test is something that just started in the past decade or so, but there have always been alpha and beta testers who have had this benefit compared to the people who only see the game at release. The payment part, it strictly for "supporting" the company and helping them get the game started..
Actually, I see that you are the one who actually made the opening comment, so I really didn't need to defend my statement at all.
If the company is making efforts to change, and remove info on the Alphas, because THEY BELIEVE it would be pay to win and unfair to give that advantage to backers - then IT IS. There's absolutely no argument you can make to say it's not since Intrepid KNOWS IT IS and they will spend resources on minimizing that advantage.
However as I said, it is necessary. If alphas and betas wasn't necessary, and Intrepid still had them and charged for it - that would be 100% Pay to Win thats a fact.
Putting a pay wall on ANYTHING ELSE related to game content, including early access to character creation is 100% NOT necessary. So it is wrong, it is Pay-to-something and should not be a thing.
That's it.
Will access to the character creation early sell more packages? Possibly. Will people buy packages just to access the character creation? I doubt it.
You preach mostly to people who have a package already and try to tell them a potential perk (unseen perk) is immoral because of all those who havent backed the game. The argument stands on a knife edge because those people who havent backed have a reason why they havent backed. They miss out on so much stuff that a character creator is minimal in tow.
Also, I am still waiting on you providing a screenshot of Steven saying the game would release in December 2020. It's an easy opportunity for you to prove yourself right - and prove me wrong (which is a rarity on these forums, no doubt a number of people would thank you for it).
I mean, it's easy to fond, according to you. You have no real reason not to post a screenshot if the comment, assuming the comment says what you claim it says.
The only real reason you have for not posting it is if it in fact says what I assume it says - in which case I understand you not wanting to post it, as it would prove that I understand it more without having even seen it than you understand with having read it first hand.
I guess I could just @ one of the regular posters here that also use Discord and ask them if they are able to find it, but I am really not one to assume others would want to spend time on a discussion that they are not directly involved in.
The only thing that will give you advantage on launch is knowledge.
Although I think that this point was just a digression from the main discussion and would in no way disprove any of your other relevant points, I do remember having written the Ashes of Creation release date a year ahead of time on my calendar. I had only heard it as "before 2020" from youtube videos. This old post seems the most relevant and places "before 2020" in quotes.
https://forums.ashesofcreation.com/discussion/35114/information-ashes-of-creation-release-dates
While searching around for this, I found it interesting how the website 3 years ago provides more information than the current site.
https://web.archive.org/web/20180224083913/ashesofcreation.com/#null
Actually, what that is showing is the original target dates, it wasnt an official announcement of when the game would launch.
Such an announcement has not been made, as yet.
Also, it is the fact that people were taking their goals and interpreting them as actual release dates that made Intrepid stop talking about their goals at all.
I’m having a good laugh right now at you thinking a feature you can two-click through is a pay for convenience issue
100% this
Bro, I can't be bothered to waste my time making a research just to prove you wrong... I honestly don't care, everyone that follows the project for a while remembers that... I'd need to go on the wiki or smt and spend time trying to find Steven's letter about this It's just a waste of time...
I'm just gonna post some screenshots of veteran members and content creators on the discord talking about this cuz it's a lot easier to find.
You people's arguments are getting more stupid each day.... oh lord...
P2W is not defined by What you are selling...... it's not about the 10 seconds video skip for 10 bucks..... it's about the company charging you for that.... on your stupid example, all I would say is "Why the f do I need to pay to skip the damn video on a game that the creative director says he's ONLY charging for cosmetics and is against P2W?" You guys keep giving stupid examples yet that's not even the problem, the point is putting a f*** pay wall on shit that ain't necessary. Excuse my french.
I don't play for fun. That's your vision that's your gameplay. And that's ok I'm not saying I hate on casuals, I still like you I'm still your friend, we just have fun in different ways. Ashes will have ranked arenas and seasons, competitive PvP battles, castle and node sieges and mechanics attracting hardcore players as well, I'm only happy if I and my guild is playing 16 hours a day to be in the Top. That's the fun for me. Getting my all my guild 1 hour earlier on launch day will make ALL the difference trust me, especially on a game that has node leveling mechanics based on XP, with limited housing, resources and a LONG way from point's of interest - and this is something only competitive players understand.
If that's the only thing you care about, a CC released early wouldn't affect you or your 'hardcore' guild. People like you don't customize your characters, you'll just click create characters, spam next, and then hit enter world. Should we put a timer in so everyone can create characters and log into the server at the same time? That way people who don't care about what their toon looks like and people who do can all hold hands and start the game together.
I find your arguments equally as stupid as you think of everyone's response that doesn't agree with you.
Furthermore, anyone who's participating in the Alphas and Betas will likely have already created their ideal character. They'll know what options to choose, what sliders to adjust, and it won't make any meaningful impact to their character creation. The only people who wouldn't already have a character designed are people who haven't backed the game or pre-ordered. Or those that don't care what their character looks like.
I'm all for adding a Character Creator to play around with before launch, but at the same time that's already going to exist during all the testing leading up to the game.
Just with that i can understand why you cry that much, you are just that kind of players who value time, and just time, and call it hardcore gaming, nha bro, hardcore gamning is when you play a game where you die and drop everything you got on you. You dont need 16 hours a day to be a hardcore gamer, you need skill, enougth skill to engage on a 1 v 3 and win. A harcore gamer is not scared of a guild taking a better spot, you are just making excuses to say that if someone is better than you , is just cause he has advantage.
Everything you say is just so ridiculus that i can only see this post as a huge joke. Talking with you is just a big waste of time since you have your own vision of the game and everything that differs from it is wrong for you. ¿So you wont have fun because your guild cant spend 16 hours a day playing and being the best guild on the server , only because other guild started 2 hours early and just for that they will win for sure if you play vs them? OK dude, if your way of thinking is like that, maybe better dont play an MMO once you get head to head to rusian top tier guilds you will notice there is allways someone better than you.
I will just say it once, and get out of this post cause is a waste of time. If the day of release you dont have the knowledge neded to engage on a guild well managed, with his dedicated gatherers, procesing and crafting players being at least 60% of your guild, and investing time on them to build the core of your guild, providing a sistem to gear up your guild members well, and engaging on politics to manage at least 1 node of each (science, military, economic, and religion) , you can forget on being one of the best guilds. and again a well managed guild is not scared of starting late, eventualy they will destroy everything arround them.
So, you cant find Steven saying release was announced for 2020, just a bunch of people saying that it was the original idea he had, before he actually hired any staff. That is far from 2020 being a promised release date, which is what you said was the case.
That is either disingenuous or dishonest on your part. If you read the actual original comment, you would know that it was not a promise to have a release by 2020.
I mean, people also thought the release was planned for 2018, because that is when the kickstarter said delivery of packages would be by.
They were just as wrong as you are.
You need high level nodes in order to level up. In order to get high level nodes, actual thousands of people need to work on them. Because of this, that one hour does mean nothing, as you will still face the same leveling wall as everyone else.
This is something only people that know the games mechanics understand.
Alright, @Noaani you made me do it, I didn't want to bother but I've found out how to search for Steven's old messages on discord;
And now ill make you feel stupid by proving you wrong, you deserve it, take your time to humble yourself, research more about the game, stop talking shit, and then you come back and say sorry.
Enjoy;
the end
That brings back memories
how much you bet it was gigabear
Bro, I like you, I have nothing against you, but I will literally ignore everything you said and ask you this:
In how many MMORPGs have you at least tried to be the Best player on your server or be Part of the Best guild on your server?
I think we both know the answer.... It's cool to talk about things when the game is offline, but lets have this conversation in 2 or 3 years
For now all we can do is give our feedback and wish for a good game, I'm doing my part, that's all.