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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
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Alpha Two Phase II testing is currently taking place 5+ days each week. More information about testing schedule can be found here
If you have Alpha Two, you can download the game launcher here, and we encourage you to join us on our Official Discord Server for the most up to date testing news.
Comments
You can only remove dying as a way to remove corruption if you can ACTUALLY go out and do it. I keep saying this, what if you can't actually go out and rid of your corruption? And I don't mean "oops the devs forgot to implement that!" I mean "well shit I literally cannot go anywhere and realistically work off my corruption because I get attacked every 5 seconds"
You can skip all of this by dying on purpose. How is this a non-issue for you?? You can literally avoid ALL meaningful consequences through that. Ergo, everyone who goes corrupted can do this heaps and grief shitloads of people and there's nothing anyone can do about it. No punishment for corruptions. The exact thing you apparently don't want.
In order for this to be a valid situation to get yourself in to, there needs to be somwhere you can go that is safe.
This game doesn't really have a whole lot of that, so this scenario is completely unrealistic. If you would be attacked any time you try and go somewhere, you would be killed where you are standing anyway..
I'm really confused. What are you referring to when you say "there needs to be somewhere you can go that is safe." For what? I really don't understand.
If you would be killed where you are standing anyway then it still allows people to easily exploit the corruption system by going out, griefing a bunch of people and dying on purpose. Again, how is this not an issue?
First so what you choose to play that way suck it up.
Second The community will be small and you will get a bad rap over time. People will know who you are and not do stuff with you OR PK you every chance they get. There is no server hoping no cross server crap here people will figure out who these players are and they will have dire effects on their play style long term.
Imagine your "player" works off his corruption through your "exploit". He heads out with friends to go do a dungeon and gets jumped every time he tries to leave town for being a giant Dbag. Not one time but every time till they have to log off and it would not be the same player killing them every time.
I'll paste it again.
Being killed on sight is a consequence, being attacked by NPCs is a consequence, being unable to do certain things in the world is a consequence. You don't experience any of these if you can just cop out and rid of your corruption by dying on purpose. If dying on purpose is not an option, then those things hold real weight.
First so what you choose to play that way suck it up.
Second The community will be small and you will get a bad rap over time. People will know who you are and not do stuff with you OR PK you every chance they get. There is no server hoping no cross server crap here people will figure out who these players are and they will have dire effects on their play style long term.
Imagine your "player" works off his corruption through your "exploit". He heads out with friends to go do a dungeon and gets jumped every time he tries to leave town for being a giant Dbag. Not one time but every time till they have to log off and it would not be the same player killing them every time.[/quote]
Let me continue the logic of my last post. You get attacked every five seconds, and you can't die on purpose to rid of your corruption. What's left? You guessed it. Quitting the game.
I'm sure we want a system that leads people to quitting the game way too easily. At that point you may as well not have the corruption system. But of course I'm really not in favour of that.
Who cares if you get a bad rep? My goal as an asshole is to grief players like mad. I can exploit dying on purpose to achieve this. I really couldn't care less if I got KOS out in the world. I only play the game to grief people anyway.
How do you solve that? And this feels stupid but since you keep misunderstanding everything I say, no I don't literally want to grief all day. That is a hypothetical, I am pretending to be in the mind of someone who's an asshole griefer.
What would really happen is that those people that would attack you every 5 seconds if you went out would just attack you before you went out, because there isn't a safe place for you to go.
Basically, since you clearly don't understand, what I am saying is that this scenario you are talking about is implausable in Ashes.
How is this an issue?
The penalties of corruption are things that happen to you when you are killed. Working off corruption via gaining experience is the work around to avoid the penalties, not getting killed.
Well at this point you remove it as a proper way of getting rid of corruption, or you make it punishing in a way that means you can't just go and use it to escape consequences. I don't know how this would work exactly.
But then you'd struggle ridding of corruption in other ways. Implement my solution for being able to defend yourself if a green attacks you as a corrupted, and you've practically solved it.
Purposeful death while corrupt would be the actions of a desperate person in Ashes.
No, I very much disagree. The penalties of corruption are an additional deterrent, not the main deterrent. The main one are these: being killed on sight is a consequence, being attacked by NPCs is a consequence, being unable to do certain things in the world is a consequence. You don't experience any of these if you can just cop out and rid of your corruption by dying on purpose. If dying on purpose is not an option, then those things hold real weight.
If I'm a griefer and I premeditate my corruption ganking, I put on shitty armour that I don't care about, I don't take anything super valuable, and I don't particularly care about xp gain. I go out and kill a bunch of people. "Time to die on purpose!" My armour gets dropped or breaks, but of course I don't care about it, I don't drop valuables cause I never had any, and my xp drops. But I don't really care about that either because I'm not being delevelled. It makes it a bit more challenging but ultimately I can keep doing this.
If I can't just die on purpose, then I actually HAVE to grind mobs to rid of corruption. Holy shit, how obnoxious, it's not worth griefing anymore.
But if grinding mobs is very hard because you can't defend yourself, then you'd just quit the game because there's no effective way to get rid of corruption.
Under the scenario he laid out, it wouldn't be too uncommon. Especially for those that just go corrupted once in a while.
If their chance of survival is barely existant due the greens being able to attack you freely knowing that you can't fight back without incurring more corruption, then killing yourself through a friend and skipping part of the corruption procedure altogether is the most advantagous option.
There is primarily 2 gripes i have with it:
- every green having the ability to attack reds ( which try to get rid of corruption) free of consequences takes away from the Bounty hunter aspect of the game.
- ir primarily hurts the occassional corrupted instead of the cronic one.
Murder hobos won't care as they'd be attacking the greens anyway. Organized Guilds will find a way around it through mutual support
Let me continue the logic of my last post. You get attacked every five seconds, and you can't die on purpose to rid of your corruption. What's left? You guessed it. Quitting the game.
I'm sure we want a system that leads people to quitting the game way too easily. At that point you may as well not have the corruption system. But of course I'm really not in favour of that.
Who cares if you get a bad rep? My goal as an asshole is to grief players like mad. I can exploit dying on purpose to achieve this. I really couldn't care less if I got KOS out in the world. I only play the game to grief people anyway.
How do you solve that? And this feels stupid but since you keep misunderstanding everything I say, no I don't literally want to grief all day. That is a hypothetical, I am pretending to be in the mind of someone who's an asshole griefer.[/quote]
Fair enough on "Asking for a friend"
Nobody and I do mean NOBODY wants these people here anyway. So if they are jerks and can't work off corruption and leave. No one cares.
Adults call that a self solving problem.
Sounds like your concerned these jerks won't stick around. Why does that upset you?
Either grinding to get rid of corruption, or grinding to get rid of negative experience, and the fairly substantial debuff that comes with experience debt.
there are multiple ways to get rid of your corruption without having to die.
religion, military node, PvE etc
but Jahlon made a good point in his video..
" you chose to commit that murder " consequences of your actions
not really compareable as you could be killed on very low corruption, which would cause you to get the full 4-time deah penalty.
If the risk of dying is too substantial, you might as well let a friend kill you right away, as it doesn't matter whether you die with lowered corruption or corruption of a full kill
What do you mean "asking for a friend" ?
To an extent I agree with you, I don't particularly like those people. But sometimes it's not necessarily bad people, just people who are bored and see an exploit in the system and run with it. Those same people might be relatively civil otherwise, but given the anonymous platform and the opportunity to be an ass, they take it.
Regardless, people should NOT be able to do that full stop. So if it's an exploit that exists, quash it before it gets out of hand.
But if grinding mobs is very hard because you can't defend yourself, then you'd just quit the game because there's no effective way to get rid of corruption. [/quote]
Again these players leaving is a good thing.
its quite amusing that you bring up jahlon, as he isn't a fan either that greens can freely attack corrupted
For sure there will be an optimal way of dealing with the penalty, obviously.
I am just pointing out that in literally all cases, the penalty for dealing with corruption results in grinding mobs - either as a means of working off the corruption directly, or working off the expereince debt gained from being killed while corrupt.
Again these players leaving is a good thing.
[/quote]
your occassional corrupted leaving isn't a good thing.
Your constant murder hobos leaving is a good thing.
Just that the constant murder hobos aren't affected by this discussion at all, as they'd be killing the greens either way
Additionally, corrupted players accumulate death penalties at 4 times the rate of non-corrupted. This could be a significant deterrent to dying while corrupted, since the penalties of skill and stat dampening, lower health and mana, lower gear proficiency, and reduced drop rates from monsters are all inflicted on corrupted players who then die and respawn with 4x increased death penalty that inflicts all of those same penalties.
https://youtube.com/watch?v=LUJugtqTBxw&t=817s
(Steven explains negative experience at 13:50)
https://ashesofcreation.wiki/Player_death
Also, while I agree with the intent of your original post Ashes is going to be a large game and I think corrupted players will be able to find somewhere to farm even if it is not nearby or where they would like. Having to work in some situations to reach a grind spot to remove corruption seems fine to me.
To an extent I agree with you, I don't particularly like those people. But sometimes it's not necessarily bad people, just people who are bored and see an exploit in the system and run with it. Those same people might be relatively civil otherwise, but given the anonymous platform and the opportunity to be an ass, they take it.
Regardless, people should NOT be able to do that full stop. So if it's an exploit that exists, quash it before it gets out of hand.[/quote]
I am going to disagree trolls will be trolls.
If you look back when most MMO's were single server and your personal rep mattered people were more civil. Still had trolls and gankers. These people will always be around. The player you described could exist for sure. But their life will be hell and should be until they either stop being a giant ass or leave.
A far as the "exploit" the death penalty here will not be like in most other games. Dying will hurt with stat loss and other effects. I think if it get out of hand the way you think it will they need to up the penalty for these players and make it much harder to work off the death penalty.
How substantial is the XP debt though? If it's SO substantial that death is THAT punishing, then you would never use dying on purpose. But if you literally couldn't grind mobs, then it'd be as if you couldn't die to get rid of corruption anyway, cause it'd be so punishing that it'd be not worth dying at all as a corrupted. But then literally no one would even dare touch corruption, even in those moments where you are technically given the choice to murder wouldn't even be meaningful choices because you'd realistically never do one over the other. Anyone who did become corrupted would just quit cause it'd be broken. You may as well not have the corruption system at that point.
Again these players leaving is a good thing.
[/quote]
Yeah but you're not just affecting the fringes, you're affecting anyone who even dips their toes into corruption... I might even do it once in a while. Am I on the same level as those griefers?
while i agree with thar on a conceptual basis, i do think that's a false equivalency, as the grinding with negative exp is far different/nicer experience than grinding while corrupted. + Grinding in negative exp is always a benefit, while grinding while corrupted only helps if you manage to lower your corruption either completely, or the point that requires you to tie one time less if you were on higher corruption
lol I do literally say "I'm not being delevelled" in my post but all good, you mustn't have seen that.
If you're confident that mob spots will be available for corrupted players then that is a good thing, but even then I am still concerned that the mere fact that reds can't fight back means that realistically every green (even PvErs) would and should attack them, at any point in the world because the red isn't going to fight back almost all of the time. So even if there are mob spots that are available, the same issue still occurs out in the world, and that would likely make it difficult for the red to reach those mob spots. If working off corruption takes a long time also, the chances are that people will end up at the mob spot and attack them anyway.
When someone contorts a theoretical situation in to something that is not going to happen, where they have no means of exiting that situation other than dying, then obviously dying is the best thing they can do, as they got themself in to a position where it is all that is left.
For everyone else - for people that show evidence of at least double digit IQ while playing the game - these situations simply won't come up, and so it is likely that there will not be that many people dying on purpose to clear corruption.