Pay-wall on the CC in advance

So Intrepid is considering releasing the character creator in advance only for people that pre-order the game... This gives a couple of hours headstart for people not having to worry about creating their characters at launch. I have a pre-order pack, this doesn't affect me, still I think this is messed up. Big step in the wrong direction. What happened to the "We don't need your money" ?

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Merek

I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance. But it doesn't grant you any real advantage, as I said, some players don't care about character creation at all and will spam the 'next' button, to get in-game as quickly as possible. And having backers get access to the character creator so they can tell Intrepid if it's bad prior to release is a good thing. You're making a mountain out of a molehill, stop it.

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

maybe make people need to buy a subscription before they get access? why do we need to pay for an expensive pre-order pack? duh

If you have paid for a subscription before the servers are released, you have pre-ordered.

If you have not paid for a subscription at the point the servers are sent live, you have not pre-ordered.

If you have not paid for a subscription when the servers are sent live, there is no point in you having access to the character creator, as you have no access to teh game.

If you have launch day access to the game before launch day, then you have access to the character creator before launch day.

They did not say it was only for people that have purchased the pre-order packs that we have now, there is absolutely no reason to assume they won't open up the ability to purchase subscription time several days before the game is released.

I don't see what the issue is.

If someone is that concerned about a few minutes worth of time in game, they won't be waiting until launch day to gain access. Since they would have sorted out at least their first months access before launch day, they would also have access to the character creator before launch day.

This means the only people that won't have access to the character creator before launch day are people that don't care enough about launch day to have access to the game sorted before then.

Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

Atama

Liniker wrote: »

Again, I never said it is Pay to Win. There's no argument being made about it being pay to win.

Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.

Liniker

Atama wrote: »

Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.

Reeee

Merek wrote: »

I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance.

@Merek bro.. my ashes inventory is probably worth 3 times more than yours 😂 please... even if I didn't backed the game, my argument would still be valid, that's just stupid

Liniker

Noaani wrote: »

Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

simple.

maouw

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

simple.

So you're saying that you want to create a character before you've paid for a sub? purchase a sub before launch and create a character?

Gizban

Liniker wrote: »

I meant to say the pre-order pack, just wanted to leave my feedback on this matter. If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad. that's not a peark, that's giving advantage to people with pre-order packs that will be able to start earlier not having to worry about creating their characters. It doesn't matter that it's 1 hour advantage, or 2 hours, or 2 weeks, an advantage is an advantage.

It's bad?

No it isn't.

This is just silly.

Do you go into a fast food place and help yourself to napkins and ketchup? Its not fair that only people who buy food get to enjoy ketchup with their french fries, right?

Many games give a pre-order perk or bonus for, especially will you find perks/bonuses for early crowdfunding.
It is a 'thank you' for putting something on the line way before you see anything tangible. You place some trust and hope in the Devs and their vision for the game, before there is a game!

Besides, this is not a racing game. Its an MMO based on community/collective collaboration. And if you play it as a race to the end, what do you care what your character looks like? You aren't playing the game to be a member, or to enjoy the nuances of the art or story.

Gizban

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

simple.

"Only releasing character creator for backers who paid $500 - $375 - $250 and so on"

Are you a politician? Because you frame things like those habitual truth-spinners.

You only list high dollar amounts, but hide the lowest pre-order pack ($75) within a dismissive 'and so on'.

The base pre-order is a $75, and it includes:

Access to future Beta Two test phase
2 months of game time ($30 Value)
$25 in Embers (in-game marketplace credits, NO P2W!)
Diadem of the Majestic (Accessory Cosmetic Skin)

I think you are deceptively suggesting that pre-order packs fall within this '$250 - $500' range.

An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.

You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.

Kionashi

Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?

I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible

Liniker

pyreal wrote: »

An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.

You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.

@pyreal are you OK? I literally said 500$ to 250$ packs "AND SO ON..." using the higher packs only as examples. Plus I'm pretty sure any new comer can google "Ashes of Creation shop" the same as they found this forum. Just because ur an idiot doesn't mean everyone else is.

Kionashi wrote: »

Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?

I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible

Yes 100%. Hopefully they will stay away from this sort of thing with proper feedback.

Taleof2Cities

I sincerely have never been on the fence about an Ashes issue until this thread.

Even though @Liniker's method of delivery is abrasive, they're right. Early access for character creation is pay-for-convenience.

On the other hand, if you measure two (2) hours against the length of the first subscription (720 hours) ... or two (2) hours against the lifetime of the game, we're really not talking about a substantial advantage for backers. It's peanuts and clearly not pay-to-win.

Bottom Line: If Steven was to decide to go ahead with this kind of early access, it would not destroy his years-long philosophies of avoiding pay-to-win or pay-for-convenience (in my opinion).

The OP wants to draw the line. Which is fine. That's their opinion.

Atama

Is it okay to point out again that what the OP is whining about isn’t even happening?

Noaani

Liniker wrote: »

Noaani wrote: »

Not only do I not see a problem here, but I also don't see any other way Intrepid could do this other than simply not releasing the character creator early, which makes no sense.

The problem: Only releasing the character creator for backers that paid 500$ - 375$ - 250$ and so on. Because: It's unfair with non-backers, it's another way to make people feel like they need to get a pre-order pack.

Solution: Releasing the character creator for Everyone that pays 15$ for their subscription prior to launch (that sub will start counting at day 01). Everyone is happy, It doesn't cost them anything.

simple.

Most games dont offer a basic subscription until the game is live.

However, if they do, the people that get that subscription would then have pre-ordered the game and thus would be eligible for access to the character creator based on what we know.

This is as I explained in my previous post, and why I dont see the problem.

Literally anyone that has launch day access before launch day will have access to the character creator. There is no point offering access to anyone without launch day access before launch day.

Gizban

Kionashi wrote: »

Can we all agree that even if is not pay to win, it still is pay for convenience? and that Steven said they don't want any pay for convenience in their game?

I don't care if somebody gets two hours advantage over me....I just wanna fiddle with the character creator as soon as possible

No, we can't agree on this point but I don't feel it applies. You are not paying for THIS 'convenience' (as you claim it is). It is INCLUDED with a pre-order pack.

Also, source on Steven saying this please.

You are admitting the issue is not that you think its 'unfair', but simply that you Want. If you want it, pre-order a pack. Easy?

sarkado

Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.

Gizban

Liniker wrote: »

pyreal wrote: »

An interested new comer may pop in here and see your deceptive statement and be turned off by such a high 'pay wall' to even get a pre-order pack.

You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.

@pyreal Do you have brain damage or some other issues? I literally said 500$ to 250$ packs "AND SO ON..." using the higher packs only as examples. Plus I'm pretty sure any new comer can google "Ashes of Creation shop" the same as they found this forum. Just because ur an idiot doesn't mean everyone else is.

And why did you list only higher cost tiers, and why in a descending order? I don't believe I have EVER SEEN pricing presented in a descending value. Very odd.
It was deceptive 'framing' to give weight to your argument. Straight up politician talk.

Lets disregard your sketchy wording and focus on something else.

You say: "If they only give access to the character creator to people with pre-order packs.... that's bad."
You say its an 'advantage'.

Please explain how it is an advantage.

Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!

What about the people who can play longer than I can? Don't you think that's unfair?
Don't you think server uptime should be limited to my play windows, that way no one can have an advantage over me?
Oh, thats my personal choice you say? Oh, that's a personal circumstance you say?
So is buying a pre-order.

Isn't the 'advantage' of being in alpha tests and beta tests even more horrifying?! These people will be able to learn skill rotations, learn class weaknesses, farming spots, maybe even material spawning timers and locations! If everyone can't be in Alpha and Beta, these people need to be banned before launch!

PARTICIPATION TROPHIES FOR EVERYONE!

Gizban

sarkado wrote: »

Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.

/sarcasm

*GASP*

I'm sorry not-sorry, we're going to have to petition for your account to be banned.

If we can't all have 2 rolls of toilet paper and a factory job at the Collective Labor Shoe Factory, none shall!

I don't know how you live with yourself.

maouw

sarkado wrote: »

Let's all remember that many of us who pre-order certain packs get a 1-2 day head start, so you've already lost me because I've already made 2 days worth of farming ahead of your 1 hour lost to creating a character.

I think this really helps to put this issue into context.
Certain Kickstarter backers will have access to the fully integrated Character Creator days before the rest of us. So it's consistent with what they've done already, whichever way they choose to go ahead.

I'd prefer character creator for everyone, coz I'll spend hours trying different looks, and then tweaking my favourite. hahaha

Merek

Liniker wrote: »

Atama wrote: »

Your thread title is literally saying the opposite. If you didn’t mean to say that early character creator is P2W then you should have worded it very differently. Your thread was a failure before you even wrote the OP.

Reeee

Merek wrote: »

I understand you're peeved because you haven't backed the game therefore you wont get earlier access to fiddle around with your characters appearance.

@Merek bro.. my ashes inventory is probably worth 3 times more than yours 😂 please... even if I didn't backed the game, my argument would still be valid, that's just stupid

Damn, bro, clearly didn't spend enough or you wouldn't be whining about not having access. :'( :'( :'(

Gotta say though, you're building a really solid, good reputation for your guild with these posts. Keep it up.

Liniker

pyreal wrote: »

You are doing a disservice to this endeavor with your deceptions.

@pyreal you wrote that because I didn't list ALL the packages and said "and so on..." at the end..... and I am the one using sketchy wording.... it is clearly just an example, everyone here knows pre-order packs start at 75$, your "new comer" argument doesn't belong in this discussion, and even if packages where 30$ that's not even the point, the point is that they Are more expensive than the entry-level of 15$ from the sub. Moving on...

pyreal wrote: »

Is it because it gives someone an unspecific, unspecified, subjective head start from 3 minutes to 3 hours in a game that that will take approximately 225 HOURS to reach max level, which in itself is not 'beating the game'?
So the heinous '1 hour advantage' equates to a 1 in 225 PAY TO WIN!

Again, your argument is wrong, dangerous for the game and Needs to be ignored. It DOESN'T matter if its 3 minutes, 3 hours or 600 hours advantage. you asked me HOW is that an advantage, and you answered it. It SAVES TIME; That's the advantage.

I literally saw your same argument being used to defend MULTIPLE p2w games saying "oohhh but this item only gives a 5% boost- ohh but this will only help you a tiny bit" I disagree with you 100% I couldn't care less if it's 1 minute or 1000 hours or if some cash shop item gives me 0,1% XP boost or 1000% XP boost, a Convenience is a convenience, an advantage is an advantage, and P2W is P2W (obviously not saying ashes is p2w if they implement that but still, it's unfair)

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