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Pay-wall on the CC in advance

LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
edited April 2022 in General Discussion
So Intrepid is considering releasing the character creator in advance only for people that pre-order the game... This gives a couple of hours headstart for people not having to worry about creating their characters at launch. I have a pre-order pack, this doesn't affect me, still I think this is messed up. Big step in the wrong direction. What happened to the "We don't need your money" ?
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Comments

  • Song_WardenSong_Warden Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    What would be the point in releasing it to people who haven't backed? Those people will take up virtual memory space but haven't paid for any virtual space. Those people might end up not buying in at all and no playing. Why risk the service for those who have yet to pay?

    Edit: Next it will be 'Why do people who have paid get to reserve their character names and not everyone else'.
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  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Intrepid never said they wouldn't sell perks to people. They've always done that since the Kickstarter. They said they won't sell you anything that will give you a mechanical advantage in the game.

    There was no "we need your money" pledge, I don't know what you are smoking, injecting, or imbibing but Intrepid has been trying to get people's money from the start. They're a business, that's their reason for existing. Did you think this was a philanthropic endeavor? :/

    Giving someone the ability to create a character ahead of time is not P2W. That's garbage. That's not quite as stupid as the suggestions that letting someone buy an outfit is P2W (and yes, we had someone very fervently making that argument) but it's not much better. How many weeks are you planning to spend doing character creation? Whatever "advantage" this would give is negligible.
     
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  • unknownsystemerrorunknownsystemerror Member, Phoenix Initiative, Royalty, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    They don't need your money. Plans for who has access to the character creator have not been finalized. The character creator template may end up being a locally saved file that you can upload once your account is active. There is no box cost for Ashes, and as they approach launch, there very well may be options to have to have the current game version downloaded and ready to go for launch. Headstart is a different issue. As is name reservation. If headstart runs into issues, there will be day before and day one patches anyways to the main client as needed. The idea with all this testing is to minimize that impact, unlike most mmos who do not do as much.
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  • Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.
  • JamationJamation Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I think they just meant one of the pre-purchase options that is available on the store currently
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I assume the OP meant pre-ordering a pack, not the game itself. And technically you are pre-ordering the game; you need a subscription to play, and the packs include game subscription time, so in a sense I suppose it's not inaccurate to say that you are pre-ordering the game itself.
     
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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I understood it as:
    purchase game before you can create a character

    The other option is to store the character creator data on client's local files and then import them serverside during actual character creation - then anyone can create a character, but only subscribers can actually play.

    This doesn't use any server resources, but the downside is that it could (?) put more pressure on the servers during launch since everyone will be bombarding the server with premade character datasets.
    Whereas a pre-launch character creator that sets up a character on the server before launch avoids this - but then you won't want non-subscribers to create characters on the server rent free.
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • Jamation wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I think they just meant one of the pre-purchase options that is available on the store currently
    Atama wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I assume the OP meant pre-ordering a pack, not the game itself. And technically you are pre-ordering the game; you need a subscription to play, and the packs include game subscription time, so in a sense I suppose it's not inaccurate to say that you are pre-ordering the game itself.

    Got it, thanks. So it has been confirmed that the character creator will only be available prior to release for those who bought one of the packs?
  • bigepeen wrote: »
    Jamation wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I think they just meant one of the pre-purchase options that is available on the store currently
    Atama wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I assume the OP meant pre-ordering a pack, not the game itself. And technically you are pre-ordering the game; you need a subscription to play, and the packs include game subscription time, so in a sense I suppose it's not inaccurate to say that you are pre-ordering the game itself.

    Got it, thanks. So it has been confirmed that the character creator will only be available prior to release for those who bought one of the packs?

    no
  • Warth wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Jamation wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I think they just meant one of the pre-purchase options that is available on the store currently
    Atama wrote: »
    bigepeen wrote: »
    Source?

    I thought there is no pre-order because there is no box cost, it's a subscription game.

    I assume the OP meant pre-ordering a pack, not the game itself. And technically you are pre-ordering the game; you need a subscription to play, and the packs include game subscription time, so in a sense I suppose it's not inaccurate to say that you are pre-ordering the game itself.

    Got it, thanks. So it has been confirmed that the character creator will only be available prior to release for those who bought one of the packs?

    no

    Thanks.

    /thread please
  • TalentsTalents Member, Intrepid Pack
    They'll probably just end up doing it so anyone who has a subscription before launch can create a character.
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I meant to say the pre-order pack, just wanted to leave my feedback on this matter. If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad. that's not a peark, that's giving advantage to people with pre-order packs that will be able to start earlier not having to worry about creating their characters. It doesn't matter that it's 1 hour advantage, or 2 hours, or 2 weeks, an advantage is an advantage.
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    Atama wrote: »
    There was no "we need your money" pledge, I don't know what you are smoking, injecting, or imbibing but Intrepid has been trying to get people's money from the start. They're a business, that's their reason for existing. Did you think this was a philanthropic endeavor? :/ .

    @Atama What a stupid argument. Steven said multiple times that it's not about the money, don't buy if your not 100% sold, the game is fully funded and so on..... even tho they keep pushing monthly cosmetics (that aren't even modeled and without a proper description of the individual cosmetic pieces) of an unfinished and delayed game and Now they say that they are considering limiting the character creator for pre-pack holder's only...... and That, sounds contradicting to me, and sends a negative image.

    If you think that's all ok and I'm on drugs, fine, keep insulting people and being a 12yo fanboy. who cares, I'll keep giving my feedback since I want this game to succeed :D
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    Neurath wrote: »
    What would be the point in releasing it to people who haven't backed? Those people will take up virtual memory space but haven't paid for any virtual space. Those people might end up not buying in at all and no playing. Why risk the service for those who have yet to pay?

    Edit: Next it will be 'Why do people who have paid get to reserve their character names and not everyone else'.

    .... maybe make people need to buy a subscription before they get access? why do we need to pay for an expensive pre-order pack? duh

    PS: I own an expensive pack already, and multiple skins. I'ts not like I'm worried about my pocket, I just think IF they make it for backers only, that's bad.
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  • WhitneyHagasMatsumotoWhitneyHagasMatsumoto Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    I'm still trying to grasp the point of this discussion ......🤔

    I think a simple way to understand the OP's argument is that he is saying "early access to games is a huge benefit".
    Of course, that claim is not completely wrong.
    But I just don't see the benefit in it that needs to be discussed.

    In the extreme case, if playing early is the best way to enjoy the game, then all new players after release are losers.

    In that sense, I don't think the problem is the structure of the game, only the complaints about the early play system.👀
  • KatakKatak Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    I imagine that the most time that even the most dedicated perfectionist would spend in a character creator is less than a few hours. How is this much of an advantage at all? There will likely be login server issues and such that extend longer than that.

    The base game is fully funded, but this additional income from cosmetic packs is supporting the rapid expansion of what will surely be a groundbreaking game, as well as helping us to get additional content faster.
  • HellfarHellfar Member
    edited February 2021
    I don't see anything pay 2 win about this topic. You guys complaining about a 1 hour "head start" can be compared to some guy waiting in line at Gamestop to pick up his MMO copy on launch night knowing he still has a 30 minute commute home, then needs to install the game prior to logging on, even though the servers are already live. It's really not that big of a deal.
  • bloodprophetbloodprophet Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    It was a non answer. I don't think they will as they had already mentioned character creator contests.
    Most people never listen. They are just waiting on you to quit making noise so they can.
  • How does creating my character before someone else give me any benefits? I'd probably spend a few hours creating a character anyway. And, there are those people that will literally select their name, click a default face they like and finalize their character. I'm just wondering if the character creation will be anywhere near as good as BDO's or AA's.
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Again, I never said it is Pay to Win. There's no argument being made about it being pay to win.

    I think you guys are missing the point of this thread.
    I only said it gives an Advantage to pack holders, and that is a fact.

    My point is, this is a STEP in the wrong direction for Intrepid, I do not think it's good for intrepid, a company that claims they will make things different, yet they are behind schedule, still didn't delivered us Alpha 1, to keep pushing cosmetics, pre-order packs in their website front page, and now starting to walk the line of monetizing convenience... having early access to character creation will save people's time, that sounds a bit more than a perk to me...
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  • I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance. But it doesn't grant you any real advantage, as I said, some players don't care about character creation at all and will spam the 'next' button, to get in-game as quickly as possible. And having backers get access to the character creator so they can tell Intrepid if it's bad prior to release is a good thing. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, stop it.
  • NoaaniNoaani Member, Intrepid Pack
    Liniker wrote: »
    maybe make people need to buy a subscription before they get access? why do we need to pay for an expensive pre-order pack? duh
    If you have paid for a subscription before the servers are released, you have pre-ordered.

    If you have not paid for a subscription at the point the servers are sent live, you have not pre-ordered.

    If you have not paid for a subscription when the servers are sent live, there is no point in you having access to the character creator, as you have no access to teh game.

    If you have launch day access to the game before launch day, then you have access to the character creator before launch day.

    They did not say it was only for people that have purchased the pre-order packs that we have now, there is absolutely no reason to assume they won't open up the ability to purchase subscription time several days before the game is released.

    I don't see what the issue is.

    If someone is that concerned about a few minutes worth of time in game, they won't be waiting until launch day to gain access. Since they would have sorted out at least their first months access before launch day, they would also have access to the character creator before launch day.

    This means the only people that won't have access to the character creator before launch day are people that don't care enough about launch day to have access to the game sorted before then.

    Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.
  • AtamaAtama Member, Braver of Worlds, Kickstarter, Alpha One
    Liniker wrote: »
    Again, I never said it is Pay to Win. There's no argument being made about it being pay to win.

    Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.
     
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    Atama wrote: »
    Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.

    Reeee
    Merek wrote: »
    I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance.

    @Merek bro.. my ashes inventory is probably worth 3 times more than yours 😂 please... even if I didn't backed the game, my argument would still be valid, that's just stupid
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  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    Noaani wrote: »
    Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

    The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

    Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

    simple.

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  • maouwmaouw Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

    The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

    Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

    simple.

    So you're saying that you want to create a character before you've paid for a sub? purchase a sub before launch and create a character?
    I wish I were deep and tragic
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Liniker wrote: »
    I meant to say the pre-order pack, just wanted to leave my feedback on this matter. If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad. that's not a peark, that's giving advantage to people with pre-order packs that will be able to start earlier not having to worry about creating their characters. It doesn't matter that it's 1 hour advantage, or 2 hours, or 2 weeks, an advantage is an advantage.

    It's bad?

    No it isn't.

    This is just silly.

    Do you go into a fast food place and help yourself to napkins and ketchup? Its not fair that only people who buy food get to enjoy ketchup with their french fries, right?


    Many games give a pre-order perk or bonus for, especially will you find perks/bonuses for early crowdfunding.
    It is a 'thank you' for putting something on the line way before you see anything tangible. You place some trust and hope in the Devs and their vision for the game, before there is a game!

    Besides, this is not a racing game. Its an MMO based on community/collective collaboration. And if you play it as a race to the end, what do you care what your character looks like? You aren't playing the game to be a member, or to enjoy the nuances of the art or story.
  • pyrealpyreal Member, Warrior of Old
    Liniker wrote: »
    Noaani wrote: »
    Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

    The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

    Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

    simple.

    "Only releasing character creator for backers who paid $500 - $375 - $250 and so on"

    Are you a politician? Because you frame things like those habitual truth-spinners.

    You only list high dollar amounts, but hide the lowest pre-order pack ($75) within a dismissive 'and so on'.


    The base pre-order is a $75, and it includes:
    • Access to future Beta Two test phase
    • 2 months of game time ($30 Value)
    • $25 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits, NO P2W!)
    • Diadem of the Majestic (Accessory Cosmetic Skin)


    I think you are deceptively suggesting that pre-order packs fall within this '$250 - $500' range.

    An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.

    You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.
  • Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?

    I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible
  • LinikerLiniker Member, Alpha One, Adventurer
    edited February 2021
    pyreal wrote: »

    An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.

    You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.
    @pyreal are you OK? I literally said 500$ to 250$ packs "AND SO ON..." using the higher packs only as examples. Plus I'm pretty sure any new comer can google "Ashes of Creation shop" the same as they found this forum. Just because ur an idiot doesn't mean everyone else is.

    Kionashi wrote: »
    Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?

    I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible
    Yes 100%. Hopefully they will stay away from this sort of thing with proper feedback.
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